Replace head bolts?

[DarrenX33]

I am getting close to bolting it back together. Is is necessary to replace all the head bolts or can they be reused?

[Chevy454]

Don't cheap out now, Darren, opt for the new head bolts, or you're likely to regret it...trust me, I learned the hard way recently...and DO NOT BUY MANLEY head bolts! ARP from now on...

[Belair62]

What if he wants a bone stock factory correct replacement with correct markings ???

[DarrenX33]

I am going to be asking a ton of questions cause I want this done correctly. I assisted with a complete engine rebuild years ago. So it's not that fresh in my mind.

Counting on the experience of everyone here cause the last thing I want to do is screw up my numbers matching motor.

[Salvatore]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't cheap out now, Darren, opt for the new head bolts, or you're likely to regret it...trust me, I learned the hard way recently...and DO NOT BUY MANLEY head bolts! ARP from now on...

[/ QUOTE ]Always replace head bolts! You are not re-using your head gaskets are you??? You are a D@&e! cheese steak man. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[DarrenX33]

What a rough crowd.

[ QUOTE ]
What if he wants a bone stock factory correct replacement with correct markings ???

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this question. Any answers?

[Salvatore]

If you can't find bone stock head bolts use the best you can. Your car I don't believe is BONE stock anyway. None of them are out there. And further more http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BelairSucks.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[DarrenX33]

What the hell same/ Did you sit on a bees nest today? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seattle Sam!! Chime in here. You've got your motor apart to.

[Salvatore]

Ya, We lost the Super Bowl!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Don't bring the West Coast Sammy into this...He is my buddy! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
What if he wants a bone stock factory correct replacement with correct markings ???

[/ QUOTE ]
I honestly can't say if they make "new" old style head bolts or not, but I'd be VERY leary using old bolts...I recently had 2 head bolts, less than 2 years old, snap on the L72 in our Camaro (Manley brand)...1 broke from just normal(!) driving, the other broke after I installed the head repairing the first boo-boo...both times required an easy-out, and major "hiney" puckering. You never know where a used bolt has been, or how many times it's been torqued/stretched...besides, if you decide to use an aftermarket bolt, once you spray it orange, how many people will notice? I'd rather know my heads are tight and are gonna stay that way than have a used, yet correct, looking bolt...but hey, that's just me! LOL!!

[Seattle Sam]

Hey Darren,
I believe you can re-use those bolts if you want to. Just clean em up good with a wire wheel, and run a thread chaser (or a tap)into the threaded holes in the block to make sure they are clean. Don't forget to put RTV on the threads to keep coolant out of your oil!

If you want to look original from the outside but have that warm secure feeling that comes from using the best, buy the ARP fasteners and use them in all the locations under the valve cover, then re-use the originals for the row of bolts outside the valve cover.

You could try contacting Rick's first gen or maybe SCW to see if they have a source for new bolts with the correct markings..

[Verne_Frantz]

Paragon...............the "Vette" people.
I don't have their catalog in front of me, but I believe they have new bolts with the right markings for most applications.
(I don't get a cut........just trying to help)

Verne

[Seattle Sam]

There ya go, the best of both worlds..make sure they are grade eight!
http://www.corvette-paragon.com/
Darren, if you are going to drive your car the way Rob drives his, I would DEFINITELY recommend new ARP fasteners!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif
-Sam

[Belair62]

Figures a Vette house would have them....

[Mr70]

They don't.
I have there current Catalog in Front of me.
EBay D.

[DarrenX33]

$400? No way!

[SuperNovaSS]

Is this it?

http://www.corvette-paragon.com/catalog/Product.aspx?id=75F9EDE9-32BB-4B1C-93CA-145D6E688EB5

[SuperNovaSS]

Oh,that's big block. Ooops

[JoeG]

Really should go new----If your leaning more towards appearance rather than reliability---Check your thread landings for any signs of streching--even under the bolt head for galling----

[Pantera]

If you really want to use original head bolts then I recomend that you get a set of head bolt washers used for racing. Then scrounge the salvage yards for a old V8 SB or BB motor that is out of a original low mileage 4 door car and get the entire set. If you inspect them close you can tell if they look like they have been used before by the flat sides of the heads of the bolts. The are metal and will not wear out without help or over tightening.

Clean Clean Clean. both the block holes and the used head bolts. Be sure to use a thread sealant and start to tighten them using a good tork wrench and start at 20 lbs under final value and keep working in a circle starting at the center head bolts and work out increasing it by 10 lbs at least two times. If any bolts don't feel the same as the others stop. Pitch it and start that side completely over.

You can reuse GM head bolts many times if you don't over tork them past their recomended value for your motor. The most important thing is to use good head gaskets. If you insist on using OEM GM steel ones I had good luck and never blew one when I put them on I would hang them on a hook and spray them with silver krylon and slap them on the block while they were still wet. The last and most important thing is to re-tork them one last time while the motor is hot after you get it running.

I have done this too many times over the years and never had a problem. Be sure to use a quality 6 point socket from a tool truck and not just any orential junk. If it don't have a known name brand on the tools you use, you may be sorry.

Pantera

[fpcopo]

Come on BG you big sausage, don't you know nuthin? Paragon Corvette supply has accurate SB and BB head and main bolts. Great quality. I think Chevy still has them but they are not exactly like the old ones. Also if you feel you have to use washers, use thread sealer or they will leak sure as hell. Frank http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BelairSucks.gif

[fpcopo]

Oh man whatever you do, don't use a regular tap to chase the threads in the block. You take out too much material and pull the threads out of the block! Heli coil time. Use a thread chasing tap or if you don't have that a nylon bristle brush and solvent usually works fine. Frank

[bkhpah]

Paragon sells accurate head bolts for BB's. Not sure about SB's. The Bb set sells for about 62.00...BKH

[DarrenX33]

Thanks for all the advice guys. It's very much appreciated http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Frank usually puts a dab of salami drippings on the threads to help seal them... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Bob,
I've found a lot of "right stuff" for my big cars from Vette suppliers. You'd be surprised how much engine stuff and hardware is the same. But the Vette guys don't even know it, or they'd have the other applications listed (more sales). In fact, I don't think they "want" to know it. Can you say.........tunnel vision?

Verne

[Belair62]

Pretty sure the Vette smog stuff is correct for a California 409 !!

[Mr70]

"There's two auctions on here that may possibly be era correct for you."
EBAY SB HEAD BOLTS (http://search.ebay.com/head-bolts-chevrolet_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfclZ3QQcatref ZC5QQfrppZ50QQfromZR10QQcatrefZC6QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1Q QsadisZ200QQfposZ60514QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1)

http://www.thecapras.org/mcapra/muppets/images/ernie.jpg

[Verne_Frantz]

Yep, Calif '62 and 50 state '63 & '64. It was only a PCV system, then CCV in Calif. '64. (CV-590C valve).

Verne

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.thecapras.org/mcapra/muppets/images/ernie.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Ernie sez: "Buy new ARP head bolts Bert!"

[DarrenX33]

Thinkin I should start a poll. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DarrenX33]

I am leaning toward Paragon for the head bolts. I am bolting the motor back together with the intention to do mostly cruising and occasional run down the track. From what I am hearing I think they will work fine.

As long as I am at it I am considering using Paragon for purchasing fasteners for the following. Oil pan, timing chain cover, water pump and etc? Not sure if all the bolt markings translate to Camaro. If I'm gonna buy them I'd like to get it right.

[Verne_Frantz]

Darren,
I'm not sure if it shows up in their catalog, but Paragon has a paper chart (maybe 18x24) that shows all their bolt head markings and sizes available. I have one in my shop. It's a very quick reference if you need to match up an original one from the car. Saves messing with the catalog. I'm sure you can get one if you request it.

Verne

[DarrenX33]

Called Paragon. Apparently the SB head bolts are a generic replacement that spans 1954 to 1982. You need to order 2 sets at $45 a piece. No indication of what markings they have on them. Oh well.

[Verne_Frantz]

Bummer! I hope you didn't tell them you owned a Camaro. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Darren, if you can tell me what your original head markings are, (better yet, post a pic) and the bolt sizes you need, I'll check that chart I have tonight. If they have them, I can give you the part numbers tomorrow.

Verne.

[DarrenX33]

I'll do that but I am not even sure that I have the original bolts to begin with. Seems like most of the fasteners are wrong. The ones for the oil pan seem to be from the hardware store. You can see where some of them were cut cause they were too long. That's why I was option to go with Paragon for all the fasteners and pitch the Home Depot ones.

I'll take some pics tonight. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Darren, then let's ask if someone else could post a pic of a known original '69 head bolt (let's make sure we know if we're comparing Flint or Tonawanda?), along with the sizes. It's not like I don't have a ton of small block head bolts lying around, but they're all from pre-65. I don't know if the Z's heads use different sizes.
If I can get that info by 5:30 est, I'll have an answer for you one way or 'nother tomorrow.
Verne

[DarrenX33]

Mr T is pretty sure he has originals.

If anyone else who has them could post a few pics I'd appreciate it.

Thanks! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Where the heck is Scardino? Usually by now he is throwing cheesesteak remarks at me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[drdave69]

Darren, Rick's also sells an entire bolt kit without head bolts and they have the generic replacement head bolts. Hope this may help.

[Bill Pritchard]

As I remember it, the original head bolts have a circle with a triangle inside for head markings http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DarrenX33]

"M" in the middle. I'm guessing these are originals. Or Marlin has been horsing around with my motor. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v370/darren_costello/136-3660_IMG.jpg

[Mr70]

Paragon shows "M" bolts in their charts,##1799-1688-#4759-#626,but none that come close to resembling what you show.The declare them as Bumper bolts too.

Unless it's a "W"..still not in their charts.

[DarrenX33]

Doesn't look like a "W" to me Mickey.

http://www.scrabo.com/mad34.jpg

I already have a set of the "M" bumper bolts. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

It sounds like noone would ever know if they are original or not anyway by the soundof this discussion

[DarrenX33]

I agree. Guess we can put this thread to rest. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Mr. T]

Darren, just went out to the shop to check out the head bolts on my 69 Z. They have ARP bolts. I couldn't remember what was stamped on the head bolts, since I last turned wrenches in the engine compartment a couple of months ago.

[DarrenX33]

Thanks for looking T!

[Verne_Frantz]

Well Darren,
I went out in the shop and got greasy last night. (sorry, no digital pictures). My original 7/16-14 SB head bolts are as follows:
Long: 14 per engine, 3 11/16", One raised circle 13/32" dia with 1 recessed circle 7/32" dia, with a "C" in the center
Med: 4 per engine: 2 7/8", same raised circle, no center recess, rasied "CP" in center
Short: 16 per engine: 1 3/4", same raised circle, no center recess, raised "U" in center. Also found more shortys with the same head as the Med. bolts.

After all that, Paragon's chart didn't even come close to any of them, markings OR lengths.
Sorry.

Verne

[DarrenX33]

Verne I appreciate you looking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif