Subject: Military Paid too much?

[Pantera]

I find this interesting reading. =

Subject: Military Pay

This is an Airman's response to Cindy Williams' editorial piece in the Washington Times about MILITARY PAY, it should be printed in all newspapers across America.



On Nov. 12, Ms Cindy Williams (from Laverne and Shirley TV show) wrote a piece for the Washington Times, denouncing the pay raise(s) coming service members' way this year -- citing that the stated 13% wage was more than they deserve.



A young airman from Hill AFB responds to her article below. He ought to get a bonus for this.



"Ms Williams:

I just had the pleasure of reading your column, "Our GIs earn enough" and I am a bit confused. Frankly, I'm wondering where this vaunted overpayment is going, because as far as I can tell, it disappears every month between DFAS (The Defense Finance and Accounting Service)and my bank account.

Checking my latest earnings statement I see that I make $1,117.80 before taxes. After taxes, I take home $874.20. When I run that through the calculator, I come up with an annual salary of $13,413.60 before taxes, and $10,490.40, after.

I work in the Air Force Network Control Center where I am part of the team responsible for a 5,000 host computer network. I am involved with infrastructure segments, specifically with Cisco Systems equipment. A quick check under jobs for Network Technicians in the Washington, D.C. area reveals a position in my career field, requiring three years
experience with my job. Amazingly, this job does NOT pay $13,413.60 a year. No, this job is being offered at $70,000 to $80,000 per annum...I'm sure you can draw the obvious conclusions.

Given the tenor of your column, I would assume that you NEVER had the pleasure of serving your country in her armed forces Before you take it upon yourself to once more castigate congressional and DOD leadership for attempting to get the families in the military's lowest pay brackets off of WIC and food stamps, I suggest that you join a group of deploying soldiers headed for AFGHANISTAN; I leave the choice of service branch up to you.

Whatever choice you make, though, opt for the SIX month rotation: it will guarantee you the longest possible time away from your family and friends, thus giving you full "deployment experience." As your group prepares to board the plane, make sure to note the spouses and children who are saying good-bye to their loved ones. Also take care to note that several
families are still unsure of how they'll be able to make ends meet while the primary
breadwinner is gone -- obviously they've been squandering the "vast" piles of cash the government has been giving them.

Try to deploy over a major holiday; Christmas and Thanksgiving are perennial favorites. And when you're actually over there, sitting in a foxhole, shivering against the cold desert night; and the flight sergeant tells you that there aren't enough people on shift to relieve you for
chow, remember this: trade whatever MRE (meal-ready-to-eat) you manage to get for
the tuna noodle casserole or cheese tortellini, and add Tabasco to everything. This gives some flavor. Talk to your loved ones as often as you are permitted; it won't nearly be long enough or often enough, but take what you can get and be thankful for it. You may have picked up on the fact that I disagree with most of the points you present in your opened
piece.

But, tomorrow from KABUL, I will defend to the death your right to say it.


You see, I am an American fighting man, a guarantor of your First Amendment rights and every other right you cherish. On a daily basis, my brother and sister soldiers worldwide ensure that you and people like you can thumb your collective nose at us, all on a salary that is nothing short of pitiful and under conditions that would make most people cringe. We
hemorrhage our best and brightest into the private sector because we can't offer the stability and pay of civilian companies.

And you, Ms. Williams, have the gall to say that we make more than we deserve? Rubbish!

A1C Michael Bragg Hill AFB AFNCC

------------------------------------------

Pantera

[Salvatore]

WOW, what a letter. I have a son in Mississippi rite now getting ready to go to Iraq. (25 yrs. old) We are NOT happy about this at all. He is in communications and technical data with computers. I applaud this Soldier for writing this! Sam

[Pantera]

I was dumbfounded that it was like that. I was 4F so missed out on the service. I wanted to go into the Navy like two of my uncle's.

Pass this along if you think it will do any good. I seldom read these kinds of letters but this one got to me.

Pantera

[Salvatore]

My draft number was 2. I was 4F also. Believe it or not flat feet. Thanks for the letter.

[427TJ]

The United States Government has a long and proud history of paying the military as little as possible. Republican or Democrat, it makes no difference. We pay them a pittance because we can. As a matter of fact, the Bush administration has been cutting pay and benefits for active duty (and activated Guard and Reserve) personnel and they've been cutting Veterans Administration benefits too.

Lots of flag waving when the TV cameras are rolling but behind the curtain the slashing continues.

Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld said: "You go to war with the army you have, not necessarily the army you want or would like to have." Well, he's in charge and he can certainly change it if he wanted to. Donald Rumsfeld is probably the most powerful Secretary of Defense we've had in decades and he can't blame Congress for inaction because both houses are controlled by his party.

Why is pay so low? Because that's the way it's always been.

Why do they keep cutting pay and benefits? Because they can.

[Racefan]

Was Active Duty Army for nearly 8 years (was caught up in the Clinton "10%" troop cuts). Please bear with me, because you probably will never see me stand up and disagree with someone here like this. But, here goes. President Bush HAS NEVER cut military pay, nor has any President I know of! This is the new mantra of a certain Party about the new budget. And it doesn't stop at just military pay, it goes into Medicare and everything. Even the AMTRAK subsidies, they ARE NOT getting money taken away!!! They may have been projected to get a 8% increase in budget and were actually allocated 4%. The Dems are calling this a 4% cut. If you make $1000/month now and your boss says you may get a 20% increase next year but you only got a 10% increase--- you did not have your pay cut!! There may not be the same level of increase this year as in past years.....but he is not "reducing" the pay of troops. I once actually got a pay reduction by getting an increase that put me in a higher tax bracket resulting in more taxes taken out and less take home pay.

The information about the dismal pay is absolutely correct. When I left the Army, generally speaking any married E-4 and below was eligible for food stamps. To be honest, while it would have been nice to have more money--that wasn't why I joined. I think the troops are worth more than they get, just remember these are extraordinary people who are not motivated by the same things as most others. The true tragedy is what these service members families get paid in the event of the service member's death-- especially when compared to that recieved by those it ground zero on 9/11. While the people in the towers families have recieved on average (going off memory now--so not accurate) 1.3 million-the families of those killed in Afghanistan within one month of 9/11 recieved the stipend that is less than 200k. And that is just a standard insurance policy THE SERVICE MEMBER PAYS FOR. THAT IS WHAT IS SAD!

I guess what got my dander up on this post is that people CANNOT take whay they hear/read at face value as it is often skewed to someone's point of view. Research these things, don't repeat propoganda put out by a political party or politician. Sorry guys, couldn't hold back.

Rant officially over. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[427TJ]

I was 9.5 years USAF active duty with 39 combat (not combat support) missions flown in Desert Storm.

Consider the following:

With 130,000 soldiers still in the heat of battle in Iraq and more fighting and dying in Afghanistan, the Bush administration sought in 2003 to cut $75 a month from the “imminent danger” pay added to soldiers’ paychecks when in battle zones. The administration sought to cut by $150 a month the family separation allowance offered to those same soldiers and others who serve overseas away from their families. Although they were termed “wasteful and unnecessary” by the White House, Congress blocked those cuts in 2003, largely because of Democratic votes.

Last year’s White House budget for Veterans Affairs cut $3 billion from VA hospitals—despite 9,000 casualties (killed + wounded) in Iraq and as aging Vietnam veterans demand more care. VA spending today averages $2,800 less per patient than nine years ago.

The administration also proposed levying a $250 annual charge on all Priority 8 veterans—those with “non-service-related illnesses”—who seek treatment at VA facilities, and seeks to close VA hospitals to Priority 8 veterans who earn more than $26,000 a year.

Until protests led to a policy change, the Bush administration also was charging injured GIs from Iraq $8 a day for food when they arrived for medical treatment at the Fort Stewart, Georgia, base where most injured are treated.

In mid-October 2003, the Pentagon, at the request of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, announced plans to shutter 19 commissaries—military-run stores that offer discounted food and merchandise that helps low-paid enlisted troops and their families get by—along with the possiblility of closing 19 more.

At the same time, the Pentagon also announced it was trying to determine whether to shutter 58 military-run schools for soldiers’ children at 14 military installations.

The White House is seeking to block a federal judge’s award of damages to a group of servicemen who sued the Iraqi government for torture during the 1991 Gulf War. The White House claims the money, to come from Iraqi assets confiscated by the United States, is needed for that country’s reconstruction.

The administration beat back a bipartisan attempt in Congress to add $1.3 billion for VA hospitals to Bush’s request of $87 billion for war and reconstruction in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In perhaps its most dangerous policy, the White House is refusing to provide more than 40,000 active-duty troops in Iraq with Kevlar body armor, leaving it up to them and their families to buy this life-saving equipment. This last bit of penny-pinching prompted Pentagon critic and Vietnam veteran Col. David Hackworth to point to “the cost of the extraordinary security” during Bush’s recent trip to Asia, which he noted grimly “would cover a vest for every soldier” in Iraq.

Yes, all things and all statements can be quibbled with and certain disagreements are forever. One man's lies and innuendo is another man's burning bush.

[Seattle Sam]

Amazing how many web sites have posted the EXACT stuff you post, Bill - for example,

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Dishonorable_discharge_112603.htm
http://www.dc37.net/news/PEP/2_2004/soldiers.html
http://www.joecitizen.org/bush_myths.html

Two democrat activist organizations, and one labor union.

plus dozens of message boards - all posting the same text, word for word and punctuation mark for punctuation mark.
What do you suppose is the source of it all? Why hasn't all of this been substantiated by any reputable news organization?

All half-truths or outright fictions, designed to help defeat Bush in the last election.

George Soros is behind it, I don't believe there is much if any truth to it all.

I for one agree that our military should be paid better than they are today, but let's be fair about what Bush really stands for:

http://www.factcheck.org/article144.html

I'm off the soapbox now and back to cars...
-Sam
-Sam

[Keith Tedford]

I feel that everyone, when they come out of school, should go into the armed forces for at least one tour of duty in a hot spot. Had all these people, especially politicians, done so, they would have a considerably different outlook. They might actually appreciate what they have instead of taking them for granted. Our son and son-in-law are in the Canadian forces and have been in Bosnia, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. Our family has them on a pretty high pedestal. I wonder how Cindy would handle cleaning up the mess after her buddies got blown up? The troops on the ground are not appreciated half enough and are definitely under paid.

[427TJ]

Thanks Sam, I stand corrected! I'm no bleeding-heart but I do get a little touchy over veteran's benefits and how our military is treated.

I should point out that while I was in the Air Force we lost many services such as the 24-hour emergency room on base. When my wife mis-carried (twice in two years) we had to go in to town (Del Rio, TX) and sit around with numerous illegal aliens at the public hospital, waiting our turn. Then, when my wife was finally seen by a doctor, it was an Air Force doctor from the base! He was moonlighting downtown for the extra money. Those cuts took place on Bill Clinton's watch and our commanders just shrugged and said that's the way it is.

The article you cited on fact-check.org says that while spending for veteran's benefits is down this year (while the number of aging vets signing up for benefits is up), it has increased steadily for over a decade. I guess it's like allowing a temporary tax cut bill to expire and calling that a tax increase. It's all in the interpretation. More (disabled) vets entering the list for needed benefits + reduced spending rate = benefit cuts? Maybe it's just less money available for vets. That's a nicer way to put it.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Racefan]

Sounds as if our thinking is much more inline than I initially thought. Here is the source of what I alluded to in the difference of compensation between different segments of our society:

Rush Limbaugh (not exactly a neutral source either--but the facts and number check out):

"The vast differences in compensation between victims of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving our country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either, because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11. Well, I can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the entitlement mentality of this country. If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and they and their families know the dangers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11 families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.

You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low-rent housing. Make sense?

However, our own U.S. Congress voted themselves a raise. Many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif And most are now equal to being millionaires plus. They do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.

If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a pension of $15,000 per month.

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting."

[Seattle Sam]

Bill,
I didn't intend any offense by my previous reply, and I hope we can remain on a friendly basis. After all, how many folks out there truly love the N96? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

One thing I neglected to say in my previous post -

THANK YOU for serving our country, for putting your life on the line so fat old guys like me can sit around a keyboard and debate freely! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
THANK YOU and all other veterans for defending our precious freedom. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

-Sam

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
After all, how many folks out there truly love the N96?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's funny! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

You didn't offend me at all Sam. I checked the sites you posted and got sucked in to fact-check.org until 11pm last night. I still think that a "reduction in the rate of growth" or a "rollback" sounds a lot like a "cut," it's just how people interpret what's being said.



N96's and black rear panels forever. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[ANDY M]

A wise old accountant told me once that there are three kinds of lies. White lies, Damn lies, and Statistics.
If you think the folks from Arthur Anderson were crooks, (remember Enron? they would sure like to forget it if they were still around), they learned at the feet of the GAO.
Nobody can cook the books like our own government.
If any private enterprise used government accounting practices, they would soon be out of business.
Having said that, just remember this:
1. People in this country can succeed if they work hard enough.
2. Nobody ever said that life was fair.
3. We all row our own boats.
4. We have an all volunteer army.
Just my .02 worth. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Andy

[whitetop]

The only problem I have with Mr. Braggs letter back to Cindy Williams is he left out some very pertinent facts about his low salary.

Yes he may take home "only" $13,000 per year BUT he has free housing, free utilities (except phone), no property tax, does not have to do any lawn maintenace like cutting grass if he lives on base housing, PX privledges etc etc. Plus he received free training in his occupation from his years in the military which he can then go onto the civilian side when he retires. Another perk is he for the most part does not have the fear of being laid off, outsourced, etc. He mentions he works with Cisco infratructure. Look ta all the iT pros that are out of a job right now and begging for IT work. In this day and age of this happening quite frequently the reassurance of having a job that is safe means some compensation in itself (mental health ease alone).


Another perk is you can retire after 30 years collect your pension and then go into civilian job sector and receive prefferential treatment on hiring because you are a vetern.

Also besides your combat pay you pay no income taxes while in combat.

I really do appreciate what the military does and have a brother in law who is a Col in the Army. But sometime these letters irk me(whether liberal or from the right) when they leave this info out and portray something as a really bad deal when in reality it not that bad a deal.

[427TJ]

"Yes he may take home "only" $13,000 per year BUT he has free housing, free utilities (except phone), no property tax, does not have to do any lawn maintenace like cutting grass if he lives on base housing, PX privledges etc etc."

$13,000 take-home is still jack-squat, whether someone else mows the grass outside his enlisted dorm building or not. I lived in officer housing in the USAF and if I left the porch light on after sunrise I had to stand tall in front of the Wing Commander. I also had to mow the grass, front and back, and if the Wing Commander thought my lawn was a tad long then I was in trouble. The PX ain't that great unless you live on a base with a large retired military community nearby, like Luke AFB in Phoenix. Great Commissary (supermarket) there but the ones at more remote bases suck. We did most of our grocery shopping in town. Oh, and many of those young enlisted with babies were delivering pizzas in the evening after duty hours.

"Plus he received free training in his occupation from his years in the military which he can then go onto the civilian side when he retires."

That's the trade-off we make with a all-volunteer force and it's a major recruitment tool. Why would any red-blooded young American not want to learn a marketable skill while in uniform? How many prison guards, police officers, customs agents, border patrol, TSA, etc. got their start in the military? Millions of them.

"Another perk is he for the most part does not have the fear of being laid off, outsourced, etc."

Ever heard of a RIF? That's a "Reduction In Forces" and it's how the military reduces certain over-staffed (or just plain cut, like navigators) career fields. Yes, the smart/lucky ones can cross-train into a different career field but RIFs usually result in fewer troops in uniform. In today's military they need every breathing soul they can get so no RIF fears at the moment.

"He mentions he works with Cisco infrastructure. Look at all the IT pros that are out of a job right now and begging for IT work."

Much of the civilian I.T. work has been sent overseas where the cheap labor is, so yes, $13,000 looks great by comparison.

"Another perk is you can retire after 30 years collect your pension and then go into civilian job sector and receive prefferential treatment on hiring because you are a veteran."

A great old friend of mine retired from the USAF as a Master Sergeant. He went out to San Diego and applied for a job at a BMW motorcycle dealership. (He had attended the BMW mechanics school in Texas and gotten some form of certification.) The shop owner hired him but later said that because he was a retiree getting a gov't check he should take less pay than the other guys at the shop. That's a slap in the face in my book. "Thanks for your service and I'm going to pay you less because of it."

"Also besides your combat pay you pay no income taxes while in combat."

Well I certainly hope so! "While you're getting blown-up by car bombs we're gonna' make you pay income tax." SLAP! Again, that's part of the deal we make with our volunteer Army.

"I really do appreciate what the military does and have a brother in law who is a Col in the Army. But sometime these letters irk me(whether liberal or from the right) when they leave this info out and portray something as a really bad deal when in reality it not that bad a deal."

We all support the troops. But try getting by on that $13K per year plus "perks", plus many months in lousy combat conditions, and tell me how good a deal it is.

Don't get irked. Call your Congressman and ask him why the troops are still scrounging through Iraqi garbage dumps looking for armor for their Hummvees.

[Salvatore]

WOW Bill, You are into it. Are you a politician?

[427TJ]

NO! I couldn't do that job---couldn't kiss that much a$$ either. I like people, really I do, but my moral compass would go wild among that crowd. But it would be nice to get Congress' lifetime health care and retirement benefits. Oh, and the paycheck ain't bad. Plus, they get free parking up front at Washington National (Reagan) airport. Hey, you need a Congresional representative in your neck of the woods?

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Salvatore]

You da man Bill. Like I said, my son is going to Iraq. We are not happy about it. I don't care what they get paid. If he doesn't come back, it is all in vein. Don't know why the National Guard has to get deployed to there. I don't think this will ever end.

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Another perk is you can retire after 30 years collect your pension and then go into civilian job sector and receive prefferential treatment on hiring because you are a veteran.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is if you're lucky enough to survive that long...And I personally haven't seen any preferential treatment with hiring of veterans...

[JChlupsa]

Actually you DO NOT get Vet Perferance if you retire with 20 or more years UNLESS you get a Medical /retirement/discharge and that has to be Rated by the VA with a 30% disablilty or more to make you a 10 Point Vet. And its not as easy as you think to get a job with Uncle Sam and how its downsizing left and right

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this will ever end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Condi Rice (Secretary of State) said yesterday that "diplomacy has limits" with regard to Iran and it's nuclear ambitions. I sure as heck don't want Iran to have nukes but you should realize what the remedy is and it isn't talk, as Ms. Rice implied. We're gonna' have to go in there and stop them from developing the bomb. There's always a slight chance that the Iranians will halt their nuclear program but I wouldn't count on it. The Iranians know full well that with nukes they are safe from invasion so any military action to stop them will have to be soon, like within the next year or two. American military involvement in the Middle East probably won't go on forever, but it's definately gonna' go on for several more years.

[bilede]

Another perk here in AZ is when you retire and are getting your pension from military you can work for the state or local government and use your military time as time worked in the retirement system and buy into full retirement very quickly which allows "double dipping". lets face it, there are perks and severe risks with military life. to each his own. if you can get people to go for the amount you are paying I think you are paying enough. if not, raise the pay.. supply and demand is a good thing.

[Seattle Sam]

Whitetop, you are correct to point out the additional benefits over base pay. Where I have seen serious problem is with reservists, who often are leaving behind a family and a full set of bills along with their civilian paycheck. It can be a real hardship to cover all expenses while called up on active duty.

It's not a perfect world, they did volunteer, but it can be very tough for them.

Sam, my best wishes and Godspeed to your son, I know you will be praying everyday for his safe return - I pray that your prayers are answered and all ends well for you and your family.

-Sam

[whitetop]

I want to clarify what i said about preferential job hiring. Just read a report several months back that many companies prefer hiring veterns/ex military because they are more loyal, more disciplined and usually most important drug free. That is a fact.

Also there is preferential hiring of veterns for gov't jobs. That is a fact.

Some may take may first post as slamming the military. It was not. My neighbor who also happens to be a childhood friend has been a helicopter mechanic for the army since 1978 and is a sargent-not sure what level. He comes home about 3-4 times per year. He owns his own home or rents a very nice home wherever he has been stationed, has two kids in college and lives very comfortably on his army pay. he also said he has so many job offers in the private sector doing what he does he will never be able to go through all of them. He has never complained about having to get food stamps etc because of his army pay. Yes there are military families on food stamps but so are civilians.

I also have a friend who joined the air force back in '80. He has been out of the military for 4 years and works for Delta now. he has nothing but praise for the military and the schooling/techincal opportunities it gave him.

I guess I always remember the line "it's not what you say but what you do not you say" regarding mike braggs letter.

Dave I deleted your last line feeling though most likely made in fun, this is not the place for this line. Jeff

[Salvatore]

Thank you Sam. I have 4 sons and he is our second.

[Xplantdad]

SC69Sam,

How is your transplanted son doing? Hope all is going well. My daughter is also doing well, no rejection episodes(thank God) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[71SSNova]

Spent 6- 1/2 years in the Navy, here's my pay
1974 - $4,486 bought a 70 Nova SS for $1250.
1975 - $4,682
1976 - $5,657 got married in July so I received more pay for a family
Discharged Sept 1977 - $6,618 last 4 months was a factory job
July 1978 went back in Navy so first six months was factory pay - $10,587
1979 - $7,671
1980 - $8,801
Discharged April - 1981 - $4,037 Reagan admin boosted pay $200 a month, I thought it was great.
Yes, I got free medical for myself and family when I was married. When I was on shore duty for the two years July '78 to July '80, we lived in military housing which was a three bedroom house and utilities for about $250 month. Do the math and take $3k from my pay for those 2 years, not much to live on. And when I went back on a ship, my family moved back home to Ohio where the wife paid rent and utilities like everyone else.
I don't care whether the liberals or conservatives are in charge, MILITARY PAY SUCKS http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif, always has and always will.
For these idiots that think the military earns too much, wonder why they don't join to make those big figures?

Why did I do it, because I love the country I live in and the freedom I have. I've been around the world and I did not see one place I would prefer to live in. I'd like to see some more of the world but I'll always come home to the USA to live.

And I would serve again in a heartbeat!!!

I thank every veteran that has served for giving us a great country to live in.
GOD BLESS THE USA