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MikeA
03-24-2005, 06:45 PM
The following is from MSN Money (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P112987.asp)

GM may kill off Buick or Pontiac http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
One of automaker's storied brands may follow Oldsmobile to the grave if sales fail to meet targets, execs say. It's a move analysts have urged for years.

By Reuters

General Motors, which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands'' due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York.

But if some of its brands fail to meet sales projections, "then we would have to take a look at a phase-out. I hope we don't have to do that. What we've got to do is keep the brands we've got.''

Financial analysts have said for years that the world's largest automaker has too many brands to support, even with the gradual phase-out of the Oldsmobile brand a few years ago, particularly with its weaker U.S. sales.

Stemming the losses
Sales for both Pontiac and Buick have lagged in recent years. But GM is in the midst of a $3 billion investment in new vehicles for Buick, and Pontiac showrooms and they will have four new vehicles this year, including the Solstice roadster, Torrent SUV and the G6 mid-size coupe.

GM, which last week cut its earnings outlook for 2005 by as much as 80%, posted a 6% drop in U.S. sales for the first two months of the year. GM's U.S. market share fell to about 25%, far below its share of 27.5% for all of 2004.

Analysts said last week that GM's March sales could fall as much as 10% in March, while foreign automakers such as Toyota , Hyundai and Nissan would continue to gain U.S. market share.

Lutz said GM will post relatively flat U.S. sales for March, however, performing much better than expected.

"I think we're going to be just about even, our best guess at this point. Either a percent over or a percent under,'' he said. "It is a substantially better month than January or February, and it looks like the whole industry is up.''

'A huge albatross'
No details about an expected restructuring at GM, the largest private U.S. provider of health care, have emerged since it roiled markets with its warning last week.

But the company, which has about $300 billion in outstanding debt, said on Wednesday it was in talks to sell a stake in its GMAC Commercial Mortgage unit after potential investors expressed interest in the unit.

And Lutz and Gary Cowger, GM's president for North America, spoke of possible demands for a cut in mounting health care benefits for the company's hourly union employees in remarks on the sidelines of the New York auto show on Wednesday.

An elimination of any one of GM's brands would likely mean plant closings and a shrinking of GM's hourly work force.

"An across-the-board competitive health-care plan for salaried and hourly employees could literally save us billions,'' Cowger said. Health-care costs, added Lutz, are "a huge albatross hanging over American industry today.''

Lutz particularly acknowledged that the automaker, which will struggle to make a profit this year, faces challenges. But he said GM was "taking the necessary step to right this ship.''

"Sure, we face short-term challenges, and this is not going to be a banner year,'' he said. "It's a difficult period of adjustment. But we will get through it.''

He said some of GM's new cars, such as its Chevrolet Cobalt small car and the Pontiac G6 midsize car, will post their best sales to date in March, and told the Morgan Stanley conference "I don't know where all the gloom and doom is coming from.''

He quoted one car reviewer who said, referring to GM's troubles, that the quality of the Cobalt convinced him that "the Titanic may yet turn fast enough to miss the iceberg.''

budnate
03-24-2005, 07:36 PM
Poor leadership over at GM... really sad they have managed the place into the ground..to many days out on the yacht and not working takes it toll....

Charley Lillard
03-24-2005, 07:39 PM
I'm glad Lutz is now steeing the ship.

scuncio
03-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Lutz may be steering part of the ship but I think his course may be a rocky one...the Zeta RWD platform has been postponed at least 1 model year as of this week's news. Been real interesting working for the General this past week when they announced retirement matching cutbacks and no merit pay raises....

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
03-24-2005, 09:09 PM
I have faith in Lutz, and no matter how many days he gets on a yacht, I wouldn't want his job!

12bolt
03-25-2005, 04:26 AM
My money is on Buick taking the dive. even Tiger Woods cannot save them. But that Hot Black Chick surrounded by Candles,Dancing to Aerosmith's "Dream On", might give it a Boost! given what they did to the GTO (Bringing it back to life in Name only) maybe it should be Pontiac that gets CUT! ahhhhhhhh! Its kind of like Deciding to Kill Dodge or Plymouth! The Bottom line judging by advertising dollars spent, They want to keep Buick alive. I am back to neutral on this. It is a Sad day in all of our lives anytime a Big Automaker dies.

hvychev
03-25-2005, 05:20 AM
Well instead of all of us sitting and shaking our heads about it actually try and DO something about it and BUY AMERICAN!! I know it is hard to pass up those Hondas and Toyotas but there is more than a car on the line here. The auto industry is a HUGE part of the economy and think of all our fellow Americans that rely on GM to feed their familys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

budnate
03-25-2005, 07:01 AM
Frank settle down...most of us Run American rigs for drivers...Gm is where they are at because they are building Crap and also building stuff nobody wants...I thought there truck was coming around and my Cousine and I just went through this not three months ago He bought a loaded Duramax..well guess what he started it two days ago and was letting it warm up in the driveway...he was fiddling around in the driveway with something turned around to see the truck on fire under the hood...it had some kind of electrical fire and smoked the entire engine harness and the mainbody harness..gets better GM does not have a main body harness in the Country and has no idea when one will be availible...so how would you feal if ya dropped 40K cash on a rig and it does this to you..now you have a rig you married and have to drive it around after some monkey digs through the hole rig to replace the wiring...thats gonna be a nice quite interior after that...not...

Xplantdad
03-25-2005, 07:43 AM
I can see Frank's point about supporting American companies...as way too many businesses are going overseas for cheap labor, etc., but I also know what Bud is talking about.

From 1979-1983 I worked at an Oldsmobile-Honda-De Lorean dealer in Southern California. The Oldsmobiles were CRAP! GM had the great idea to convert the 350 into a diesel...and those engines weren't worth a $hit. Those year cars were built to fall apart after 3-4 years...In fact, one of the selling points that DeLorean had in marketing HIS cars was the fact that HIS cars were built to last...not engineered to fall apart(so that the consumer would have to buy again in that time frame)

Unfortunately for Delorean, the engineering on his cars sucked, too! We had SOOO many people get stuck in their cars when the inner door handle latches broke off(in their hands, no less)when trying to open up the doors. Some people had to wait up to 3 months to get replacement parts for their cars...

Honda's on the other hand, were cheap, got great gas mileage, ran forever with regular oil changes and had great resale value!

Is it any wonder that Ford realized that "Quality is Job #1"? That wasn't just a marketing ploy, they figured out that the American consumer wanted a good value for what the paid for...and they weren't getting it(at that time)!

Finally, in defense of the American auto makers...they are "light years" ahead of where they were in the 80's. I own a 2003 chevy truck...and I'm happy with it. But it pales in comparison to our BMW528it wagon...in fit, finish, quality and reliability.

Bud...tell your cousin to get a hold of the zone rep for Chevrolet. Have him tell the rep to get a harness off of a truck that's on the new car lot, so he can get his truck running again. Have your Cousin stay on top of the rep to make sure that he gets what he needs. The squeaky wheel gets the most grease! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

budnate
03-25-2005, 08:20 AM
I was gonna call but he was still smoking around the collar when we talked two days ago..he knows how to get things done but when we talked the other day the dealer kinda told him we are doing the best we can but cant install a harness they dont have...fairly bad if they dont have a part in the whole Country not on a rig...the harness must be wound up overseas???

MikeA
03-25-2005, 04:46 PM
We have a '98 Regal and a '01 Venture. Both cars have givens no problems. I can not complain about the General so far!

scuncio
03-25-2005, 07:45 PM
IMO, the quality of the GM cars today is because we've got 20-25% of the staff doing 99% of the work. There is an unbelievable amount of dead weight at this company. There's also a lot of job assignment transfers, usually someone who's unfamiliar with the new area he's assigned to, so at any time there are a bunch of technical staffers who are ramping up their skills and can't really contribute much to product development in the meantime. Suprise of all surprises, another issue is the near-universal lack of interest in cars themselves among the staff (obviously this doesn't include myself). GM's recruiting is missing the boat big time by not hiring enough people with an interest in its product. I wouldn't touch most of the GM cars today but I do like my 04 Silverado!

DarrenX33
03-25-2005, 08:13 PM
I am pretty happy with my Subaru Wagon. Built by the fine people of Layfette Indiana.

GM holds a 20-percent stake in Fuji Heavy Industries, Subaru's parent company.

Go ahead Belair. I'm waitin'. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hylton
03-25-2005, 11:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well instead of all of us sitting and shaking our heads about it actually try and DO something about it and BUY AMERICAN!! I know it is hard to pass up those Hondas and Toyotas but there is more than a car on the line here. The auto industry is a HUGE part of the economy and think of all our fellow Americans that rely on GM to feed their familys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you Americans about done with that "Buy American" stuff? Think about it for a second - Where is a Toyota Camry and Honda Accord made? That's right, in America! They are built by your neighbors and employ thousands of Americans. Where are all the parts for a Nissan Titan developed? In the U.S. - interior, sheetmetal, engine, wheels, tires, the whole entire truck. In fact, the Nissan Titan was designed by Americans in California.

I personally would rather buy a product that is going to give my neighbor a job and thus help my community than buy a shoddy product built in Mexico that is going to make some Suit in Detroit a few million in salary bonus.

This is proof that the level of quality in vehicles comes from the headquarters and not the people who build the vehicle. Americans make some of the highest quality vehicles in the world. American companies however do not. I drive a 2004 Yukon which has some minor issues that I can live with.

What did I have before it? A 1997 V6 Toyota 4Runner that I put 250,000 miles on. When I sold it, I got 10 grand for it and it burned no oil (no exageration). Still had its original battery, alternator, starter, rad, exhaust, PS pump and drivetrain. Never failed me once. Something tells me I won't be so lucky with my Yukon.

DarrenX33
03-25-2005, 11:59 PM
BINGO! Put a fork in it.

Born30YrsLate
03-26-2005, 02:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately for Delorean, the engineering on his cars sucked, too! We had SOOO many people get stuck in their cars when the inner door handle latches broke off(in their hands, no less)when trying to open up the doors. Some people had to wait up to 3 months to get replacement parts for their cars...


[/ QUOTE ]

Wow - that's a long time to be stuck in a car....sorry, had to say it....been a rough week at work. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Xplantdad
03-26-2005, 03:02 AM
I hear ya...crappy day at work for me, too!

Actually, most of the time, we had to break the side door glass to get the people out. The inner window was the only part that rolled down. See picture!

http://www.entermyworld.com/myd/pics99/exterma111x1.jpg

The average wait time for parts to repair the cars was 2-3 months...as the parts came from Ireland, through customs and then to a big warehouse in Irvine, Ca...and then to the dealerships! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Norm reynolds
03-26-2005, 06:42 AM
GM s problem is there engineers have their head in the sand # 1 they will never admit that Dex cool is junk a year ago we had four gms in my family One Pontiac Grand Am just fell apart every week it was some thing going bad Still have one 200 Grand Am Gt
It is now on it second intake gasket Dex cool eats up the gasket Last March my wife’s 2000 Lumina That just turn 30000 miles just fell apart all in two days First the radio was going crazy then the day I was take it back to the dealer for transmission problem the seat broke They tell me That all 20000 Luminas and a problem with a defect power valve and you have to pull the trans out They then tell me my warranty ran out the week before They then said it will cost 3,800.00 to fix I got in a heated battle with the dealership If they have a known defect they should have a recall on it So I left and stop by a Jeep dealer to look at a 04 Grand Cherokee I bought one that day Got a inline 6 with a 10 year 100,000 warranty Last summer when my sons Grand Am was acting up he got p--- off and also bought a Grand Cherokee with 10/100.000 then last Oct My 91 Blazer with 175, 000 miles the rear stated to go bad I can not complain with it It had been a good truck I did not know if I would rebuild the rear or replace it I happen to stop my jeep first to look at a used Cherokee I was not really looking to buy one That’s the best way to buy a car when your not really interested I ended up with a brand new 04 Grand Cherokee Columbia edition with all the bells and whistle It was the last day in Oct
Made me a deal I could not refuse every time I would say I will think about it and start to walk out They just kept making the deal sweeter and sweeter I also have 10/100.000 warranty I have all ways been a GM man but they just are not as good as they once were Heck even Hyundai’s give you 10/100.000 warranty GM has to get with the program So far I am very happy with my jeeps and I love that inline 6 that a 300.000 motor
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

mmcporter
03-27-2005, 02:45 AM
I'd love to buy American but I'm not going to buy something that will fall apart in year one. It's too bad things have gotten as bad as they are. Outside of Cadillac, there are few cars at GM I would really buy. Uninspiring unreliable cars. It's really too bad.