Retro Camaro future??

[12bolt]

While the FORD guys are loving the return of the Retro-MUSTANG and looking forward to a second chance at buying a "SHELBY GT500", brand new from the local FORD dealer, I wonder. Just what year of the First generation Camaro should a Retro Camaro be based on? and what powerplant offered today should be under the hood? How would you design yours??would a Yenko or Motion edition be offered in the second or third year of release?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif or just never bring the Car back at all? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

GM recently canceled it's plans to develop a rear drive chassis for 2008, to focus more on SUVs...so, don't hold your breath waiting on the General to do anything... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[12bolt]

Maybe the rising Gas prices will stem that tide! It is kind of Sad that they are just letting it go. But hey FORD left the T-Bird go a decade and brought it Back Retro style. not real successful.

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
But hey FORD left the T-Bird go a decade and brought it Back Retro style. not real successful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ford is going to leave the T-bird again, due to terrible sales. Heard it on the radio a couple of weeks ago.

[smooth]

I think the guys at GM are asleep. Ford and Chrysler are selling tons of retro cars. The retro camaro will NOT be built. The only GM retro is the SSR truck. I thought it was cool at first then i got a good look and they are but ugly. They are big and bulky. so if you want retro GM forget it. I'll stick to real cars, stock,custom,or rusted. The only thing GM is good for now is trucks. TIM!

[427TJ]

SUVs and pickups will continue to be the main focus of U.S. automakers, probably regardless of gasoline prices. They're comparitively cheap to build because they don't have to meet strict federal impact standards and people want the 'safety' and feeling of power that large vehicles provide (I'm bigger than you). The manufacturer's profit margin on SUVs and trucks is just too good to pass up.

If Ford had offered the new Thunderbird with a high-performance option that really was high-performance, they might have sold more of them. But again, people want big vehicles and the T-bird is basically a car idea from a bygone era. People see Detroit dream cars and say "build it!" and then those same people don't buy the car when it gets built.

The Mustang has something going for it that other names don't, in my opinion. The name "Mustang" conjures a spirit of the American West, of total freedom, of a wild and carefree spirit. Nostalgia is another aspect of the success of the Mustang. Ford lucked-out and timed the introduction of the '64 Mustang just right. There was a huge demographic of young people craving an identity of their own and there's this nice-looking sporty car with a great name: "Mustang." Yeah, a wild horse! That's me! Ford sold over a million '64-'66 Mustangs. I think that part of the American psyche is always there, the part that craves freedom of movement, style, unlimited horizons. Bill Ford was smart to let the Mustang designers craft the new car they way they did. It looks like a 1969 Mustang built to today's federal standards. I think they hit the nail on the head again. (Too bad they can't keep the price down in the mid-teens so that more young people could afford them.) Older people who remember the first Mustang see the new one and want to relive their youth. Most of us want to see another new Camaro (and Firebird) developed and built for similar reasons.

GM might build another Camaro/Firebird if they see a profit potential but the last Camaros built were over $30,000 for a SS or Z/28. I remember looking at a brand-new 2000 SS and seeing the $34,000 price tag and being shocked. I told the salesman, "It's a Chevy! It's supposed to be $20,000 MAX!" I just couldn't see paying $34,000 (+) for a 2000 Camaro SS. Isn't the new GTO over $35K? That's a lotta' bucks in my book. If GM builds a new Camaro/Firebird it is likely going to be close to $40,000, at least for the performace versions. You'd almost have to mortgage the house to buy one and that's something that our parents didn't have to do.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif (Or: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif)

[JQ]

I agree with you Tim, the first time I saw the SSR truck was in Jan. 2003 at the LA auto show, and I thought to myself I can't belive General motors would produce something so hideous. Minus the power plant I think GM tried to cover the truck era of the 50's with the front end,the eighties with the bed and the late 90's with the 18"or 20" wheels. I don't think the GTO is as bad but with all of the hype that was given to the motor I was expecting something more sportier. Maybe someday the design department will be on the same page as the engineering department.....John Q. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[89irconvertable]

tim seein how you are my boss and all i woul have to agree but im also gonna have to let everyone here know you are one sick and twisted individual

[Keith Tedford]

I've suggested it before. Do a retro '69 Camaro. They could build a V6 version for the budget minded, an LS1 style 302, and a COPO 427 with the new LS7. Get the styling and price right and they wouldn't be able to build enough. Something similar could be done with a retro Chevelle as an alternative.

[MikeA]

I agree if GM did it right they could not build them fast enough. GM really needs to get their head out of their a$$. How about a retro-Nova? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[12bolt]

Now you're really Talking! Retro Nova! So far extinct the thought never crossed my mind. it will probably never cross the Generals Desk either.

[WILMASBOYL78]

How about a retro-Nova? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'M IN!!!!!

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[bilede]

Don't worry guys, I am sure GM is on the phone now with toyota trying to work out the details for that new nova.. GM seems to think that retro won't hold up.. from what i am seeing on the streets the mustang is here to stay and gm will have its principals of not going back to good ideas. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Canucklehead]

I would'nt want GM to retro anything. Most likly they would screw it up so bad that it would ruin the name forever!!

[Donutblue]

I've got to agree with Keith, if you provide a model for every "pocket" in mind your going to sell more of your product. For comparison the Dodge Ram truck started out with the "big trucker" image which really was a success for their marketing department. Then they introduced the 365 HP Hemi, Mopar fans went nuts over that, next will be the retro 425 HP Hemi. Marketing ploy at it's best, much like computers - always more toys and upgrades. A retro Camaro or rear wheel drive Impala with a reasonable price tag would bring many into the GM market again, with a chance to keep them with upgrades over the years. --- Then again, how about some of the dealers jumping on the band wagon and providing aftermarket muscle.

[jg95z28]

After the previous debacle with the english to spanish translation of "No Va" I seriously doubt GM will ever make that mistake again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

While GM has cancelled "Zeta", they have not cancelled RWD cars in favor of SUVs and trucks. (Bob Lutz confirmed this himself on his web blog.)

Also, a well known GM insider and F-body enthusiast has said on several messageboards at several times that a new Camaro would not be "retro".

No idea of when, but Camaro will return... someday.

[Keith Tedford]

The Impala is about Chevelle size. How expensive would it be to reskin the car with a retro Chevelle look. A model change is due anyway. The floor pan would need to be modified for the drivetrain and you could even keep the independent rear suspension. Turn the engine to a fore-aft setup and you have it using most of what you already have. It's not like a whole new car would have to be developed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[firstgenaddict]

Maybe GM will stick to their principles but it's hard to save your face and your ass at the same time so why don't they build what the people want? RETRO 69 Camaro's.
The Mustang is awesome and I can't stand FORDS.

[Chevy454]

Anyone see the interview in MCE with retired GM stylist Ron Hill? Near the end of the interview, they brought up the fact that Ford is going HARD after the retro segment, and being successful, and they inquired what his thoughts were. Mr. Hill said that he felt it was a mistake on Ford's part, and that he not only agrees with GM's current anti-retro approach but "applauds" it. He felt that Ford's retro cars apply only to a niche market, and that there is no way to follow them up once they've run their course.

Well, I disagree with Mr. Hill...while it might be a niche market, it's a fair sized and growing niche, and GM is losing it's @ss in that department...my thinking is that those niche cars drive the sales of it's more *mundane* cars. But what do I know...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[budnate]

I agree with you Rob...problem is there a bunch of Mr Hills walking around patting each other on the back and telling them what great job they are doing over there at GM...truly sad his brain is so small,and how he could make a stupid statement like that...no way to follow up??? uh maybe add more power, restyle etc... what a goon!!! thats why they have people drawing things and testing the market once in awhile to see what people think..maybe even build a mule and let it be seen...have they totally lost there minds and have no clue how to build a car anymore????

[Donutblue]

I don't know Mr. Hill But GM should take a lesson from IBM. Years ago a young kid approached IBM to sell them the rights to the DOS program and they turned him down, so he went off on his own --- Bill Gates now overshawdows IBM. Ford will do very well with it's retro Mustang and I suspect the stockholders of Ford may as well.

[Keith Tedford]

I suppose Mr. Hill had nothing to do with the SSR or the Aztek. Now there are two vehicles that don't appear to have a very bright future. They appeal to no one in particular. Retro something that has large appeal and things will be different. Get it right like Ford did with the Mustang and you will surely have a winner. Get it wrong and you lose your shirt. I don't understand the GM mindset at all other than perhaps they are all afraid to take a chance. Perhaps fresh enthusiast blood would help. Stick to the middle of the road and you will get hit with traffic from both directions. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MikeA]

If GM does produce a retro-Camaro they better bring the "A" team in order to compete with the Mustang.

[DarrenX33]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Hill said that he felt it was a mistake on Ford's part, and that he not only agrees with GM's current anti-retro approach but "applauds" it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, we'll show Ford by producing nothing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Chevy454]

Exactly, Darren! It sounds like we're all on the same page here...well, except for the brass at GM. I just don't understand how the folks at GM *can't* see it? Do they believe it's just coincidence that Ford is on the rise, soon after the release of the GT(40), the retro Mustang, an earlier Mach 1, an Elanor car, and a soon to be released GT500? And what does GM do, they axe the F-body platform and give us a rebadged Aussie car and a poor attempt at a retro street rod? Ford does shaker hoods and *actual* retro styling, and GM does overweight and underpowered...has GM just abandoned that part of the market?

[Mr70]

Someone from GM a few years ago said, "all this retro restyling of the past was just a Fad".
I'll bet he's cold in Siberia right now.

[DarrenX33]

Tell you what. Over the weekend I saw an orange 2004 Mach 1 Mustang at a stop light. First of that color I have seen. Granted the new 05s are out and that's where all the hype is but this thing looked sweet. I spent the whole duration of the red light looking at it. And I noticed I wasn't the only one. Others around me were looking to. I spotted 1 young kid going the opposite way and slowing down to catch a look. I like what Ford is doing. I am always keeping my eyes open for Mach1s and Cobras. They sound good to. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

God I have to dig out that issue of Car Review that showed the GTO badged 85 Grand Am that Pontiac was toying with. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[LVCamaro]

Rob,

Come see me this October, after the General visits my house in yellow. Bring all you got!

LOL

[DarrenX33]

That indeed is the exception Steve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[LVCamaro]

LOL...Rob hates that kinda talk http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

SS

[Chevy454]

As Darren said, your soon to be toy will be the exception to the rule! As light as the ZO cars are, and now with 500 horses? Friggin' stupid power to weight ratio! Those 405hp cars were a b!tch to tangle with on the big end of the track, I can't imagine what those 500 ponied cars will be like! And in yellow even...man, you're cruel! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Belair62]

Yeah but his head will have to stick out the top and cause drag since is is such a tall dude...

[Mr70]

Rob
You headed down to the Landing this weekend?
GO ILLINI! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.lenharth/basketball%20hottopic.gif

[Keith Tedford]

Bob Lutz is talking like the automotive writers over reacted. Seems like GM still has something up their sleeve for us. We'll have to wait and see. Personally, I'd go for a rear drive, NASCAR look Monte Carlo. Down in the front with big rubber all around. It would be a little bigger and more practical than a Camaro....for those who want practical. Might appeal to a broader market. Give me a 427 version. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[camarojoe]

Face it, the Camaro is dead and HAS been dead for 3 years now. 1967-2002, RIP. In 10 years there will still be people spreading rumors that an all new camaro will be coming out in 2 or 3 more years...Odds are good if they ever plaster the word "Camaro" on another car it will just hurt the image of the previous Camaros anyhow... probably just as well they let it rest in peace. I'd love them to bring it back the way it should be, but unless something earth shattering happens at GM, that aint gonna happen. I'm glad they haven't screwed up the Vette yet.

[Chevy454]

Rick: nope, thought about trying to swing some tickets, but decided it wasn't worth the hassle...better view on tc anyway!

Joe: very good point...the Camaro had bloated out of the price range of a big part of that niche market, and the GTO only pushed the price up...I wasn't opposed to killing it off, but I thought there was a newer, fresher, better platform just around the corner...but I was wrong. My buddy bought a new SS a few years back, but he coulda nearly got into a Cobra for just a tad more, and been ahead of the game in the horsepower department. I just don't understand how, or why, GM can't make a vehicle comparable to the Mustang, but ALSO with a comparable price? Are they using all the good ideas on the Caddys and the 'Vettes?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Canucklehead]

I would'nt want GM to bring back the Camaro. In the state of mind their in right now they would just screw it up so bad it would ruin the name. Remember when ford redid the mustang and brought out the mustangII. However the MustangII was a great seller but appealed to a whole different crowd. I would expect that if GM did bring back the Camaro they would target the tuner market and bring out some tinkertoy s##t can. If they target the muscle crowd it will pull away the corvette guys, i mean how much would they want for the car we would like to see them build. Being that the corvette is a arguably the best bang for your buck in it's segment, they would'nt be that far off on a Camaro to recoup their R&D dollor. I don't know how ford can keep the mustang so cheap, they must expect to sell a buttload (which is'nt unexpected), there's some confidence in what they do and alot of pride.

[89irconvertable]

i have diriven the ssr its not bad but i wouldnt say there is anything special about themi personaly think the stance is way of on them

[Pantera]

They introduced a new model last night on the speed channel called the "COBALT SS".

My impression was it was a cross between a ricer and a Nova sized car. Looked neat but not a Camaro for sure. It is offered in various levels of performance up to the "SS" just like they have always done.

I was too sleepy at 2 am, to remember much. I am sure you guys will know more in the next few days.

Pantera

[Chevy454]

The Cobalt is a 4-cylinder front-drive Cavalier replacement...granted, the SS gets a supercharger, but please don't confuse it with a performance car!

[Pantera]

Oh don't worry I thought it looked something like a Cavalier only perhaps smaller and to hear them talk it was going to be a a new level of hot rod of sorts. OH well if that is the best they can do.

[jg95z28]

Actually the Cobalt was previewed over a year ago. The base sedan was released last fall and the Cobalt SS is just starting to hit dealer showrooms after production delays.

Also coming down the pipe is the 2006 Trailblazer SS. Yup an SUV with the 6.0L LS2 on board. And next year the Monte Carlo and Impala get the 5.3L V8... although they remain FWD.

Performance isn't dead at GM.

[Keith Tedford]

The GXP Pontiac already has the 5.3. There should be enough performance to keep the trips from getting too boring. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[70 copo]

This pretty well sums it up for me. GM is going the same direction that Chrysler did in the late 70's-and Harley did as a company at that time as well.

JMO...I am sick of the excuses from GM and Chevrolet for the poor product that is being built. Most if not all the product is either overpriced-or ugly period. In '93 the Camaro beat the Mustang on price was faster and better. and sold well. GM noticed this and raised prices to increase the bottom line.

The end of the Camaro as we knew it actually started in 1993 as Chevy Ads referred to the Camaro as a "Sports car" for the first time and not a sports coupe as it always was. How long do you think it took the bean counters at GM to figure out that they now had two sports cars at Chevy?

The Corvette was destined to win the battle, and by 1996 the GM Exec's forced Perkins out - put middlebrook in and the death of Camaro was sealed. The 1997 ad campign was Lame and appealed to the wrong market segment. They failed to go after the kids-Big mistake. Prices continued to go up. The restyle of 98 looked great in black but the rear of the car still looked like a several other cars on the market, and the round tail lights and smaller bumper cover did not make it. Bad move.

At the managment level Middlebrook was the WORST thing that could have happened to the Camaro. Middlebrook ran Pontiac in the early 90's and with the exception of the Firebird T/A there was no "Excitement" to be found.

Until GM has a rebirth of some type I feel a new Camaro in this decade may damage the Camaro name the same way the Toyota "Nova" did for the Nova.

It may take until 2017 for GM/Chevy to rebuild enough to make a quality product. The next Camaro could be Hydrogen powered if at all. But first GM needs to survive. Sad to say but Caddy is now the performance segment at GM. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif


Want more info? read this:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/insiders/0503/30/B01-133557.htm

[Keith Tedford]

Since 1983 the Oshawa truck plant has more than doubled its production per shift and at the same time reduced the man hours to build a vehicle. There appears to be at least 3 levels of management on the floor at all times. Workers are constantly being put on notice, given written reprimands and/or threatened with time off without pay. Many of the supervisors are people off the street with minimal management training and certainly little to none in the automotive industry. People skills appear to be a thing of the past. A whip works better. The workers, at least in Oshawa, are more than carrying their share of the load in turning the company around. Dent a truck and you get reprimanded or worse. Blow $2 billion on a sour Fiat deal and that's ok. We have to turn off a lot of computers and lights on weekends to save that kind of money. We bought a new Jimmy from the Linden plant. The workers appear to be doing a great job there as well as we have had zero problems and everything was assembled properly. GM's problems are definitely up the ladder and you only have to look at the first rung to start. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[GRB]

Not sure I get the gist of this thread but I'll add a little gibberish anyway. Keep in mind I bought a 66 Paxton SC Mustang Cobra out of CA in the mid 80s and sold it within 6 months for $17,500. The guy I sold it to had it SOLD for $30k. God knows what it's worth now.

After typing that I've got to go outside and do something real physical for a few minutes before continuing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[MikeA]

[ QUOTE ]
...I bought a 66 Paxton SC Mustang Cobra out of CA in the mid 80s and sold it within 6 months for $17,500. The guy I sold it to had it SOLD for $30k. God knows what it's worth now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Try not to think about. I'll bet there are plenty of stories like yours out there.

[GRB]

I really don't think about it. It simply serves to verify my credentials as a collector car expert. Consider that I also let a 70 LT1 Vette and a 65 Z16 Chevelle slip through my poor little fingers. Not to mention numerous 55 chevys. Call me.....gimme a little while on this one......... Soothsayer? Is that it? Is that even a real word?

[whitetop]

The real question is will GM(as we know it) even be around 10 years from now. They are losing around 2% market share each year. Right now it is around 24.75%. In 2006 they are going to be short $1 billion dollars to fund their health and pension plans. Their bonds are near junk status now. The trade commission almost voted them junk bond status in Febr. but GM talked their way out of it and got a reprieve.
If GM bonds go junk status no financial institution can hold their bonds in their portfolio and they will have to sell them. If that happens GM's stock will go to about $4-5 per share.
Gm has a huge inventory of unsold cars and trucks and like the '70's still has their head up their butt in terms of small fuel effiecent cars and changing gears quickly in midway for unforseen sales problems.
Also first quarter sales are down something like 50-80% over last year because they used up all their incentives last year.
Shanghai Motors in China also royally screwed GM to the tune of billions of dollars. GM built the plant and spent millions on a small car design(Chevrolet Spark) and China just copied the car down to the littlest nut and bolt and made their own assembly line. Now Cherry motor car company is planning on exporting 50K per year by 2007. GM is suing Shangai Motors but they might as well get in line with the hundreds of other American companies screwed and filing lawsuits due to business dealing with our "friends" over there.
American CEO's need to learn that the chinese are in it for themsleves, not the US.

My rant for today http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Canucklehead]

Why dosent Toyota step up and buy GM, than maybe sometning good will happen.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I think you should go bang your head on a rock http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should go bang your head on a rock

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[JoeG]

GM reminds me of what Coca-Cola did when they changed the formula on Coke to cater to the younger market and forgot about the 'niche' of old core uses. It was like a Revolution-I had to laugh when Coca-Cola actually had to call a T.V. press conference to tell the public they were going to produce Classic Coke with the original formula......I think the geniuses who decided to change the original Coke formula went to work for GM ... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Belair62]

That stuff tasted like crap...

[JoeG]

My point exactly........

[Paul_S]

Yup, it tasted like pepsi.

[skierkaj]

With the original formula huh, can't wait to see all the people staggering from the Cocaine . . .

If you didn't know, that's how it got the name "Coke"