69 X22 on ebay dealer installed 427...REAL?

[Leonard]

69 Camaro with dealer installed 427. Has warrantee card stamped VOID of 427 engine installation. Is it legit? Check it out. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4550101978&sspa gename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[John Brown]

try this link

69Camaro (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4550101978&catego ry=6161&sspagename=WDVW)

[JChlupsa]

Nice looking Camaro but I would look real close at the rear clip. Why would someone restore a car and fill in the back up light holes. Replaced tail panel could have been done and they forgot to cut out the areas for the back up lights, but the question would be why was it replaced, severe rust or collision damage!!! They also deceive you by saying [ QUOTE ]
<font color="orange"> The original 427 was completely rebuilt </font>

[/ QUOTE ] Yet they admit that it is a dealer installed 427 which means IT CAN NOT BE ORGINAL!!!

[SamLBInj]

did you read this part???
""This vehicle is being sold as is, where is with no warranty, expressed written or implied. The seller shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defects herein, and makes no warranty in connection therewith. No allowance or set aside will be made on account of any incorrectness, imperfection, defect or damage. Any descriptions or representations are for identification purposes only and are not to be construed as a warranty of any type. It is the responsibility of the buyer to have thoroughly inspected the vehicle, and to have satisfied himself or herself as to the condition and value and to bid based upon that judgement solely. The seller shall and will make every reasonable effort to disclose any known defects associated with this vehicle at the buyer's request prior to the close of sale. Seller assumes no responsibility for any repairs regardless of any oral statements about the vehicle"" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[Belair62]

I could swear there was a thread on this car previously...

[Lynn]

Cobbled up car at best with a resale paint job. Heater core bypassed. No wiper motor. Hurst super shifter with the tunnel cut up and a mongo boot to cover the hole. If it were truly a labor of love, someone would have taken care of those things, as well as the "easy fix" back up lights. I am always amazed at the guys that tell you about these "easy fix" deals. If it's so easy, why didn't someone do it?

I don't know about you guys, but I don't know why having a "dealer installed" 427 would make one of these cars more valuable than if the it had an "owner installed" 427 back in the day. I realize some of the first swaps such as Nickey, Motion and Yenko have historical significance. Personally, I wouldn't pay any extra just because a dealer installed an engine.

No telling how beat up and rusty this thing was. How much rust was properly cut out and repaired, and how much was covered up only to rear its ugly head in a few years?

Just my two cents.

Lynn

[GM-26]

Its been pulled off E-bay...

[JChlupsa]

Still listed. Should have been painted its org Clacier Blue paint though instead of H/Orange

This cars trim tag is coded 53 B not 72 B
-------------
<font color="red"> 1 = Chevrolet
2 = Camaro
4 = 8-cylinder engine
37 = coupe body
9 = 1969 model year
N = Norwood, OH assembly plant
580532 = vehicle serial number sequence

Decode for body number: 228125

01B = Built the Second week of January.
69-12437 = Coupe.
NOR = Built in Norwood Ohio.
711 = Standard Black Bucket Seats.
53-B = Lower Color is Glacier Blue and the Vinyl Top Color is Black.
X22 = SS396 with style trim
</font>

[69LM1]

OK, probably going to be blasted but.........


I agree that the car does need a lot of love. But, if it was (of course a big IF) a dealer installed 427, then is that not getting into a fine line on the differance between a yenko installed 427 and one installed by another dealer?
Of course that also brings up the whole thread on COPO 427's vs Owner added 427's.

In the end, it looks like a good project, and if that paperwork on the vioded warranty is real, then that is cool in my book. If it stays in the $20,000 range (and the reserve looks like it is met at 20k) I think that is a OK deal (as long as it was not totaled from the rear).

I do think that the car would have garnered alot more respect if the current owner would have "finished" a few things and replaced a few parts. And also put it back to correct color.

Just my .02

Rich

[DirtyS]

As 69LM1 states, why is it something special if Yenko/Nickey/etc dumped a 427 in versus another dealer? I'll have to pump my dad for more info, but back in 69 his best friend bought a SS 396 Camaro from my family's dealership. Not being satisfied with the performance, he had the dealership install a crate L72 engine.

Should the one and only "Jones Camaro" be worth any less/any more than the others?

Perhaps this car is it? edit;Now that I have looked at the ad it obviously isn't. Being in Eldridge Iowa definitely perked me up though. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Close to WI.

I'm being only slightly facetious on this. Been meaning to ask if an unknown dealer car such as this would be respected like the famous ones.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
the famous ones

[/ QUOTE ] I think the history and relationships of the Nickey/Yenko/Harrell cars is what sets them apart...

[Jeff H]

For some reason, cars like this just don't bring the attention and money yet. But when you get down to it, they're no different than a Nickey, Motion, Dana, early Yenko, etc. The only real difference is that you can't compare a dealer transplant to a factory 427 installed COPO. Other than that, they are all transplant cars so they should be looked at equally. Add the fact that this car has paperwork documenting the 427 swap and voided warranty and it should be better than a non documented "name" dealer transplant.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
they are all transplant cars so they should be looked at equally

[/ QUOTE ]
Jeff....just the fact that you KNOW and have heard about
Motion,Nickey,Yenko and the few other HiPo dealers who made these cars and the magazines swarmed all over them should make a light bulb go off...these dealers were at the forefront of these amazing cars and were the reason there were COPO's...

[Jeff H]

I think we have to give Don Yenko most of the credit for the COPO 427 package. Heck, Joel even said he never knew of the COPO. But take away the COPO 427 cars and everything else is a transplant. Some guys would offer guarantees and more tuning and some would just drop the 427 in and leave it at that. Why is a Nickey 427 car worth more than a Reedman 454 car if they're both dealer transplants and documented? It's all about the name right now, but I think the unkown but documented swaps will catch up quickly.

[Mr70]

I have Paper work on an unusual Transplant from the now defunct Ray Ridge Chevrolet in Michigan.Its Rogers Chevrolet today.
A customer ordered a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle,and the dealer delivery &amp; order papers show they yanked the LS-6,and installed an all aluminum ZL-1/LS-6 engine from the parts bin,as well as a Fiberglass front end,hood,and decklid wing.
I have three pages of docs including the part numbers from the Chevrolet Hi-po parts catalog showing there really was such an engine available back then.
I also have a letter from the owner stating the dealer told him they made 15 such 1970 chevelles.
Although not as well known as the other dealers,I feel it shows some dealerships were indeed doing similar things back then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[JChlupsa]

So if a person bought a car from one dealer and took the car to say Nickey/DANA/Harrell etc to do the transplant what would the car be? Would it be considered one of their cars even though they did not sell the car new?

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]

A customer ordered a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle,and the dealer delivery &amp; order papers show they yanked the LS-6,and installed an all aluminum ZL-1/LS-6 engine from the parts bin,as well as a Fiberglass front end,hood,and decklid wing.
I have three pages of docs including the part numbers from the Chevrolet Hi-po parts catalog showing there really was such an engine available back then.
I also have a letter from the owner stating the dealer told him they made 15 such 1970 chevelles.
Although not as well known as the other dealers,I feel it shows some dealerships were indeed doing similar things back then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Rick, that's cool! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

I know that Cone Chevrolet in Fullerton, Ca and Anaheim/VernTrider/Whatever the heck else the name was in Anaheim also did some cool engine swaps back in the day. Even Eddie Hopper in Garden Grove had some hi-po cars...

[Kim_Howie]

Jeff,How about Fred Gibb And the 68 Nova's The first COPO's. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Belair62]

Jeff...I guess you just don't get it....would you pay more for a painting by Monet or a very nice landscape by Belair62 ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff...I guess you just don't get it....would you pay more for a painting by Monet or a very nice landscape by Belair62 ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear those early 'Belair 62's' are starting to command the big bucks...according to Christie's! I actually have mine displayed prominently in the garage... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
very nice landscape by Belair62

[/ QUOTE ]

I am interested. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
very nice landscape by Belair62

[/ QUOTE ]

I am interested. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

D-

I'll sell you mine...but it'll cost ya! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff...I guess you just don't get it....would you pay more for a painting by Monet or a very nice landscape by Belair62 ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I get the point, but I'm saying there is no reason that 2 identical performing vehicles should be priced differently and I think the market will make the correction once people start buying these other dealer transplant cars. If you stuck an L72 into a Camaro and Monet stuck an L72 into a Camaro they would both be the same thing and perform the same. A name doesn't mean it's a better product, it just means it's more recognized and therefore people overpay for it.

And Kim, I was referring to the COPO car with engine's that you supposedly couldn't order. The 68 COPOs were not engine upgrades so they aren't as special to most people as 427 COPO cars. But it all comes down to apparent value on most of these cars. If nobody hypes any of them, then they won't go up in value or cost. I'm just offering my point of view. I personally don't think there is anything that special about Motion cars other than he dropped in a 427 and put on some speed parts. The COPO 427 cars and the Nova LT1 cars are the coolest factory built supercars to me. But sign me up for one of those Belair landscapes, you never know what might happen if one of them showed up in a special place(like the Whitehouse) and the values got hyped up! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DarrenX33]

Jeff- Brand recognition. Been happening forever. From handbags to groceries. People are going to pay more for the Campbell's tomato soup rather than the Generic brand. More history, volume and etc behind the name. Nothing new here.

Frankly I am wondering if I should be bidding on this car for the price it's at now. In my case "Generic" brand is all I can afford. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Looks like a heck of a cool car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Jeff H]

[/ QUOTE ]
Frankly I am wondering if I should be bidding on this car for the price it's at now. In my case "Generic" brand is all I can afford. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Looks like a heck of a cool car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking too! But luckily I have no money so it doesn't matter.

[Xplantdad]

This isn't much different than this El Camino that's been recently posted for sale

El Camino L88 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/139418/an/0/page/0#139418)

I agree with Darren though...you will ALWAYS pay more for a name brand/name recognition....whether it be DANA, Baldwin, Yenko, Motion.

After all, they are the group of people recognized as being at the forefront of this movement. Sure, other no name dealers did the same things...but they didn't have the marketing savvy or the same automotive mechanical talent available...and also didn't have the same vision.

That's the big difference!

[69LM1]

Now, after taking a closer look at the pic, does it look like the "additional information" and "thank you" were computer generated instead of printed?
Still, if it is real, everyone is always complaining that the brokers are making the cars to expensive for the average guy, this one may wind up going for the price of a SS.

http://www.nois.net/bin/427info.bmp

[69LM1]

http://www.nois.net/bin/427info.bmp

[Kim_Howie]

If somebody from the dealership can back the info, great if they can't whatever. THAT don't mean nothing to me. They talked about they found on the back quarter the dealership name. Show me the picture??

[Kim_Howie]

When I found my 67 Yenko I put pictures of the trim tag the VIN# and the hidden vin # THAT'S how you show a REAL car.Kim Howie

[hvychev]

I personally think it is simple. The cars most of us are here celebrate are what we call supercars. Supercars by definition are dealer built hi-performance cars or non RPO hi-performance cars built by the factory for a specific dealer. Those cars MUST be converted BEFORE the time of sale when the car was NEW. At that time I am sure most of these cars were delivered with paperwork supporting why the original owner is paying more money than a new one with out the "upgrades" or modifications. Weather the paperwork survived with the car or is still at the dealership is a different story.

IMO a car that was bought at lets say Jones Chevrolet and brought over to Smith Chevrolet for an engine swap even a week later is simply just a day 2 car. But if someone walked into Jones Chevrolet and told the salesman, "I want a bad ass 427 Camaro" and they delivered him a dealer transplanted "427 Jones Camaro" then IMO it is a supercar by definition.

There are gray areas with this formula. What if the guy who walked into Jones Chevrolet told the salesperson he wanted that bad ass new 427 Camaro but they told him that they had to order the new motor so take delivery, drive it the way it is for a month, and come back to get it installed. But lets say they did the paperwork and charged him for the transplant AND it was on the paperwork at time of delivery. Gray area. What about some of the 69 ZL1's that were ordered by dealers that had to remove the motors and put 396's in them so the cars would sell? Those cars were sold as "new 396 Camaros". Very strange gray area.

I personally think the obscure dealer transplant cars are very cool. IF it were done prior to new car delivery. For example, I am a huge fan of a couple of dealerships local to me called Brigance Chevrolet and Fencl Tufo Chevrolet. If I had unlimited money and someone uncovered a prior to new car delivery with supporting paperwork dealer transplant car from one of those dealers I would pay as much if not more for it as a garden variety COPO car.

[Kim_Howie]

I Agree with you Frank. But it still boils down to paperwork. No matter what dealer. Kim

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
garden variety COPO car

[/ QUOTE ] I'll take the one that the General made.

[Mr70]

Me too.
Frank doesn't see things too clearly..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/Crosseyed.jpg

[Kim_Howie]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Jeff H]

I've always found the "Supercar" label to be a gray description. Personally, I go with the factory installed drivetrain cars like the COPO 427's and the LT1 Novas. The dealer transplant(before delivery) are cool as heck cars, but not in the same class as the factory built cars IMO. A warranty replacement 427 for a 396 doesn't even fall into the supercar class because it was after the fact. A Motion converted car isn't nearly as cool as a Baldwin/Motion car. But this is only my point of view on the subject and I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts as well. But a 386 car converted to 427 after a blown engine is cooler than a 396 car with a replacement 396(unless it's an original L89 that was replaced by the factory). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[DirtyS]

Talked to pops tonight about his buddies Camaro. It was a '69 396/375 that they replaced under warranty, after a month or two, with a L72. So, unfortunately it wasn't sold as such. It does seem this may have been his buddies plan all along as dad says "There was nothing wrong with that engine." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif If you couldn't get it from the factory get it under warranty. (They didn't know about the COPO's unfortunately)

They did the same thing with another good friends '69 396/375 Nova.

Both of them claimed their engines used excessive amounts of oil. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

While neither may be "real" cars, I'd love to find either.