Ebay 70 Chevelle SS396 L-89 Convertible

[jfkheat]

If this is the real deal, it looks like a good price for a very rare car.
James

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...454061&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6164&item=45564540 61&rd=1)

[Charley Lillard]

Where did the figure of 6 built come from ?

[jfkheat]

Someone on the Chevelle site said there were 18 L-89 cars built in 1970 but there is no breakdown as to how many were convertibles. Not sure where he came up with that figure.
James

[GTO_DON]

[ QUOTE ]
Where did the figure of 6 built come from ?

[/ QUOTE ]THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT 6 L78 CONVERTS WERE BUILT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW. I THINK IT STARTED WITH THE WHITE ONE WITH THE RED INTERIOR THAT WAS AT BARRETT A FEW YEARS AGO.

[Mr70]

I don't believe this is a True L-89 factory car.
Tonawanda & Chevrolet records show only 18 1970 L-78/L-89 Chevelles were built on the line,and I believe no more then this.At least 4 are with us still.
There are more then 6 1970 L-78 convertibles accounted for.
We can blame a classic Car broker for that misinformation.
I know of 13 real documented 1970 L-78 Converts on the road today, by my last personal count,with many more to be authenticated.
I just found another documented 1970 LS-6 convertible today,bringing my personal total to 26.

[COPO]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe this is a True L-89 factory car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rick, can you give more detail why you made this statement? Do you think it is a real L-78? I don't know the car, just curious about it.

[mmcporter]

What's an "Original CE Factory replacement block"?

[Mr70]

And you couldn't get the 1970 L-78 Chevelle with an M-22 rock crusher.
Had to be either an M-20 or M-21 or TH400.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
What's an "Original CE Factory replacement block"?

[/ QUOTE ]
Means they replaced the original replacement with the original replacement, got it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone on the Chevelle site said there were 18 L-89 cars built in 1970 but there is no breakdown as to how many were convertibles. Not sure where he came up with that figure.
James

[/ QUOTE ]

That somebody is Chuck Hanson http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif...President of the American Chevelle Enthusiast Society and a very knowledgeable Chevelle person.

It's the age old question does a Car that used to be something rare because of it's engine still hold High Dollar value without that thing that made it rare.. The Original Engine??? Then add poor documentation to the mix and you decide http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[PPPJJJFFF]

I'd be more concerned about documentation than having the original engine. Documentation is a must in my book. Patrick

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be more concerned about documentation than having the original engine. Documentation is a must in my book. Patrick

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me?? Please elaborate?? What are you documenting if the original engine is gone? Paperwork on something that isn't there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[PPPJJJFFF]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be more concerned about documentation than having the original engine. Documentation is a must in my book. Patrick

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me?? Please elaborate?? What are you documenting if the original engine is gone? Paperwork on something that isn't there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ] I'll try.

An example would be a 70 or 71 Hemi-cuda convertible selling for $1,000,000 up to the $3,000,000. Some of these cars are in the Chrysler Registry as not having their original engines. Not to surprising. However, with the support of original build sheets and fender tags, its obvious how these cars left the factory. Maybe this is a bad example because the "R" in the vin also tells part of the story. I don't believe its as easy with some of the GM cars.

I'll take a "Real" Yenko Camaro with paperwork, dealer invoice or some other proof of being a real Yenko. A replacement engine would not bother me that much. I'll pass on the car that can't prove its pedigree. Patrick

[LS6 RAT]

How come no one has questioned the heads and intake, both of which would not have come on this car. The heads are '69 ZL-1 and '71 LS-6 only. The intake is '71 LS-6 only.

[redeuce]

As memory serves me, these are indeed the correct heads and intake for these rare cars. GM did not tool up a seperate part for this super limited production run. Also, wouldn't it be more prudent to investigate the POP than try to figure if the car is real by looking in a book? Everyone throws production numbers around, but in fact we have learned through time that figures are not always accurate. I remember when there were 6 LS6 convertibles, then 14, then 26. Numbers change with time. In my humble opinion, if the POP is verified as legit, the casting dates on the heads are correct, and it is proven to be a legit CE block, the car is worth every penny that he is asking.

[TimG]

If you have a 1967 Corvette 435 roadster with the wrong motor and paperwork surfaces to show it is one of the 16 L89 cars, the value goes from $35,000 to $150,000. This happened to a '67 Corvette I owned in 1992. The paperwork is worth more than the car.

[Late BrakeU2]

Good arguments made on both sides of this one-I'd like to know what the general consensus is on paperwork v. born in driveline.Obviously having both is the call,but it seems there are so few cars with paperwork already(especially 69 camaros)that when you read ads your waiting for the ubiquitous"it's now powered by" or "the original engine is long gone" hide and seek fare.Nothing turns my crank more than a heavily documented car,but personally buying an investment grade muscle car with a C.E. block is like peein' in your wet suit-gives you a warm feeling,but nobody notices http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

Is that a good thing ??

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that a good thing ??

[/ QUOTE ]
Only if you cold http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Schonyenko2]

I seem to remember reading an article on these cars a few years ago. That article said they used 842 heads and the low rise L78, LS6 intake. That would seem to be correct as the short block assy would still be using closed chamber pistons. It appears he's kinda mixing open, and closed chamber parts that I find hard to believe the factory would have combined. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[redeuce]

Actually, I believe the aluminum heads are open chamber. Because of the already 12.5 to 1 compression ratio of the motor, and new emmission laws, a closed chamber was unnecessary. The important match up is square port vs round port on the exhaust side. The 569 intake is the low rise L78 intake manifold.

[redeuce]

The more I think about it, the ZL1 experts might be able to confirm this. I think there were three applications for that 074 open chamber head in 1970- the L89, the ZL1, and the often anticipated but never produced LS7. To get back to the car, I think the parts were right and I think if the POP is valid, the car is probably right.

[Mr70]

For the Chevelle SS in 1970,during the first 4 months of production,the L-78 Chevelle when optioned w/L-89 Aluminum heads used #842 closed chamber heads with 11:1 pistons,(as was carried over from 1968-69 L-78/L-89's),and used with the #569 intake Manifold...but the M-22 rock crusher was not a possibility with the 1970 L-78 or L-89 Chevelle,do to retooling/production constraints for the new 454 engine release.

The #074 Open Chamber heads were used on the larger piston 1969 ZL-1 Camaro-Corvette,1969 L88 Corvette & 1971 LS-6 Corvette.

Why has the seller ended this auction early?

[redeuce]

I thought the reverse was true. Didn't they switch to the open chamber head when they phased out the 396 in late '69 and went to the 402?

[TimG]

The more high performance and rare the vehicle, the more important the paperwork.
A 250 horse 1965 Corvette has more value with the original driveline than with the original paperwork. A L89 Camaro convertible world get more value out of having the original window sticker than the original engine where as a Camaro SS 350 would have more value with its original engine than a window sticker. These are just my feelings, but the rare, high dollar cars are faked and stamped. If it has a real window sticker, it is probably what it is even if the engine is a restamp.

[LS6 RAT]

Tim G.:

Definitely agree!!! Factory paperwork is worth MORE THAN its weight in gold for sure. Especially for the rare and desireable musclecars.

My other conclusion is a "survivor" car is worth way more than a restored car, especially the internal guts of the powerplant. Once opened up, no one ever seems to rebuild them with factory original parts again.