unusual 1969 Camaro with dealer installed sunroof

[Bob Jenkins]

look at this ebay add:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...item=4570314340 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay .com%3A80%2F4570314340_W0QQfromZR40QQsojsZ1QQfviZ1 &item=4570314340)


http://i13.ebayimg.com/02/i/04/77/d3/e2_12_sb.JPG

[Bob Jenkins]

with a hood tach:

http://i15.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/77/f8/ee_12_sb.JPG

and a column shift auto

[Supercar_Kid]

That 69 is something different for sure.
Dover White over white houndstooth, white vinyl top SS/RS, endura, and dealer installed, vinyl covered retractable sunroof. A cool resto project for sure. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

One question though, I was under the impression you couldn't get a POSI in an A/C equipped Camaro in '69? This one not only claims to have a POSI, but looks to have the original decal still stuck under the deck lid. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Kurt S]

> I was under the impression you couldn't get a POSI in an A/C equipped Camaro in '69?

Nope, no such restriction.
The other tale related to A/C was that tinted glass was required, which also isn't true.

[Supercar_Kid]

Thanks for clearing that up Kurt. I'm not sure why I thought there was no POSI available with A/C, it doesn't make any sense, but I thought I read it somewhere. Maybe it had something to do with ratios. Did A/C cars get special economy gear ratios as compared to identical cars w/o the A/C option? I need to start taking notes...

[mr396]

I know your talking about the 69, but my 68 has factory a/c with a posi and zero tint. it was also thought that you had to have ralley wheel's with disc brakes but mine has the painted steel rims.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
it was also thought that you had to have ralley wheel's with disc brakes but mine has the painted steel rims.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they XT coded 7" wide versions?

[Rat_Pack]

Mr396 and Joe, starting in 1968 you no longer needed to order the ZJ7 rally wheel option with disc brakes on the Camaros. There was a standard 14 x 6 steel wheel for disc brake non-Z/28 models and it was coded XF. In 1969 the SS and COPO models ordered w/o the ZJ7 rally wheel received a 14 x 7 steel wheel coded XT. All other disc brake equipped Camaros in 69, ecept Z's, received the XF coded 14 x 6 steel wheel as used in 1968. The 14 x 7 steel wheels were installed only on the SS and COPO models.........RatPack...........

[mr396]

No they are XF 6 inch

[mr396]

will any 68 camaro steel wheel fit disc brakes?

[Rat_Pack]

[ QUOTE ]
will any 68 camaro steel wheel fit disc brakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the backside of the wheel is different than those with disc brakes. As a matter of fact I have not any 14" non-disc brake wheel to fit any disc brake cars, even the 69 and later single piston floating caliper models. I ran into this last month while putting a set of wheels on a kids 74 Nova that had front discs. The front wheels were both 14 x 6 with the same backspace but one of the wheels was not made for disc brakes. I got to checking it a little closer and found the difference lies in the actual "hoop" of the wheel. The non-disc brake one only has about a 2" lip step up to where the "spider" or center of the wheel welds in, whereas the disc brake models have about 3" lip. I will try and get some pictures later this evening showing the differences.........RatPack.............

[Rat_Pack]

Here is the FC coded 14 x 6 steel wheel for drum brake 68-69 Camaros. Notice how narrow the lip is on the backside of the wheel. This will interfere with the caliper on a disc brake car. I will post a picture of a disc brake wheel in a little while.........RatPack.....................

[Rat_Pack]

Here is a picture of the XF coded wheel showing the clearance for the caliper on a disc brake car. Note how much wider the "lip" is compared to the FC wheel...........RatPack.........

[mr396]

Thats cool how you did that. I'll try to get a photo of mine. I wonder how many 68 camaros had the steel wheels with disc's?

[mr396]

I think mine look a little different,they are smooth up to the ridge.

[mr396]

pic 2

[camarojoe]

Am i seeing things or do you have the redlines mounted inside-out? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[mr396]

you have a good eye.That is the original us rubber tiger paw.the original owner didn't like the red stripe so he turned them to black walls.I remember my uncle had a new 65 442 and he did the same thing.

[Rat_Pack]

[ QUOTE ]
I think mine look a little different,they are smooth up to the ridge.

[/ QUOTE ]

mr396, thanks for posting your wheel as you are right. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif I took the picture of the back of my XT wheels as I didn't pay much attention to which one I grabbed out of my stash, I just saw the X stamped on the front and didn't look at it too close. But you can see the differences between the disc brake wheels and non disc brake wheels. This also applies to the rally wheels in the 14" diameter. I am still researching whether there different "hoops" used on the 15" diameter wheels for drums versus the disc applications. So far I have not seen the same scenario with the 15" wheels I have here as all of them have an inside diameter of 13-3/16" at the smallest point no matter the application. Offsets are the main differences......................RatPack.......... ..

As for the writing and lines on the pictures I used my "paint" program which is on most computers with MS software...............RatPack.................

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The usage for XT's must be different for non-Camaros then, because they could be had on non SS and non-COPO Novas - thinking of the 5k mile orange nova from Texas that W.Bushey found.

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
The usage for XT's must be different for non-Camaros then, because they could be had on non SS and non-COPO Novas - thinking of the 5k mile orange nova from Texas that W.Bushey found.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that was an XF rim on there.... 14 x 6?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I thought they were XT's, but maybe not?

[Supercar_Kid]

Ok...do I have all this straight?

XF 14x6" original equipment on 68-9 Camaro non-SS w/ disc brakes

XT 14x7" original equipment on 69 Camaro SS & COPO, 69-70 Nova SS w/o any additional wheel options (Ralleys N66 etc.)

CL 14x7" original equipment on 70 Camaro SS w/o any additonal wheel options

[Rat_Pack]

Supercar kid, you are correct on the applications of those wheels but you can add to the XF codes 68-70 Chevy II/Nova with disc brakes except SS and 70 COPO's. Only the 69-70 SS and 70 COPO's could have received the XT wheels in the Nova line since they were 7" wide, all other Nova applications received the 6" wheels...................RatPack...........

[camarojoe]

What are the production stats on 69 Camaro and Nova non-SS with factory front discs? Had to be pretty rare...In fact, I don't know that I've ever even seen one. 4 wheel drums seem to be the norm on any non-SS cars I have ever seen that hadn't been messed with...Also, was it possible to get manual discs on anything in 69, or did the power booster come as part of the disc brake option?

[mr396]

I think the XF rims were also for 68-69 camaro SS with disc brakes

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the XF rims were also for 68-69 camaro SS with disc brakes

[/ QUOTE ]

No, i don't think thats correct, SS cars got 7" wheels as standard equipment. (XT)

[mr396]

I think your right about 69. My 1968 camaro SS396 Has XF disc brakes 14X6 steel rims.

[camarojoe]

Yes, XT's on 69 SS camaros and Novas... and XTs on 70 SS Novas too, but not Camaros, which were CLs...Were XT wheels used at all in 68 or were they all XF 7"s on the SS cars? Now I'm getting confused again! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mr396]

I'm all ways confused http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif The only thing I think is for sure http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif is the 68 camaro SS disc brake steel wheel is coded XF.I just thought they were 14X6

[Mr70]

WTF

[Rat_Pack]

<font color="red"> mr70 </font> I am with you! Okay I will list the std steel wheels and codes only with sizes and applications for the disc brake equipped 68-70 Novas &amp; 68-69 Camaros below. ALL Chevrolet cars in 1967 with disc brakes received rally wheels with the flat cap that said DISC BRAKES on them. Rally wheels were not available on drum brake cars until 1968 and that is when Chevrolet went to the "derby hat" style center cap and it did not designate drum or disc brakes.

<font color="blue">camarojoe </font>, I have never seen a manual disc brake Camaro until 1970 but not sure if they were available on the Novas in 1970. Disc brakes automatically required the J50 power booster on all 67-69 Camaros and 67-69 Novas. There are a couple of disc brake non-SS 69 Camaros around here and both are 350 cars. If you take the total production of SS and Z28 plus a guesstimate of 500 COPO Camaros including the ZL1's that gives you an approx total of 57,000 Camaros with disc brakes in 69. Chevrolet production totals show a little over 67,000 Camaros were equipped the J52 option so that leaves around 10,000 base Camaros equipped with power disc brakes. Not a lot compared to the number of cars built. Also the 7" wide wheel did not come out until 1969 and those were limited to SS &amp; COPO models on the Camaro and SS models on the Nova that same year.

Std steel wheel applications for disc brakes:

XF 14 x 6

68 Camaro all with disc brakes
68 Chevy II all SS and all with disc brakes
69 Camaro all with disc brakes except SS &amp; COPO
69-70 Nova all with disc brakes except SS, and optional wheel on drum brakes in 69.

FC 14 x 6


68-69 Camaro all except disc brakes

Not used on the Chevy II/Nova

XT 14 x 7

69 Camaro SS &amp; COPO with disc brakes
69 Nova SS with disc brakes
70 Nova SS &amp; COPO with disc brakes

Thanks to Alan Colvin for helping out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif I hope this clears things up........... RatPack............

[Jonesy]

Yes and there is a forgotten one IF wheels also came on 1969 SS Camaros. Its on my buildsheet and confirmed by the CRG.

[Kurt S]

&gt; Disc brakes automatically required the J50 power booster on all 67-69 Camaros

Not true. 67 Camaros had manual discs available. 68-9 had only power discs.

I'm not quite sure on the production #'s. J52 was part of the 69 SS package and was not ordered separately. I'm not sure if that 67,000 total includes SS cars or not. I should know that......

[Rat_Pack]

Kurt my error http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif on the manual discs in 67 for the Nova, Chevelle, Camaro, and Impala as I was thinking 68-69 and typing something else. I have that problem from time to time. And yes you should know whether or not that total includes the SS &amp; Z cars........ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.... If the records shown are correct then there were 34,932 Camaros built with the Z27 SS option. However, if you add up all of the engines that were found in the SS models you will find that there were only 34,177 produced. The records are off by 755 units. Are we to consider that possibly the COPO's were considered SS cars? That would coincide with some peoples predictions of 500 or more COPO Camaros built plus the 69 ZL1's. Is this possible? That is why I figured the 67k J52 units sold was inclusive of the SS, Z28, &amp; COPO. If they are not inclusive that means half of the 69 Camaro production run received disc brakes. What do you think? Not sure what figures are correct anymore......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif...I was using the Camaro White Book 67-93 edition for the figures..................

Jonesy, I have a set of those IF wheels that came from a 69 SS350 car. If I remember correctly mine are dated December of 68, I know my XT's are...............RatPack...............

[Supercar_Kid]

I'm pretty sure you could get manual discs on a Camaro in 68 also. The SCW restored Kory Smith's Island Teal 68 Yenko a few years back and it was a manual disc car. It just had RPO J-52 front disc brakes...no power assist.

[Rat_Pack]

supercar kid, In 1967 the J50 booster was optional at $42.15 on top of the $79.00 for the J52 disc brakes. In 68 it became standard with the disc brakes and the price reflected it at $100.10. This is documented by many original window stickers showing J52 as power disc brakes. Also the dealer order books and the factory assembly manual reflect this same thing.
I bet the car had power brakes originally and someone removed the booster when they changed to a more radical camshaft or even the booster just failed and they didn't replace it............RatPack.....................

[Kurt S]

Yup, manual discs were not available in 68, had to have a booster too.

[Rathbone]

Could it have been a Z10? That sunroof would seem logical and cool in a Z10.

[Supercar_Kid]

Definitely not a Z-10...but a unique 69 Camaro worthy of restoration for sure.
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/157261-Tag.jpg