A letter from Michael Moore

[Late BrakeU2]

Just for the record I hate fat Moore because of his propaganda and disrespect for those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs.That being said,it's been a dark decade for our great nation-

Subject: Fwd: Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush



Friday, September 2nd, 2005
Dear Mr. Bush:
Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.
Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?
Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!
I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?
And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!
On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.
There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.
No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!
You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.
Yours,
Michael Moore
[email protected]
www.MichaelMoore.com (http://www.MichaelMoore.com)
P.S. That annoying mother, Cindy Sheehan, is no longer at your ranch. She and dozens of other relatives of the Iraqi War dead are now driving across the country, stopping in many cities along the way. Maybe you can catch up with them before they get to DC on September 21st.

[Chris396]

I think the slow response from the government is an embarrassment.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the slow response from the government is an embarrassment.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...........I am a Bush supporter, but the open borders and this deal are just crazy.......I don't understand his logic in the border area especially...........

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

By the way.....Mr Moore is a P.O.S.......But he has the right to say whatever he wants

[dreemz]

I find it interesting that people with little understanding of the demographics or topography of a place like New Orleans would post a letter from Michael Moore to express their dissatifaction of how the hurricane disaster was managed. Maybe instead of whining or pointing fingers you could send a check to the Red Cross or Salvation Army to help. Do really believe first of all that it's either edifying or constructive to post a letter from someone who loathes the Bush administration as an objective analysis of how the serach/rescue/recovery issue was handled? Instead of politicizing such a monumental tragedy why can't people just try to help make a difference? Or maybe we should try and prove that George Bush was the sole instigator behind Katrina because (as announced by a particular rapper last night on an NBC celebrity fundraiser)he doesn't care about blacks?

[ANDY M]

I AGREE 100% that proactivity trumps blame every time.
The enormity of the amount of damage is what is hard to comprehend, and even if it is understood, the logistics of saving or helping all of these people is almost incomprehensable.
To try to put it in perspective, if this storm had come down from Canada and hit Lake Erie, there would have been severe damage from Toledo to Erie PA, and flooding as far south as Akron.
It would have taken FEMA a year to prepare for the rescue and clean up operations, and they only had a few days.
Mr. Moore may hate Bush, but there is no doubt that the government was too slow in responding. I'm not a Bush supporter, but I had to agree with him that this is not the worst catastrophe, nor will it be the last, and that the people in rural Mississippi might be the last on the list, but their suffering is just as bad as the folks in NO.
POINT IS:
HELP!! DO WHATEVER YOU CAN!
And pray that this place doesn't get hit again this year. Huricane season is not over yet.

[Donutblue]

I agree 100 percent that the best way to support those souls in this troubled time is to send $$$$ to some organization whose CEO's and administrators are not taking a major portion of the donated moneys (do some research here, I'm not gonna bash any charitble organizations). Further, it may be a nice gesture to see OPEC open their purse and help the U.S at this time. Not only will these gas prices be attached to all consumer goods, wait until you see what happens to lumber and building supplies ! We all will be paying for this tragedy in one way or another.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand his [Bush's] logic in the border area especially

[/ QUOTE ]

It' simple economics. Generally speaking, illegal immigrant labor (Mexican and south and central American, in this case) is the cheapest available. Illegal immigrants don't form labor unions, they don't have pensions or health care/retirement plans, and they are easily replaced by the steady inflow of more illegal immigrants. Oh, and most of them work like draft horses when handed a shovel, hoe, pick, leaf blower, or paint brush, in rain or shine. They also wield a large political influence in certain states (California, for one) via local Hispanic-American political groups. But, the bottom line is economics. Illegal labor does our dirty work and they do it CHEAP. If there's one thing we Americans love it's CHEAP anything, especially cheap labor.

Let's say you want some landscaping work done and you have a choice between an American guy driving a brand new $30,000 diesel crew-cab pickup truck with $2,000+ in chrome wheels and a lift kit. He wants $10,000 to do the job (and he'll probably have a crew of young Hispanic men do it). The other guy is an illegal immigrant from south of the border who has been here for ten years and he drove up in a '70s beater Datsun pickup. He wants $1,000 to do the job and his family will help him. The American guy has a truck payment, a fishing boat payment, and a house payment. He also has a '67 Camaro SS that he wants to buy a crate 502 for. The Hispanic illegal immigrant basically has none of that high-overhead stuff, just himself and his family to feed and a one-room apartment. He sure doesn't have a house payment to worry about. They're both digging a big hole in your backyard. Who will you hire?

(By the way, who does most of the block-sanding and other back breaking work in body shops? You gonna' pay Chip Foose to do it or the Hispanics down the street who'll do it just as well for a tenth of the cost? No offense to Mr. Foose, of course. He deserves every dollar he earns.)

As for the president (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, and on back), his powerful political allies/campaign donors in the business community (agribusiness especially) desperately need illegal labor. American companies have always wanted the cheapest possible labor (cost control) and with illegal immigrants they can scare Americans with the constant threat of replacement.

I work in the airline industry and there are fewer and fewer "Americans" and more and more immigrants in and around the airplanes. My airline fired all of its cabin cleaners (mostly white women but others too) and they have been replaced by Somali women and other (many Muslim) immigrants. All of the local ramp workers (unionized employees with full benefits) were also recently fired and replaced with cheaper workers supplied by an outside vendor (much cheaper). Northwest's mechanics are on strike but were immediately replaced by scabs laid-off from other airlines--the "brotherhood," so to speak. The pressure's on in the race to the bottom.

Basically there's a war on labor and it's been going on for decades. With the recent globalization trends of the past 10-15 years the war on labor has heated up through out-sourcing (China, India) and other downward pressures on the cost of labor. When corporate managers seek cost control they go straight to labor's pockets and shove both hands in. I myself have taken a 32% pay cut this year and my company really wants to cut into my retirement plan when we start contract negotiations in 2006. As far as the airline business is concerned, the demand for lower and lower fares (and higher and higher fuel prices) has a cost and it comes right out of the employee's pockets. My company's management team continues to pay itself generous "performance" cash bonuses and the stock price is up a little.

Illegal and legal immigration has long been a cheap source of labor in this country and it's not about to end just because a few concerned citizens are patrolling the Arizona border. $10,000 vs. $1,000 -- you make that choice every day.

"Buy American" means that your money usually pays for unionized labor with healthcare and retirement benefits. It also pays for new pickups, fishing boats, vacations, college tuition, four-bedroom houses, a musclecar or two in the garage, etc., etc. But, Americans apparently have been speaking with their wallets and purses in recent years and the result is a continued high demand for ever-cheaper products and services. As America "Wal-Mart-izes" the ripple will be felt across the economic spectrum. As American's pay goes down, so does its spending power. Pretty soon that Hispanic illegal immigrant guy asking $1,000 to dig a hole in your backyard is the only choice you'll be able to make.

Oh, as one of the things I've had to cut back on because of my pay cut, I had to stop taking my 5 year-old son to the barber shop for $16 haircuts every few weeks. I now cut his hair in the kitchen with a $15 haircut kit that paid for itself the first time I used it. My barber's wife actually got a bit angry that I am cutting my son's hair. But, my barber buys a new car or truck every six months or so and has moved into three different houses in the seven years I've known him. Think of me as an illegal immigrant barber getting around the high cost of American barbers.

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
I find it interesting that people with little understanding of the demographics or topography of a place like New Orleans would post a letter from Michael Moore to express their dissatifaction of how the hurricane disaster was managed.[ QUOTE ]


I am very intimate with the goegraphic dynamics of the region,but thanks for the condescending overview.Perhaps you should re read that one paragraph from which you gleaned I was pro.. Moore?

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe instead of whining or pointing fingers you could send a check to the Red Cross or Salvation Army to help.[ QUOTE ]


Exactly,and what I felt was a glaring omission in his letter..but he did have room for Cindy.


[ QUOTE ]
Do really believe first of all that it's either edifying or constructive to post a letter from someone who loathes the Bush administration as an objective analysis of how the serach/rescue/recovery issue was handled?[ QUOTE ]


Yes, both edifying and constructive,because it clearly illustrates the man's political agenda.His callous,glib spin shows absolutely no class while people are still dying by the hour.A real man would have waited till at least the situation stabilized,but hey strike when the iron's hot and let's throw the race card in for good measure.

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of politicizing such a monumental tragedy why can't people just try to help make a difference?[ QUOTE ]


See above

[ QUOTE ]
Or maybe we should try and prove that George Bush was the sole instigator behind Katrina because (as announced by a particular rapper last night on an NBC celebrity fundraiser)he doesn't care about blacks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I checked bullets,and extreme weather don't discrimnate but something tells me they would not be sniping dustoffs in Kennebunkport.

[jfkheat]

It seems that a lot of people want to point fingers at Bush and the Federal government for their slow response to the mess in New Orleans. I agree that the response has been slow but what did the Louisiana local and state governments do to prepair for this? What have they done to help after Katrina hit? From what I have seen, not very much. The New Orleans Mayor and Louisiana governer are as much or more to blame as anyone else. Mississippi and Alabama were hit very hard too but you don't the same things happening there that are happening in in New Orleans.
James

[whitetop]

I think the biggest lesson to be learned from this whole deal is NEVER rely on the government for your protection and NEVER give up your guns. This is a perfect example how thin that "blue line" actually is.

PC term for looters= "Undocumeted Shoppers"

Keep your powder dry;
whitetop

[TDW]

Why are they shooting the cops? I see where 30% of the NO police dept. has quit. Was watching an interview with a bunch of cops and they were fired on. Makes no sense to me.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
what did the Louisiana local and state governments do to prepair for this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy answer NOTHING!

[ QUOTE ]
The New Orleans Mayor and Louisiana governer are as much or more to blame as anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely correct!

You build a city below sea level that in theory will withstand a catagory 3 Hurricane (wrong thinking there in the first place) only to have a catagory 5 Hurricane barrel down on you, you also get a couple days heads up and you do NOTHING??


Instead of sending in 400-700 buses two days AFTER the hurricane why not send them in 2 days BEFORE the hurricane??

I feel for everyone affected by this disaster and believe that more could have been done before Katrina unleashed her wrath.

Rick H.

[NapsterNova]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand his [Bush's] logic in the border area especially

[/ QUOTE ]

The Hispanic illegal immigrant basically has none of that high-overhead stuff, just himself and his family to feed and a one-room apartment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same is true with the Irish when they immigrated to the U.S. they worked 18-20 hour days for just a few dollars a week. Many died one the job. In particular the construction of the I&M canal. This is the canal that connected Lake Michigan to the Mississippi and Illinois rivers. It's funny, my grandma tells me stories of how she had to learn English when she came from Italy, there weren't exactly signs in every language or press "1" for? I&M Canal (http://www.canalcor.org/hisbuilding.htm)
Just a ramble

[RichSchmidt]

The fact is that the vast majority of what happened here can be attributed to the ignorance of the people who live in these areas.They were given a fair amount of warning,and the chose to do nothing.We get a lot of crap about how poor they are and how they couldnt afford to leave town,but the fact is hat even celebrities and wealthy rsidents of N.O. stayed behind because they thought they knew better,or they didnt want to sit in traffic or whalk or whatever.It was the popular opinion that this was going to blow over.If all of those who could have left had done so,the rescue workers would have had a fraction of the job that they currently do,and their efforts would have been focused on getting the truly handicapped and unable out of the disaster.Instead they are spending the bulk of their time airlifting out the otherwise able bodied people who own cars and gas cards and should have ben out of there over a week ago.While all of this is happening,the real sick and handicapped are dead inside their homes where nobody will see them until after all able bodied poeple are rescued off the rooftops.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are they shooting the cops? I see where 30% of the NO police dept. has quit. Was watching an interview with a bunch of cops and they were fired on. Makes no sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Lawnessness (Sp?)..Amaizing to see, Seeing people taking shoes and food I understand, seeing the idiots stealing the Plasma tvs and stereos while wading through 5 feet of water is beyond belief. As the greatest country in the world we have some serious questions to ask ourselves here.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
we have some serious questions to ask ourselves here

[/ QUOTE ]
"....did I fire 6 shots or only 5 ? ...In all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. Being that this is a 44 Magnum,the most powerful handgun in the world and can take your head clean off...you've got to ask yourself 1 question...do you feel lucky...well....do ya punk ? " http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Donutblue]

Glad to see the Media doing interviews. Think they may have a satallite phone or some grub to hand out. Hey, how about the interviews -- family members looking for each other, aunts, uncles, children. --- Haven't seen any interviews with some concerns for fellow co-workers ????

[KnoxvillePig]

In my opinion, whether you are a President Bush supporter or a "fat" Mr. Moore lover really does not matter and has no bearing as to what happened in New Orleans.

First, I really want to know why this whole ordeal is being turned into a racial thing. Could we at least wait until we rescue a few people before this crap started. I'll agree that the govermemt's response was maybe (1) day slower than it should have been, but please keep in mind that this is the first time that FEMA has ever had to deal w/ a natural disaster of this magnitude on American soil.
How about giving them a little freakin' time to assemble their efforts.

Second, the liberal media needs to stop turning this into a black and white issue. I was wondering when this crap would start. I get so sick of hearing about this black and white racial discrimination Bulls*@t that I could Fu#@*ng scream!! If you actually think that the government did not respond as quickly because most of the victims were black, then you are indeed a weak minded idiot.

Everyone was warned about the impending danger and had ample opportunity to evacuate. I'll agree that there were some people who did not have the ability or the resources to get out, but for the most part people were just too
Got Damn ignorant to realize the danger. On second thought, maybe when the government has taken care of them for generations and they just don't give a rat's ass what happens because the government will take care of that too.

Finally, I'll tell you why they are shooting at police officers and emergency responders and why they are raping innocent women and children. The reason is because they are common thugs. It's funny how something like a disaster brings out the true colors in people. Why do you need to steal a plasma TV, a dozen leather jackets or a new Cadillac in a time of desperation?? Is this to feed your kids?? Hell no!! You have ceased the opportunitry for capital gain and are showing your true colors as a common criminal.

Shoot all the F*#@ing Looters and that problem will stop. You can then get to more important duties such as rescue operations.

Several of us have been blessed. Some of us have spent more money on a car than some people have paid for a home and that is nobody's business but yours. Please just remember all the innocent people who need America's help in New Orleans.
I have volunteered my services and will probably be sent within the next couple of weeks to help in relief efforts and to restore order.

I'll ask you, Where will "fat" Mr. Moore be during these people's time of need? Will he be pitching in to help the innocent find food, water and shelter or will he be stuffing his fat face w/ another meatball sub inside his $3 million dollar mansion while playing armchair quarterback to something he has no clue as to what is really going on?

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Knoxville

---------------------------------


1969 Camaro RS/SS L-78

[Dave Rifkin]

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion, whether you are a President Bush supporter or a "fat" Mr. Moore lover really does not matter and has no bearing as to what happened in New Orleans.

First, I really want to know why this whole ordeal is being turned into a racial thing. Could we at least wait until we rescue a few people before this crap started. I'll agree that the govermemt's response was maybe (1) day slower than it should have been, but please keep in mind that this is the first time that FEMA has ever had to deal w/ a natural disaster of this magnitude on American soil.
How about giving them a little freakin' time to assemble their efforts.

Second, the liberal media needs to stop turning this into a black and white issue. I was wondering when this crap would start. I get so sick of hearing about this black and white racial discrimination Bulls*@t that I could Fu#@*ng scream!! If you actually think that the government did not respond as quickly because most of the victims were black, then you are indeed a weak minded idiot.

Everyone was warned about the impending danger and had ample opportunity to evacuate. I'll agree that there were some people who did not have the ability or the resources to get out, but for the most part people were just too
Got Damn ignorant to realize the danger. On second thought, maybe when the government has taken care of them for generations and they just don't give a rat's ass what happens because the government will take care of that too.

Finally, I'll tell you why they are shooting at police officers and emergency responders and why they are raping innocent women and children. The reason is because they are common thugs. It's funny how something like a disaster brings out the true colors in people. Why do you need to steal a plasma TV, a dozen leather jackets or a new Cadillac in a time of desperation?? Is this to feed your kids?? Hell no!! You have ceased the opportunitry for capital gain and are showing your true colors as a common criminal.

Shoot all the F*#@ing Looters and that problem will stop. You can then get to more important duties such as rescue operations.

Several of us have been blessed. Some of us have spent more money on a car than some people have paid for a home and that is nobody's business but yours. Please just remember all the innocent people who need America's help in New Orleans.
I have volunteered my services and will probably be sent within the next couple of weeks to help in relief efforts and to restore order.

I'll ask you, Where will "fat" Mr. Moore be during these people's time of need? Will he be pitching in to help the innocent find food, water and shelter or will he be stuffing his fat face w/ another meatball sub inside his $3 million dollar mansion while playing armchair quarterback to something he has no clue as to what is really going on?

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Knoxville

---------------------------------


1969 Camaro RS/SS L-78

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN!

[SamLBInj]

We have become a country of blamers, whenever disaster strikes there will always be somebody blaming somebody else, in New Orleans case you did not need a degree in rocket science to figure out that a storm blowing 150mph+ carrying 20 foot high storm surge waters into an area 17 feet below sea level would create a few problems. Every time I go there and watch the ships cruise by above me I knew eventually this day would come, not a matter of if but when.
So now there is a major problem and we have ole Jesse Jackson on his soap box saying its a racial thing and we have Michael Moore saying its a political thing in reality its a stupidity thing. Im not trying to be harsh but if you were too ignorant or stupid to get the hell out of there then dont complain that you had to spend a week on your roof or up in some tree. You knew it was coming and you knew you had time to get out. Better safe than sorry, just get in your car or on a bus to Oklahoma or where ever and go for a ride till its over. Im sure theres a few who needed real help, but the majority who stayed were either curious, stupid or both.
Im interested in seeing if they rebuild the city below sea level again or try to do it right and fill it in then rebuild.

[Kim_Howie]

I will be 55 this month and the civil engineer down are about the same age. They went tru the 1969 storm and knew that would again happen, but did they build for this?? HELL NO they sat back and did nothing. Hey when you stand back there and notice that ships are above you, maybe you could get wet!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif P.S. F%#@ michal moore!!!

[SamLBInj]

I live on an Island north of Atlantic City, We had a storm in 1962 that almost wiped us out.
You can not build or remodel a house here unless you put all living space and mechanicals above the elevation 10 mark, which basically means 10 feet above sea level. and all if not most must be on pilings set at least 20 feet in the ground.
If we get a storm like that you will see a bunch of houses sitting way up in the air, if they survive that is..
New codes as of Nov. last year are now for 110mph which would still not be good enough if a storm like Katrina hit.
If one comes Ill be in Nevada watching it on tv..

[BARN FIND]

[ QUOTE ]
I live on an Island north of Atlantic City, We had a storm in 1962 that almost wiped us out.
You can not build or remodel a house here unless you put all living space and mechanicals above the elevation 10 mark, which basically means 10 feet above sea level. and all if not most must be on pilings set at least 20 feet in the ground.
If we get a storm like that you will see a bunch of houses sitting way up in the air, if they survive that is..
New codes as of Nov. last year are now for 110mph which would still not be good enough if a storm like Katrina hit.
If one comes Ill be in Nevada watching it on tv..

[/ QUOTE ]

TYBEE ISLAND, GA is the same way. The last time a hurricane looked like it was going to hit us we loaded the SUV with clothes, our photo albums and put my SS Camaro on the trailer and headed North to a friends house in Augusta, GA. 90% of the people on Tybee stayed to "ride it out"...nuts! My mother in-law lives in the house now...I took my family and moved north (TN).

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]

It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!
Yours,
Michael Moore


[/ QUOTE ]


This is how uninformed people are regarding this subject. From an article in todays Chicago Tribune.

Money and transportation -- two keys to surviving a natural disaster -- were inaccessible for many who got left behind in the Gulf region's worst squalor.

"It's a different equation for poor people," explained Dan Carter, a University of South Carolina historian. "There's a certain ease of transportation and funds that the middle class in this country takes for granted."


Jack Harrald, director of the Institute for Crisis, Disaster and Risk Management at George Washington University in Washington, said but the government spent more time and money preparing itself -- rather than communities -- for disaster.

"All issues were known," said Harrald, whose institute had been scheduling a series of emergency planning community meetings through a partnership with the University of New Orleans. "But it was still a work in progress. ... There's enough blame to go around for everybody."

The AP analysis showed:

* Median household income in the most devastated neighborhood was $32,000, or $10,000 less than the national average.

* Two in 10 households in the disaster area had no car, compared with 1 in 10 in nationwide.

* Nearly 25 percent of those living in the hardest-hit areas were below the poverty line, about double the national average. About 4.5 percent in the disaster area received public assistance; nationwide, the number was about 3.5 percent.

* About 60 percent of the 700,000 people in the three dozen neighborhoods were minority. Nationwide, about 1 in 3 Americans is a racial minority.

* One in 200 American households doesn't have adequate plumbing. One in 100 households in the most affected areas didn't have decent plumbing, which, according to the Census, includes running hot and cold water, a shower or bath and an indoor toilet.

* Nationwide, about 7 percent of households with children are headed by a single mother. In the three dozen neighborhoods, 12 percent were single-mother households.

"It's the same people who don't have the wherewithal to get out of Dodge," explained National Guard Lt. Col. Connie McNabb, who was running a medical unit at the besieged convention center in New Orleans.

The disparities were even more glaring in large, urban areas. One of the worst-hit neighborhoods in the heart of New Orleans, for example, had a median household income of less than $7,500. Nearly three of every four residents fell below the poverty line, and barely 1 in 3 people had a car.

[Chris396]

Why didn't the government get food and water and medical personnel to the superdome? That is inexcusable in my opinion. In understand that they couldn't get all those people out of there. Blame everyone you want but as Bush said before his first term. My administration will be accountable. However nothing is ever his fault and no one is ever held accountable for mistakes. He's a small man filling a large roll. The president of the United States can't say, "I want food and water down to those people NOW!"

I have to say as a working class guy I have seen so many silver spoon guys rise way above where they should be. There are so many mediocre people in high places.

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we have some serious questions to ask ourselves here

[/ QUOTE ]
"....did I fire 6 shots or only 5 ? ...In all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. Being that this is a 44 Magnum,the most powerful handgun in the world and can take your head clean off...you've got to ask yourself 1 question...do you feel lucky...well....do ya punk ? " http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Oh Bob......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif If we lived closer we could be REALLY dangerous! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't the government get food and water and medical personnel to the superdome?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because the manpower to do it is in a far away place risking their lives to make sure the worlds supply of cheap oil doesnt get into the wrong hands....
If Kuwait or Saudi Arabia were hit by such a disaster we would have been there with bells on within hours maybe even minutes...there is no lucrative contract to be had by Halliburton to get supplys into the superdome.
I am betting that there were choppers taking people to the off shore oil rigs faster than getting food and water to the Dome.
Face the facts, Our country needs oil more than poverty stricken people
Its not a racial thing, its a money thing.
Now we know, its up to us, the common folk, to come to the rescue.
Hey where is France in all this? New Orleans is almost a province of France, they should be helping out huge but I havent heard anything yet. Did they surrender already?

[ANDY M]

France responded to our request for aid, and the French are helping.
Where are Exxon, BP, Shell, Sunoco, etc. Not one oil company has publicly offered ANYTHING. They feel that they are the victims here, yet for all of their profits they contribute nothing.

[Kim_Howie]

Just like most of your movie stars!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
Just like most of your movie stars!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Kim. Where is that Liberal Hollywood bunch, like Streisand, Whoopie, Tim Robbins, Susan Surandon? Don't hear a peep from them. I better stop, before I go into a political rant! Nice talking with you at the Reunion Kim!

[jfkheat]

Actually, Exxon has donated $2M and BP donated $1M. Here is a site that show some of the major companies that have donated.
James

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/fortune500/firms_hurricane/

[Kim_Howie]

Tony I had a great time talking with you. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[Belair62]

hmmm...Mr T...another trouble maker....had to keep my eye on him too.

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
hmmm...Mr T...another trouble maker....had to keep my eye on him too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you kept both of your eyes on me Bob. Had a great time bs'in with you!

[Late BrakeU2]

Bottom line is some people chose not to heed the gravitas of the warning,and are dead because of laziness.where I live you don't get that option with earthquakes.These blowhards can pontificate all day assigning blame,but in the end the bigger picture is history will relate that Katrina was not an anomoly,as much as a harbinger for the future of "normal" tropical cyclonic weather.Blame it on those aerosol hair spray cans yo momma used for her beehive back when your 69 was rolling down the line-the earth is in a paradyne.. we have pretty much poisoned it since the industrial age(did you know they are furnishing welding glasses to people in the highest elevations in peru because they are going blind from a hole in the ozone?)This was a perfect storm,was it the only one?
http://www.weather.com/newscenter/tropical/?from=wxcenter_news

[Belair62]

Same here...no really...I trust ya T...

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
(did you know they are furnishing welding glasses to people in the highest elevations in peru because they are going blind from a hole in the ozone?)

[/ QUOTE ] Oh Jeez...now we are going to start seeing companies "outsource" their welding to Peru...synergies or core competencies or something..

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmmm...Mr T...another trouble maker....had to keep my eye on him too.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe you kept both of your eyes on me Bob. {edit}

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm....I did notice Bob getting kinda googly eyed when you were around, "T" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Nice meeting up with you again. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
did you know they are furnishing welding glasses to people in the highest elevations in peru because they are going blind from a hole in the ozone?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Im sure the space program has had little to do with puching holes in the ozone layer...These guys find that same little hole each time they come and go into space http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Now I get to have a bunch of unidentifiable objects in my coffee grounds because some bean picker in Peru forget his damn welding goggles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I get to have a bunch of unidentifiable objects in my coffee grounds because some bean picker in Peru forget his damn welding goggles http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Sorry about your taxi ride Sam.

[Jeff H]

Michael Moore could have sent in busses to help evacuate the people but he chose not to. The mayor of NO could have asked for busses to help evacuate people but he was too busy running to higher ground to save himself. The governor of Louisiana could have asked for help evacuating people but she didn't either. They knew 2+ days ahead of time that it was going to be a real close hit to NO. The levees should have been reinforced years ago to handle a category 5 storm but NO chose to spend the money they were given elsewhere. Michael Moore could have helped reinforce the levees but he didn't. Troops being abroad have nothing to do with what happened here. NO and the state of Louisiana had no central command set up in case a hurricane hit. So who was supposed to organize the relief effort? The federal gov't couldn't have done much more than they did in the first couple of days because there was no central command to communicate with. This disaster is the fault of the city of NO local gov't and blame should not be passed on to anyone else. Michael Moore should spend a couple of nights in a flooded NO house, I'm sure we would all appreciate it if he did. I'm sick of these self-righteous "celebrities" who never have anything to offer before an event occurs. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif I applaud Sean Pean who jumped in to help rescue people. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Going forward, NO should not be allowed to rebuild anything that is below sea level, that is the situation that created this disaster, not global warming, George Bush, Iraq or poverty.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
I applaud Sean Pean who jumped in to help rescue people. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Going forward, NO should not be allowed to rebuild anything that is below sea level, that is the situation that created this disaster, not global warming, George Bush, Iraq or poverty.

[/ QUOTE ]
The only ones to blame are the city planners who built this place 18 feet below sea level and the ding dongs who decided to live in the place, years ago there was another place like this, it was called ATLANTIS, Gee anyone been their lately?
A Big http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif to Sean Penn!
In the end we will all be paying for this mess, can you say federal flood insurace program, id like to say thanks to all my buddies up in the hills of Montana someplace for the cheap $300.00 premium for my multi million dollar flood insurace policy. THANKS!

[Kim_Howie]

AMEN http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

I think it's spelled, Michael "Manure"......

wilma

[amuseme]

Sean Penn took along his personal photographer(and a leaky boat!), typical..." we've got to help these people, how do I look?". Anyone ever seen ACTUAL proof that we're screwing up the ozone?

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
Sean Penn.............."how do I look?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Sean, but you really don't wanna ask that question! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[Canucklehead]

I get pi$$ed when i hear the americans complain about they're "high price" of gas becouse of Katrina. I live in an oil rich province and my priemier was asked by bush to double our oil output to help with this crisis. I see prices in the states are averaging about $3.06 a gallon and they're complaining!!!!. Right here at home where the gas is made we pay (with the exchange and the litre to gallon conversion made) on a normal day $3.62 a gallon, and now becouse of katrina we are paying an average of $5.21 a gallon. Which since we did'nt have a storm and the gas is made here, how does that equate. Well becouse of the terrific support bush showed us when our beef producers were starving when mad cow hit us, (1 case by the way and 3 cases found in the states) and Canada lost billions in lost cattle revenue, and lets stick on the soft wood lumber tariffs that Bush will not give on when it's against the free trade act, i could go on with the list of how we get worked over, well our priemier said NO!!

[Canucklehead]

Where's all bushes buddies???, the billions they make off of north america every year you think that they could offer a little more that a few million. Thats a days interest for them, how about a few hundred million!!!, park a few of the weekender yaughts out in the harbour to help out with some of the relief work, like that would really hurt them. ...........oh ya thats right poor people don't buy gas!!

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]
Right here at home where the gas is made we pay (with the exchange and the litre to gallon conversion made) on a normal day $3.62 a gallon, and now becouse of katrina we are paying an average of $5.21 a gallon. Which since we did'nt have a storm and the gas is made here, how does that equate.

[/ QUOTE ]

May be it's an excuse by the Canadian oil companies to jack up the price? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's all bushes buddies???, the billions they make off of north america every year you think that they could offer a little more that a few million. Thats a days interest for them, how about a few hundred million!!!, park a few of the weekender yaughts out in the harbour to help out with some of the relief work, like that would really hurt them. ...........oh ya thats right poor people don't buy gas!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoken like a True "French" Canadian........If only World Politics and Policies were that simple......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[whitetop]

Everyone, don't worry about all this. Oprah arrived on the scene so we'll have her wisdom to straighten things out down in NO.

She said more people should open up their homes for these people. (Notice though she is not opening up her 4 empty mansions to the "refugees"-You have 5 homes Oprah -can only live in one at a time). Typical elite-do as I say but not as I do.

I'm also waiting for her to give away another bunch of Pontiac G6's out of the goodness of her heart. Of course GM actually gave away all the cars but who cares about the little details anyway.

[KnoxvillePig]

[ QUOTE ]
Sean Penn took along his personal photographer(and a leaky boat!), typical..." we've got to help these people, how do I look?". Anyone ever seen ACTUAL proof that we're screwing up the ozone?

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN!!!

Im glad most people can see through these shallow celebrities. It is all self serving publicity stunts.
Take the cameras away and I bet Penn, Winfrey or Clooney wouldn't pull your or my ass out of a mud puddle.
By the way, I thought Sean and Susan Sure-is-dumb were still on a "Fact Finding Mission" in Iraq.

Please guys do everyone a favor and go back to Hollywood.
Haven't the people of New Orleans already suffered enough?

Knoxville

[Canucklehead]

Spoken like a True "French" Canadian........If only World Politics and Policies were that simple......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Westeners don't like French Canadians!!!!

[jfkheat]

Check out this article that was posted on Team Chevelle. There is a lot of truth in it. It is a long read but worth it.
James


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State

By: Robert Tracinski

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.
The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story: "Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....
"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' " The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome? Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

Sherri figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)
What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.
No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans.

And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

[TDW]

I think Robert the Reporter is a pretty smart man.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]

Spoken like a True "French" Canadian........If only World Politics and Policies were that simple......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Westeners don't like French Canadians!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool!!!!!!!!!

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Robert the Reporter is a pretty smart man.



[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.......Someone with common sense who knows how to call the Kettle Black......I'm sure the "Reverend" Jesse would not agree........Imagine that......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Gonna take a Mango break.........

[tom406]

All this talk is diverting attention away from that chubby, egocentric jerkoff who spreads disinformation and lies for political gain- you know, Karl Rove.

As for Michael Moore, to say he's a no credibility celebrity who shouldn't be shooting his mouth off is sort of ridiculous. He's a celebrity BECAUSE he shoots his mouth off about hot button social issues. Nearly all of his movies (save one crappy comedy called Canadian Bacon), have been about stirring the pot and shining a light on sociopolicial issues that he wants discussed. If a semi-literate hack like Sean Hannity can babble on nightly and call that his "job", then Michael Moore should have his say as well. In this case, his "letter" is a bit too clumsy and blunt, but I believe the sentiment is real.

While the images and tales of crime were shocking, most of the desperation I saw was from a lack of shelter, food, and water. That and the difficulty of moving and caring for the elderly. Sure everyone should have evacuated voluntarily, but realistically, no car + no money = no leavng. And theres always going to be elderly folks stubbornly staying put, as anyone who's tried to get the car keys away from or convince their aging parents to go to assisted living can attest.

I think there's race and class issues at play, but mostly I think it came down to the fact that those who were left were politically invisible. They weren't active enough to make their plight known while policies were formed, and weren't noticed in the aftermath until all hell broke loose.

Whether you think its formed by a defective welfare state or the greed of the haves keeping the have-nots down, few would dispute that there is a bubbling undercurrent of poverty, desperation, and rage that comes to the surface with frightening speed when the veneer of society cracks. Whether its the LA riots, the WTO riots, blackouts or this, I'm genuinely troubled by the violence and lawlessness that erupts almost immediately. Whatever the cause, I think we have to find a solution, as it will surely corrode the society my children inherit.

As for the President, I believe that the co opting of the National Guard and its resouces to fight that misbegotten Iraq war "on the cheap" has come back to haunt him. (2008 election can't come soon enough for me. I'll leave it at that.)

Anyways, kudos to all that have sent support to the Red Cross and others. We donated to the Red Cross prior to SCR8, and are waiting to see who is most effective in the "recover and rebuild" phase and will send money then as well. If anyone finds an organization that seems to be really effective at getting people back on their feet, into homes, and on with their lives, post here or feel free to send me a PM.

Respectfully,
TOM

[kwhizz]

I think what you are seeing is the end result of a couple generartions of ACLU and MTV mentality....It's not a simple fix and I think it's only gonna get worse......

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Bring back Commando Cody, Boston Blackie, and Superman

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, kudos to all that have sent support to the Red Cross and others. We donated to the Red Cross prior to SCR8, and are waiting to see who is most effective in the "recover and rebuild" phase and will send money then as well. If anyone finds an organization that seems to be really effective at getting people back on their feet, into homes, and on with their lives, post here or feel free to send me a PM.

[/ QUOTE ]
After delivering a load of stuff in our trailer yesterday, I had a chance to talk to a couple of the folks spearheading the effort in that area, and they explained that even the Red Cross has such an enormous amount of red tape that things move at a snail's pace...and this type of thing is old hat to the Red Cross. These folks have like 200+ refugees in a town of only 1800, and would've had more had the Red Cross "approved" one of the church's sanctuary...the Red Cross told them that since the bathroom wasn't directly adjacent to the sanctuary (it was down the hall) that they couldn't host any families...sounded a lot like a HUD inspection, not a relief effort. But anyway, they said the church decided to work *bypass* the Red Cross as the refugees just needed SOMEWHERE to go and having to walk down a hallway to a bathroom was their least concern. I was extremely pleased to hear that a couple of the farmers in the town had hired a couple of the refugees to help them get back on their feet, a trucking firm in the town was sending 10 of them to truck driving school, and all of the restraunts in town had agreed to hire as many folks as were willing to work...all from a town of 1800. Folks are pouring into all of the surrounding church camps here in our area, so the relief effort is gonna hit a lot closer to home than most people ever thought...

I'll withhold my thoughts on Michael Moore, as the focus needs to remain on those helping and those needing help...

[TDW]

Rob...Good job on the help you are providing. I will also hold my thoughts on MM. I live in the Town he has trashed. By the way, he is not from Flint. He is from Davison, a rather nice suburb of Flint. His own hometown refused to honor him in any way.

[Belair62]

These folks probably could have used a decent mayor who had some type of plan or the brains to come up with one...IMO

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
These folks probably could have used a decent mayor who had some type of plan or the brains to come up with one...IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Clear, Consise, and Logical..........I Agree with BelAir

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Post #200

[Schonyenko2]

The sheriff from Scott county and 6 deputies returned from the NO. area today. Sheriff Conard is intelligent, consise, articulate, and well versed in emergency management. He's also a Republican, and I've voted for him more than once. He said there is virtually no real organization. The local sheriff actually ran the feds off as they could not make any decisions. He said people have, and are dieing because of the lack of a comprehensive plan. He said "elected officials from the local level to the federal level should be held accountable for this mess."
I do not understand how in post 9/11 this could happen. This could have been a dirty bomb, or a biological assault. I have to think the confusion would have been the same.
There's a protocal that happens in emergency management, to say nothing of local and state mutual aid agreements.
Local calls county, county calls state, state calls fed. Contingency plans are implemented and should be backed up with redundent plans to cover problems, or redirect help.
Now someone , or everyone, dropped the ball.
And there may be 10,000 dead Americans, not poor people, not black people, not white trash people,not elderly folks who couldn't evacuate, not folks living in gated communities, not Republican, not Democrats. Americans. Our people.
Ken Schoenthaler, Mayor, City of Donahue
DVFD, fire fighter, EMS

[Chris396]

A friend of mine from Alabama is having a rough time with FEMA

**************************************My huge gripe right now is that the Feds not only have no plan to feed them, they have no plan to get them here. We're willing to go to Baton Rouge and get them. We have buses and CDL drivers. We even have police escorts lined up.

We have shelters ready to feed them and care for them. We have Doctors ready to provide medical care. We have grief counselors and certified counselors ready for them. We have set up a "Love Mart" supplied with everything they might need.

What we don't have is a permit from FEMA. One of our local circuit judges is beating his head against a wall of bureaucratic stupidity trying to get the permit. Everything is ready if the government will get out of the way and let it happen.

I'm worried that they will suffer down there when there's a good place for them here at our Park. Our governor actually bought the trailers with Alabama money. The Feds are just being an obstacle. That's all that they're doing. Email to your congressman would be appreciated.

If any of you do want to help, United Way of Marshall County is a fine organization. Anything given to them right now will go into our relief effort, but ear mark it "State Park relief" just in case. Our Church association was way out in front with our distribution channel, so the other agenices are joining us. Their address is 705 Blount Avenue, Guntersville, AL 35976.*********************************

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
These folks probably could have used a decent mayor who had some type of plan or the brains to come up with one...IMO

[/ QUOTE ]
How about the head of Fema? Gee whiz, looks pretty bad down there, Let me know if anybody calls in case they need any help http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Belair62]

Odd that you would need a permit to help people..

[SamLBInj]

Anybody see that town in Mississippi that was built to 200mph wind codes? entire town is completely gone with only a tiny part of one single house left. This is where the eye went through. they said 20'+ storm surge followed by a bunch of tornados and then the back half of the hurricane, absolutely unbelievable to see that. We are building for 110mph here and now im wondering why even bother after seeing that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[Canucklehead]

I'm worried that they will suffer down there when there's a good place for them here at our Park. Our governor actually bought the trailers with Alabama money. The Feds are just being an obstacle. That's all that they're doing. Email to your congressman would be appreciated.
[/quote)

That must be what all those trailers i saw on the news were for, i just caught the back end of the story and they were talking about all these trailers sitting there going to waste as buracratic balony was making things difficult.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Odd that you would need a permit to help people..

[/ QUOTE ]
You need permits for everything,Try getting a permit to build a tiny dock or bulkhead, the feds take for ever to complete the paperwork. we spend more time getting permits, meeting with the DEP and EPA, getting inspections,Meeting with inspectors, getting all the surveys, engineering and flood elevation certificates than we do building the house, it has added 2-3 months time on a new house. First timers are amazed at the process and red tape..

[ANDY M]

The Truth is out There--But "The Media" cannot find it.

This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Island, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit:

I think all of Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.
On Friday night before the storm hit, Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NO(New Orleans) AA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 8ft.waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before
midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved
yet.
After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.

After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the Governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national
disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid
before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal
government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the
city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.

[SamLBInj]

What they should be doing is building a bunch of temporary housing units and camps, small buildings, tents, ect. They have the manpower, think of how many people they could put to work and good use doing that...oh yeah, we will have to wait 6 months to get the permits..

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships.

[/ QUOTE ]
How about the millions that was spent on a 5 year study of the levee's to decide if they were sufficiant enough. I love those studys,engineers are bigger crooks than lawyers.

[70Z]

People waiting for permits to help in a situation like this are actually part of the problem not the solution. Absolute http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif that anyone would let something so trivial stop them. That judge sound be sh*t canned. Sounds like an excuse for non-action to me, but then again I've never been one to wait for someone else to do something for me.