69 Camaro COPO on Ebay [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

cars

09-18-2005, 07:30 AM

Let me set the story straight. I am the owner of the COPO on e-bay i bought the car just the way i got it added ,Im not trying to fool anyone I know the car is real, as for the motor, i was told it was the real deal, after talking with people i have just found out it could be a restamp if it is someone did a great job, but it was not me this is how i got the car. I DO NOT DEAL IN CLONE CARS. and for those that say they know me thats BS also im not out to fool anyone they can come look at the car any time they want. the guy that says he has the original motor offered it to me for $10.000 now he wants $20000. i want $70000 for the car. but he won't sell the car to no one else unless he can buy the car.

cars

09-18-2005, 07:34 AM

sorry ,he won't sell the motor to anyone else unless he can buy the car.

Belair62

09-18-2005, 07:39 AM

Thanks for coming on...always good to hear 2 sides....

cars

09-18-2005, 08:10 AM

IM NOT OUT TO LIE TO ANYONE ABOUT THE CAR I JUST BOUGHT THE CAR AND THEN STUMBLED INTO A BEES NEST ON THE MOTOR ISSUE. IF SOMEONE CAN HELP ME WITH THE TRUTH PLEASE DO, TALK IS CHEAP I NEED PROOF AS FAR AS THE MOTOR IS, OR IS NOT REAL.AND AS FOR THE GUY THAT SAID HE WOULD NOT SELL ME HIS gto AT ANY PRICE (1) HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW ME AND SECOND WHAT FOOL WOULD NOT SELL A CAR AT ANY PRICE SAY1 MILLION $$$$$$$$ NOW WHO IS THE IDIOT. i HATE GUY THAT TALK SH--.

Charley Lillard

09-18-2005, 09:43 AM

Cars... go to this thread. A guy inspected the engine 10 years ago and it had your vin. His main beef with you is people are telling him that you are telling them his is a restamp. Why would he stamp a engine over 10 years ago with a vin to a car that he knows nothing about ? If you post pics of your engine stamping we will probably be able to tell it is bogus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...e=0&fpart=3 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=copous&Number=157096&page =0&fpart=3)

cars

09-18-2005, 07:08 PM

Im not saying he restamped anything, what people must understand is i bought this car with this motor after i listed the car, is when i got hit with all the motor ? i BUY AND SELL MUSCLE CARS THAT ARE REAL, I DO NOT LIE TO PEOPLE ABOUT CARS . They are more than welcome to come look at my cars or send someone out to look at them. I just know what im told when i buy the car. and as for me buying a car with no cowl tag and selling it as an SS thats BS because i would never buy a chevy camaro with out one thats like having no title. and i never said i had any one verify the car because i have not. I talked with Edd Kunnen and he said if i brought the car to him he would intertain the thought of look at it. but he does not go look at them anymore,and as for Mr Lopata, he has never helped me with the car. so lets end the BS.I love muscle cars I just wish people would tell me the truth when i buy them. Because I do not know everything just what im told. this has been a great learning experence.

Hotrodpaul

09-18-2005, 07:40 PM

Can you post a pic of the trim tag? The body build seems a little out of sequence. I have an original X22 car with an 04C build date, 634XXX Vin and 319055 Body Sequence number. The car listed has a 641030 VIN which is a week or two later with an earlier Body Build # 292789. With the VIN listed, the body should have a 04D to 05B build date listed on the trim tag. I would check the rivets closely for a swapped trim tag. Could this be a normal production tolerance?

Paul
69 Camaro SS L78 M21 4.10's
70 Camaro Z28 M40

COPO

09-18-2005, 09:54 PM

Many of the COPO body #'s are out of sequence.

69L72RS

09-19-2005, 08:29 AM

As a courtesy I did offer the engine to him at $10K (what I had to invest to get it). He declined. The price went to $20K when the first intersted buyer contacted me about me restamping my engine. After a few more people told me I was referred to as a restamper, the engine became no longer for sale. But it was available for inspection.

Tonight I made an offer of $45K for the car to Jim.
The car at present is an X44 body with:
1) NO paperwork
2) a RESTAMPED engine
3) an INCORRECT transmission
4) an INCORRECT rearend
5) in need of a $30K to $40K restoration

I already have a large investment in the engine, rear, and tracking fees for the car. Lot of good my trackers turned out to be.

I think my offer for the car is fair for its current state/condition.

Does anyone think my offer is out of line?

I even offered to let Jim use my engine as evidence in a fraud suit, if he wanted to try to get his money back from the person he bought the car from. He declined that offer earlier.

Mr70

09-19-2005, 08:35 AM

Both of you need to post a close up picture of the VIN stamping on your respective blocks.

gemleeus

09-19-2005, 03:33 PM

if you don't lie then, what about the post that says you stated cuneen and lopata verified your car and lopata states thats absolutely not true? this happens so much, you people list your cars as being the real deal and then you get caught with your pants down and come to the different boards trying to defend your case ranting and raving about this and that and before its over your made to look like fools. I've read your posts. everything appeared to me like you may have also been the victim of deception, until I read the one about lopata and cuneen verifing your car, after that all bets were off. at least it appears in this case you have a real copo car just not the real powertrain.

cars

09-19-2005, 05:08 PM

You better learn to read, I NEVER said they verifed anything because THEY DID NOT, so have someone read it to you again, its come to my attention last night that I my have bought a car with a restamped motor, and who did it, I don't play that game. I AM TRYING TO FIND OUT THE TRUTH TODAY.

COPO427

09-19-2005, 07:41 PM

All these guys making clones will one day soon be eating their words and loosing their shirts and that includes duplicated VIN's in different States/Countries. Just like in the Terminator movie. Judgement Day is coming. That's all I have to say.

SamLBInj

09-19-2005, 08:03 PM

Hopefully one day those chevy numbers will turn up like the pontiacs...there will be lots of newly changed phone numbers and cars for sale cheap...
Have you driven a clone...lately..

Lynn

09-19-2005, 08:05 PM

Jim (cars):

Hope you understand the scepticism on this board. Lots of knowledgeable guys, and there have been frauds uncovered before. Some obvious, some not so obvious.

Hopefully we can look at all the FACTS and then each person can come to their own conclusion. Looking back at your first auction for this car, I don't see where you used either Ed's name or Lopata's name. However, your auction does state:

"I have spoke with the COPO pro on this car, gave him all the # and he said it was the real deal."

Most folks would take that to mean Ed, or at least someone in the know. As far as any restamps, there have been requests for pictures of your engine pad and partial VIN as well as the one owned by 69L72SS. Think all of us would like to see those pics as well as Trim Tag pics.

As to whether you actually accused anyone of restamping a motor to match this car, I have yet to see a copy of any such email. If anyone has such evidence, let's see it. Getting information second and third hand isn't very reliable. Stories get changed. If in fact you did accuse 69L72SS of restamping his engine without knowing the history, and I am not saying you did, that would sure put a dent in the old integrity. If it turns out you purchased a restamped block, then I would think you would want to pursue that, and at the very least, expose the fraud who sold it to you. We would all like to avoid those guys.

Hopefully all can keep an open mind until more facts come out.

Just my opinion.

Lynn

COPO427

09-19-2005, 08:18 PM

Another thing, I'd be holding off on buyng any US Muscle Cars especially the high dollar ones "COPO, sYc, ZL1, L78, LS6, LS5, L88".

My .02

gemleeus

09-19-2005, 09:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I won't be the one reuniting the engine and the car.
I can't justify the numbers he is placing on the cars value. I spoke to the seller tonight about buying the car or selling him the engine.
I offered him the engine and the BE 0424 rear and he didn't seem interested in anything but the contact info for some possible documentation on the car.
He stated that someone has offered him 90K+ to end the auction early. He didn't appear to care that the engine he lists as "original" is a restamp and didn't see anything wrong with the way it was listed. He says he is ending it early Thursday.
He also stated that the car was verified by a "Mr. Lopata"
and a "Mr. Cuneen". He said Tim had him just about completely disassmble the car to verify it was original.

Is a "base" COPO project with a restamped block/wrong trans/wrong rear worth 90K? Just curious on unbiased thoughts from other members. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

are you not the person stating this information in a phone conversation?

Lynn

09-19-2005, 10:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I won't be the one reuniting the engine and the car.
I can't justify the numbers he is placing on the cars value. I spoke to the seller tonight about buying the car or selling him the engine.
I offered him the engine and the BE 0424 rear and he didn't seem interested in anything but the contact info for some possible documentation on the car.
He stated that someone has offered him 90K+ to end the auction early. He didn't appear to care that the engine he lists as "original" is a restamp and didn't see anything wrong with the way it was listed. He says he is ending it early Thursday.
He also stated that the car was verified by a "Mr. Lopata"
and a "Mr. Cuneen". He said Tim had him just about completely disassmble the car to verify it was original.

Is a "base" COPO project with a restamped block/wrong trans/wrong rear worth 90K? Just curious on unbiased thoughts from other members. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

are you not the person stating this information in a phone conversation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure whom you are directing your question towards, but I believe Eric (the one who has the engine) made that statement.

Lynn

Charley Lillard

09-20-2005, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing, I'd be holding off on buyng any US Muscle Cars especially the high dollar ones "COPO, sYc, ZL1, L78, LS6, LS5, L88".

My .02

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

gemleeus

09-20-2005, 02:09 AM

yes, the phone conversation qoute is between the man with the engine and the man with the car, where as earlier the man with the car posted he never spoke or came in contact with tim lopata or ed cuneen, but the phone conversation clearly states lopata "having him almost completely disassemble the car to verlfy its authenticity" someone is clearly not stating the truth. if the phone conversation in the post is not with the man that owns the car presently and posting in this forum i'am truly sorry for my misunderstanding.

Belair62

09-20-2005, 03:18 AM

Jeff H

09-20-2005, 03:19 AM

I think the Canadians are about to invade us and take all our oil! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Belair62

09-20-2005, 03:21 AM

Thats what I read too Gem....I think the consesus is the car is a real COPO but which motor is legit...

09-20-2005, 08:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As a courtesy I did offer the engine to him at $10K (what I had to invest to get it). He declined. The price went to $20K when the first intersted buyer contacted me about me restamping my engine. After a few more people told me I was referred to as a restamper, the engine became no longer for sale. But it was available for inspection.

Tonight I made an offer of $45K for the car to Jim.
The car at present is an X44 body with:
1) NO paperwork
2) a RESTAMPED engine
3) an INCORRECT transmission
4) an INCORRECT rearend
5) in need of a $30K to $40K restoration

I already have a large investment in the engine, rear, and tracking fees for the car. Lot of good my trackers turned out to be.

I think my offer for the car is fair for its current state/condition.

Does anyone think my offer is out of line?

I even offered to let Jim use my engine as evidence in a fraud suit, if he wanted to try to get his money back from the person he bought the car from. He declined that offer earlier. [/quote

Eric, I don't think your offer is out of line at all, he wants to sell, you want to buy. Has he given you a concrete price? Hopefully the two of you can work a deal.... After looking at the pictures I thought it was mandatory that all copo's came with power front disc brakes. I don't see a power booster on that fire wall.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

gemleeus

09-20-2005, 02:27 PM

i thought they all came with power brakes also. no booster but it does have a power brake pedal pad. wonder what happened to the booster?

COPO427

09-20-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing, I'd be holding off on buyng any US Muscle Cars especially the high dollar ones "COPO, sYc, ZL1, L78, LS6, LS5, L88".

My .02

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is and I have said it before, I think to get the prices down everyone needs to stop buying all muscle cars/parts until the prices become affordable to us. I don't know about you, but I don't have a money tree and I want a nice 70 Chevelle SS 396 and can't afford the high dollar cars IE LS6, L78.

SamLBInj

09-20-2005, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing, I'd be holding off on buyng any US Muscle Cars especially the high dollar ones "COPO, sYc, ZL1, L78, LS6, LS5, L88".

My .02

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is and I have said it before, I think to get the prices down everyone needs to stop buying all muscle cars/parts until the prices become affordable to us. I don't know about you, but I don't have a money tree and I want a nice 70 Chevelle SS 396 and can't afford the high dollar cars IE LS6, L78.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SamLBInj

09-20-2005, 06:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing, I'd be holding off on buyng any US Muscle Cars especially the high dollar ones "COPO, sYc, ZL1, L78, LS6, LS5, L88".

My .02

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is and I have said it before, I think to get the prices down everyone needs to stop buying all muscle cars/parts until the prices become affordable to us. I don't know about you, but I don't have a money tree and I want a nice 70 Chevelle SS 396 and can't afford the high dollar cars IE LS6, L78.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gifI sent this same memo to all the brokerage houses back when I was trying to get Microsoft for 10 bucks... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Astock

09-20-2005, 06:46 PM

Sure,I would love to see the value's of my cars go down,so you can buy a $20k '70 396 Chevelle.
Anything else we can help you out with?

Lynn

09-20-2005, 06:50 PM

Two words:

Supply

Demand

The End

70Z

09-20-2005, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two words:

Supply

Demand

The End

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, supply and demand isn't part of the program up to the north, is it? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

COPO427

09-20-2005, 09:19 PM

We even got screwed on the Free Trade deal with the US on cars. If your bringing a car from the US to Can, don't lie about the purchase price. They'll ask you twice and each time you lie an additional percentage gets added. One guy I heard bought a hemi car and ended paying an additional 40% on top of his purchase price. The border called the seller for the price he paid. The car was mint.

Belair62

09-20-2005, 09:34 PM

Wow...can they do that ?

SamLBInj

09-20-2005, 10:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow...can they do that ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Eh, why not, its just another third world country taking advantage of its poor ole peasants http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

COPO427

09-20-2005, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow...can they do that ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell ya what. You try it and let us know how you make out. Since you live in the States, tell them your delivering a car to Can to someone. I bet we see a http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif going the the other way.

Late BrakeU2

09-21-2005, 12:41 AM

More like no supply,and high demand.Correct cars are like prime homes in desireable areas..while there may be a slight correction looming,those who are calling for a bursting bubble in either market might be holding their breath.
JMHO

Kurt S

09-21-2005, 01:21 AM

I have a pic of Eric's engine pad (he sent it to me back in April). It looks legit comparing it to other pads.

Cars,
Can you send a pic of your pad to me? [email protected]

AutoInsane

09-21-2005, 01:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
while there may be a slight correction looming,those who are calling for a bursting bubble in either market might be holding their breath.
JMHO

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! Tell that to the guy who paid over a million for a Ferrari Daytona in the late 80's... the car is a $200k car today. remember when the Japanese investors were buying all the best Ferrari's at any price? History repeats itself. These prices are not sustainable.
If your retirement depends on the car in your garage.... sell into the frenzy!! If you are a multimillionaire and it is just wonderful that your Yenko is worth over $200k sit and watch. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

COPO

09-21-2005, 02:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If your retirement depends on the car in your garage.... sell into the frenzy!! If you are a multimillionaire and it is just wonderful that your Yenko is worth over $200k sit and watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very sound advice!

Late BrakeU2

09-21-2005, 02:56 AM

Ha! Tell that to the guy who paid over a million for a Ferrari Daytona in the late 80's... the car is a $200k car today. remember when the Japanese investors were buying all the best Ferrari's at any price? History repeats itself. These prices are not sustainable.
If your retirement depends on the car in your garage.... sell into the frenzy!! If you are a multimillionaire and it is just wonderful that your Yenko is worth over $200k sit and watch. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Respectfully have to disagree.I also remember when 365 coupes were 40k,two years later the were 200k(circa 1981)Obviously the Japanese contributed greatly to an inflated market(but they also bought the hell out of U.S. real estate in the late eighties and look what happened five years later..)but clearly they were cash fat and did not do their homework.

You can make the argument that these valuations are not sustainable-If I had a nickle for every post I've read on what someone sold a COPO or Yenko for five,ten,twenty years ago I could own one.We all have had one(or five) that we wish we never had let go for that rediculous price back when..to think they are going back to those valuations is optimistic at best.People want the cars that bring back fond memories of times past,but indeed it is the millionaires that they are changing hands to and financially solvent folks don't have to depend on retirement from a car-hard cuts soft,everytime.

SamLBInj

09-21-2005, 03:26 AM

Basically we are at a point where there are a million dealers, grabbing every rare car the can get there hands on and supply has become short. Look at the 69 Z/28's for example. A few dealers put them up on ebay and there are at least 20 bids driving the prices into the 40's so all the others watch that and follow, then Joe Schmoe see's that decides to keep his car due to its value creating even more of a shortage or he decides to cash in and prices his car the same because why should he give it away when he sees other ones selling at big bucks.
I believe the dealers with the help of ebay have created the shortage and until there is less of a demand the prices will steadily increase. You also have to figure in the cost to restore a car as that also puts a value on what a car is worth. Maybe in 20-30 years when all the baby boomers have relived there youth and have traded in there muscle cars for flying nuclear powered wheel chairs the prices might go down...maybe..

COPO427

09-21-2005, 05:02 PM

Sure people watch the prices on Ebay, but you have to remember, alot are bogus bids, especially when their the sellers friends helping to increase the price. So in reality, those are not the real prices. Put it in the paper and see what you get. That's the real deal.

SamLBInj

09-21-2005, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put it in the paper and see what you get. That's the real deal.

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesnt work either, Try and call a couple hours after the paper comes out, anything good is gone and most likely already on Ebay for double..

Belair62

09-21-2005, 06:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Put it in the paper and see what you get

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark....when was the last time you checked your paper and found anything...it's pretty rare. You may see ads in Hemmings. But you won't find anyone giving stuff away anywhere.Maybe newspaper ads up there are still viable ?

Jeff H

09-21-2005, 08:16 PM

I just saw an ad 2 weeks ago for a 69 Z28 matching #'s 302, 4.10 rear, older 80's restoration that still looked very good for $23,500. So I called and of course it was sold. It was some small town used truck place that had it listed.

427TJ

09-21-2005, 08:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe in 20-30 years when all the baby boomers have relived there youth and have traded in there muscle cars for flying nuclear powered wheel chairs the prices might go down...maybe..

[/ QUOTE ]

The Boomer's kids will have grown up hearing "This car's worth more than our house!" a thousand times. Believe me, when daddy croaks and the kids start fighting over the car ($$$), they will have remembered well what they think the car should be worth: more than the house.

Time is also a problem. The more time that passes, the farther we get from when these cars were plentiful, and the higher the prices climb. Small corrections yes, but the overall trend is upward.

Blame it on the rich guys. For example, as '69 Z/28s become more desireable, the rich collectors need to seperate themselves from the average '69 Z owner. To do that they seek near-mint, original, unrestored examples with rare options like RS, JL8, etc. The price for those examples climbs out of sight as the rich guys fight for them. The owners of the common cars see what the rich guys are willing to pay and the common cars become more expensive.

Oops, there goes that pesky capitalism again!

On the other hand, blame goes also to sellers who know rich guys are out there waiting to drop impressive amounts for certain cars. Remember: "Greed is good." Greed for the rarest example of a certain car, greed to sell that car for the highest price attainable. (See also: Barrett-Jackson.)

Maybe we're all to blame?

"I have seen the enemy and it is us." Can't remember who said that but it's pertinent here.

He who hands over the biggest bag of cash for a car wins. He who receives the biggest bag of cash for his car wins. So maybe it's win/win? Unless you aren't able to participate, then it's lose/lose?

Whatever the cause, prices, overall, tend to go up as these battles rage.

stikbo

09-22-2005, 07:47 AM

Looks like the seller ended the auction. Must have found his buyer.

Fhakya

03-28-2006, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Greed is good." Greed for the rarest example of a certain car, greed to sell that car for the highest price attainable. (See also: Barrett-Jackson.)

Maybe we're all to blame?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a loose quote on the 'Gordon Gekko' (Michael Douglas) share-holders speech from the movie 'Wall Street'. As per that...yep, it's that simple...supply and demand.

But this thread is somewhat pertinent to the latest 69 COPO Camaro thread.

-Mark Holman