View Full Version : Original Goodyear Poly glas tires
69SSRSL89
10-05-2005, 11:53 PM
I have a set of original Goodyear F70 14 poly glas tires that I picked up earlier this summer and thought that they where used reproductions. I was thinking of using them to cruise around on but I would hate to waste a set of original dated tires. They are in good used shape. They are not perfect but they are still nice and have a good amount of tread on them. Does anyone know what the value on something like this would be and if there would be any interest in them? I'm not looking to make a killing off of them. I'd just rather sell them to someone that wants the dated originals than wear them out. I didn't post this in the for sale section since I'm unsure of the value and also interest. Thanks for all of you help in advance. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Jesse
CamarosRus
10-06-2005, 07:32 AM
I'd like them for my 69 "recreation"
Chuck S
Charley Lillard
10-06-2005, 07:38 AM
Chuck...Polyglas is wrong for a 69 Camaro. You need Wide Tread.
CamarosRus
10-06-2005, 08:00 AM
Charley, I understand that, but my 69' being a FAKE, didnt think it would matter a lot.....I'm TOO cheap to spend $600 or whatever on NEW repops.....
Could YOU clarify which ORIGINAL cars did receive F70x14 Polyglas, as those tires seem to aappear often
Thanks, Chuck
Chevelles for one,and other GM A-bodies.
Charley Lillard
10-06-2005, 08:11 AM
I would think they would be worth more than a repop.
hvychev
10-06-2005, 08:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm TOO cheap to spend $600 or whatever on NEW repops.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Really? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
69SSRSL89
10-06-2005, 04:40 PM
I don't know a lot about how the dates break down but I talked with someone who knows a more about them and he had an original tire that we could compare them against. They still have the little stickers on them along with DOT molded into the tires. Which reproduction wouldn't have either of these things. Here are the numbers that are molded into them. AUNCL8DS - (B38, H38, B37). I'll try and post a few pictures of the tires later today. Jesse
69SSRSL89
10-06-2005, 07:17 PM
It looks like the pictues that I have are to large to post on this thread so, I will post them in my gallery so you can view them from there. Jesse
camaromb
10-06-2005, 07:54 PM
The Goodyear DOT information I have shows:
AU -16th week 1970
NC - Jackson plant
L8DS is application/size, F70-14.
Mark
69SSRSL89
10-06-2005, 08:14 PM
Mark, thanks for the break down on the DOT information.
I posted a few pictures in my gallery, but I could only get two to upload. If you guys would like to see a few more maybe someone could PM me and I could email them to you to get them resized and posted in the thread. Thanks guys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Jesse
William
10-07-2005, 01:24 AM
Polyglas tires became optional for 1969 Camaros as of April 1, 1969. It was such a PR fiasco that DeLorean mentioned it in his book about GM.
Charley Lillard
10-07-2005, 01:33 AM
I have never seen a documented 69 with a polyglas tire. I have never even seen what appeared to be a orig Polyglas tire on a 69 rim. I have seen plenty of Wide Tread and Wide Tread GT's though.
William
10-07-2005, 05:30 AM
I have shippers' copies for ZL1 N650643 & COPO N661189 showing they were built with "5PL4JD F70X14 FG BELTED WH LET TIRES"
GTO_DON
10-07-2005, 06:05 AM
How much are these tires?
Tommy_Mathison
10-11-2005, 01:32 AM
In Jerry MacNeish's 1969 Z28/ COPO fact book there are numerous pictures of 69 Camaros with Goodyear Polyglas tires on them. Original or not, just thought you might like to take a look as alot of Jerry's pics are vintage 69. Who knows? Thanks! Tommy
Charley Lillard
10-11-2005, 01:52 AM
I just looked through Jerrys book and i only see a couple of pics of Polyglas tires on cars and none of them are vintage 69 pics. There is a pic of jerrys 67 Z on page 98 with Wide Tread GT's on it. On page 73 there is a vintage pic of a Z with MFG plate and it has Wide Tread GT's.
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:45 PM
Here are a few pictures of the tires for you all to check out. As for a price on these tires. I'm not really sure of the value and I was looking for an idea from someone on the board here to tell me what they may be worth. I would have posted these pictures sooner but I needed to get them down sized. Anyway take a look at them and let me know what you think.
Jesse
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:46 PM
more pictures
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:48 PM
again
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:48 PM
and another
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:49 PM
and another picture
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:49 PM
more tires
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:50 PM
another tire pic.
69SSRSL89
10-11-2005, 05:51 PM
last one
Verne_Frantz
10-11-2005, 06:02 PM
In case anyone's interested, those are the exact tires I had on my new '69 Road Runner. Not to take them away from anyone here, but you might consider making them known on some mopar site too.
Verne http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
camarojoe
10-11-2005, 06:26 PM
There were no Polyglases on Chevrolets until the 1970 model year. Wide Tread was the only white lettered Goodyear used in 69.
Belair62
10-11-2005, 06:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I have shippers' copies for ZL1 N650643 & COPO N661189 showing they were built with "5PL4JD F70X14 FG BELTED WH LET TIRES"
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think William just fell off the watermelon cart...how would you account for this statement ?
camarojoe
10-11-2005, 07:18 PM
That statement doesn't tell me they using Goodyear Polyglas tires. No mention of brand, model of tire, etc... nor does it say what they were belted with. Show me an original 1969 photo of a 69 Camaro with Polyglas tires...
The 69 Indy 500 was in May, LATE May... yet from every photo I have ever seen, all cars at the track with goodyears on them, including the actual pace cars wore Wide Treads, NOT polyglas. You would think if they were actually installing these tires in April, the Indianapolis pace car would have them.
The build sheets do not always indicate the actual tire that came on a car. I have a build sheet for a '67 Corvette with redline tires on it, the car did not arrive with these tires on it as per the window sticker. The final list of actual options is reflected on the window sticker.
My '69 Pace Car that I bought from the original owner came with Wide Tread tires. The dealer/owner tried to get the factory to put Polyglas tires on the car and they would not as per my conversation with him. When I bought the car from him in 1981 I asked why the spare and the tires on the car were different and he told me that he took the crapy original tires off the car immediately and put on the good Polyglas tires. The actual tires on '69 Pace Cars have "Speedway Special" or something like this on the back side.
Supercar_Kid
10-11-2005, 08:00 PM
I have several vintage photos that were taken on race weekend at Indy in '69. Not a Polyglas tire on a Pace Car in sight...but a few are definitely identifiable as having wore small lettered Firestone Wide Ovals. (Not to be confused with the large lettered "Wide O Oval" lettering introduced for '70) Perhaps that's what the shipper sheet is referencing on that ZL-1 and COPO. Could have also been Firestone Sport Car 200s...does anyone know if they were they fiberglas belted? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/97280-PaceCarsCropped5.jpg
William
10-11-2005, 09:28 PM
By virtue of the paperwork trail so near and dear to all of us there is no question fiberglass belted F70 x 14 RWL tires were a late option on 1969 Camaros.
The PR mess I mentioned involved Uniroyal. Firestone and Goodyear were also suppliers to Chevrolet and certainly could have supplied these tires. Goodyear Polyglas tires were available in '69; they were std on the '69 Hurst Olds.
We may never know for certain. The original owner of ZL1 #68 must still be around. Ask him what was on the car.
camarojoe
10-11-2005, 10:22 PM
I'm not arguing that belted tires were available in 69, nor am I arguing if Polyglas tires were produced in 69, as its quite known they were used by Mopar and even other GM divisions... My argument is that you will not find any Chevrolet cars using Goodyear Polyglas tires until 1970.
Supercar_Kid
10-11-2005, 10:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
By virtue of the paperwork trail so near and dear to all of us there is no question fiberglass belted F70 x 14 RWL tires were a late option on 1969 Camaros.
[/ QUOTE ] Were the 1969 Uniroyal Tiger Paws or Firestone Sport Car 200s fiberglas belted or only nylon? I see the shipper references "FG Belted" tires but what says that means they had to be of the Goodyear "Polyglas" variety? This is an interesting debate for sure.
William
10-12-2005, 01:37 AM
As 1969 Camaros were built into the '70 model year I believe it is possible some had Goodyear Polyglas tires just as other '70 models did.
The Sport Car 200 was an odd tire, sold only through Firestones' Racing Division as a friend learned when he cut one on his new Z/28. Both it and the Uniroyal Tiger Paw were cheap bias-ply tires that were gone in 20,000 miles.
"FG belted" does not mean Goodyear. We do not seem to know what it means.
Belair62
10-12-2005, 01:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
5PL4JD
[/ QUOTE ] What does this mean ???
It looks like:
5=total tires
PL4=F70X14 Bias Belted Ply white lettered(This is an RPO code shown not in the 1969 Chevrolet dealer Ordering Catalog,but rather in the 1970)
JD=?
FG=FiberGlass belted Tire
70-SS/RS-L78
10-12-2005, 02:22 AM
These were used on 70 Camaro SS.
I am interested...
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif--There was an article 12/68 in Hi Performance Cars mag covering the test of a New'69 Baldwin Motion Chevelle wearing Goodyears--They said the tires were part of the RPO-F41 Suspension package-----------
Just looking through the 1969 Chevrolet Press kits & Communication kits/filmstrips.
They mention the Polyglas tire and Fiberglass belted Wider tires,but no Goodyear Polyglas white lettered pix or reference.
Only the Goodyear Wide Tread reference & pix as stated earlier on SS cars.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif---Checked the article photos Rick--The tires are Goodyear wide treads----- http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif--%$#&^(*Wisea$$) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
mrrec
10-12-2005, 06:07 PM
We've talked about this before. GENERALLY speaking, fiberglass belted WHITE LETTER tires were NOT available in model year 1969 on Camaros and Chevelles. There is much evidence to support this including lack of the option listed on order sheets, no known period or advertising photos of belted tires, etc. Also of interest is that the early 1970 Chevelle ads show non belted tires even though the belted tires were the only white letter tire available on the 70 Chevelle and Camaro. That supports the lack of belted tire use on 69 Chevelles and Camaros.
In my opinion, belted white letter tires should not be considered correct on any 69 Chevelle or Camaro unless you have documentation to prove otherwise for YOUR car. I've talked to Camaro judges who say that the Polyglas white letter without the size in white letter are judged as OK for 69 Camaros - an error, I believe. There are, however, several build sheets of COPO cars that list belted white letter tires and that is certainly believable by me, but that doesn't mean that these tires were generally available for 69 Camaros and Chevelles. They were not.
The preponderance of the incorrect application of Polyglas on 69 Camaros and Chevelles has snowballed by folks not doing the research and relying on the catalogs stating they are correct for 196X to 197X and looking at other RESTORED cars. It is one of my pet peeves to see a beautifully restored COPO with wrong Polyglas on it.
The small "Wide Oval" lettered Firestones were NOT belted and are not reproduced. They are correct for 1969. The larger "Wide Oval" lettered Firestones ARE belted and were available begining in the 1970 model year. They are reproduced but are NOT correct for 69. The tread pattern on these two tires is different.
The Uniroyals were not belted in 1969, but were in 1970. The white letters did not differ on the belted vs. non-belted tire, but there is black lettering on the tire to indicate it is belted.
Goodyear should read "Wide Tread" in white letters and not "Polyglas" (unless you have one of the couple of COPOs that indicate PL5 RPO). Don't confuse the "Custom Wide Tread" black lettering that is on the Polyglas tires with the "Wide Tread" white letted, non-belted tires. The tread pattern on these two tires is different.
Forget all of the above if you aren't talking WHITE LETTER for 69. Belted red stripe and white stripe were available and sold on Camaros and Chevelles.
Polyglas is Goodyears trademark of fiberglass belted. It is a contraction of Polyester (the cord material) and Fiberglass (the belt material). Other terms used interchangebly include "glass belted", "belted", "FG belted" and others.
Even the car magazines got it wrong (often) in 69 describing "those great Polyglas Goodyears" when the photos clearly showed Wide Treads!!
Finally, Chevy was one of the last to offer WHITE LETTER belted tires for the muscle cars. Polyglas was launched by Goodyear in mid 68 and the other makers followed very quickly. Most everyone - even AMC - offered belted white letter tires on muscle and pony cars in model year 1969.
Dave
camarojoe
10-12-2005, 07:05 PM
Great post Dave... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY
10-12-2005, 07:13 PM
This is an idiot question, but what is the difference between a belted and non-belted tire? What is the significance of fiberglass vs. other materials used in the tires?
GaryH
10-12-2005, 08:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is an idiot question, but what is the difference between a belted and non-belted tire? What is the significance of fiberglass vs. other materials used in the tires?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not an idiot question at all as I was wondering the same thing.
I've been looking for some 15" polyglass white letter repops but all I see listed are 14"s. Are they making them in 15?
mrrec
10-12-2005, 10:13 PM
Thanks, Joe.
Marlin, Gary: Bias ply tires have "plies" or cords running from bead to bead on an angle or bias (not at a right angle to the bead as in a radial). Belted tires have a "belt" (picture a wide, flat belt running radially around the tread of the tire) over the cord plies and under the tread. Do a Google search for "tire construction" and see what pops up.
Belted tires first used fiberglass belts, then steel belts became prevelant in the mid 70's on radials. There is a real mix out there nowadays. Incidentally, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a steel belted bias ply!
Kelsey, the distributor of vintage Goodyears, has F70x15 Polyglas and Wide Tread and F60x15 Polyglas (and E70x15 for the Z - the E70s for the Z28 weather Goodyear or Firestone, were not belted. Hard to figure, I know). In the Firestone brand, add G70x15.
And Gary, the Vette guys say the Polyglas is wrong for ANY Vette through 72. You need Wide Teads to be correct. But if you must have Polyglas, and you don't want repros, I have a set of original 1972 (I think) dated F70-15 Polyglas that are very good to mint.
That's enough, I'm tired (couldn't resist).
Dave
ohhawk
10-12-2005, 10:21 PM
Agree, very informative summary from mmrec. I worked for Goodyear for a couple of years during the early 70s when the Polyglas tires were making their entrance (during the time when Goodyear stores were selling everything including appliances). Most Polyglas tires at the early stage of release were certainly not RWL versions but primarily were black or W/S.
There is alot of misinformation out there as mmrec points out very well. Polyglas became a key ingredient on many Goodyear tires even though they weren't the RWL version that said Polyglas.
As I recall the benefit of fiberglas was in layman's terms to give you more miles from your tire. The two fiberglas belts along with the two polyester (some later used Rayon) gave the tire more stability/rigidity allowing the tread less squirm on the road = more miles per tire. Most mfg's at this stage used a 2/2 design of 2 ply fiberglas and 2 ply polyester. The polyester still gave the tire some give for purposes of riding comfort. An all polyester tire would give an even better ride but less miles per tire. I do remember that the fiberglas belted tires had ongoing problems with "cupping". You had to keep them balanced. Many drivers would come back after owning the tire for awhile and would have the cupping problem and would expect an adjustment for a new tire.....no adjustment would be given for this issue.
Believe you can still get the 15" Polyglas repro tires from Kelsey Tire.
William
10-12-2005, 10:52 PM
FG belted RWL tires are on the April rev of 1969 Camaro Dealer ordering info. That means from about May until the end of production those tires were available.
That spans about 70,000 cars and you know how everyone of them was built. Amazing!!
sixtiesmuscle
10-13-2005, 01:14 AM
Thanks Bill. I guess that ,once again, blows the absolutes that people look for with this stuff. Thanks goodness I was only half way through dismounting all my polyglas. LOL
Supercar_Kid
10-13-2005, 01:25 AM
If there were 70,000+ Camaros running around in 1969 that could have potentially had polyglas tires, how come no one can seem to produce photo evidence of one wearing them prior to 1970? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Stefano
10-13-2005, 01:52 AM
Most of the factory promo materials were of course early production vehicles, which may explain the lack of published photos with the PGs
Keith Tedford
10-13-2005, 02:06 AM
Our COPO Chevelle came with the PL5 option tires and they were the white lettered Uniroyals. I still have the original spare.
Supercar_Kid
10-13-2005, 02:09 AM
I'm not talking PR photos, I'd be happy with a vintage snapshot taken in some proud new owner's driveway, at the dragstrip, dealership, in the showroom, on the backlot, anywhere. If polyglas tires were installed on all these Camaros in '69...someone oughta have a picture of at least one of 'em wouldn't ya say? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
Belair62
10-13-2005, 03:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
someone oughta have a picture of at least one of 'em wouldn't ya say?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe none of those 70,000 have registered yet http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
I'm putting wide whites on all my crap http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
GaryH
10-13-2005, 03:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Gary, the Vette guys say the Polyglas is wrong for ANY Vette through 72. You need Wide Teads to be correct. But if you must have Polyglas, and you don't want repros, I have a set of original 1972 (I think) dated F70-15 Polyglas that are very good to mint.
That's enough, I'm tired (couldn't resist).
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
I was looking for a set of these for a friends car, Dave. I'll pass the info about your tires along and if he is interested I'll let you know. I just spent the last few hours cleaning and installing the white stripe Goodyear Wide Treads that were included with the car when I bought it. After a quick road test of these ill handling beasts I think I'll be in the market for a nice set of 60 series radials http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I can appreciate originality and will toss the Wide Treads on if I have it judged.
Kurt S
10-13-2005, 07:57 PM
I know of at least 6 cars built with PL4 tires, all later cars, starting end of May / June timeframe.
How many pics have we seen of original cars with the original tires? No surprise that you wouldn't find pics of a late production subset of that........
No published production totals on PL4. But they were the most expensive tire option available in 69.
mrrec
10-13-2005, 08:10 PM
I'm not sure if William is taking a swipe at me or not. Regardless, I learn everyday how much I DON'T know. That is part of the quest for knowledge and how we ALL learn. I overlooked the April price sheet revision.
No doubt there are more than the couple of cars with build sheets out there with belted RWL, but because of the lack of documentation (photos, etc.), the late date of the option being available and it's cost, I'll stick to my opinion of GENERALLY, belted RWLs are incorrect for MOST 69 Chevelles and Camaros. Certainly incorrect for any with builds prior to May, right William?
Dave
camarojoe
10-13-2005, 08:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I know of at least 6 cars built with PL4 tires, all later cars, starting end of May / June timeframe.
How many pics have we seen of original cars with the original tires? No surprise that you wouldn't find pics of a late production subset of that........
No published production totals on PL4. But they were the most expensive tire option available in 69.
[/ QUOTE ]
PL4 doen't mean Polyglas though, just means white lettered belted tires, which could be Uniroyals or Firestones. And yes, its surprising to me that no one has ever seen or found a single photograph or solid evidence of a 69 camaro with original polyglas tires on it when they were supposedly available from April until the end of production. I think there are plenty of pics out there of original cars with original tires...just none with Polyglases. I still don't believe there was ever a Goodyear polyglas used on a camaro in 69.
Steve Shauger
10-13-2005, 10:08 PM
My understanding was that PL5 was the standard white lettered (ss/copo)tire in 1969 and PL4 was the optional Polyglas. I have never seen a polyglas on a 69 car but mention is made on the released ZL1 documents regarding car #68 being so equipped. Were there any 15 inch polyglas tires available for 9737 equipped cars or Z28's, and what was the code. You would think, cars designed with handling in mind would have the polyglas tires available.
BTW, this is a great informative thread... keep up the great work http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Supercar_Kid
10-14-2005, 12:09 AM
I just think that if polyglas tires were supposedly available on every 69 Camaro built after May of '69 then they shouldn't be that terribly hard to photo document.
Nearly every other RPO available on a 69 Camaro has been photo documented in a vintage pic at some point on this site or another, with the exception of these polyglas RWL tires. I just think if they were installed in any #'s at all, someone oughta remember their Camaro having them or have the pics to back it up.
I hear where you're coming from Kurt, and understand that not every 69 Camaro got photographed when it was new, but plenty did, which is why we have concrete evidence that some wore Uniroyals, some wore Firestones etc. but none of a Camaro wearing polyglas tires. If it weren't for original pics to document these restored cars and their individuality, they might as well all be wearing Goodyears if you go by the build sheet. JMO
Now...somebody dig out that '69 photo of your Camaro with it's original polyglas tires and we'll all go http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
169indy
10-16-2005, 08:52 AM
'406TOM' hooked me up with a "OLD" tire he had.
Perfect.
http://www.yenko.net/photos/data/500/medium/WIDETREAD_GT.jpg
Stored upright for photo.
Jim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif
Mark_C
10-16-2005, 06:21 PM
Don't look at Pacecars, except for some of the very late ones, for an original picture of a polyglas tire, especially ones that were at the track. Those were all built in February or 69 well before the April 1 announcement of the polyglas availability. If a pacecar came with polyglas from the factory, it would have had to have been a very late April or early May car.
I have them on mine,(see signature link) but I only have them because I stole them on Ebay for about 150 bucks for 5 of them. I don't have any documentation on my car (04L) that would indicate what kind of tires came on it originally though. They just look more vintage on the car than the old BFG Radial TA's it had on it, although they drive like crap.
169indy
10-16-2005, 09:34 PM
All I have is the remains (50%) of the TANK Sheet- Chassis Broadcast Copy found on top of my gas tank.
Tire detail below
http://www.yenko.net/photos/data/500/TIRE_info.jpg
Mark the tires on your car look good. I just switched to some Firestone radials after 20 years of Bias ply redlines and the car is Fun to drive (Safer)!
I put the GYR-WT-GT in as a spare because, It looks great.
I have no vintage pics of MY car and have no information as to what was installed from the factory. If I recall others have indicated that the "Z" wall code was for a White letter tire, just what brand would depends on a lot of factors?
A lot of the advertising for PACE cars shows the GoodYear Wide Tread GT. I realize that all production cars would not be the same.
Hey didn't Steve from the east coast have some great vintage pics of a pace car he has? Maybe a tire shot.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Jim
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