better gasoline?

[tirebird]

The House just passed legislation enabling oil companies to expand and build new refineries. In the proposed law is a provision that may help bring down gas prices to California drivers and drivers of other states. Hopefully, it will bring higher octane gasoline too.

Basically, you know that there are 17 different blends of gasolines for different areas of the nation. When you factor in the seasons, probably multiple number of those 17 gasoline blends. So the proposed law has a clause which says:

"* Limiting anti-pollution gasoline blends to six, from the

current 17";

Those of us in California can only hope for the 93 octane that a lot you have in other parts of the nation.

[Belair62]

There are people out there in Cal who just stopped humping a tree and are going to fight anything to do with gasoline.

[P.J.]

Just a thought!
Why would the oil companies want to build more refineries
when they bought up the compettition a few years back and then closed them down so that they could manipulate the market.Do you remember the 70s gas shortages. I sold my 66
ss chevelle back then because the oil companies told us that there was no more oil remember.It was just a ploy to rape the taxpayers.The goverment is in bed with them
because every gallon of gas sold brings them lots of taxes
the higher the price the more they get.OINK OINK OILNK.
suprss70

[Dave Rifkin]

I was also told that part of the reason for the increase in price is not due to a shortage of crude at all. It's the fact that the refineries can't keep up with demand now that some of the plants were damaged during Katrina and Rita. In addition, I heard that refineries can't just produce 92 octane for the entire country; apparently the fuel blends vary from state to state? Not sure how accurate this information is but there is some talk within the government and the oil companies to allow the refineries to produce one type of regular unleaded, one type of Super; etc. for the whole country without the minor differences for the states that currently require special blends http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[tirebird]

Peter, you're correct. Right now, there are 17 and possibly more different blends of gasoline depending upon air pollution ratings, altitude, season, and location, for different areas of the nation. In California, for example, the gas we have in the Bay Area is different than the gas people in other areas of Northern California get. Plus, the gas I get in Reno cannot be legally sold in Sacramento, or Monterey, or Oakland. So, by limiting the blends to six, the refineries can be more efficient and hopefully bring up the supply. That's the theory. I'm not sure reality will match theory.

[WILMASBOYL78]

As I recall the prices were going up before the hurricane situation. the whole thing is scam and we are willing participants. Gasoline is our national heroin, we just can't kick the habit. We need to drive and won't leave our cars parked in the garage. I worked in a service station in high school during the 73-74 gas crisis. People got in fist fights in the driveway over gas, and it was only 45 cents a gallon!!! It is really frustrating to think about the situation and how little control we actually have.

Hey Karen, where are my walking shoes??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[bertfam]

I find it amazing that 30 years ago we were unloading these "gas guzzlers" becuase gas was at an all time high of .45 cents a gallon. Now that it's $3.00 a gallon, we're buying them back again at unheard of prices!! Does anyone else see the irony in this?!

Ed

[SuperNovaSS]

IF the government is so in bed with the gas companies, then why do they subsidize every gallon of gas that we buy? Bob, they won't stop humping trees in Santa Cruz. There are more hippies here than there were at WoodStock!

Jason

[427TJ]

Don't get excited about gas prices coming down. They might come down a few cents here and there but only to soothe us a little after we've gotten used to the higher price. Over time it's going to go up and up and up. It's gone up what--a dollar in the past 12-18 months? Just let that sink in for a minute and you'll realize what's going on.

They know we need it. They know we can't get it from anyone else. "They" aren't just the Arabs, "they" are the oil companies too.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Over time it's going to go up and up and up. It's gone up what--a dollar in the past 12-18 months? Just let that sink in for a minute and you'll realize what's going on.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Johnny Cat said we paid $1.52/gallon on our way up to SCR7...this year, on our way to SCR8 at the same station, we paid $3.00...

[Jeff H]

The hurricane situation shows that we need more refineries and high gas prices isn't as much to do with the higher price of oil as it is the high demand and low supply of gas. Refineries need to be spread out better so there isn't a major disruption like the hurricanes caused. But how many years will it take to build these new refineries and get them up and running? It won't help gas prices any time soon. With the better computer technology in today's fuel injected cars, we don't really need these blends like we used to for emissions reasons.

[Chevy454]

Here's what makes my head hurt...I can understand the supply/demand thing in regards to the refineries and prices, but the thing I don't understand is the way gas stations themselves play with prices. They seem to raise/lower them at will, regardless if they've gotten a new load. I live in a town of only 600 folks, and we have 3 stations in town...my front porch is literally within 100 yards of one station, and the other 2 are within an 1/8th mile...so I know exactly when they get their loads of fuel. But, their prices rise and fall each time you turn around. I get the fact that if you get a load of fuel and it costs the station *more* than the last load that the end price will have to be adjusted to reflect the same profit margin, even though they have fuel left in their tanks that they may have bought for 20 cents less...and while they're usually slower to react to getting a load of gas cheaper, the converse should be true. BUT, how/why do they get by raising the price when they're working on the same load as yesterday, or last week? Shouldn't the end price reflect the same profit margin? The speculation part of the formula should only come into play at the opposite end of the spectrum in the futures market...am I missing something?

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
But how many years will it take to build these new refineries and get them up and running?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's going to take time is the oil lobby getting the federal government to fund the construction of these new refineries. It'll be spun as a "national security" issue and our tax dollars will eventually go toward building "strategically secure" oil refineries. Yes, big oil is absolutely awash in huge, huge profits, but they are likely unwilling to spend much on refinery construction/upgrading. "Hey, why not have the government build them for us?" Heck, if baseball teams can get city governments to fund new stadiums then why can't the federal government pay for new refineries?

Socialism is for the rich: The gov't bails out big business when big business screws up and/or can't figure out how to profit or compete. "Hey congress, if you don't let that bigger, smarter dog eat me I'll fund your next election campaign."

Capitalism is for everyone else: "You screwed up huh pal? You're on your own buddy. Hey, that's the free market at work. Survivial of the fittest, dog eat dog."

I'd bet the oil executives and their lobbying firms are twisting the s__t out of congress' arm to have tax money fund refinery construction. They just have to figure out how to do it without sparking taxpayer outrage.

[Daves70SS]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's what makes my head hurt...I can understand the supply/demand thing in regards to the refineries and prices, but the thing I don't understand is the way gas stations themselves play with prices. They seem to raise/lower them at will, regardless if they've gotten a new load.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the news media plays a big part in the rapid increase in gas prices from one day to the next. It seems that when they report on the news that there sources have reported that there will be an increase in gas prices when the hurricane hits and it could reach as high as $3 - $4 a gallon, the station owners started raising there prices the very next day.I think if the news media would have kept there mouth shut the prices wouldn't have gone up so soon and as fast as it has and maybe not as high.
Once its reported the station owners think that since the consumer is already prepared for the increase that gives them the ok to raise the prices right away.
Have you ever noticed that when the state or city government says that there going to investigate price gouging at some stations the prices start dropping. I wonder why?

[CamarosRus]

There will be always be car shows, car events, and car collectors, etc........but with gas prices at these levels and rising at a HIGHER rate than the cost of living index....I feel that attendance at ALL shows, tours, auctions, cruise ins everything will go down measurably........
People dont speak out yet publically too much yet, but Ive had several recent phone conversations, where people didnt go to one event or another, due to fueling up their tow vechicles and/or cars.

Chuck S

[Belair62]

It could definitely be a factor...its 55 bucks to fill a crappy Explorer

[tirebird]

Well, to my surprise, it looks like gasoline is not immune from the laws of economics, ie., supply and demand. More people are opting for fuel efficient cars, motorcycles, and scooters for errands and parking their SUV's for use on non-essential chores. Not everyone, but many that I know of.

As far as car show attendance, well, our cars are our recreation. Yesterday, in Alameda, the annual Park Street car show had more than 400 participants,..and not one of them had mileage in double figures. Everyone I talked to was willing to sacrifice a second or third $3/cup Starbucks frappo/crappochino for a gallon or two of high octane. They weren't happy with the cost of gasoline but no one would even think of giving up driving their muscle cars.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday, in Alameda, the annual Park Street car show had more than 400 participants

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta' give a shout-out for Ole's Waffle House (established 1927), may favorite breakfast spot for getting together with my Bay Area car buiddies.

Now back to the topic of better gas.

[ANDY M]

$43.00 to fill up the Camaro today, $3.15/gl for Sunoco 94.
I like to tell people that it'll pass everything but a Sunoco. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
I'm sure glad that I don't live in France! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif