Arnie Beswick's Tameless Tiger on Ebay

[jfkheat]

I just read this on the Performance Years site. This is Arnie Beswick's race car that someone in Greenville SC now has. The seller says he did work on the car and never got paid by Arnie so he is selling the car. Here is the link to the discussion and the auction.
James

http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=456971

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-TAME...sspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1963-TAMELESS-TIGER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ98062QQitemZ45841 88370QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

[firstgenaddict]

I have seen the car at Autograph color and collision numerous times over the years... on Woodruff Road in Greenville. James it is mid way between Laurens Road and Roper Mountain Rd on the Left if you were headed away from Laurens Rd.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Just so everyone knows Arnie's position on this, he is trying to find a way to stop this sale form taking place. He states that he loaned this car, less motor, to this guy to help him get started with his racing. He has attempted to retrieve it several times over the last couple of years, but, was unable to get the guy to cooperate. Of course, Arnie has also been recovering from the terrible injuries he received when his car caught fire. His belief is that the seller made up a bogus bill for work, and, received a fraudulent mechanic's lien. Hopefully, he will straighten this guy out, and, prevent the sale from creating ongoing legal problems for all concerned.

[Belair62]

Was this the car that he had the fire in ?

[sixtiesmuscle]

No, it's not the fire car. It's the car he raced before that one. It's a long story, but, the essence is that the guy repaired Arnie's truck after a collision with a deer while down South. He gave the repaired truck back to Arnie with the statement like "maybe you can return the favor some day". Some time later, he asked to borrow the race car, after he wrecked his own. Arnie agreed, and, after a couple years, asked for the car back. Time went by, and, the car shows up on Ebay. Even if the guy finally decided he wanted payment for the work on the truck, he still can't be granted a mechanic's lien on the race car, can he? My point is that there is no way the guy can have a legally obtained title for this car.

[Belair62]

I havent seen the 64 yet...only remember that 63...that sucks and I hope it gets worked out...

[firstgenaddict]

When I looked at the car the first time... about 4 years ago it had no motor in it... seems like somehting fishy is going on here! Lesson learned... never take a handout... the hand could come back and slap the $#!# out of you.

[Steve_Hoog]

I saw that when it was first posted on PY, I thought it was just another Ebay scam.

Sure hate to hear it's all this complicated, bad deal. Arnie has done so much for the Pontiac world; not matter how this developed, Arnie does not deserve it.

[GM-26]

The seller added this statement to the auction:

On Oct-21-05 at 15:33:19 PDT, seller added the following information:

"THE OPENING LINE OF THE DESCIPTION SHOULD HAVE READ OWN A PIECE OF HISTORY. "FORMERLY" ARNIE BESWICKS' 1963 TAMELESS TIGER. I HOPE THIS WILL CLARIFY OWNERSHIP." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[70CitrusZ]

If Arnies story is true, then that ebay seller is openly engaging in a fraudulent act.
As such, he should be dealt with as a criminal.
I hope he realises that in jail he can't spend his stolen money even if he could keep it.

Even IF he did have a mechanics lien it would be for the truck, and to have that he would need a signed (by arnie) workorder for the car or the truck.
Even then he is only allowed to sell it for what he is owed for work done in his shop.

If I were Arnie, I would simply report it stolen, and let the authorities rain on bubba's parade.

[plumL78]

Being a shop owner there's something fishy going on here. When a shop does a lein sale all owners and lein holders are sent a certified letter from the court and would have had their day in court to contest the shop owners action So he would have known if the guy who has it now did a lein sale on the car.Thats why the court sends those letters to make sure shops are doing it legally. I happen to be doing a lein sale right now and there's no way I could just take some ones car and get away with something like that.I'm not taking sides but if the shop owner didn't do the process then he doesn't have a legit title

[Charley Lillard]

We don't even know if Arnie had a title to the car. How would he report it stolen without a title ? The sellers statement above is very misleading because all he is saying is "formerly Arnie Beswicks". He does not say he owns it so I assume he does not. If I owned it and there was discussion about ownership I would state in CAPS that I owned it.

[Les Quam]

Charley ,do you or anyone else know what state Arnie lives in for jurisdictional purposes?

[ohhawk]

FWIW.....I was at a large regional Pontiac show in the Omaha area this summer where this car was on display. I don't know if it was the 63 or 64 but it was also announced at this show that Arnie was in attendance as well. I had some pictures from this show (including this car) on my webshot page for several weeks but deleted it recently.

I don't know the car or the owner but thought I'd throw this in the mix of discussion.

[Belair62]

He is in Morrison Illinois ...

[Steve_Hoog]

Belair lives in Teauna

[jfkheat]

Here is the sellers story as posted on the PY site.
James

WELL I'VE TAKEN ALL THE BEATING I CAN STAND. I GUESS I BETTER SAY A FEW THINGS WHILE I'M STILL BREATHEING. IT'S NICE TO SEE HOW THE PONTIAC COMMUNITY STANDS BEHIND ONE OF THERE OWN. IF YOU HAVE A WELL KNOWN NAME AND HAVE BEEN RACING FOR FIFTY YEARS YOUR WORD BECOMES THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH AND YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY BECOMES FACT. THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY DOESN'T MATTER AND IF IT DID IT WOULD ONLY BE VEIWED AS A LIE. I THINK A PERSON SHOULD BE GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF A DOUGHT WHEN NO ONE BUT THE PARTYS INVOLVED KNOW ALL THE FACTS. ARNIE HAS A HALO OVER HIM AND I'M AN "ASS HOLE" "I SHOULD BE ARRESTED" "CALL THE FBI". THERE ARE FOUR PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE WHOLE COMPLETE STORY, ME, ARNIE,MY LAWYER, AND OUR MAKER. THERE'S ANOTHER FELLOW OUT THERE THAT I'VE HAD CORRESPONDANCE WITH THAT TELLS ME HE HAS ALREADY BOUGHT THE CAR FROM ARNIE! KNOWONES TALKING ABOUT THAT OR PUTTING HIM THROUGH THE RINGER. ARNIE ATTEMTED TO TELL A PORTION OF HIS SIDE ALTHOUGH VERY VERY DISTORTED SO I GUESS THE GLOVES ARE OFF SO I'LL TOUCH ON A PORTION OF MY SIDE. FIRST LETS GO BACK TO ARNIES STORY AS TOLD TO JIM ZEEK. ARNIE WAS ON HIS WAY TO BUTLERS, NOT AN EVENT, AND HE HITS A DEER, WIPES OUT THE FRONT OF THE TRUCK, TRUE...POKES A WHOLE IN THE OIL COOLER AND TRIES TO TO DRIVE ON TO BUTLERS. BLOWS THE MOTOR. ARNIE CALLS ME TO SEE ABOUT REPAIRS BECAUSE HE HAS ETHER NO INSURANCE OR NOT ENOUGH COVERAGE. (THIS WHAT HE TOLD ME) I DROVE TO BUTLERS TO GET THE TRUCK , ARNIE WANTED THE REST OF THE TRUCK REPAIRED AND PAINTED ALL OVER. ALL THE LETTERING REMOVED NEW TAIL GATE MANY MANY BATTLE WOUNDS. THE DEAL....FIX TRUCK...GET 63..EVEN TRADE. I HAD NOT WRECKED MY CAR AT THIS TIME, THAT WOULD BE A YEAR LATER.FIXED THE TRUCK AND TOOK IT BACK TO BUTLERS! NO CASHIERS CHECK WAS EVER OFFERED.(GLAD TO HERE THIS, THE CHECK CAN BE TRACKED IF THERE EVER WAS ONE) WE ARE SQUARE ON THE 63. HE WANTS A TOTOL RESTORE ON A 69 GTO THAT IS AT BUTLERS. OK, WE LOAD IT AND GO BACK AND DO COMPLETE OVERHAUL ON THE GOAT. TAKE IT BACK TO BUTLERS. ( JIM PUT THE MOTOR IN)ARNIE HAS ANOTHER TRUCK AND A TRAILER HE WANTS REDONE SO HE CAN SELL IT. I TAKE IT BACK REDO IT AND DELIVER BACK TO BUTLERS. NOW HE HAS A STOCK 63 HE WANTS DONE AND I GO CLEAR TO IL. FOR IT AND BRING IT BACK FOR A TOTAL RESTORE. I GOT NOT ONE PENNY FOR ANY OF THESE CARS. NOW COMES THE GOOD PART. LET ME BACK UP A LITTLE... I MET ARNIE IN INDY AND PICKED UP THE 63 TIGER WICH WAS JUST A CHASSIS AND BODY... NO RUNNING GEAR.BACK TO THE GOOD PART..ARNIE WANTS TO BUILD A NEW GRAND AM. HE PICKS WALLEY STROUP TO DO THE JOB AND WANTS ME TO OVERSEE THE JOB. OK ..I TAKE WALLEY THE BODY AND FRONT STRUTS, WICH ARNIE DID SUPPLY, TO GET STARTED AND ARNIE WAS TO SEND WALLEY A DEPOSIT.(ONE THIRD) THREE WEEKS GO BY AND WALLEY CALLS TO SAY NO MONEY YET SO NO START YET. GET THIS, ARNIES PIST! HE'S A LITTLE SHORT CAN I PUT UP THE DEPOSIT? BUMB MOVE, I DO. WALLEY GETS GOING AND IT'S SOON TIME FOR ANOTHER THIRD. ME AGAIN. NOW I'M IN TOO DEEP TO TURN AROUND.THE SHORT OF IT IS $103,000 LATER I'VE GOT A TOP SHELF T/S CAR AND ARNIE HASN'T GOT A DIME IT. NOW, I CAN'T AFORD THIS THING SO I SELL IT AND TAKE A $23,000 LOSS. ARNIE GETS PIST AND TELLS ME HE COULD HAVE COME UP WITH THE MONEY IF HE HAD KNOWN I WAS GOING TO SELL IT!(COULDN'T DO THE DEPOSIT BUT HAD $103,000) THIS IS JUST PART OF THE STORY. THERE WAS MONEYS LOANED FOR OTHER THINGS BUT WE WON'T GO INTO THAT. NOW, AS FAR AS ARNIE ASKING FOR THE 63 BACK... HE DID COME TO MY SHOP AND TELL ME HE WANTED IT BACK, I THOUGHT HE WAS KIDING. THIS WAS THE ONE AND ONLY TIME HE HAS ASKED. THIS WAS THE STRAW THAT BROKE THE CAMELS BACK. I'VE REDONE THIS CAR FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER. I SENT ARNIE A BILL FOR WORK PERFORMED AND HE HAD THE CHANCE TO GET THE 63 BACK BUT REFUSED TO PAY THE BILL SO I WENT THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM. I WOULD WELCOME THE CHANCE TO GET HIS DEPOSITION( WICH MAY STILL HAPPEN) NOW, IF ANYBODY INTERFEARS WITH THE LISTING ON E BAY THEY TO MAY FACE LEGAL ISSUES. I'LL GET DOWN OFF MY BOX NOW AND LET YOU FINE FOLKS GO BACK TO BEATING ME UP. IF ANYONE WANTS TO BLOW HOT AIR FACE TO FACE I'M AT 563 WOODRUFF ROAD, GREENVILLE, S.C.

[Steve_Hoog]

Well that's an interesting story.

Sounds like it all needs to be in a court of law, not on a forum. I'm anxious to see the outcome.

[Charley Lillard]

It is always better to hear both sides of a story and this is a reminder of that. I hope it gets worked out.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
It is always better to hear both sides of a story and this is a reminder of that. I hope it gets worked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I concur (Lawyerese)

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[GRB]

Don't know either, but my money is on the bad grammar repair guy. Otherwise Beswick could easily produce some kind of proof that he is the rightful owner. Of course, I could be wrong.

[sixtiesmuscle]

None of us can know for sure, but, Arnie says that he has the title to the car, and, he was never notified of any lien being filed. I still haven't seen anywhere that the guy says he has a title to the car, and, I asked him specifically what proof of ownership he has. I got no response to that question.

[Steve_Hoog]

I have never heard one single negative thing about Arnie, I suspect and hope he will come out on top of this problem.

[John Brown]

At least in Indiana to get a mechanics lein title you need to do a title search in the four surrounding states and put ads in newspapers before the state will issue a title.

Illinois isn't anywhere near S.C., so if thats the deal a 4 state title search wouldnt turn anything up.

While Arnie is a nice enough guy, he does get into some financial problems at times. His getting badly burned probably didnt help any, that and the passing of Randy Williams (Pontiac collector and really great guy) who was one of his undercover sponsers.

[firstgenaddict]

The fact that ebay hasn't yanked the auction should say a lttle something... when there is a legitimate complaint they usually do not hesitate to pull an auction.

[firstgenaddict]

High bidder has bought 2 neck ties for about $10 each

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
High bidder has bought 2 neck ties for about $10 each

[/ QUOTE ]

And he's been a e-bay member for "3 years 11 months and is from Taiwan" according to e-bay records.

Must want to have the baddest Pontiac in the Far East. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Speedrx]

The item has now been removed from EBAY.

hmmmmm

[musclecarjohn]

...inquiring minds want to know... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif