Ebay "67 Vette L89

[Z28DZ]

FYI

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...584402640QQrdZ1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-RAREST-67-1967-CORVETTE-L-89-RARE-427-435-COPO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6168QQitemZ4584402 640QQrdZ1)

[MosportGreen66]

This is claimed to be one of the original Wingate Chevrolet FSO cars.
It has a chalk markings of "COPO" on the tub which is similar to a '66 COPO I know fairly well.
This is certainly an interesting piece!

[Xplantdad]

When you click on the hyperlink to go to www.67fso.com (http://www.67fso.com) this pops up... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The 67 L89 on ebay.... solid documentation or owner history please. A lot of "could have been's" in the description.... the relevant corner of the tank sticker is missing... Documentation? Provenance? "Wingate series" of cars?? Cars were built from internally generated paperwork, whether it be standard production, copo, or otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Stuart Adams]

Zero miles since restoration. The undercarriage detailing is average at best, that's just me.

[Xplantdad]

It sure looks like it's been driven a bit...eh Stuart? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[TimG]

It's a Nabers of Houston restored car that is supposed to be real. May be a restoration motor, though. The owner has recently (six months ago) sold a block of four '67 Corvettes on ebay, all advertised at the same time, but separate numbers. Two of these were real '67 L89 cars. The yellow/white one that Pro Team has now and a blue/black coupe with the real motor.

[Belair62]

This car is really tough looking....what kind of value do you foresee Tim ? BTW...I met Chris P at Mecum and introduced myself...hadn't seen him in over 30 years...still looks the same !

[Enoch]

Tim is the blue/black car you are talking about the old Bob Rowe car W/AIR-smog?

[Chevy454]

Boy, I just might give my left.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[TimG]

Glad that you saw Chris P. We spent last weekend together in Waco. He's got a line on a nice '68 L78 Camaro and we discussed it quite a bit. It's hard to gauge a value for this car, the yellow/white 67 L89 with a tank sticker and sidepipes sold for about $190,000 in June. I would say that this one is worth more with the unusual characteristics even though they are similar cars, both L89 coupes with restoration motors. I can't remember if the blue L89 has a smog pump or not. I've seen it about five times and don't recall this. It was in Waco for an NCRS meet and right next to my '68 L89 in 1997.

[njsteve]

What is a "restoration motor?" Does that mean they restamped the VIN on another engine to match this car????

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
What is a "restoration motor?" Does that mean they restamped the VIN on another engine to match this car????

[/ QUOTE ]
Restoration motor is a term for Corvette owners to feel more secure about their restamped engine.

I have heard speculations that this car, being a very early '67 car, originally had a 302 Camaro motor in and is not a real BBC car. I do not know much about 67 Vettes... Tim or Jim, do you guys know anything more on this topic?

[Belair62]

Is that similar to a restoration body ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that similar to a restoration body ? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
100% original fully documented number matching reproduction http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[budnate]

truly sad the Corvette guys cant put a dated block in the car and say hey did the best I could, it was gone when I found the car..now they come up with some bs line for restamping blocks and thinking its ok...they have done a great job of taking restos to great levels until this became acceptable in there hobby..this really fries my bvd's there doing this out in the open and saying it's ok...fricken morons!!

[Rick H]

So Bud,.....tell us how you really feel! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Rick H.

[Johnny Horsepower]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

I agree.....down the line it makes these cars ripe for fraud!

[GaryH]

I don't think they are saying it's ok any more than anyone else doing it. They just have "term" for it.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
truly sad the Corvette guys cant put a dated block in the car and say hey did the best I could, it was gone when I found the car..now they come up with some bs line for restamping blocks and thinking its ok...they have done a great job of taking restos to great levels until this became acceptable in there hobby..this really fries my bvd's there doing this out in the open and saying it's ok...fricken morons!!

[/ QUOTE ]

....From the same people that would sue you for using the term "Survivor" to describe any vehicle, person, place, or thing that is not a Corvette certifed as such by Bloomington
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif.

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
truly sad the Corvette guys cant put a dated block in the car and say hey did the best I could, it was gone when I found the car..now they come up with some bs line for restamping blocks and thinking its ok...they have done a great job of taking restos to great levels until this became acceptable in there hobby..this really fries my bvd's there doing this out in the open and saying it's ok...fricken morons!!

[/ QUOTE ]

....From the same people that would sue you for using the term "Survivor" to describe any vehicle, person, place, or thing that is not a Corvette certifed as such by Bloomington
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

amen brother...they need to lay off sniffing resin and come back to earth... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Rick H]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif There you go Bud, that's more like it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif


Rick H.

Now I am going to the garage and work on my gold certified, restoration motor for my survivor Yugo. Anybody have any idea where I stamp the VIN on this motor??

[njsteve]

What's next? The "Restoration Survivor" class. You restore your vette to the point where it looks like a 40 year old car that needs a restoration. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[TimG]

Without numbers on the block, no Bloomington Gold. Without Bloomington Gold, no $$$$numbers. I may hear more about this car today. I had intended to go to Houston with someone buying a '66 L72, but work prevented this. He'll visit with the folks that had resotred the car. The line between real motors and "restoration/restamps" is getting blury. Paperwork and owner history is important.

[olredalert]

NJSteve,

-------Dont confuse the whole bunch of us Corvette guys with one overly anal, overly protective guy that happens to run Bloomington Gold. I know of no other Corvette people that have the same feelings towards the word "Survivor" as he does..........Bill S

[Belair62]

Do they rebody Vettes like they do COPO Chevelles and Yenko Camaros ??? What does Bloomington/NCRS say about this ?

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
Do they rebody Vettes like they do COPO Chevelles and Yenko Camaros ??? What does Bloomington/NCRS say about this ?

[/ QUOTE ]

The process at which a body panel is replaced in fiberglass and metal is completely different. The metal that was used across the board in all metal GM cars is not unique to the make or model. Obviously the shape of the metal is unique to the car. Well, the same cannot be said about the Corvettes. There are very few select outfits that reproduce fiberglass. The biggest producer of reproduction glass today (in proper form) is Corvette Image, and their glass is rather hard to work with. There are other companies who produce 1-Piece Corvette noses. But that is not typical factory production and is frowned upon in the highest levels of judging. The Corvettes were pieced together in numerous phases… front fenders, a top surround and grill support are all held together with industrial fiberglass glue compound. In the rear, the deck lid is pieced together with rear quarter panels and a tail panel. All of the panels are then held together by the metal inner casing also known as the bird cage. One of the main reasons for the lack of appropriate reproduction parts is difference in the production of the glass between today and 40 years ago. The other main reason for this is because of the variations within the fiberglass among the different years. For example, each year mid-year Corvette got a different color fiber glass. 1963-1964 glass is considerably lighter compared to the 1965 glass which has a yellow tint, the 1966 glass which has a grey(er) tint, and the 1967 glass which has a much darker hue to it, almost like a charcoal color. So to answer your question Bob, very few people rebody Corvettes because of the lack of accessibility and also the variation of glass among the years. Corvettes were not mass produced like the family oriented cars in Camaros and Chevelles -- production numbers just reached mid- 20,000s per year for the mid year cars. Another key reason why Corvettes are not rebodied is because original glass is very hard to come by.

Check out the pictures in the next couple of posts. I will further explain what I am talking about.

[MosportGreen66]

Here is a 1965 Corvette 327 car... Look at the difference in colors in fiberglass on this car... this car is a very late production 1965 car.

Also note the thick glue bonding panels together and note the Corvette Image top surround laying ontop of the car. Note the difference in color and texture between the original glass and repop glass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/mosportgreen66/CarFiles343.jpg

[TimG]

Neither Bloomington or NCRS like rebodied cars. If they can prove or detect a rebody you are asked if you would like to "remove" your car from judging. Trim tag science has graduated to a very high level. A fake trim tag can be detected easily. It's possible to get an engine past Gold or NCRS judging, but not a trim tag.

Being in the 18,000 range, this is a pretty late car. Certainly late enough to be an L89. I had a '67 L89 in the 17,700 range and it was an April '67 car.

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
NJSteve,

-------Dont confuse the whole bunch of us Corvette guys with one overly anal, overly protective guy that happens to run Bloomington Gold. I know of no other Corvette people that have the same feelings towards the word "Survivor" as he does..........Bill S

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just kvetching. My dad had a 38,000 mile 1967 sunfire yellow, 427/390 2 top roadster that I used to take care of for him. It had every piece of paperwork from the day it was purchased new. Neat car, but the clutch disc would freeze to the flywheel if you let it sit too long in storage...and the calipers would leak...and the original carb would never run right...hey now that I think about it, I'm glad we sold it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Carefully reading the owner-creator's description sounds like he's also created escape words for after sale discussions? . Is the 001HG Paint code a known Special Paint code or unique....also is it on the tag of the known-genuine Wingate car? . And what's the verdict on this car from the genuine Wingate car owner? This "restoration motor" term seems like a great way for the bogus guys to still get a full night's rest....and if restoration motors are the unspoken fake, why aren't repop trim tags known as restoration tags? . Great stuff.....have a great weekend fella's! ~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

They're already doing that Steve........restoring cars to "unrestored" condition.......a whole new art form has been developed to put the right patina on new parts. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[TimG]

I like the term "restoration" motor better than "matching numbers".

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
They're already doing that Steve........restoring cars to "unrestored" condition.......a whole new art form has been developed to put the right patina on new parts. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, maybe there's a market here: I will be the first to volunteer to be a Patina Application Technician. You restore the car, give it to me to drive for 15,000 miles and I guarantee it will look like a 15,000 mile car when I'm done with it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

You've just increased it's value.....and had a hell of a lot of fun in the process. What could be better than that??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif