View Full Version : $ 1,500 + for repro spirals!!!!
camaromb
12-14-2005, 05:11 AM
Check out Ebay item# 4596006893, date stamped repro spiral shocks. The Ebay ad never says original and when I emailed them they said they were dated new spirals. Misleading to say the least. Someone is in for an expensive lesson.
Mark
CamarosRus
12-14-2005, 05:57 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Cama...riendlyZ1QQpvZ2 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Spiral-Shocks-Z-28-COPO-Yenko-dated_W0QQitemZ4596006893QQcategoryZ34200QQcmdZVie wItemQQisPrinterFriendlyZ1QQpvZ2)
camarojoe
12-14-2005, 06:17 AM
This is the same place that had a 68 Camaro 140 mph speedometer a little while back with a very vague description as well.
enio45
12-14-2005, 02:19 PM
that 140 speedo was a repo just like the shocks, i emailed them and asked specifically and they said, any dates on the shocks you want and the speedo was rescreened from a yenko. Someone got burned!!
I agree the auction should have said repros, and shame on the buyer for not asking before bidding big $$'s for repro shocks. Isn't the Seller Bob Harris @ Camaro Specialties in NY?
MosportGreen66
12-14-2005, 04:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I agree the auction should have said repros, and shame on the buyer for not asking before bidding big $$'s for repro shocks. Isn't the Seller Bob Harris @ Camaro Specialties in NY?
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How do you know thos are reproduction?
Isn't Camaro Spec. a member here?
Belair62
12-14-2005, 06:32 PM
You have to ask questions if the answers aren't in the auction...I ask people if it's OLD NOS or new NOS now...if you don't ask...they won't tell...
I think Bobs in a bad mood...ring (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5065759786&ssPageName= MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX)
Steve Shauger
12-14-2005, 07:31 PM
Wow, at least someone was mislead. That can ruin a businesses reputation...Does anyone know what the reserve was that is outrageous for a set of $400 shocks.
GeorgeLyons
12-14-2005, 07:48 PM
The "Buyer Beware" exclusion should not apply when you are dealing with a knowledgable known reputable seller. Hobbyists rely on these folks for info and fair treatment and do business accordingly. I hope this is cleared up prior to purchase being made and trouble begins.
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I think Bobs in a bad mood...ring (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5065759786&ssPageName= MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX)
[/ QUOTE ]
The old mood ring. Reminds me of this "Dear Abby" letter.
Dear Abby:
My husband is tired of my mood swings, so he gave me a mood ring. When I am in a good mood, it is green. When I am in a bad mood, it leaves a big red mark on his forehead.
Maybe next time the cheapskate will buy a diamond ring.
Bitchy in Boston.
I found Bitchys sister in Chicago.. http://www.mommyguide.com/modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_angrywife.gif
MosportGreen66
12-15-2005, 03:51 AM
what is the difference between a repro and original spiral shock?
Jonesy
12-15-2005, 04:28 AM
The repo shocks I have seen dont have dates. The dates on the shocks in the auction look like they were stamped as the font just doesnt look right to me.
Besides that,I've yet to see a new repro set fullfil it's duties beyond a few 100 miles of normal street useage.
They were recently re-manufactured for their appearance for the trailered/show cars,so their internals are cheaper and their oil less plentiful.
CamarosRus
12-15-2005, 05:37 AM
I wrote Bob Harris, owner of Camaro Specialties about his business practices as discussed in this thread. He replied..
"We did not state otherwise. We do not want people to think they are readily available. We only have 2 sets currently and anyone who asked us got an honest answer. They are new reproduction shocks that we have dated. We have never misrepresent any parts we have ever sold. You guys are entited to your opinions and I believe you do a good job keeping people honest but any one that knows me also knows that are business practices are always upright. Thanks for the constructive criticism. Have a blessed Christmas. Bob
resto4u
12-15-2005, 05:48 AM
This is just not right... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
Charley Lillard
12-15-2005, 07:07 AM
This is not right. We only have 2 sets till we make more. If it is repo they should say so.
[ QUOTE ]
This is not right. We only have 2 sets till we make more. If it is repo they should say so.
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Have to agree. If it is a reproduction part, call it what it is. When you advertise a classic car part as "dated" that is absolutely misleading.
Lynn
camaromb
12-15-2005, 05:08 PM
I sent Bob an email through Ebay during his auction questioning if they were repro shocks with the date stamped in them. He replied "yes". Bob chose to not show the questions asked during his auction. Total BS for a guy in the parts business.
Mark
GeorgeLyons
12-15-2005, 05:27 PM
FOR SALE: Own a fine collectible, one of the finest pieces of Americana never before offered for sale: The original axe George Washington used to cut down the cherry tree, blade replaced once, handle replaced twice.
It is really funny how one's perception of someone can change in an instance..Isn't this the same Bob Harris that had a Royal Plum '67 RS/Z at one time featured in some Camaoro club magazines?? Isn't this the same guy that turned out some really nice Camaro restorations over the years and who also seemed, to me at least, to have some really desirable 1st gen cars??? I have never dealt with the guy but had a few phone conversations with him over the years regarding his business and different cars for sale from his shop. I always thought he was a stand up guy, but after reading this thread and MORE importantly his reply (assuming it is genuinely his) I think he is a PXX (you figure the letters...), who would dupe someone and risk his reputation for $1500.00 If this is really his attitude, as it appears to be, glad I never did nor will ever do business with this guy! Has the hobby really gotten this bad?
hep1966
12-15-2005, 06:54 PM
How was the auction misleading? They were not advertised as original 1969 shocks. Date codes are commonly placed on many restoration items (stickers, decals, chalk marks or stamps). It is commonly done for glass for collectable cars. If you need to replace the glass in your supercar or 57 Chevy show car are you going to the local shop for a new replacement window or will you go to a specialty supplier to get the glass with a correct date code?
resto4u
12-15-2005, 07:09 PM
The price and wording is to make one think they are NOS. The price alone makes one think the price Nos shocks would sell. Anyone can buy number stamps at the hardware store. Roger
Charley Lillard
12-15-2005, 07:09 PM
It is real simple.. Does the buyer know he bought repo or does he think he bought orig ? My read of the auction made me think they were orig.
Salvatore
12-15-2005, 07:18 PM
In this day and age question everything more times than once. I have dealt with Bob and his guys for years. NEVER a problem. But.....I asked and badgered on everything before I bought. To me everything is questionable to proven else wise. Do your homework! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
hep1966
12-15-2005, 07:20 PM
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The price and wording is to make one think they are NOS. The price alone makes one think the price Nos shocks would sell. Anyone can buy number stamps at the hardware store. Roger
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The starting bid was $125. Is that unreasonable for reproduction shocks?
Reproduction spiral front or rear leafspring shocks,with out date codes,retail for $79.95 each.You can catch them at swapmeets around $50.00 on a slow day.
IMO the ad is misleading because:
1) it never says they AREN'T "NOS" or that they ARE repros
2)the bidder's ID was kept private, which is pretty common for collector cars or parts vs the more common show everyone in your "run of the mill" repro parts auctions
3) he makes an effort to describe their application and part numbers and dates in detail, BUT leaves out they are new manufactured
4) he shows close ups of the dates and part numbers which is more commonly done with an item of collector value as the value is likely in the "details"
5)he mentions his business and the fact they have been doing it for 20 years, serving the public and implying the collector in the process
6) he uses words that are "attractors" in his title.."Yenko, COPO and Z28" vs. just saying these are "1969 Camaro spiral shocks"..he obviously wants the guy looking to restore a car correctly vs. the guy wanting a shock for an old Camaro
7) most importantly he says "bid with confidence" which implies he is fully disclosing..at least to me
Again based on his ad and his resulting emais...not the guy I want to do business with as I'm not an "expert" and there has to be a certain level of trust when buying these types of parts or cars. Hopefully he will make the situation right...just my opinions and observatiosn.
Repsectfully,
GSC
Chevy454
12-15-2005, 07:42 PM
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Posted by mr70:
Besides that,I've yet to see a new repro set fullfil it's duties beyond a few 100 miles of normal street useage.
They were recently re-manufactured for their appearance for the trailered/show cars,so their internals are cheaper and their oil less plentiful.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm curious, have you physically drained the oil from one of these new repro shocks and compared it to an original? Granted, they aren't gonna ride/drive like a new set of gas charged Ranchos, but surely GM wouldn't license a shock that they know folks are gonna drive on but is "just for shows"...I can't see GM's lawyers taking on that kind of liability?
The fluid is either a lesser Viscosity,or not as much is entered into the cylinder as was origianlly.
I bought 2 sets in the past,and both puked out out in performance and handling as time wore on..
I went back to the distrubutor to complain,and his reply was basically verbatim as I stated earlier.
GM only licensed the design..not the quality or the way it was re-manufactured.
Steve Shauger
12-15-2005, 07:49 PM
Bob has been a good provider and has been involved in the hobbie for years. I don't think we should condemn him or his business on this one issue. I would hope in the future he would clarify his auctions so that people don't pay outrageous prices for commonly found items which cost much less. He is a good guy, and would hope he would clear this matter up rather quickly. No he may not of intentionally mislead someone but a simple statement such as "Dated Reproduction Shocks" would prevent a reoccurrence. That is not too much to ask.
jfkheat
12-15-2005, 08:04 PM
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Bob has been a good provider and has been involved in the hobbie for years. I don't think we should condemn him or his business on this one issue. I would hope in the future he would clarify his auctions so that people don't pay outrageous prices for commonly found items which cost much less. He is a good guy, and would hope he would clear this matter up rather quickly. No he may not of intentionally mislead someone but a simple statement such as "Dated Reproduction Shocks" would prevent a reoccurrence. That is not too much to ask.
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Then again, he may be thinking "I made $1200 profit off a $300 set of shocks" and do it again with more shocks or other parts.
James
Chevy454
12-15-2005, 08:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Posted by mr70:
The fluid is either a lesser Viscosity,or not as much is entered into the cylinder as was origianlly.
I bought 2 sets in the past,and both puked out out in performance and handling as time wore on..
I went back to the distrubutor to complain,and his reply was basically verbatim as I stated earlier.
GM only licensed the design..not the quality or the way it was re-manufactured.
[/ QUOTE ]
You do realize we're talking about a spiral shock, that most would agree was inferior even when it was originally introduced? I remember when dad first put the Polyglass on our Camaro after running BFG radials on it and all his other cars for years...we thought we'd screwed the front end up, but in reality it was just that bias-plys paled in comparison to the current radial tire technology we were used to...seems kinda like the same scenario to me...http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Salvatore
12-15-2005, 08:46 PM
It is the same scenerio. Drive the nylon thumpers in the cold! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Watch your teeth.
Canuck
12-15-2005, 10:50 PM
I like the comparison to the dated glass,nobody seems to question why we buy it and it is accepted in the "game" of restoration. I would object to a vendor passing it off as as NOS and date coded. I see lots of ebay vendors selling NEW parts that are still available through Gm as NOS,items such as brake drums and a body sway bars. "Caveat Emptor" still applies.
I brough two NOS bumpers to a plater a year ago and wa explaining to him that they were NOS. He said they were "rejects" and that is why they were never sold years ago.
Camaro_Specialties
12-16-2005, 12:12 AM
Well I guess we gave you guys something to chat about. When I saw what price the shocks sold for I knew this would come up. With a 495.00 reserve I figured it was obvious that they were not NOS. We always state in all of our auction if a part is NOS, GM, or original used.It was never our intention to deceive anyone. I have to answer to a higher power than any of you. I contacted the buyer and told him we would not hold him to the price and if he wants them, to phone us. Have not heard back yet. The reason I didn't state repro is that makes it sound like a readily available part and it is not. Actually the cost of dating them is quite high and I was trying to determine what you guys would pay to see if it was worth inventorying them or not. Contrary to what some may think they are not simply stamped. Try that sometime and all you will get is a dent in your shock. Again it was never our intention to deceive anyone. Several people emailed us and I answered each persons question with an honest answer. I wouldn't think of doing otherwise. By the way, there are a lot of people out there that would rather not know when they are buying parts, whether it be dated glass,a numbered block, repro this or that, if the quality is there and the judges get don't catch it, isn't that the point? How many people have an ALL original car really??!! If you don't know for sure, than you can think what you want, but if I tell you it is a repro part you will know for sure. If your car has an original fender on it or a GM replacement fender installed 2 weeks after the car was sold new because the mailman bumped into it is it really a big deal? To some it is and there are guys that would rather not know the details. If I figure out a way to flatten a big block dipstick do you think I can get 500.00 for it if it is GM ?
Bob Harris Camaro Specialties
camarojoe
12-16-2005, 12:44 AM
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If you don't know for sure, than you can think what you want, but if I tell you it is a repro part you will know for sure.
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Huh? I can't think of anyone who doesn't want to know if the parts they are buying are original GM or reproductions.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
MikeA
12-16-2005, 12:50 AM
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If you don't know for sure, than you can think what you want, but if I tell you it is a repro part you will know for sure.
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Huh? I can't think of anyone who doesn't want to know if the parts they are buying are original GM or reproductions.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
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I agree. I certainly would want to know if I am buying a reproduction part. Knowing that information will dictate the price I am willing to pay!
Charley Lillard
12-16-2005, 01:35 AM
Thanks for chiming in Bob. I think a better way would be to explain on the auction that they are repo and that the repo does not come dated. Then explain that you painstakenly dated them for that perfect look. Explain to them that you can't just stamp them.
Bob is now going over to my T.A convert that he is restoring for me and kicking the door in for the grief I am giving him.........
COPO CARTEL
12-16-2005, 01:38 AM
Guys, I have known Bob for approx. 17 years he is a very very good guy period. He is more knowledgable and honest than most people on this site. If you read his response he phoned the person and told them they weren't NOS. If the person was knowlegable a $495.00 reserve would have been a clue that they were not NOS. Hell $400-$500 was what you would pay for NOS 15-20 years ago. In conclusion Bob DID NOT TAKE THIS PERSONS $$. Some of us on this site own businesses and deal with the public daily, I sure wish I had Bob's reputation. And no I don't work for Bob. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
Charley Lillard
12-16-2005, 01:42 AM
495.00 reserve met does nothing for the guy that first sees the auction when the price is up over 1000.00.
Rick H
12-16-2005, 01:45 AM
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Bob is now going over to my T.A convert that he is restoring for me and kicking the door in for the grief I am giving him.........
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Nope, that is my job and to make it look semetric both doors now look the same.
As for the rest of this I will remain out of it.. of course unless you really want me to chime in then I can oblige.
OK one thing. Bob did the right thing. PERIOD!!
Rick H.
COPO CARTEL
12-16-2005, 02:10 AM
If a person is not knowledgable with what they are buying, wouldn't they seek professional opinions from someone they know. This is what we do in everyday life, ie. real estate transactions(comps in the same area). Bob being a GOOD GUY DID NOT TAKE THIS PERSONS $$ . How many other EBAY people can you say that for. He was expecting the audience to be knowledgable. You cannot fault him for someone else's lack of knowledge. If we read between the lines. He did the right thing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Belair62
12-16-2005, 02:22 AM
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He was expecting the audience to be knowledgable. You cannot fault him for someone else's lack of knowledge.
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My opinion is this..I don't know Bob nor do I doubt he is a good and honest businessman...EBAY is just getting worse and I think he should probably mention whether it is repo or NOS...the guy who bid on them sure as hell should have asked too...which goes to show you...you can't expect the bidder to be knowledgeable. Just like the bidder should ask questions because sellers aren't that knowledgeable either. Since Bob is both knowledgeable and honest he may as well just tell dummies everything up front to eliminate crap like this...maybe it was just an oversight on his part. I must admit the fact that he knows Charley is a bad sign http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif. Since Bob didn't take the guys money he should send the guy the shocks for free and tack it onto Charleys crappy Firebird bill.
MikeA
12-16-2005, 03:08 AM
An eBay listing similar to this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-SS-Camaro-Chevelle-DZ-302-HP-Alternator-837_W0QQitemZ8022877635QQcategoryZ33573QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) would have avoided this thread. I doubt the final price will reach the $1,000 an original one would get.
Steve Shauger
12-16-2005, 04:59 AM
I couldn't agree more Rick... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif
COPO CARTEL
12-16-2005, 05:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He was expecting the audience to be knowledgable. You cannot fault him for someone else's lack of knowledge.
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My opinion is this..I don't know Bob nor do I doubt he is a good and honest businessman...EBAY is just getting worse and I think he should probably mention whether it is repo or NOS...the guy who bid on them sure as hell should have asked too...which goes to show you...you can't expect the bidder to be knowledgeable. Just like the bidder should ask questions because sellers aren't that knowledgeable either. Since Bob is both knowledgeable and honest he may as well just tell dummies everything up front to eliminate crap like this...maybe it was just an oversight on his part. I must admit the fact that he knows Charley is a bad sign http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/CharleySucks.gif. Since Bob didn't take the guys money he should send the guy the shocks for free and tack it onto Charleys crappy Firebird bill.
[/ QUOTE ] A M E N to that brother. Maybe Bob could find http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif an additional $1500.00 amount of body work on Charlie's car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif JUST KIDDING. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
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