Mystery 396 casting date

[mr396]

Here is something you don't see everyday.The block casting number is G 10 8, July 10,1968. The engine pad is stamped T0709 July 9,1968. any idea how this could happen? http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/camaro/e35.jpg
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/camaro/vinn.jpg

[PeteLeathersac]

If all is genuine, I'd suspect the boys just didn't change the gang stamp for block stamping and the earlier stamp date ends up on the later casting block. . How much time usually goes by from casting to assembly? . What I'm wondering now is, isn't this Vin shown 18N468959 in the range of a June build car? ~ Pete

[mr396]

This car was put in storage in 1977 with 50,000 miles on it.I bought it 1n 1984 with the 1977 lic plates still on it. It now has 68,000 original miles and I have all the service records.and pop.I too would like to know how long after casting do they stamp it.

[mr396]

can you tell from the picture if the broach marks look ok? Does the vin #468959 fit with a 07C build?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

This is not unusual per Jeff Dotterer of Dated Components. The Deuce engines generally have an 3-5 day span betw/ the casting date and the assy date, far too close I thought, but apparently not (?)

[Stefano]

I would say it is rather unusual to have an engine pad stamped prior to the engine being cast. I have never seen this with a factory stamping prior. It would have to be a factory mistake,IMO.

[mr396]

definitely unusual, I have had this car fo 20 years.my father bought it in 1984 for $3,000.I'm sure it's the original engine.Does the pad look ok?

[SuperNovaSS]

Are you sure that isn't G 1 8 with a screw head after the 1?


Jason

[Enoch]

That is as dead on for a factory stamp as I have seen Broach marks look good. I don't know the idiosynchrosies(sp?) of the plants vin derivaties,but the Tonowanda stamp
looks good also. JMHO...Rich

I forgot to add that I have seen motors assembled the day after casting on Mid Year BB Vettes.

You should check a Julian calander for that year. It just might be that it was cast on a friday and then assembled on monday when they forgot to change the stamp...you all know how Monday mornings can be.

[bertfam]

Rich,

Nah. That's no good. July 10th, 1968 (http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/index.html?year=1968&country=1) was a Wednesday. But I agree with the "forgot to change the gang" suggestions.

Ed

[mr396]

That 68 calendar is cool http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gifIt was right after the long 4th of july weekend http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif I agree it was just human error.Thanks for every ones input. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JohnZ]

Most likely a factory error, either in the casting date tag or in the setup of the gang-stamp holder.

The casting date tag was brass, with the individual characters soldered to the tag, then attached with screws to the pattern; when the (sand) mold was created from the pattern, the characters appeared as raised. There were multiple patterns for the same casting (each of which had their own pattern number for traceability), and they might have missed a date change on one of the multiple patterns.

Photos below of typical casting number/date/pattern number tags, and of a Tonawanda pad-stamp gang-holder.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-12/13522/ESRIRTGWJODKIMMMGKNX-IntakePlates.JPG

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/13522/TonawandaStamp640.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[mr396]

Thank you JohnZ, That is very interesting. I never seen those before, That is so cool http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif a picture says a thousand words. Do you know how long it took from casting to assembly and stamping at the tonowanda plant? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JohnZ]

From casting to machining/assembly could be as little as one day to a couple of weeks; the Tonawanda foundry was right next door, on the same site with the engine plant. They produced 5500-6000 engines per day, just like Flint V-8 did (except Flint V-8 only made small-blocks - Tonawanda made both SB's and BB's).

[JChlupsa]

John,

Mahalo for the pictures and how they were used. Can you also tell how the screws that held them into place were used. Flat head verses Philps head. I have seen some with both being Flat head and others with one flat and one philips heads. I want to say i was told once that it was the difference in the shifts.

[TimG]

Wow....what an interesting block with an assembaly date before the casting date. This is one for the "strange but true" book. I've seen many small blocks with a one day spread, but it is more rare with a big block. I would think this one was built early in the shift before the error was noticed. I certainly like it and would not hesitate to advertise this error. I think that some strange things like this make for an interesting car.

[mr396]

Thanks, I agree. My wife says it like a mis-stamped coin. This camaro was a special order car and built late in the year (07C). the a/c compressor has a date of 7/10 same as the block, seems like chevrolet was making the parts for this car as they were building it. It was placed in service the same week it was built 07C july 21 1968. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif It was sold thru rosenthal Chevrolet in Virginia and ordered by Jack Popejoy. 11 days after the engine was cast, It was in the orginal's hands. Is that the normal time frame? http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/camaro/camaro13.jpg http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/camaro/camaro22.jpg

[TimG]

Do you have the warranty plate? If so, what date is on this?

[mr396]

The same date. http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a180/mr396/camaro/vin6.jpg

[TimG]

Good work, I love it..............

[indyjps]

GM typically has their annual shutdown the first 2 weeks of july. i cant guarantee that happened in 1968, but if the car was built over the shutdown in 1968 and built during overtime there would be a high likely hood that the operators were not the "normal" operators @ each station. overtime would have been run on seniority. so the likely hood of having an inexperienced person @ the stamping station could have resulted in the numbers not being updated. just a thought.

[mr396]

I checked the CRG web site and found the 1967-1969 end-of-month vin report.It says Nor numbers are... end of may 68 vin# 465482 and June 68 482588..... That would make my 468959 a June 68 build.I think the CRG should look in to this and correct it. http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml

[Kurt S]

There's nothing to correct. Several months are off, that being one of them. Please read all the caveats that are posted before that data. That is from GM records. Maybe GM will correct it, but I'm not sure who to ask. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif