Orange overspray on SB's

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

In preparation for next years Nova Nationals, I have a list of 'to-do's for my Yenko - some of which is new knowledge since I completed my resto almost 5 years ago.

Was there ever any conclusion as to the existence of orange overspray on the top end of '69/'70 Z28 engines? The first I had ever seen was the 6k mile LT1 pics, are there any more engines found like that one? Any pics? I'm leaning towards duplicating that slight amount of overspray from the 6k mile engine, knowing that I will most likely get dinged during judging. But, that's ok with me, they ding me for stuff that I know is right, and that's just the way it goes - but I'd love to have more than one example in my back pocket for that discussion.

Any help?

[camarojoe]

Where is the thread with all those pics of the 6000 mile LT-1 motor? I remember looking at the thread a long time ago, but i didnt save the pics... They were some nice reference shots...

[DarrenX33]

Marlin here are some survivor 69 Z shots from my gallery. Kenny's shows traces of it like in your photo. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif With such a small amount I never bothered to even reproduce it. Seems to be mainly in front of the intake really. Never have seen any on valve covers...
Kenny P's Z (http://www.yenko.net/photos/showgallery.php/cat/533/page/5/perpage/12/what/allfields)

Camaro Specialties Z (http://www.yenko.net/photos/showphoto.php/photo/372/cat/536/page/1)

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Excellent pics Darren, thx. Schoneye recalls a small amount of o/spray on his deuce intake. This gives me more proof, especially on the thermostat housing.

Here is the link to Greg Robert's site with the low mile LT1 pics:

http://www.chevynova.org/1970LT1_Engine.html

[DarrenX33]

Marlin keep in touch on this one. I am very interested in how it turns out for you.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MosportGreen66]

I would assume that the LT-1 did not have a significant amount of overspray on the intake manifold solely because the valve covers were not painted. I would see a nice overspray line on the intake of a car with a painted orange valve covers like the '65 L-78 or L-72 in our Corvette. But motors like the LT-1, L-79, DZ302 should not have much overspray. The areas like you mentioned, on the front and rear of the intake (north and south ends) but not on the sides.

Great pictures.

[Kurt S]

The mask used on non-painted valve covers and Al intakes engines covered the complete top of engine.
So there could be minor overspray at the front and rear, depending on the mask and the painter. But as Mosport says, there shouldn't be any on the intake sides. I've seen several L78's painted on the intake sides, they are wrong. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Jacsey 70Z]

Marlin, This is a subject I've been looking into for quite a while. I live near Flint and know a guy that painted these engines for thirty years (now retired) he went into detail about what was on the engine at the time of painting. The only mask was on the valve covers, the intake got hit front and rear and at the end of the line there was a guy with siver pait and a brush touching up the intakes. I didn't touch my engine at all and have silver paint front and rear and several intake bolts.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1627096/6964160/67157347.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Wow...this is why this site is way too cool...

Thanks Jack for the great information! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Get out!! That's very cool info, never knew the sequence on the SB paint method - much less that they would silver up the overspray! Thx http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Jacsey 70Z]

Here's another cool thing I found, the spark plug wire stansions were painted on the engine after the valve covers were installed, brush marks on the cover. They were painted with a brush and the bolts are orange also, there is no paint where the brush couldn't get. I've seen this on all survivor LT1 just never saw this much paint on the valve cover, The passenger side valve cover is much neater job, maybe two different people one on each side.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1627096/5979015/122707103.jpg

This is a 4000 mile survivor 70 Z28 notice the Orange bolts and the paint on the intake.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1627096/5979015/122708418.jpg

[Mr70]

That's pretty interesting Jack.
Can you tell if your PCV Valve has #746C stamped along the side and is it tinted purple?

[Salvatore]

Show us more!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[CamarosRus]

Surely Jack will answer any and all questions. His is the most documented, photographed, original, unrestored, survivor 1970 Camaro Z-28 WE know of.....and surely the best model for any 70 Camaro resto in progress.....and YES, I am a big fan, admirer and friend of Jacks.

[Jacsey 70Z]

I didn't notice any purple tint on the PCV valve, This is how it reads...
AC SPARK PLUG
Type CV-746C
When talking to this engine plant paint guy he told me that he very seldom painted the bottom of the oil pan very well because you really had to get on one knee to do it. Quality control would come down with complaints of oil pans rusting out from no paint, so they would paint them while they were standing there as soon as they left they would go back to the easy way. He told me he could paint an entire engine and never leave his stool and not miss a word in his book!!
Also told me he didn't paint a bellhousing in thirty years, just hit it across the top. I asked him if I got a engine ready would he come over and paint it the way he did in 70, he said sure but he also guarenteed me I wouldn't like it.
Thanks for the nice comments Chuck!!

You can tell which side was down on the harmonic balancer.
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1627096/6964160/89503560.jpg

CTB in crayon on block Z28 4 Speed

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL17/1627096/6964160/122730332.jpg

[DarrenX33]

Overspray? Looks like we are all using way too much paint. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Excellent pictures Jack. Keep them coming. What a great lesson this is. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Very good info Jack, looks like I have some more items to work on http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[JohnZ]

I worked at the Chevrolet Pilot Line from '66-'70, just a couple of hundred yards down Van Slyke Road from the Flint V-8 plant, and I spent a lot of time at Flint V-8 during that time; a friend of mine ran the Piston Department.

Both Flint and Tonawanda used vacuum-formed plastic masks on aluminum intakes and on aluminum or chrome valve covers during painting, and the intake mask was pretty much open at the front to accommodate the water pump bypass fitting and hoses - that's why you see more overspray at the front of the intake than at the rear. Engines came through the paint booth at Flint V-8 at nearly 300 per hour, and it was hardly a "concours" operation - the last guy at the exit of the booth was plenty busy removing masks, cardboard tubes from the spark plugs and water pump hub, the can over the distributor, tape from the stamp pad, etc., and I never saw anyone doing any "silver touch-up" at the front of any intakes. This operation varied a lot from hour to hour and from day to day, and it wasn't precise or consistent by any stretch of the imagination, as each guy had less than twelve seconds to do his assigned job, and engines with aluminum intakes and valve covers had twice the work content for them than standard engines.

The way we restore engines today, we wouldn't be satisfied with the way aluminum-intake engines actually looked when they left Flint V-8 or Tonawanda in the 60's.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I would like to duplicate the original factory look as close as possible! So, I will be overspraying, dabbing, etc... in order to do a true 'concourse' resto. ( I will also have a copy of this thread with me at the Nationals in '06 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif )

Thanks for the pics, & the info - keep it coming!

[SS427]

[ QUOTE ]
The mask used on non-painted valve covers and Al intakes engines covered the complete top of engine.
So there could be minor overspray at the front and rear, depending on the mask and the painter. But as Mosport says, there shouldn't be any on the intake sides. I've seen several L78's painted on the intake sides, they are wrong. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Kurt,
No disrespect but I would like to hear John's take on this. I have inspected MANY survivor LS-6's and the overspray on the intake sides and valve cover lips was very obvious though very faint as well unlike the ends. I am currently restoring an X-drag LS-6 that had all it's original parts pulled off the engine and stored in a box when it was brand new and replaced with racing Day 2 parts. These valve covers clearly showed overspray on them as well as all the bolts and plates under the bolts. I do not believe I photographed them but will double check as the owner provided me with several hundred photos of the car and parts before he shipped the car to me and I think some of them showed it.

Again, I could be totally wrong but my research shows the contrary to the overspray. I would love to hear more about the assembly line procedures and see possible photos. This stuff is priceless and thanks again John.
Rick

[Xplantdad]

I agree John...keep it coming. There's nothing better than hearing it from someone who experienced it first hand. BTW, John sent me a write up on one of his former cars...stay tuned in the Members rides area...it's awesome! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Kurt S]

Rick,
No problem. The info I posted is from pretty much from John. He doesn't frequent this board, so I had asked him to post cause he always has more details. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Here's a quote from him that clarifies the mask used:

"Both plants used a vacuum-formed plastic mask on aluminum intakes during painting..... Engines that also had aluminum or chrome valve covers used a similar mask that had "wings" on it that also masked the valve covers."

[SS427]

Kurt,
Thanks for the imput. As I have said for years, I learn something new every day. I am just curious why I have seen so many original LS-6 cars with overspray along the intake runners. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif It would be great to see more assembly line photos if John or anyone else can post them.
Rick

[JohnZ]

There was enough variation and lack of consistency in the engine painting operation at each plant and between the two plants that NCRS (I'm an NCRS Master Judge) doesn't describe the overspray issues in detail in the Judging Guides (which are well over 100 pages long for each year car, and have an astounding level of detail for everything else).

All we refer to in the JG's is "slight overspray may be present on the front and rear of the aluminum intakes and water pump bypass hoses". We have judged hundreds of KNOWN-original cars (we have a "Bowtie" judging class just for unrestored/unmolested/untouched original cars), whose value is as educational tools in providing Originality guidance for the Flight Judging Guides, and they show enough variation that it would be unfair to seize on any one painting/masking configuration as being the only "correct" one.

It takes ten man-hours to Flight Judge a Corvette (five two-man teams, each of which spends 45 minutes to an hour judging Operations, Exterior, Interior, Mechanical, and Chassis), and only about four points (out of 4500 for the whole car) are related to overspray on the intake.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

John do you know anyone who was at Tonawanda or are you comfortable that they did the big blocks the same way over there ? Also could you explain the differences in broaching with a W engine as opposed to a straight broached 396 and later big blocks.

[DarrenX33]

John thanks for chiming in. Great info as always. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[JohnZ]

[ QUOTE ]
John do you know anyone who was at Tonawanda or are you comfortable that they did the big blocks the same way over there ? Also could you explain the differences in broaching with a W engine as opposed to a straight broached 396 and later big blocks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was only at Tonawanda twice in the late 60's, but their paint process was similar to the one at Flint V-8. I recall one of the Tonawanda process engineers commenting during a lunch discussion that the old "W"-blocks were decked using a simple rotary mill process instead of building a huge broach machine like they used for the high-volume small-blocks. I posted a photo of the Tonawanda broach cutters in another thread - that machine was about the size of a large locomotive, and the relatively low volume of the "W"-block didn't justify that kind of tooling investment.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Belair62]

Thanks for that info John....Did you ever think anyone would give a crap about all that stuff 35 years later !!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Happy New Year

[mister_copo]

Great post and some more solid info with some great pictures. I know the person who owns the 6K mile LT1 block and have documented it as well. One of these days I'm going to find the right car to transplant that motor into and then i'll make him a stupid offer for that engine.

Either that or i'll be there to roll that engine and stand into his grave when they bury him with the rare parts he has aquired over the years.



Great post guys, and a plathora of info.

[Mr70]

This is a factory photo of an engine compartment from a 1964 Malibu.
283 CID
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/DHSB0001.jpg

[Mr70]

Closer to note Ex. Manifold coverage.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/DHSB0002.jpg

[JohnZ]

Here's where it all started - this was taken at Flint V-8 in 1955, loading the very first V-8's off the delivery conveyor on the shipping dock into racks headed for rail cars; note paint coverage, "log" exhaust manifolds, no side motormount bosses, no oil filter boss, riveted-on crank pulley, etc. A little trip down memory lane! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/13522/55V8Shipping800.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Mr70]

Now that's http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Salvatore]

That is great John. What great historical photos. Thanks!

[Belair62]

Good stuff John...dig out some W stuff !

[Salvatore]

[ QUOTE ]
Good stuff John...dig out some W stuff !

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif