Harrell Website

[jfkheat]

Anyone here a member of the Dick Harrell website? What's up with the discussion about the Dick Harrell funnycar? Interesting reading.
James

[NEW]

So what¨s up?, what is correct and not?


NEW

[Rick H]

That was some very interesting reading. The responses should be even better. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Rick H.

[sYc]

The recent debate about my funny car is quite interesting and confirms several of the theories, and dispels a few others, that I had about the number, and make up, of Dick's 1968 funnycars, including mine. In the past, my car has been discussed on various sites, including on here and the Harrell site, where the majority of the folks who are now involved in the debate gave it their blessings as being legit. Some of them have been pictured with the car, given interviews to print media about it, and most made posts on here and other sites about how "neat" the car was.

These types of discrediting posts are not uncommon on the Harrell and other sites, just ask Kim Howie, Helen Gibb, Mike Guarise, Ed Cunneen, Ken Boje, the Yenko family, and others. Why some sites would rather focus on the negatives rather then the positives is beyond me, and out of my control. The one thing I can control is how I handle this situation, which means I am simply going to follow the lead of these other fine folks, who choose to let things run their course without interference. The one thing I have learned, rarely do these types of threads ever benefit our hobby. More times then not, it only serves to draw people a part, not together.



I have had a ton of fun with the car, with lots of great memorable moments, and look forward to many more. Of course, none can compare with the shot of BBenny being blown off the wall at the SCR. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Very Sad!!!!

[RPOZ26]

So is your car the real deal or not. Ed

Tom,

I actually just joined that website today to view the photos they posted, so I'm certainly not a "member" or in the "good old boys club" of either there or here for that matter. While I think there are some very juvenille people on the Harrell site (especially as evidence by one person's stupid name calling post..with little to nothing to add, except when he post..we all get to look at a very nice Corvette Bronze 1968 Camaro) I must admit though after looking at the photos they posted, there seems to me to be quite a bit of differences to the pics "USA1" posted and your car. I'm not trying to start anything, but like someone posted this website and its' posters have sometimes gone out of its'/their way to document legit cars and to expose (for lack of a better term) clones or recreations. As someone that appreciates when a truly legit car is found, I would be interested as many I'm sure would be what documentation (paperwork) you have saying the car you have is a/the DH car? I know in the past I was asked to provide docs on the various cars I've owned, especially as I posted replies from an "experts" position..meaning when someone asked a question and I answered and was perceived as an "expert" (I'm certainly not one however..) people wanted to know what docs I had to back up my post..I always sent them if requested...

Please keep in mind I'm not trying to discredit you or the car, but as a student of history, and being versed in research methods I appreciate "detective work"..it seems at least one guy on that site has done a lot of work and based soley on his pics presented IMHO raised some serious questions...

Being from Missouri..I'm sure you know the motto...

What documentation do you have that the FC you have is a/the 1968 DH car?

I know my post might seem out of line to some, but I feel necessary as in this market full disclosure is needed, especially with such a historical car.

For what it is worth..I hope your car turns out to be the DH car, as it is extremely cool, but if not it is still a very cool old drag car...one I'd love to have in my garage any day of the week..

Respectfully,

G S Carlson

[JChlupsa]

Lets turn back the clock to a post that was made here on the sYc site in the Kirby Funny Car Thread.

This qoute is talking about the Kirby car when it was on Ebay;

[ QUOTE ]
THE WHOLE AD. It says, ìOriginal Dick Harrell #3 car.î Under Vehicle condition it says ìAn all original DICK HARRELL 68 Funny Carî. It is not, was not and would never be a DH original car. It also says "own a piece of history"; racing history comes from wins and famous owners. The DH name is a good piece of Jim Kirby history. What major event did this car ever win? It was painted Harrell colors so he could fill in for Dick. The name Jim Kirby was not one everyone went to pay and see.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue">Notice this wording in the above quote:
It is not, was not and would never be a DH original car. </font>


And this quote by the same person about Tom Clary's 68 Harrell Funny Car.

[ QUOTE ]
Tom has been a true gentleman to the Harrell family, unlike others. GO FIGURE! This also brings up another issue. Tomís car indeed is a REAL Dick Harrell car and the other does detract from the value of there being more than just a few originals

[/ QUOTE ]

Then at SCR7 While at the Track Dave Libby telling me that Toms Car sat higher than it did WHEN THEY RACED IT

And Glenn standing in amazement while looking at the car at SCR8 saying it was good to see an old friend again since He had not seen the 68 or Lil Hoss in YEARS/


Oh the first two quotes were from Dale Pulde's Kirby Funny Car post in case people would like to know.

[Belair62]

I don't know anything about Toms car...but I do know that if those people told me the sun was shining..I would have to go outside and look. Glad I don't own a Harrell car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[moparts]

Guess thats what you get for letting the experts verify your car Tom. Dale P, Val H, and Dave L. all went on and on about the car and how great it was to see it again, and how good a job you did in restoring the car back like it was it the good old days. I doubt very seriously that the drugs they were/are doing promote long term memory.

I would look at the pics they have posted to see if any are different than the one's used in restoring the car but I can't they have me banned. Guess I am the lucky one.

[Rat_Pack]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt very seriously that the drugs they were/are doing promote long term memory.


[/ QUOTE ]

moparts, what new information did you provide by making a post like that? That is the type of slander that everyone here has wanted to avoid and now you come on here and post that type of statement. Whether it was joking or not it shouldn't have been said.................

Now I have not seen anything from anyone on this site to negate the claims against Tom's car. USA1 Funnycar has made a strong case against Tom's car and I have yet to see any evidence to disprove this guy other than some statements made 2 years ago by Dale &amp; Dave over a car that was presented to them as the DH funnycar from 1968. Are they not allowed to make a mistake and then change their minds? I would hope they are. Hell I have made mistakes in the past and was allowed to correct myself. Even Tom's reply above talks about how Mike and Kim have been bashed by people on other sites, I even bashed Kim on his paint because it was the wrong color. (see picture attached for the true color of red that I took in 1970) I have been bashed about stuff that I have said or done but I don't care. If I am wrong, then I am wrong and I will admit it.

I received an email from Dale a while ago and I asked him if I could post it here for everyone to read. This was sent to me long before the topic showed up on their website on Christmas Day.
[ QUOTE ]
Troy. When Tom 1st came forward with this car. he claimed to have pictures and documents. We along with others took his word for it. believing in Tom and his so called loyalty. We backed him. Later Val and I were at the FCR2 when we saw the car. Being nice and being glad to see it we accepted it and didnt even look for the obvious. Dave Libby who was having health problems made it to the race, Dave had mentioned the car was repaired in the front corner.
Mo went over looked at the car and said it was repaired. At that time it showed they may have had doubt. Truth be known We ALL ran into things and repaired the fronts of our cars.
What Dave failed to say is the car had a clip put on it. Not just a repair on a corner. Val has Nevr gotten anything from Tom to verify the car, Therefore there was never a valid License agreement. yet this is the man who tells everyone that val wants all this money to use the name. i think she has been more than fair to a man who is trying to help bury her. There is more to note on this car but I am in a situation that includes Mr Clary.I cant tell you how many people have asked about this car and said what a poor job of portrail it is of Dick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too want to see pictures of Tom's car before any restoration work was done as I personally feel it is not the Dick Harrell car from what I have observed. I do feel however he DOES have a significant piece of southern drag racing history and if it turns out to be that car then it needs to be restored that way.

Moparts, if you cannot see the pictures I will be glad to email them to you as I have saved all of them from their site.................RatPack.....................

[Kim_Howie]

Troy, love the pic of my car can you tell if Freds name is on the back??

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, yes that is what it says as the Gibb lettering is visible in the original. I thought you might like that picture. I found it along with about 30 others that I had thought were lost when my wife and I got married in 1991 as that was the last time I saw them. Also I have a picture of the funnycar and it says Dick Harrell on the 1/4 panel with Fred Gibb on the door in the crest...............RatPack...............

[Kim_Howie]

<font color="re(see picture attached for the true color of red that I took in 1970)d"> </font>

Troy, That picture wasn't taken by you in 1970. Fred didn't buy the car until Aug. 23rd 1971. Enclosed copy of the title. Kim

[RPOZ26]

After looking at these two pictures you can tell the cars are not the same. Like I said before show me pictures of the car before the resto. The question is easy Tom is your car real or a clone,a simple yes or no will do. Ed
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/DHFC5.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/DHFC6.jpg

[hvychev]

Guys here is the bottom line. The rabbits and Harrels don't like Tom Clary or ANYONE that is associated with this site. To educate the new guys why, it is because Tom and the Moderators rid this site of all the riff raff negative losers that used to plague us with all their greed, lies, treachery, and deceit. Now they stop at nothing and spend their days plotting trying to find something that they can use against us. They are also the biggest closet readers of this site lurking under the mask of anomity. To prove that they hate ANYONE associated with this site I recently logged on that no good Harrell site after months of not reading only to find out that I had been banned. Not for any reason other than being associated with this site. I had dozens of very pleasant Internet conversations with Val Harrell and respect her for what she tried to do for her fathers memory until her unstable boyfriend threw a monkey wrench into the works and DISGRACED the Harrell name. Funny when Tom supported the Harrells they couldn't get enough of his car and thought it was the coolest. They roll over anybody that dosen't play ball with them.

My advice to Tom and the Moderators is stop screwing around and ban the last couple rabbits that escaped the hole to disrupt this site. It is obvious who they are.

[RPOZ26]

Hey Frank stick to the topic,is Toms car real or not. If you want to ban me thats find,I'm like a rebodied Deuce I keep coming back http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.Ed

[Belair62]

Hey Ed...you yourself are clueless and have no dog in the fight so why are you so concerned ? Are those your marching orders ? I will give you your wish after you reply.

[hvychev]

One down.......a couple more to go.....

[JoeG]

TALLY-HO!!---

[musclecarjohn]

I just read the stuff being said over at the Harrell site and I must say I am amazed at how nasty everyone is becoming.

Can't we all just get along...? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Belair62]

Thats pretty much what they do.

[Steve Shauger]

Read some of the crap on the Harrell site...just juvenile and pathetic.

[sean70ss]

This is getting pretty nasty but why would Tom Clary sue for the rights to the Dick Harrell name? Tom Can you answer that? I have no interest either way but should it not stay within the family out of respect? Sean

[Chevy454]

Sean, I see your propoganda mailer from DH.com has arrived in the mail...too bad the info is wrong. "Tom Clary" is sueing NO ONE...it's Valerie that is sueing her cousin, who still owns/operates the Dick Harrell store in New Mexico that Dick helped his family start back in 1971...look it up, it's public info...and while you're at it, look up on the US/PTO website how Val is going after *ALL* rights to the Gibb trademark as well... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Belair62]

That's pathetic . Must be a lot of money in t-shirts and key chains huh ? Yeah lets se...I trust them. It's sunny and 60 in Chicago right now...

[sean70ss]

Rob, First off politicians use propaganda and smoke and mirrors! I could care less either way I just asked a simple question of the lawsuit and I will look it up. And no one has contacted me. BTW we gonna run your ol hot rod title for title against the ol Vitar car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Sean http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I have no clue as to the differences in the two pics above and I really don't care. We know this is a personal thing against Tom. Tom has believed that there were two 68's and that the one you are comparing is not his car. He relied on the seller and others that it was a Harrell car. To further convince him was when Libby told him about damage to the car that he did not know about. If someone has now evidence that it is another car then please tell us. Most of the bashing is coming from people that have been banned from this site for good reason. There is more than one way to approach a subject and the folks from Harrell and Rabbit choose to take the bashing route. Wouldn't make any sense to send Clary pics of the car they think it is and spell it all out. My understanding on the lawsuit was the Halls filed it after Val tried to trademark the Dick Harrell name in New Mexico. The Hall family is related and has been operating a Dick Harrell Performance center in New Mexico since the early 70's. Why would Val want to trademark the name in New Mexico ? Should the Hall family be denied use of the name because now Val wants to control the name ? Why has Val filed papers to trademark the Fred Gibb name ? Dick Harrell was a great name but that name now includes all that goes on on that web site. Me and many others no longer have any interest in Harrell cars because of all the baggage that now comes with one. Show Tom what car it was and if he was wrong I'm sure he will letter it up that way.

[Rick H]

You know what, I was going to stay out of this but it's just not my nature.

NASTY?? Did somebody say it was getting nasty over there?? What about over here??

This is great quote [ QUOTE ]
Read some of the crap on the Harrell site...just juvenile and pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it not the same crap here? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Somebody but this hypocrisy to rest and hurry!

Rick H.

[Belair62]

You got to stand for something or you are going to fall for anything Rick...now go stamp some date codes on repop shocks !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif J/K

[MikeA]

[ QUOTE ]
You got to stand for something or you are going to fall for anything Rick...now go stamp some date codes on repop shocks !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif J/K

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Steve Shauger]

Rick give me a break, you actually equate what has been said on this site with what has been stated on the DH site. If you don't like my statement so be it...move on.

[Rick H]

Oh man Bob, you almost made me laugh. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Rick H.

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, you are correct about the date, but I did take that picture. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Fred bought the car on Monday the 23rd and it was at Bristol by the end of the week with the Stott Chevrolet lettering removed and Fred's name on the quarter panel. This was the last race at Bristol that Dick was at. This was the All-American Nationals that was held on the last weekend of August and it was the very first IHRA race at Bristol. That is why the car shows the S/S on the windshield as IHRA called their "Pro Stock" class Super Stock for the 71 season and then in 72 it became Pro Stock. I have a video made from an old that shows Dick working on the car in the pits during that race so it is two weeks before he was killed...................RatPack.................. ...

[Rick H]

No Steve, I think everyone should give everyone else a break. The basis of the content is no different then another bashing episode that has occured on this site, DH site, Rabbit site, etc. Pick a site, it's all the same.


And as for your statement, I liked it because I thought it was fitting for both sites. Period.

Rick H.

[SuperNovaSS]

I see quite a few questions but no answers. At this point the evidence seems pretty strong showing many significant differences between the cars. I would like to hear from the source before forming any concrete opinions. Maybe we should all make a New Year's resolution to get along with one and other.


Jason

[hvychev]

Rick H, we have been dealing with these knuckleheads for years now. Instead of your Johnny Come Lately, lets all get along approach, please do not suggest that Tom Clary lay down and play dead with these goofballs. Untill you have been a target of their bashing (I personally have) then it is better to just read and not comment.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick H, we have been dealing with these knuckleheads for years now. Instead of your Johnny Come Lately, lets all get along approach, please do not suggest that Tom Clary lay down and play dead with these goofballs. Untill you have been a target of their bashing (I personally have) then it is better to just read and not comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

OK Frank let me take your approach, you can take your "Johnny Come Lately" and shove it! Is that better?

Rick H.

[Belair62]

If you guys keep this up you are going to be asked to join the Harrell site...

[hvychev]

[ QUOTE ]
Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

OK Frank let me take your approach, you can take your "Johnny Come Lately" and shove it! Is that better?

Rick H.


[/ QUOTE ]

SIR YES SIR!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

LOL! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JoeG]

Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

Guess you've never been married----

[Rick H]

Frank,
I am actually laughing. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Rick H.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]


Frank, no disrepect but you or no one else will tell me what to do. I hope that is very clear!

Guess you've never been married----

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I stand corrected.

Rick H.

[55chevy]

Man..the Rabbit boys are just on a roll here lately http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif They banned me from their piece of crap site the other day because I made an objectional post to something someone said and then they edited my post... After I re-edited it they deleted it... After I was banned from the site I told them to delete all my posts.

here's the crybabys reply

[ QUOTE ]
as soon as all the other sites including your favorite removes all my pictures and info.let me fill you in too mr motion guru.you recently told someone who posted they didn't have a motion car with the expert knowledge you have from reading magazines.well guess what!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Gilpin
To: Tim Lopata
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: DETROITHORSEPOWER


I want all my posts on your site (including the pics I've posted) removed.

Thank you.

[Rick H]

Good morning all.

First my statement to follow is not to place quilt, blame or any sort of bashing on anyone involved on this or the other site. Just a remark about this whole mess. I am actually writting this in a calm manner, hoping to get my point across without malice.

I am not taking sides either way on the issue of the car because I don't know a thing about the vehicle. I am just stating my feelings based on what has been said.

As in all disputes there are 2 sides to every story and like most story's it's the strongest writting or push if you will that win's out 99% of the time. When differences flare up between two parties it will always be the one shouting the loudest that gets the most attention and can sway even the most deadfast individual to the other side.
As in any court of law, it's the best use of supporting evidence that convinces the jury of either guilt or innocence. (Ok, except for the OJ case).

I am not taking sides on this but after awhile the silence generated by the ummmmmmmm, silent party will start to cast doubts to even those who have in the future stood in defense of the him.
Think about it. Haven't you always believed in something only to hear another version and found yourself saying, hmm that just might be. The power of persuasion is very strong.

In this case there is some pretty strong slamming going on and I don't care who you are but to the casual observer and even the most supported member it has to but some sort of doubt in your mind.

I am not saying that Tom has to refute any of what has been said, it's his car no matter what the pedigree and he can say what he wants about it BUT I got to believe that there are others who would want to remove any sort of doubt and know either way so as to get this mess resolved and move on.

My point? (not sure I had one) As long as the bashing continues without rebuttal it's going to leave some doubt in the minds of supporters, I don't care who you are, that's my belief.

Ok now please don't shoot me.

Rick H.

P.S. Everyone have a safe New Year

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't know much about funny cars, but I was sitting at the table in Englishtown several years ago with Libby, Tom, et al, discussing the unique characteristics of Tom's car - which was why it was confirmed as being the real FC. I was a sponge to this type of info. The best part? The owners of DH's '67, &amp; '68 were sitting at a table with DH's mechanic - how can you beat that?

[moparts]

[ QUOTE ]
After looking at these two pictures you can tell the cars are not the same. Like I said before show me pictures of the car before the resto. The question is easy Tom is your car real or a clone,a simple yes or no will do. Ed
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/DHFC5.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/RPOZ28/DHFC6.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

I will run through this once quickly so listen up. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

1. The picture you are comparing the completed car to is one of 3 that was used to restore the car. In order for it to be posted it had to be scanned and put back together since it was larger than the scanner would do. The angle of the two pictures is not exact though close.

2. There are 2 or 3 things that anyone can see is different. Rear wheels (still looking for the right one's),

rear quarter windows (at the time of this pic., which was about 1 hour after completion, we had not found any of the blue shaded plexiglass that they used)

Fuel and water tanks (after ordering and returning 3 sets of tanks to an outfit in California we decided to go with the closest they had come up with, not right but we needed to get the car to a show the next week I think)

Rear spoiler ?????? maybe there is a difference, maybe not. The spoiler was almost completly broken off the car when we started on it. The previous owners had used aircraft stripper and putty knives to remove old paint and even the gell coat from the body. In places the fiberglass was eaten all the way through.

3. Look at the lower ladder bar bracket...we were told that this was wrong on the car at Englishtown. When we showed Mr Libby these pictures he said that he must have forgot that they were on the car. We chose to install the front ladder bar in this bracket until we could run the car and find out how much traction the car had. We figured that wheel spin would be better than too much traction the first few times out. Now here is a question...if the car that Mr Libby worked on most of the time didn't have the lower bracket...then could it have been a different car?

4. Now for the tinwork...the chassis and body had been cut and redone several times in it's life. Engine had been moved who know's how many times. I cut off at least 3 different rear mounting tabs from the chassis. Every time the engine was moved the body was cut to fit. The body tin work had at least 3,000 rivets in it and needed another 1,000 to make all the metal stop flapping. We spent several day's tring to find pictures good enough to restore the tin work back to origional, but no one took detailed pics of the tin work that we could find. The tin work in the car had been cut and modified several times, moving engine, manual trans. with hand brake, etc. After talking to Bob Gibson from Ill. (who has done several funny cars) he told us that no 2 cars were ever done the same on tin work. Usually simpler was better, if the tinwork done its job then that was all that was required.

5. I know that the car is not 100% correct....but I will bet that it is at least 85%. We knew when restoring the car that there was some things that we didn't have enough information on. At Englishtown Mr. Libby was telling us a story of how the car was wrecked and the left front fender busted and repaired. We all walked over to the car and sure enough there was the patch on the fender just like what he described. Dale P. pointed out 2 or 3 safety items that we needed to address on the engine. Bruce Larson was very helpful that day at Englishtown with advice and help that was priceless. But at no time, not from anyone there, was the authenticity of the car questioned.

So to answer your question:

All the stories and history of the car fit when restoration was started. Besides modifications done to chassis and body the parts matched the pictures.

When car was shown for the first time Mechanics and Drivers from that time period verified the car. Some with stories of things that happened, some by looking the car over and just saying man that brings back some good memories.

I can say that Tom and myself have had a blast restoring, showing, talking about and running the car. Lots of hours and miles have been put into this car over the last 3 or 4 years.

So is it real because They said so?

Or is it a fake because They said so?

I guess after reading all of this crap on both websites is the one thing that still amazes me, is if Tom feels he has a legit DH car, as he has been claiming all these years (even on business cards) then why hasn't he produced the documentation to the car, whether paperwork or otherwise....As someone else pointed out..not saying anything in a public manner when confronted with possible contrary evidence leads to an assumption the evidence is correct. Tom should want to rectify that...

I think it is evident to many that there are a lot of morons on that site, but truth be told there are morons here as well..complete with their "stars"...just read some of the post when someone post an umpopular thought or subject. One side can't hold themselves above others when some of the same people posting on this thread have at various times been EXTREMELY confrontational and downright asses (I'm sure I fall into that catagory at least once as well..)

It goes without saying that since this site was the first "supercar" website and the owners (the Clary's) felt to need to remove certain people, that when those people feel the owner's car is now is in question they might be alittle overzealous. It still doesn't excuse the manner in which they post however. This along with just some really stupid people overall on both sites, leads to the discussion being more on a 6th grade level and folks "forgetting" that there is an actual bonafide topic to discuss... Amazing that some people on both sites probably run companies and decide the fate of way bigger things other than cars that hardly get driven...makes one wonder.

I guess I'm amazed that this car was allowed to be called a DH car since at least 2000 (based on Tom's post) without someone stepping up and actually asking what proof there is... What paperwork is there? What research methods were used to find evidence? What sources were used? Old memeories, photos, etc? How were the final conclusions made? Maybe as a result of this website and who Tom is (in my limited knowledge of the man, he seems to be "ok") the normal questions didn't come up or were assumed to be ok. I know from dealing with military after action reports details and memeory can be sketchy after only a few hours...So if relying on 20+ years they can be wrong..Not saying that was done here, but if that is the only means of confiming something then IMO it is shaky from a research prospective.. Also let's face it people make honest mistakes and confirm wrong things..happens all the time..Ask people who witnessed a tramtic event...many views of the same situation..Not sure if that happend here as I obviosuly wasn't around for the conversations..just food for thought..

It is funny to me though how everyone is glossing over the real topic here...After all someone post a car on Ebay and within hours guys here and everywhere pick it apart. People are quick to point out "caution fan" issues, but apparently not wanting to discuss the vaidiaty of someones claim to have a historical car??? Doesn't make much sense to me..IMO the current situation with respect to the "DH" car would be like me saying I own one of Erich Hartmann's BF-109G's "Gustav" (the highest scoring fighter ace in history, 352 confirms)and never having to prove it...Then when someone post what could be credible evidence to the contrary people just minimzing it..It would be a historically significant piece and worth more than another BF109G based on WHO it belonged to..I know Tom is being quoted as saying his car is worth upwards of 200k, BUT that is really probably only IF it is a DH car or has a direct lineage to DH..Another fliptop car more than likely wouldn't be worth that..So as long as Tom's car is called a DH car it will always be worth more, and generate more interest (magazine, trackside, etc).

To me it appears that instead of looking at the info that one person (USA1) on the "dreaded" other website provided..apparently through some significant research..people on BOTH sides are focusing on extra BS..lawsuits, name calling, personal attacks, etc. I don't knwo "USA1" from Adam..based on his profile there it appears he is an attorney, and I would suspect if true well versed in researching a topic. He has posted pics of Huston Platt's (another known drag racer..although certainly not as popular or maybe more importantly marketable as DH) drag car and provided actual documentaion to his points. People seem to be "overlooking" this and trying to make the discussion about other BS topics..Everyone keeps talking about "pics" of the Clary's car before it was restored..where are these pics? Do they exist? IMO "USA1" seems like he makes valid points to why he feels Tom's car ISN'T the DH car it is reported to be. Why haven't his post been directly addressed in a public manner (this is the way they were evidently presented) by Tom? If someone reports a car to be something and there is ANY skuttlebutt to the contrary I would think the owner would want to squash it. After all in this market it can be damning..

I guess being an "outsider" on all three sites (here, there and Rabbitt's) means I have a different prospective. I'm not bound by friendships, loyalty or a sense of "holding my tongue." I have and always will be a student of history, and I'll always appreciate research and finding the truth to a question. I can see the irony IF Tom's car isn't a DH car as afterall this site has made it a focal point to call out questionable cars and makes no bones about doing it... IT is a really good thing that has helped everyone gain knowledge about correctness and made people aware of potential fakes. It would suck though if the "head guy" was guilty of being "overzealous" in his interest to bringing a potential historical car to light and then when confronted with possible photographic contrary evidence didn't address it..Hope that isn't the case as it is a neat car either way..if the car is proven to be another car hope the same "zeal" will go to righting the wrong.

In closing I truly have no stake in any of this..it really won't affect me in any way..whatever the outcome is..I would only hope as being an avid "musclecar" enthuiast the truth comes out. Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous New Year.

G S Carlson

[Kim_Howie]

Greg, The question I have is USA1 has made all these statements. WHO is he "BATMAN" I would like to know??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Greg, what type of paperwork do you expect to find with a FC? I think it was already said that there two DH cars in '68 - hence the obvious differences, what's the issue?

I have no idea who he is or his motivations..Frankly "who" he is really shouldn't be an issue...The issue should be if his evidence and research methods are credible and they open the door to other research or another conclusion. Just like it shouldn't matter if Tom Clary is the owner of this site. It isn't a big secret that I don't like and have little use for someone with a red 1970 Chevelle here, but if his research opened up new doors on "pilot" cars for 1970 LS6's (even though I don't own the car any longer) you better bet I'd be interested..whatever his motivation for doing it.

I have no idea of the paperwork availble...sales receipts, paperwork from the design of the molds, anything tying that particular car to DH..no matter how small..Sure it isn't a buildsheet, but if only using an old memeory then again IMO it is shaky research and shakier to lay that conclusive of a claim. Isn't it possible it is another car??? After all I'm sure the cars would have been similar anyway as everyone is trying to get a competive advantage and "stealing" from one another...much like 30 years from today saying a car is a Dale Jr. car vs. another Chevy NASCAR driver.

[Charley Lillard]

Marlin..Greg makes valid points. It was said there were two 68's but if there were we need more info.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea who he is or his motivations..Frankly "who" he is really shouldn't be an issue...The issue should be if his evidence and research methods are credible and they open the door to other research or another conclusion. Just like it shouldn't matter if Tom Clary is the owner of this site. It isn't a big secret that I don't like and have little use for someone with a red 1970 Chevelle here, but if his research opened up new doors on "pilot" cars for 1970 LS6's (even though I don't own the car any longer) you better bet I'd be interested..whatever his motivation for doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, this post went over my head - I was just asking what paperwork is expected with a FC purchase. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Steve Shauger]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have no idea who he is or his motivations..Frankly "who" he is really shouldn't be an issue...

I totally disagree, based on this persons motivation/stake, he could be biasing/manipulating his evidence to suit his desired outcome. Cars are hard enough to document, but Funnycars by their nature morph into many configuration... especially after 35 years of abuse. In addition they must be reconfigured to meet the latest safety regs.

[Kim_Howie]

Troy, Where did you came up with this info???

Steve,

I agree race cars change over the years..this is why sound research is even MORE important..

So using your logic..should we then look at Tom Clary's motiviations?? If you are questioning and holding this "USA1" to a standard then why not Tom? After all Tom has publicily said it was a DH car, had business cards made up saying it, promoted not only this website with it, but I would bet other business ventures. Made money in some fashion off it being a DH car..This car has been one of the catalyst for Tom's notoriety, he has gotten press coverage (magazine and otherwise)as a result and let's be honest..If it isn't the DH car Tom has the proverbial "egg on his face." Not the place to be...especailly given his zeal in promoting it. I agree that looking at "Why" someone reveals any info is always in the back of "your" mind, BUT it can't squash if there are credible research based questions.

Again not bashing Tom, but like in a football game "you" can't play only one half and win a game

G S Carlson

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, what are you talking about? Call me, check your emails for my number...........RatPack.................

[RPOZ26]

Hey Hotair I speak for myself and have no marching orders,unlike you. If you would take the time to look at the facts you would see the truth. I have met some good people on this site,but if this is the way things are here count me out. I think Tom needs to speak for himself and tell the facts about the car. Ed

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/BelairSucks.gif

[resto4u]

This topic is unreal and makes me sick! Race cars were wrecked. frames and bodies repaired and replaced. Race cars change hands often and are stripped of parts and parts changed. Previous owners memories are foggy at best usually. Next to impossible to prove or not prove this and that! What a waste of bandwidth! I am done with this thread! Roger

[sYc]

I first learned about my car from a friend who sells classic cars. He gave me the guys name and number, which I used to inquire about the car. At the time, the owner told me he had 3 vintage funnycars, one a 1967 Dick Harrell flip top car. Even though he told me the DH car was not for sale, I asked if I could see it, which I later did. Not only did the guy have in his shop 3 vintage funnycars, but more racing and hi-performance parts then I have ever seen in once place. Everything from wheels, blowers, injection setups, 348 &amp; 409 engines, the list goes on and on.

While there we discussed at length the DH car. The car was in poor shape, the body in primer, no glass, portions of sheet metal missing, , the chassis in not much better shape, with a brackets for a radiator, hand brake, forward mounted engine brace, etc. The body had been stripped using a chemical stripper and a putty knife, at times going past the gel coat. He did tell me that in the removal of the paint is when they first saw signs of the car possibly being a DH car. Also, he had spoken with Don Hardy, who built chassis’ for Dick. Unfortunately he was not the type of person who was into taking pictures (documentation). While there he tried to sell me another early Camaro funnycar he had, but I told him I was only interested in the DH car, that if it ever came up for sale, I would be interested.

Fast forward a few months, I get a call from the guy, in desperate need of cash. He quotes me a price, and only gives me a couple of hours to make a decision. That afternoon we make the deal.
After getting the car back to my shop, and not having a clue about vintage funnycars, I begin searching the internet for information and pictures of DH and other vintage FCs. As we all do, I began buying any era magazine I could that had a pic of a DH FC in it. I too contacted Don Hardy. In addition, I purchased several individual pics off of Ebay and other sites. But it seemed, the more I learned, the more confused I became. The question kept coming up, how many 67/68/69 FCs did DH have? Fortunately two things happened that helped clear up a few things. I got to visit with Jim Kirby about his car and where it fit in, and the biggest break, I ran across Dave Libby. Once I began conversing with Dave, I felt I knew enough to begin the restoration process, but still by no means an expert on vintage FCs. Mo and I simply went by what we could see in the various pics, what was the simplest (sheet metal, etc) and what Dave was telling me. More then once I told Dave that once finished, I hoped he was not disappointed, that I would be satisfied if the car was 50-60 correct (due to the shape the car was in when I got it and my limited knowledge of FCs. Also, the guy who I bought it from said he bought it at a flea market somewhere around the Chicago area. Well, shortly after I bought the car, I talked with Bob Gibson (who lives in Springfield, IL, and is considered by most to be a vintage funny car guru) who told Mo and I that he had heard of an early Dick Harrell car being for sale in his area (this is the same Bob Gibson who discovered the “alleged” ‘69 DH funny car). In fact, the first show we attended (Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green) the car was parked in the American Racing Wheels booth, in which Bob Gibson was in charge.

The car was shown at the Hot Rod Reunion, then York, and then the biggee, the 2nd Annual FC Reunion at Etown, where Dave, Valerie and Pulde first saw the car. It was a special weekend, with many photos taken. The best part was listening to Dave as he walked around the car. A lot of things he complimented us on, others, such as the stance, no front sheet metal and the lack of nitro, he told me he would suggest changing. He told me he was well satisfied, that I had done well, with the car about 80% correct. IMO, the key moment took place while Dave, me, Mo and Marlin Spotts were having lunch and looking at pictures, not too far from my car. Dave asked if there had ever been any repair work done to one of the front fenders, which I replied I did not think so. Mo disagreed, went up and checked, and low and behold, repair work right where Dave said it would be. Seems Charlie Therwanger had a slight accident with the car. Since that time, Dave has appeared in several magazines standing by the car, and in a couple, answering questions about the car and its history.

While at Etown, Dave and I discussed something else, were there at least 2 ’68 cars, not counting the Kirby car. I felt there were at least two ‘68s, and 1 ’69, Dave said 1 ’68 and 2 ‘69s (more on the ’69 later). My theory is this. Judging by the photos, magazine articles, the video of the door car I have, I feel there were two early cars. The first one, most likely a ’67 Camaro, built in late ’67, one of the first one piece Camaro bodies ever produced, and needless to say, somewhat crude. And not out of the same mold as the second car nor the Kirby car. Then in the spring of ’68 the second car, the door car with the vanes on the rear deck. An interesting side note is a portion of “Agent 1320 Reports” article in SS&amp;DI magazine. “..the poor funny car guys, the ones who took delivery on their ’67 body shells six weeks before the ’68 announcements”. Also of note, a side note in the September issue of SS&amp;DI, where it says “The tricolor burgundy on the new Camaro was sprayed by Corky Larson of Phoenix, AZ, Harrell’s original hometown. The car took eight weeks and $12,000.00 to complete, and has run 7:80s at almost 190 mph against all kinds of tough competition. Since Dick has another similar car, he has appointed his top wrench, Charles Therwanger, to drive the new car”. Remember, back in the day, information contained in magazines was a lot more current then today. It is well documented the Red/Black car was running in early ’68. If the R/B car was simply redone, would it have cost $12,000 in 1968, and would Dick, who we know was over booked in ’68, taken the car off of the race circuit to completely redo the car?

To continue on with what Dave and I disagree with, he has gone on record saying there was one ’68 car, 2 ’69 cars, with the back-up car’s chassis used for the ’70 car. I say there were two ‘68’s, the R/B and the Burg, with the chassis from the Burg. car going under the ’70 and the body being attached to another chassis, which Steve Bimbi has a pic of from 1969. In 1968, Dick was only racing a funny car, in 1969 he was racing both a funny car and the ZL-1, thus seems he would have more need for 2 FCs in ’68 then in ’69. And I want to make it clear that I have nothing but the up most respect for Dave Libby. Even though I may disagree with him on some things from the past, he was there, I was not, so I will tip my hat to him for everything he has done for our hobby. Having the opportunity to spend time with Dave, visiting about my car has been a blast.

Now, can I say that I am 100% sure DH had 2 ‘67/68 car fliptop cars, and one of them is mine? No. Do I still believe that? Yes. But, as I have done for the past several years, I will continue to do research on my car. And to guarantee that no one gets “taken”, the car is not for sale (not that any one would want to own it). For now, it will simply remain another item in my personal collection of supercar memorabilia.

And now I see why Bill Porterfield removed the name Dick Harrell from ZL-1 #1. Some days it just is not worth it.

A few emails...

[ QUOTE ]

From: Ken Boje
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2001 5:00 PM
Subject: Funny Car

Rob,

Sounds like you have your hands full of a bundle of joy!

Could you pass this on to your dad. I was fortunate to talk to Dave Libby this week, he told me he is sure the funny car your dad has is Dick's red/original funny. I don't know how much he told your dad so far, but it seems the burgandy car was a leased car, being rebodied by Jim Kirby the owner with a 70 body for the 70 season, and he still owns it. Also, said Dick was killed in the 71 "mini" camaro, as I posted on the site. Does anyone have a compendium list of magazine articles compiled about Dick? I am trying to buy whatever article related to him I can fin, regarding his work with the different dealers.

Ken Boje


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Dear Tom,
Glad to hear all is well with you. I'm sure you are eager to get the car finished. If you would, please send me a few pictures of the car. I would be honored to sign the car and I too am looking forward to it's completion. I also would like to authenticate your car with a Dick Harrell Licensing Agreement signed by you and me, that is if you plan on having Dad's name on the car. Moreover, since it was you who guided me in the right direction in getting his name licensed &amp; trademarked and I am especially grateful that you helped me financially get the trademark started, I am only asking for $1.00 for a signed licensing agreement. I hope you will not be offended. I am honored by all that you have done to help keep Dad's name alive. Dale and I will not be at the Hod Rod Reunion, however, we do plan on being at the Funny Car Reunion in Englishtown the weekend of July 25, 26, &amp; 27th. How about you? Again, it is always so good to hear from you. Hope your family is doing well and everyone has their health.
Warm wishes,
Valerie

Valerie Harrell
Dale Pulde
H.P. Racing, Inc.
Sylmar, CA


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 8:22 AM
Subject: Fwd: (no subject)

Rob,
Just checking email before going to work. Thank you for getting back with me right a way. I hope to see you both again on of these days. Issues are still unresolved as far as the divorce goes, however, our home did finally sell and I paid all money from that to my attorney. Oh, and by the way, please tell your father that the DH Licensing Agreement fee ($1.00) is already paid in advance.
Thanks.
Warmly,
Valerie

Valerie Harrell
Dale Pulde
H.P. Racing, Inc.
Sylmar, CA


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: Fwd: Final proofs

Tom,
After Englishtown....... it would really nice to create a 1968 shirt for your car. Let me know. Here is what Dale helped me put together. I need to get Helen's approval, as well as Nickey.... your input please on this. I need contact info for these people too, if you have them to seek permission. As always, Val

PS: I have been meaning to tell you that I I just haven't had time to follow up on that licensing agreement for you. Just so you can have it for your records and to let others know that you have my full approval for what you have done with the car. Warmly, Val

[/ QUOTE ]

[Kim_Howie]

Troy, I would like to know where you got the info on my car being worked on by Dick Harrell at the Bristol. Are you sure it was mine or Harry K's car??

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[sYc]

Now that everyone else is telling all, I guess it is time I come clean.

<font color="red"> Chapter two. The 1969 car.

I have known about that car for several years, actually getting to see it while being stored in a shed in KC. In rough shape would be an understatement. I have also have spent considerable time visiting with the guy who first “discovered” the car, which happend to be the same guy, Bob Gibson, who knew of my funny car. As happened with my car, as he was stripping the car with a cheap hardware store chemical stripper, he discovered remnants of a prior paint job and lettering, which led him to believe it might have been one of Dick’s. But because he saw no historical significance in the history of the car, he finished stripping the car, painted it (I believe Blue) and went on about his business, finally selling the car to a racer in Las Vegas. Once again, as with my car, he felt no need to photograph what he saw. I have no reason to doubt what he told me, just think it is ironic the parallels between my car and the ’69.
In the past, there was quite a discussion on here about the ’69 car, and did Valerie have what she said she did, with a lot of the critics coming from the same folks who now say the ’69 is legit and mine is not. When you can some quite a bit of time, check out this thread.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9643/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

The good thing, the ’69 car would be easily to indentify, as the gentleman who worked for Dick in late ’68 through ‘69, who transported the car 1000s of miles as well as worked on it, is alive and well, living it New Mexico. That is Mr. Glenn Powell, who incidentally, was one of the sYc’s guests at SCR8. He has told me on more then one occasion he would be glad to look at the car and give his opinion.







Chapter three. The legal issues

First, in regards to the rights to the DH mark. If I had wanted control of the mark, I could have done so very easily. You see, when we first met, sometime in late 1999 or early 2000, I am the one who advised Valerie that she needed to register the mark, and GAVE her the money to do so, with no strings attached. I did this because I had learned the hard way about registered trademarks with the Yenko mark. Even though I had received written permission from the Yenko family to use the Yenko name, they could not give me permission to use the Yenko name in commerce, as a guy in Texas held those rights. Unfortunately I was unaware that there was a DHPC still operating in New Mexico, owned by Dick’s sister Betty Hall and her husband Charles. Betty is in poor health and Charles passed away not too long ago. The business is now being ran by their son Rick. Rick and Valerie have been engaged in a long running dispute, over several issues, including his rights to use the DHPC name in conjunction with his business, Their disagreement has entered the legal system, where, unless a compromise can be reached out of court, a Federal judge will decide things. My involvement in the case, as with other sYc members, has been as a friend to Rick. Unless I am called as a witness, I am not an actual part of the suit. It is because of our friendship with Rick, and the other legal action you are about to read about, that several sYc members, and their cars, have been bashed on the DH site.



Chapter 4, the Gibb trademark.

To me this is the most important issue, at least to our hobby that needs to be brought out into the open. A while back, it was reported on this site that Valerie Harrell had applied for the trademark rights to ALL things related to Fred Gibb Chevrolet. If approved, Valerie would have complete control over whom, and how the Gibb mark could be used. Anyone wanting to use the Gibb mark would need Valerie’s permission, including Helen Gibb, the city of LaHarpe, the sYc, etc. As soon as this was posted, I was swamped with calls, emails and PMs from folks wanting to know what could be done to prevent this. I assured everyone I would do some checking, which I did. At this past Vettefest, Helen and I had a nice visit about this. Helen, realizing just how damaging this could be to the Gibb name (look at what Valerie and friends have done to the DH mark), asked if the sYc would help her retain the rights to the Gibb mark, one she had been using for over 40 years. After checking with a few friends, we agreed to support Helen, as we felt it was the right thing to do. So “yes”, the sYc is directly involved in a legal issue, but over the Gibb mark, not the Dick Harrell mark.
</font>

[JoeG]

First off let me congratulate both sides for being able to type so fast------Unfortunately SYC had to make a public comment because of all the cage rattling and he said she said inuendos-------Just remember, This argument has rolled out into the street where all eyes are upon you so it's very easy to see thru private agendas if one keeps going up the same avenue on hot air alone----Alot of what's in the SYC statement was revealed by SYC when the car was first shown on the SYC site----IMO SYC has honestly represented the car with the information presented to them---

[Belair62]

Joe...you are right on. The agenda is not the car either....Ed...thanks for sharing your last self-serving useless comment on this board...

Tom,

Thank you for the reply..It makes for really good reading, and goes to showing your thought process. Please understand that my previous post and this one are simply as a researcher...nothing more nothing less..one who has had unique cars that were diffulct to document. So I certainly can appreciate the "leap of faith" you must have taken to secure such a neat car as the FC.

Repectfully though I must ask a few questions and make a few observations...

It doesn't appear from reading your post that there was really any concrete documentation saying that particular car was a DH car. It seems reading your post that the former owner said it was and you bought it based on that and then tried to research it back to DH. You even mention only being interested in the DH car.

2) It seems to me at least IMO that really the fact the car was a DH car was sort of taken for granted and maybe I'm reading into too much, but that you more or less worked to prove that the car was a DH car..vs. trying to prove or verify really WHAT it was. Another words if I go into something with a predispositon as a researcher more than likely that will be the outcome..even if evidence surfaces that might lead me in other directions.

3) While in your post you mentioned you aren't sure the car is a DH car or even that he had 2..it seems to me that both are only specualtions and as yet 100% unproven...yet you have been marketing the car as THE 1968 DH FC...which is a definitive statement without interpetation..How does this seem like the right thing to do as with something of such a historical nature? IMO it would make more sense to make a "Generic" notasolgia car and market it as such until the true identity could be learned. Isn't it possbile that the car is another , maybe equally interesting and historically valuable car..just not one with the instant marketing and recognition as DH?

4) I guess I'm alittle confused as reading your post and eagerly awaiting your response I expected a point by point rebuttal to the pics on the other website..not just a recap of the "how and why" you bought the car..I guess I'm looking for "more" when someone goes out on a limb as you have and say "this is THE car.." especially with the marketing that you have done with it. To many this is THE car because you say it is, and I guess for one I'm alittle disappointed knowing that there is are doubts.

5) You mention Bob Gibson and talk about his being the guru, yet IMO it seems like you are questioning his knowledge as he found what he feels is a 1969 F/C but the impression I get from your words are you feel it isn't real..I'm not sure how whether you want the reader to believe he knew your car was a DH car because he heard one was for sale or not..maybe I'm confused.

6) I guess for me you mention a big break came from this Dave Libby and he more or less initally verified your car as a DH car...yet now I guess he doesn't or at least has doubts? You two disagree over whether there are 1 or 2 cars, yet he was there and you by your own admission weren't... Wouldn't he be the best source for this?

Tom please don't take offense to my observations as they aren't meant to be critical of you the person. I personally would have approached this car completely different then you did as far as research goes that is all.

I guess in closing isn't it entirely possible that you have another car, and not DH's car from 1968? IMHO the right thing to do..I'm sure I'll catch hell for this..is to post a retraction and stop the marketing of the car until more is known, beginning the research process again. IMO Tom didn't try to deceive only that he went into it with a preconceived answer...

Respectfully,

G S Carlson

[moparts]

[ QUOTE ]
4) I guess I'm alittle confused as reading your post and eagerly awaiting your response I expected a point by point rebuttal to the pics on the other website..not just a recap of the "how and why" you bought the car..I guess I'm looking for "more" when someone goes out on a limb as you have and say "this is THE car.." especially with the marketing that you have done with it. To many this is THE car because you say it is, and I guess for one I'm alittle disappointed knowing that there is are doubts.


[/ QUOTE ]

You have to be a member of that group to view pics. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

I guess that would be hard to do at the moment..lol However I'm sure given cooler heads people would allow Tom and others to be members if it cleard this up..can't swear to it as I'm certainly not in the "in" over there or anywhere else but who knows...Hell I bet someone can/would forward the pics..I wouldn't let not being a member stand in my way if I were Tom or use that as a basis for an excuse....I'd want to find out more info on my car if I was Tom. He has a really neat old race car, one whose potential history there are credible questions about right now, but extremely cool nevertheless...I'd love to own it..love those '68's...

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, here you go, these were removed from that video we talked about earlier. Shows Dick working on that car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.......Call me I am at home and we can finish our converstation..........RatPack...........

PS call on the home phone, cell phone died...........

[Rat_Pack]

Kim, here is another picture showing the car without Dick standing there...........Notice there is no lettering on the front fender other than the Carter fuel pump decal.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.........RatPack.................


Tom, you made some good statements but I feel you need to post some pictures showing the car as you found it to put this topic to rest............RatPack....................

[sYc]

I think it is obvious there is a major difference of opinion, and agendas between sites, so rather then propogate the hatred between the two sites, I have instructed our moderators to delete all messages referencing the other sites or their owners.

Also, now that everyone has had a chance to voice their opinions on this subject, I am locking the thread.

Time to take this off line and move on to more enjoyable topics.