The Briggs Chevrolet Ray Allen 70 LS6convertible [Archive]

Mr70

01-05-2006, 05:27 AM

This is going to be a very interesting situation this year.
There are at least four LS-6 convertibles for sale right now.You would think that would lower their prices considerably but John's Mist Green on Ebay is showing a bid was placed at 650K today,so maybe one of these will hit the One mil mark,or very close to it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Don_Lightfoot

01-05-2006, 06:35 AM

Good points Rick. Now, is four of these cars good for the auction or a detraction from maybe just having one or two http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

After very carefull consideration which didn't seem to work, I ended up throwing a dart at a price board. I'm saying $710K.

Charley Lillard

01-05-2006, 07:24 AM

I think Don is the closest so far....

hvychev

01-05-2006, 08:05 AM

I will be suprised if one breaks $400K

Charley Lillard

01-05-2006, 09:07 AM

I think the Ray Allen car will do over 700K. I would take it over a average ZL1. What will do more, the Ray Allen LS6 or ZL1 # 9 ?

Rainer

01-05-2006, 11:02 AM

What I find very interesting is that the market value of LS6 ragtops is predicated on the assumption that the production total for these cars is near those of the rare hemi ragtop cars like Cudas. The figure that has generally been quoted is 18-20, and the argument often made by sellers is that if the production numbers of LS6 ragtops are comparable to that of hemi Cudas, then they should bring comparable money. What has been discussed elsewhere on this board is that the real number is likely closer to 200-300. I wonder what would happen if the corrected estimates were more widely circulated in collector circles, such as in the musclecar mags. I'm not saying the bottom would fall out of the LS6 ragtop market, but I'm sure that prospective buyers would have a different mindset believing that there may have been 300 of these cars built rather than 18.

Late BrakeU2

01-05-2006, 07:31 PM

I would love to see those LS6 cars knock the cover off the ball,which brings up a question-who/what/where sets the standard of the perceived value on these?.Is it established annually at BJ now? If the verts pull 3,4,500k,does that push like hardtops into six figures automatically? Seems like the BJ theme is heavily weighted to Detroit iron now,there weren't really all that many unique muscle cars last year so this should be quite a show.

Stuart Adams

01-05-2006, 07:40 PM

I say the LS6 will do more... Some of the numbers posted here seem really low, if the number starts stalling at 300 K there will be a shi_ load of people jumping in to steal it, then it will go up fast, IMO.

Canucklehead

01-05-2006, 09:16 PM

So if the # of LS6 converts match approx. the hemi cuda converts, how does the LS6 hardtop rank up to the hemi cuda hardtop production #'s. Hemi cuda hardtop values are approching the six figures, so where would that put the LS6 hardtops?. You would think with the rareity they would be about the same price, but people seem to be Hemi crazy right now.

Bill Pritchard

01-05-2006, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hemi cuda hardtop values are approching the six figures

[/ QUOTE ]

Approaching?? Better check auction results the past couple years http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

olredalert

01-05-2006, 10:06 PM

------It makes sense that LS6 coupes will do over $100,000 as I dont have my car there at the auction this year. I, of course sold it LAST year. Believe Id buy it back for what I sold it for now......Bill S

hvychev

01-06-2006, 12:05 AM

man, when is this crap going to end? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Bill Pritchard

01-06-2006, 12:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Believe Id buy it back for what I sold it for now

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd gladly buy back my Hemi Challenger for what I sold it for 11 yrs ago http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Charley Lillard

01-06-2006, 12:40 AM

I would gladly buy back any car I sold 5 years ago. I think there are too many LS6's, Hemi Cudas etc for prices to be where they are. I think the Ray Allen car is in a special class by itself over other LS6 converts because of what it accomplished.

camarojoe

01-06-2006, 12:46 AM

I'm not a mopar guy, but i know its harder to find the parts to correctly restore a basketcase Cuda or Challenger, etc. than an equally devastated Camaro or Chevelle. Not only are there far less available parts out there, the stuff that IS out there commands prices that some of us pay for entire cars... Chevy guys are just now starting to see the insane prices for hard to find parts...5000.00 grilles, 3000.00 bumpers, 4000.00 hoods, air cleaners, etc. The mopar camp has been bucking up for the rare stuff for years, and therefore the prices of the finished cars are higher too... There is also far less repro stuff available, so when you see a nicely restored Mopar, most of the stuff is real deal NOS stuff, not totally catalog ordered repro parts...which you can't say about alot of the restored chevys at auction.

ORIGLS6

01-06-2006, 12:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the Ray Allen car is in a special class by itself over other LS6 converts because of what it accomplished.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly; but to me, the car would be at least twice as attractive ($$$) restored to full race trim. New, sitting in showroom condition that car was just another '70s musclecar.... When it hit the track it became the legend. Just a humble opinion.

Salvatore

01-06-2006, 01:20 AM

Thats a GREAT opinion Dennis! They should have done that. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Jeff H

01-06-2006, 01:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a mopar guy, but i know its harder to find the parts to correctly restore a basketcase Cuda or Challenger, etc. than an equally devastated Camaro or Chevelle. Not only are there far less available parts out there, the stuff that IS out there commands prices that some of us pay for entire cars... Chevy guys are just now starting to see the insane prices for hard to find parts...5000.00 grilles, 3000.00 bumpers, 4000.00 hoods, air cleaners, etc. The mopar camp has been bucking up for the rare stuff for years, and therefore the prices of the finished cars are higher too... There is also far less repro stuff available, so when you see a nicely restored Mopar, most of the stuff is real deal NOS stuff, not totally catalog ordered repro parts...which you can't say about alot of the restored chevys at auction.

[/ QUOTE ]

$2269 roofrail weatherstripping, $1300 door weatherstripping, $1200 sill plates. The Camaro IS in the neighborhood of Mopar stuff in parts costs but the final prices still lag behind. The difference is in the number of performance Camaros/Chevelles made vs the performance Mopars made and that's probaly what keeps the prices lagging behind.

Charley Lillard

01-06-2006, 02:03 AM

I also wish it had been left in race trim. It can always be changed back.

Chevy454

01-06-2006, 02:11 AM

That's the smartest thing I've heard all day, clill...I sincerely wish *more* cars would stay in as raced condition...if I were buyng, it would be worth a premium to me...

ANDY M

01-06-2006, 02:14 AM

Chrysler only made about a third of the Cuda, Challenger and other model cars compared to the Camaro and Chevelle, and nobody ever boasted about their Mopar never rusting. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif They were built by the worst assembly standards, where the quality was supposed to be inspected in, not engineered into the build.
I spent over a year filling vending machines in Detroit,including Dodge Main, Caddilac, Ford Wayne assembly, and other parts plants, and I can tell you that if you got a Mopar that ran, you were lucky, but it was still going to rust. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif
There was a reason why Chrysler was #3.
This is the real reason why Mopars are expensive. If you don't build as many cars, and the ones you do build fall apart and rust out so they don't last, the best you can hope for is a barn find. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif JMHO

Late BrakeU2

01-06-2006, 02:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
They were built by the worst assembly standards, where the quality was supposed to be inspected in, not engineered into the build.

[/ QUOTE ]

And still holds true today.I really dig the whole SRT series,but as far as fit and finish,it's crap.People complain about GM interiors,I can't imagine a more spartan and cheap looking cockpit than on early 70's Mopars.

Hemis are awesome cars,but will always remind me of the Revell model of one I built as a kid,about the same degree of thought went in to the trim and detail.I can look at a classic Mopar for ten minutes and appreciate it,but on a GM car it would be an hour just because I enjoy the styling and detail on production items.

Salvatore

01-06-2006, 03:38 AM

WOW Andy you are right! My buddy is doing a lift-off-hood Dodge. Man is that expensive. Way to much money to do all that work. Those cars were really poorly made and it shows. Just got to keep drilling out spot welds. I guess when all the chevys were taken everybody else had no choice but to go to Mopar. They always ran pretty good (Mopars) but body, finish and assembly.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Mr70

01-06-2006, 03:52 AM

Lets not bash those bodies..they did make for a roomy Taxi cab. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Canucklehead

01-06-2006, 08:33 PM

Brings up a good question. What would you rather have a 70 ls6 ragtop that spent most of it's life being thrashed at the race track or a garage kept all original, both have the same low milage on it. Which one would be worth more and why?.

Stuart Adams

01-06-2006, 08:41 PM

If truly all original including paint, solid paperwork, low miles, etc. Hands down the original for me.

SS427

01-06-2006, 08:44 PM

At this point in time, EITHER ONE!!! However to be serious I would personally rather have the ex-race car just to set it apart from the others. The race cars are going up dramatically in value and the stock ones are already there. There are very few ex-race car converts out there so I think this car will likely set a presence and be worth considerably more. jmo
Rick

Supercar_Kid

01-06-2006, 08:45 PM

I'm goin' with the one that was raced. Same reason I'd take a broken Babe Ruth bat before I'd take an NOS one from the same season that he'd never used. Part of the car's aura and attraction is that race history. It is/was a part of drag racing history...and for that it's WAAAY cooler and WAAAY more valuable than a "regular LS-6 ragtop" at least to me.

A dozen or so LS-6 ragtops were "born" back in '70...but only this one went on to become a legend at the hands of Ray Allen & Co.

Now only if it had only been preserved in "as raced" trim...then you'd see some real heads spinnin' as it comes across the auction block.

musclecarjohn

01-06-2006, 09:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm goin' with the one that was raced. Same reason I'd take a broken Babe Ruth bat before I'd take an NOS one from the same season that he'd never used. Part of the car's aura and attraction is that race history. It is/was a part of drag racing history...and for that it's WAAAY cooler and WAAAY more valuable than a "regular LS-6 ragtop" at least to me.

A dozen or so LS-6 ragtops were "born" back in '70...but only this one went on to become a legend at the hands of Ray Allen & Co.

Now only if it had only been preserved in "as raced" trim...then you'd see some real heads spinnin' as it comes across the auction block.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well,as mentioned earlier on this boards,the car will supposedly show up with decals/stickers on it.Still not the same though... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict that Jim Brady's 'vert (item #1320 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif)will BREAK THE BANK and set a new record for '70 LS-6 ragtops.I'm thinking somewhere north of $500K to set the new standard.I don't think the world is ready for a million dollars just yet...but with the way people throw $$$ around for cars at B-J...that day is coming... I just don't think it's this year.

How Jim's car relates to the Ray Allen car I'm not sure.As important a piece of history as it is,I don't see it fetching the same numbers with it being restored back to stock instead of race-trim.

Just my opinion... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

ORIGLS6

01-06-2006, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Now only if it had only been preserved in "as raced" trim...then you'd see some real heads spinnin' as it comes across the auction block.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm a little partial to 'preserved' cars myself. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif But even if it had been restored to an 'as-raced' condition, PLEASE don't put vinyl lettering on it! The cars of that era were hand lettered with enamel paints and quill brushes. Although a little harder to find now, some of those guys are still around and still love to do things 'Old Style'!
A couple of F/C and S/S cars appeared at the past SCR's with 'Period Correct' lettering on them. To those two gentlemen I say THANK YOU! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Oops, almost forgot a little Z-28 too. Sorry Ken. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

sYc

01-06-2006, 10:43 PM

IMO, when you restore a race car back to stock, such as the Briggs race car, you are all but throwing it's race history out the window. What made this car special was its racing heritage.

Rainer

01-06-2006, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

A dozen or so LS-6 ragtops were "born" back in '70...

[/ QUOTE ]

In other posts here its been established that at least 30 of these cars have been accounted for to date, and a more likely production estimate is in the 200-300 range for total 70 LS6 ragtops produced (not double-digits as is often quoted).

ORIGLS6

01-07-2006, 12:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, when you restore a race car back to stock, such as the Briggs race car, you are all but throwing it's race history out the window. What made this car special was its racing heritage.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

The Illinois Lottery is up to $17.5MM and climbing. Next draw is Saturday night. If we win, we'll fly to Scottsdale and bring her back to the boonies and make things right!

Hell, we might as well buy the Green one too! Wouldn't that make a great tow vehicle?!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

musclecarjohn

01-07-2006, 01:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, when you restore a race car back to stock, such as the Briggs race car, you are all but throwing it's race history out the window. What made this car special was its racing heritage.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

The Illinois Lottery is up to $17.5MM and climbing. Next draw is Saturday night. If we win, we'll fly to Scottsdale and bring her back to the boonies and make things right!

Hell, we might as well buy the Green one too! Wouldn't that make a great tow vehicle?!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

PhilS

01-16-2006, 10:28 AM

I may have just missed it but I didn't see any et or trap speed info on the Ray Allen car. Does anyone have that info?

SS427

01-16-2006, 04:25 PM

According to Kevin it is 11:05.

http://community-2.webtv.net/musclecarkid/1970ChevelleSuper/

PhilS

01-17-2006, 08:35 AM

Thanks for the link.

LS6 RAT

01-17-2006, 10:22 AM

Canucklehead asks how the LS-6's production stacks up against the hemi's. With 4,473 1970 LS-6's built, they are much more plentiful than 1970 production hemi's for all models. What I can't understand is why with this volume of production that the prices would outperform other rare production Chevrolets, ie: 1968 L-88 'vettes 80, 1969 L-88's 116, 1971 LS-6's 188, 1970 ZR-1 25, 1971 ZR-2 12, etc, etc, etc.

Don_Lightfoot

01-17-2006, 05:55 PM

Question for anybody that happens to be at BJ. If you see the car, I would like to know how the Briggs car is decked out - stock trim or race trim or.......

Appreciate it.

Musclecarkid

01-18-2006, 01:13 AM

The Briggs car set the SS/EA record 2-3 times in the later part of 1970. It went 11.55, 11.50 and 11,33 for national records in its class. It had gone very low 11's in practice runs. In 72-73 Claude Urevig set records in the 10.97 sec range.
Car went 117-120's mph for 1/4 mile.

I sent enough stuff to the new owner to have most of the major graphics and decals made for the car.
As of last week the car was still being assembled so I'll be surprised to see how it looks also.
Hopefully it will have the Briggs Chevrolet and Truppi-Kling graphics done.

As far as comparing this car to other LS6 car values, IMO, The guy that buys this will pay more for its hisory than what other LS6 ragtops would sell for. We'll see come Sat night. Briggs car goes over before Jims car, so it can't hurt the value, but may push it up some.