eBay Impala SS-427

[PeteLeathersac]

I saw this '68 SS-427 on eBay and see in the notes a '67 SS-427 is coming available. . Although a decent feedback rating, I'd tread carefully if interested in the '67 as the bad engine stamping on this '68 would make you have to question anything available from this seller....check it out. ~ Pete

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-IMPA...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-IMPALA-SS427-RED-4-SPD-SS-427-Chevy-Chevrolet-nos_W0QQitemZ4602570241QQcategoryZ39405QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

[chevelleshack]

Have nothing but good things to say about Jon . Has been a real stand up guy & everything i have purchased from him for my 68 SS 427 have been better than expected !

[Belair62]

He definitely knows his stuff about those cars..

[PeteLeathersac]

Nice to know he's a good guy! . I expect he got it this way but you gotta' question this stamping? . I remember looking at a site online where a guy had a few 67 & 68 SS427 projects....I wonder if Jon bought the load or does he have a site? ~ Pete

[Bill Pritchard]

Does this guy live just outside Union Grove?? I know I bought some full size parts from a guy there about 15 years ago, and he was very knowledgeable and a good guy.

[Belair62]

Thats him...seems quite a few of us have neem there..he had some cool stuff and was completing a frame off on a Tahition or Tahoe Turq 67 SS 427 rag...that was quite a while ago. Pete ...no idea where he got this stuff but I don't "think" he has a site.

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice to know he's a good guy! . I expect he got it this way but you gotta' question this stamping? ~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

Pete: I guess you are talking about the out of line E, maybe the upside down 8 in the assembly date and also the oversized 6 in the partial VIN.

I don't know that those things would scare me at all. In fact a restamper would likely be more careful than the guys on the line were.

Admittedly, I haven't looked at too many Tonawanda (sp) stamps, mostly Flint, but gotta believe they broke stamps from time to time, and made do with what was on hand.

Just my two cents.

Lynn

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nice to know he's a good guy! . I expect he got it this way but you gotta' question this stamping? ~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

Pete: I guess you are talking about the out of line E, maybe the upside down 8 in the assembly date and also the oversized 6 in the partial VIN.

I don't know that those things would scare me at all. In fact a restamper would likely be more careful than the guys on the line were.

Admittedly, I haven't looked at too many Tonawanda (sp) stamps, mostly Flint, but gotta believe they broke stamps from time to time, and made do with what was on hand.

Just my two cents.

Lynn

[/ QUOTE ]

Great thoughts and points Lynn! . It was the dropped E that jumped out at me. . Upside-down digits are common enough also the big 6 could easily be as who'd care what they handed you if you needed one on the job? . Since all the '68 L36 suffixes were "I" something, I wonder if they when the engine date/suffix stamping was done they gang stamped only the date code including just the "I" of the suffix then individually added the E, H, J etc. when they knew what application it was destined for? . Viewing another partial Vin location would help confirm everything as if the big 6 was there too, it would be unlikely restamping of the date/suffix stamp only would happen....especially on a car needing resto? . I'm beginning to belive it's good and am interested in if they did leave out the E 'til the application was known? . Sorry to have pointed a finger at this but we may have learned something new? . Keep in mind this is only my 2 cents worth too....and 2 cents Canadian is only about 1.75 cents US! ~ Pete

[Belair62]

Verne can correct me but all 509 engines up to 1965 were a Q coded block. Frome the looks of the pad stamps it appears the scenario you speak of may have been true for those engines. After application was known the final letter was inserted...

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Verne can correct me but all 509 engines up to 1965 were a Q coded block. Frome the looks of the pad stamps it appears the scenario you speak of may have been true for those engines. After application was known the final letter was inserted...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bob....you must've both punched and stroked your 9'er to get it up to the 509??? . I know 409's are a Q suffix....are you saying they waited 'til the application was known to stamp the second suffix digit on these too? . I have a 348/409 under the back bench in the shop w/ XX suffix. . I haven't laid eyes on it in years but never found the XX on any listings and suspect this was a replacement unit like a CE....anyone know this one? ~ Pete

[Belair62]

OOps....yes by the looks of original stampings it appears the final letter of the suffix..i.e, B,C,A etc were done later...once Verne stops in he will set us straight...he can probably answer the XX question too...got a pic of that deck ?

[PeteLeathersac]

If the suffix application digit was being added after engine assy. this is sure news to me and glad we've beaten this one out! . As I've always understood the whole engine date/suffix was done w/ one gang-stamp hit....I wonder what all motors they did this added application digit on? . It's a good one to know too as a help spotting fake stamps since the dupsters would line up all the digits in one gang-stamp and Wham!
As far as the XX pad picture goes I'd have to move a mountain to get near it. . There's a whack of old racing snowmobiles in the way also old race car parts including a nose from a Kremer Bros. 962 Porsche....crazy what a fella ends up with! . I'd be interested what Verne knows though. ~ Pete

[Lynn]

Pete: I am not sure why some guys get all bent out of shape when someone posts pictures and questions authenticity. I agree with you, we have to question to get answers. I too am curious to see Verne's input on this one.

Too bad the tranny is long gone on this car, as you said, the partial VIN could be compared to the one on the engine.

Lynn

[Verne_Frantz]

Sorry, I've been away for awhile. All '61-'64 409s assembled at Tonawanda that were shipped to assembly plants had a suffix code beginning with Q. In '61 it was only a Q. I've sent Bob a couple photos of original block pad stampings which should illustrate the second letter being stamped later and a little out of line from the other characters. I've looked at a LOT of legit '09 blocks and can't remember ever seeing one that did not have the second letter out of line. I think that's good evidence to suggest that the "T0102Q" (for example) part of the stamp was done earlier in the assembly process, then when the final configuration and end application was determined, then the second letter was stamped. Besides changes of cams and pistons in the various short blocks, the final assembly of the engines could also include different brackets which may have been held under water pump bolts, harmonic balancers, exhaust manifolds, intakes, distributors, etc. I just don't know exactly "when" that first stamp was made.
As for the "XX" s, I believe replacement short blocks got that code (or lack of code). I believe if a complete engine assembly was purchased, it was stamped with the normal correct suffix, since it went through the same assembly line right through to the end before it was shipped. (it was a "spec" motor) Since short blocks weren't fully assembled, there was no way to know what the final configuration would be, hence XX.
I've also seen a few '65 409s with the J codes, and the same held true with them. The second letter was a little off. If I saw a "perfect" restored '62 '09 car and the full deck stamp was in line like it was all in one gang holder, then I'd be worried.
I don't know if you can pass that over to MKIV assembly, but it was a Tonawanda assembly practice through '65 on "W"s anyway......
Hope that helps.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Verne

[Belair62]

Thanks Verne http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif ..Pete keep in minde we were talking about 409's. As Verne said , I don't think this would apply elsewhere unless John Z had an opinion on that.

[PeteLeathersac]

Bob, Lynn, Verne....thanks! . I'm always happy to learn something and never knew of this added application digit situation....on the W motors at least. . Lets keep our eyes peeled on the Mk1V stamping pads and see what we can find? . If it was a Tonawanda practice on W motors it's sure a possibility on Mk1V stuff although you'd think it would be on the lower production motors, not an L36 like the eBay example? . So what's the consensus on this eBay one....although I initiated the finger pointing, after learning what we've discussed it may be legit? . Did the big cars have another Vin location that used the same gang-stamping besides the trans....cowl/heater box type locations?

And Lynn....I agree and don't understand either why some guys go offside when all a fella is doing is trying to get to the facts or uncover a truth?

Back on the subject of suffix codes, do you guys have any knowledge of Canadian suffixes that used numbers not letters? . I've seen it before and have a partial listing in an old Canadian book. . I can't recall what plant origin the motors I've seen them on were from but I remember looking up a small block once w/ suffix "77" and the listing I have noted a '67 283 which made perfect sense.

Thanks! ~ Pete