1963 chevy small block

[ssl78]

Did anybody ever hear of a 1963 327 block that where the casting number usually cast it says SUPER instead of a number

[Verne_Frantz]

Not until now. A pic sure would be nice...

[Salvatore]

John, Is there something in those tastykakes you are eating? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Must be the Italian Beef. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Making your eyes blurry! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Belair62]

I would love to see that too John...

[mssl72]

Definitely need pics on that.

[ssl78]

I talked to the guy last night he says he has owned it a long time. I am going in a week or to to see it. Will let everone know what I find

[Verne_Frantz]

Please don't forget to look for the casting date..........................or any Smokey Yunick signatures...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

What ever became of this? ~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

No Kidding!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

"SUPER"???????????????????????????

Why the F do people plunk down these albatroses then disappear????

Hey, I have a 409 block that has "Zora" ground into the side of the block. Anybody have the slghtest idea what that could mean?????? Is that some kind of astrological sign or something???? Is it worth more then the $30. bucks I paid for it???????

gimme a freakin break.......................

It was the Martians. After they built the Mayan temples and the pyramids, they f'd with our Chevy stuff...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Belair62]

Verne..John P did not disappear by any means...he is not a bullshitter either so I would love to hear the rest of this story too...

[Verne_Frantz]

FINE, I'm just TIRED of this BS

[Belair62]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif now chill out buddy...actually I bet its not the casting number but maybe a rebuilder punched that on the pad http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[ssl78]

I was in Florida for a couple of weeks just came back yesterday. I have to arrange to go see the engine since its about 800 miles away. When I find something out I will post it.

[Verne_Frantz]

I apologize. I haven't been feeling very well lately and my patience factor is at zero.

[Xplantdad]

Hey Verne,

John is the nicest person that you can meet...I also think you are the same type of guy. I enjoy reading all the information that you post about early 348-409 Chevy stuff.

I hope that you start to fell better soon! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Take it easy, my man!

[PeteLeathersac]

John, looking forward to whatever you come up with. . I take it the info you have is second hand at best so where did the 1963 and 327 parts come from? . Something rings about this Super thing....is it possibile it's an aluminum block? . Remember the G-S w/ an alum. 327 also the Xp rear engine car had one plus the ones offered to racers etc.
~ Pete

And Vern, the martians took the Chevy stuff as they know a Chevy engine conversion on the saucer is the only way to fly....especially with a fuel crystal! .
I always like to bug my Ford pals that Zora jumped ship from the darkside....after all the fun w/ the ArDun flatty motors, once he went Chevy he was hooked too! . Actually, didn't he dislike the W motors? ~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

Pete,
I've been, let's say, under a dark cloud for awhile myself recently, and it's unfortunately had a negative effect on me.
I've heard, or read somewhere that Zora tried to put a 409 in a '63 Vette, but for whatever reasons, it didn't fly. I've also heard, from a VERY unreliable source who claims to have worked with him, that he tried an aluminum block version.
What I DO know is that a 409 will fit perfectly in a '63 Vette, stock exhaust manifolds and all, including hood clearance. What a ride that never was!
Obviously, I was being tongue n' check when I mentioned that block I have.
I've been going through some trials lately. Still not out of the woods. I'm sorry if I came off like a jerk. And I apologize to John. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

And don't forget the flux capacitor http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[JoeG]

Verne you're gonna give Belair a woody talking about 409 vettes.....

[Belair62]

An aluminum 409 block Verne ???? Verne has been under the weather a bit for sure. I've BS'd with him a bit in the past couple days picking his brain about some small 409 detail...he's on the mend just fine...just gotta keep taking the damn pills !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Well, once a year everyone deserves a woodie......

HA, HA, HA!!!

Actually, If I hadn't just spent a ton of $$ on my Nassau Blue '62, I would have bought just such a car from FL last year. It's now owned by one of the owners of E-town. Original Saddle Tan split window with a '63 '09 installed in '64!!! That car is a 24 hour woodie! No Viagra needed!
If I owned that car, I'd take it to an NCRS meet......just to upset the tunnel-vision! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Xplantdad]

Verne and John P., two cool guys! Oh yea, you too Gags! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
That car is a 24 hour woodie!

[/ QUOTE ]

Every mans dream!

[Enoch]

Vern, Zora fought the 409 going into the 63 vette. He said that it was too heavy and the car would not handle.

Don't worry about that black cloud you just got to hang around some of us wind bags and it will blow away soon enough. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif
Rich.

[Verne_Frantz]

Pete,
I don't know if Zora actually disliked the W engine or not. I hope there are more people out there who might offer more incite than I, but I do know that he was in charge of their development and was the man behind the scenes working to make the 348 a Nascar winner from '58-'60, working closely with Jim Rathman and Rex White through SEDCO to be close to Daytona.
Here are a few quotes from Zora himself:
"In '58 I start to work with Buck Baker. In '59 two things happan: opening of speedway in Daytona, and two preliminary races, two heat, 125miles each. Both races, three Chevrolet 1-2-3 and second race also 1-2-3........Then I decided engine was good enough to go, 348 cubic inches, not supposed to be racing, right?...........Jim Rathman ran 348 cubic displacement engines, part of my development. It became my development, and Dick Keinath came to my group and was instrumental in 348 and 409 and 427, but not MK II. That was just Dick. The 427 exist only for drag racing, the Z-11. Identical block like 409, but 427 cubic inches."
"Cole and Barr (Harry Barr, chief engineer) came up with idea - to establish Marine Division. Marine Division was, at that time, subterfuge. Marine Division was organized under me and provide means and engineering budget to funnel money, material and work for the racers........348 Marine engine. I was director of high performance including Marine engine. But I will tell you, in 1960 eighty percent of the starters at Daytona were Chevrolets. And one failure was one car that pick up debris and burst crankcase. Mechanically, all cars were scot-free. That proved the 348, started out as a truck engine, was a very good racing engine also."

Those are all the comments I could find regarding Zora and the W engine. I'll have to disagree with Zora's last statement about the W starting out as a truck angine. I have the original 5 design objectives for the new engine (and I wrote an article about it back in '88). The objectives clearly stated both passenger car and truck applications from the git-go, with the ability to adapt to high performance equipment.
Did Zora dislike the W? I still don't know the answer to that.

Verne

[PeteLeathersac]

Vern, keep your chin up w/ life's trials....been there, done that....actually still there doing that??? .
Great digging on the Zora 'W' stuff....sure sounds like he had a lot more to do w/ the W-motors than most of us know? . A lot of this happening during the 'racing ban' time period could explain how it's not been common knowledge over the years? . Love the Marine Division thing....man, GM could sure use a few Ed Coles and Harley Earls these days! . A few like Vince Piggins and Pete Estes could go a long way to turn things around for the General too? . With the mix including the guys like Smokey Yunick and racer/dealers types like Yenko and Gibbs, it's no wonder how GM was at the top o' the heap back in the day! . Off topic, GM could use a few Bill Mitchells and Larry Shinodas now too....wonder what their new Camaro would've been like? . Anyway, I also remember reading something about the W-motor being tried in a 'Vette mule and Enoch's note on Zora fighting the 9'ers in the 'Vettes is what I recall too....the handling being his major concern, not the motor itself. . Considering this and your info on his involvement in the W-motors would sure make the alum. block rumour more of a possiblity? .
~ Pete

[Verne_Frantz]

Just for added interest, the '63 Chevrolet engineering specs say to add 45lbs to the curb weight for a 409 over a 283. That of course would have to include the dual exhaust and larger radiator....and another quart of oil!

In an interview with Dick Keinath, the guy who got to use a blank sheet of paper to design the mystery motor, he stated he was also given the "aluminum project" development, but he only spoke of aluminum heads and intakes for both the SB Corvette and the Z-11. He never mentioned a block. Although we know an aluminum 377cid was built. It's still a mystery.

I agree with you. I think the General would be doing a lot better today if they had a few of the old gearheads in key positions. The cars we love were designed by stylists and built by engineers. Today's Chevys are designed by lawyers and built by accountants.

Verne

[Verne_Frantz]

Just curious......is there any follow-up on this?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hey http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Verne_Frantz]

Marlin, I'm just curious. It sounds like something interesting. Something odd. Why the frown? I hope that wasn't directed at me.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
Today's Chevys are designed by lawyers and built by accountants.

Verne

[/ QUOTE ]

The poor bean counters taking the rap again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Chevy454]

You're an easy target!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I know, it's my stellar grammar http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Xplantdad]

Knowing how to spell is a good thing! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Enoch]

Hey Marlin I didn't know your Grammar was a star http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif was she in silent movies??
(See we cant read in pa either)

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't even know how to respond to that one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif