$200K 1969 Z-28

[jfkheat]

An 11,000 mile Z-28 just sold for $205,000. This is crazy.
James

[DarrenX33]

Notice the rif-raff around the bidder. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Wish I could have seen this car in person. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[MosportGreen66]

Charley was on screen the entire time with the new owner.
I find it tough to believe that car has NEVER been fluffed.
CLill, shead some light on the "fluff" factor of this Z28.

I am bringing my survivor Z28 to B/J next year... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]

Wish I could have seen this car in person. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm right there with you Darren!

[DarrenX33]

Kenny P was right there to with Charley. I'm sure he has some good input as well.

[MosportGreen66]

Daytona/Black/Black '69 Z28 w/ X-ram @ $100,000 even.
Could potentially be a nice buy for the money!

[bashton]

And it was Green! A beautiful piece of Camaro history indeed...but it was green!

[MosportGreen66]

Bashton... that was my pun. My Z28 is a 35K original mile car, fathom green/light medium green.

[DarrenX33]

Green stinks.

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
Green stinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except when you can fold it....

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Charley was on screen the entire time with the new owner.


[/ QUOTE ]

I missed that, but I did see him walking past the bidder during the Fantasy Bid for the Woody. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hi Bob! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rita

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charley was on screen the entire time with the new owner.


[/ QUOTE ]

I missed that, but I did see him walking past the bidder during the Fantasy Bid for the Woody. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hi Bob! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rita

[/ QUOTE ]

Charleys getting a LOT of air time... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charley was on screen the entire time with the new owner.


[/ QUOTE ]

I missed that, but I did see him walking past the bidder during the Fantasy Bid for the Woody. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hi Bob! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rita

[/ QUOTE ]

Charleys getting a LOT of air time... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Any shots of his new Camaro?
Get back to work Cousin Bruce http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Xplantdad]

I'll get 'em tomorrow...okay Dan? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

I'll have a new neighbor from this site, soon...I'll let HIM spill the beans. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll get 'em tomorrow...okay Dan? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

I'll have a new neighbor from this site, soon...I'll let HIM spill the beans. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

All in good fun Bruce!
Take your time buddy.

[Charley Lillard]

The green Z was not fluffed. There was some wrong stoff from mainly maintainance over the years. Master cylinder was wrong, heat shield under carb etc. The Z and the Chevelle were put in storage in about 1980.

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
Except when you can fold it....

wilma

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I will drink to that. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Z-11 396]

[ QUOTE ]
. The Z and the Chevelle were put in storage in about 1980.

[/ QUOTE ] <<< CHARLEY >>> IS IT GOOD TO STORE CARS FOR THAT LONG A TIME http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif,IT MUST TAKE ALOT OF SPECIAL TREATMENT TO SET UP A CAR FOR THAT LONG OF PERIOD. SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU STILL GET DRY-ROT, AND HAVE TO CHANGE OUT STUFF.....KASEY

[SamLBInj]

Ive been dealing with some medical problems with my Dad so Ive been out of the loop here for about a month...Interesting to hear a low mile Z got 200K...Where would that put my 100 percent original black JL-8 with less mileage? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Xplantdad]

Hey Sam, welcome back http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Hope all is well with your dad now!

[427TJ]

Probably somewhere in between KA-CHING and CHA-CHING.

I have long-since said farewell to my dream of owning a '69 Z (snif, snif). Well, I could always put the farm in hock...

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Sam, welcome back http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Hope all is well with your dad now!

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, Still dealing with it and one more operation this week to fix the screw-ups they did the last 3 times..He's 79 and outworks everyone in my company but this is really taking the starch out of him..

[KENNY_PASCOE]

I HAD NUMEROUS PEOPLE ASK ALL WEEKEND IF THIS WAS MY OLD CAR. MY CAR HAD 18K MILES AND WAS A VERY UNMOLESTED CAR. THE 11K MILE CAR HAD ITS SHARE OF ISSUES AS MOST HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED HERE ON THIS BOARD.I COULD ADD TO THE LIST BUT I'M NOT ONE TO THROW STONES. A GOOD ORIGINAL CAR? YES. WORTH $205K? WELL TO SOMEONE IT WAS. AS CHARLEY ADDED EARLIER IN THIS POST, THE NEW BUYER KNOWS WHAT HES DOING. JUST MY .02 CENTS... KP http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Larry Christensen and I looked this car over pretty closely and here's what we came up with. Here's a list of stuff that was not right so all of you can decide for yourself. I did not like the worn pedal pads. A low mileage car would have pristine pedal pads. This was not a cowl hood car either but yet one was installed? Speedo cable plug was knocked out for wires to run through this hole, There were signs of paint work and clear coating too. Have at it guys, here's the list of issues.

Jerry
1. pedal pads worn
2. spiral shocks missing
3. walker replacement exhaust system
4. 3/4" holes in the core support for hood pins
5. cowl hood was installed, it's not a cowl hood car
6. none of the OEM cowl hardware is there.
7. repro air cleaner with chrome lid
8. intake has been off and there are flat washers under the intake bolts
9. 68 Z28 style smog pump with pressure relief valve
10. smog hoses were replaced with regular hose and non factory stampings
11. water pump replaced
12. master cylinder replaced
13. engine lift hooks and vacuum advance hose clip missing
14. GM glass washer bottle on the fender well
15. black replacement grille that was painted silver
16. has 1970 repro style Firestone F70x15" tires.

[af1fe]

This is exactly what I was talking about! Alot of smoke and mirrors out at BJ. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Just thought about something else, I suspect that the Brandenburg Z28 in the front of my book with probably be worth in the $400-500,000.00 range now. That car has 22K on the odometer and has no issues with changed or replaced parts. Still sports it's original flat hood too.

Jerry

[Kim_Howie]

Jerry,I think we need to bring "Litte Hoss" out and have match race at the reunion this year!!!!! Kim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Kim,

Yes we do! I am glad I'm retiring the Stickler Z28 after this season. By the trends I am seeing the money being thrown at these cars is off the charts. It makes me wonder if I could retire with a sale of the Old Reliable Z28? I am building a new 67 Z28 for Stock Eliminator and it will be fun to run a car under my own identity.

Jerry

[Kim_Howie]

Sounds good !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[RamAirDave]

So if that green 11K mile Z brought $205K, where would that put the 1800 mile black, stripe delete RS Z?

dave

[Mr70]

In my garage if I could..

[Hylton]

I'd be surprised if anyone can pull that car away from Maksym.

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
So if that green 11K mile Z brought $205K, where would that put the 1800 mile black, stripe delete RS Z?

dave

[/ QUOTE ]

In a setting like BJ with Liquid bidders outrageous is a relative term.Makes you wonder what the Estes car would command there..

[Charley Lillard]

Anyone thinking they can match the price this Z28 got just needs to step up to the plate and sell their car at no reserve. Any takers ? Think Richard Maksym will put his up at no reserve ? I don't have the balls to let my prized posession go at no reserve. This is about taking chances. Is Jerry going to put Old reliable up at no reserve and let us scrutinize it very closely ? Will he put his Z28 up at no reserve ? This green Z28 took a chance and hit a home run. Most of what Jerry listed wrong with the car appears related to adding a cowl hood and maintainance. Jerry's car also has had a cowl hood added and paint work done. No big deal.

[Jeff H]

It seems to be more of an issue about the car being a low mileage(11,000 miles isn't really that low) and untitled car. It obviously isn't an untouched car so that leaves people wondering why it sold for $205K. We could guess and speculate all day, but this situation won't happen again so why bother. I know of a lower mileage 69 Z28 in my area. I'm not gonna tell the guy his car is now worth $205K just because one sold for that at BJ. His car is title in his father's name(the original owner) so it can't be compared to this dealer car. Just imagine what this dealer car would have gone for if it was truly untouched and untitled! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
We could guess and speculate all day, but this situation won't happen again so why bother. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff:

YOu may be right, but I remember thinking this market peaked out when John Berry's 5,000 mile white Z/28 sold for $29,500 a few years ago. Car is featured in Jerry's book.

Then it showed up for sale a few months later in Hemmings with an asking price of $39,000, and I thought, well surely this is the peak, assuming the seller got something close to that.

Now look. Also must consider that if bidding reached $205k, there had to be at least one other individual willing to pay about $200k, or the bidding wouldn't have gotten where it is.

Charley makes a good point. Hard to hit a home run without taking the risk of striking out.

Lynn

[DarrenX33]

I recently had this discussion with another member. I remember when I went to Volo to have my Z/28 appraised at $16,900. Perhaps foolish but at the time I never imagined that the car would be worth double. And considering how many were produced. Now its triple. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I have learned to never say never...

[Mr70]

I do like the 1969 Z/28.
But I do not understand those that say it was a rare or low production option?
There was a delay in the production of the new 1970 Camaro bodystyle,so they had to build the 1969 Camaro bodystyle longer then anyother,almost 6 months longer,all the way to February 1970.
They built 206,837 8CYL 1969 Camaros of which 190,971 were Hardtops.
20,302 of those were built with the Z/28 option.
That's the highest Z/28 optioned production between the years 1967-1972.

<u>Z/28 Totals:</u>
*1967-602
*1968-7199
*1969-20,302
*1970-8733
*1971-4862
*1972-2575
That year doesn't seem like a low production year to me? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[SamLBInj]

Out of those 20 thousand there are still over 75 thousand on the road and another 50 thousand on ebay for sale http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
But I do not understand those that say it was a rare or low production option?


[/ QUOTE ]

Who said that?

[Stuart Adams]

The guy paid 200K for the car, doesn't mean every other one is going to bring that. If a seller thinks his can then put the price on it and see what happens. I think we all get caught up into this. Like Charley said the seller put it up at No reserve and did well, the educated buyer wanted it, so there you go. Simple as that, in my mind it does not have any bearing on what my 69 SHOULD bring today. There were many cars that sold for HALF price of cost. Hope the seller and new owner, Fred, are happy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[69SS350]

Something really puzzles me about this 11K mile car.

It was mentioned that the car had yearly maintenance done to it by the Chevy dealer where it was stored.

If the car truly had 11k miles on it, why would the exhaust need to be changed?

Why would the spiral shocks need to be changed??

And who would change-out the plastic windsheild washer bottle with one that came on a '63 Impala????

And the wear on the pedals doesn't sound logical either.

I have seen many 1969 Camaro "survivor" cars, one locally as a matter of fact, with 25K miles on it, and it doesn't have half the things changed like this car.

The pedals, original chambered exhaust and spiral shocks look great.

Additionally, I don't hear of any documention on this 11K mile car also.... Was there a P.O.P., sales docs, etc???

I'm not throwing stones, and yeah I'm jealous (I wish I had 200K+ to blow on a Camaro), but this car seems to have some real issues that will never be resolved, unless one of the previous owners steps up to the plate and tells the real story.

[Charley Lillard]

That was one persons opinion on pedal wear. If you are the service manager of the dealership in 1980, maybe you figure the car needs new shocks. These were not Camaro people.

[Chevy454]

Heck fire, if you've ever driven a car with spirals you *do* think it needs new shocks! LOL!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Stuart Adams]

I can see it next year, 1000 Z 28's at auction for people dreaming of 200k, LOL. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[PPPJJJFFF]

[ QUOTE ]
Larry Christensen and I looked this car over pretty closely and here's what we came up with. Here's a list of stuff that was not right so all of you can decide for yourself. I did not like the worn pedal pads. A low mileage car would have pristine pedal pads. This was not a cowl hood car either but yet one was installed? Speedo cable plug was knocked out for wires to run through this hole, There were signs of paint work and clear coating too. Have at it guys, here's the list of issues.

Jerry
1. pedal pads worn
2. spiral shocks missing
3. walker replacement exhaust system
4. 3/4" holes in the core support for hood pins
5. cowl hood was installed, it's not a cowl hood car
6. none of the OEM cowl hardware is there.
7. repro air cleaner with chrome lid
8. intake has been off and there are flat washers under the intake bolts
9. 68 Z28 style smog pump with pressure relief valve
10. smog hoses were replaced with regular hose and non factory stampings
11. water pump replaced
12. master cylinder replaced
13. engine lift hooks and vacuum advance hose clip missing
14. GM glass washer bottle on the fender well
15. black replacement grille that was painted silver
16. has 1970 repro style Firestone F70x15" tires.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting observations Jerry. I didn't see the car. But based on your observations. I don't see how how this car qualifys as a "True Survivior". 200k for that car is alot of coin. JMHO. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Salvatore]

I agree with you Pat. $205,000 even if it was perfect. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[amuseme]

No one has mentioned the most obvious reason for the pedal wear, shocks,etc... just how hard were those 11,000 miles put on?

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie brings up many good points here. Yes, you do have to step up to the plate in the seller's seat. You can hit a home run on a sale and it can go the other way too. I've seen that happen many times. In the case of this 69 Z that sold for over $200K, I think it was a dealer that bought the car? Maybe Charlie would know better about who the players are here and can fill us in. Dealers and sellers that are in the business have a much better idea about the market and where to sell. People who don't do this everyday have a much better chance of getting burned. Experience is the key. I would not put the 69 Z28 survivor that I purchased up for sale without a reserve. I work too hard for my money and I'm not going to throw it away on a pipe dream that I'll get $200K for my car but I want fair market value. Most of the nice cars don't even go through auctions, they are sold privately.

Getting back to the green car that sold at BJ. There were more than maintenance issues here. I have seen dozens of survivor cars over the past 20 years or so with more mileage than 12K and in every case, 95% of the original parts were still on the car. 69SS350 brings up very good points about the car as I stated earlier. These are valid issues but if the buyer does not care, than he takes the risk. Barrett Jackson does not set the everyday sales figures for these Camaros but it does raise the sales barometer to a higher level. Count on that.

One last point, after looking through my appraisal records over the past 10 years, every original paint low mileage Camaro that I've inspected has still had it's original exhaust on the car. Think of it this way, if the paint lives in an environment that is healthy to the vehicle, the exhaust system will survive too. Most parts fail because they are in the everyday hostile elements. Cars that live a pampered life will fair much better. Make sense? As to the pedal pads, I looked at the ones in my race car, I have 12 seasons (12 years) of letting the clutch out, braking at 122mph, shifting gears and beating the hell out of the car. The Srickler car's pads are in mint condition compared to the ones in the green Z28. This is one issue that would make me wonder about the true mileage of this Z28. Many certified appraisers look for the same tell tails

[Lynn]

OK Jerry, now you are giving away trade secrets. Rick's First Generation will have a switchboard meltdown tomorrow with guys ordering pedal pads!!

Seriously, I for one really appreciate your input. I am almost certain this car was previously discussed either here or at Camaros.net.

I always appreciate Charley's input, and respect his opinion. OK enough butt kissing for now.

Lynn

[budnate]

side note- having worked at a Chevy dealer as kid in the 80's, for the most part the goons that twist the wrenches were not car people it was just a job and somehow they stuck at it over the years and the older they were the less of a car guy they were and they could care less about how neat a piece they were working on, I was in heaven...

and most were more than happy to pull a perfectly good part and toss them to get a little more time out of the ticket.

I can see all the items changed on this Z no problem, as it was probably pulled out of the basement or where ever and was to have anything changed that looked bad...I did not look at the pedal pad wear so I will not go there.

we had many old customers that would swing in yearly and just say do what ever it needs..and boy did they... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Exactly...

[budnate]

one more side note- this is a little off the subject but I had a flash back....being a poor kid working at the dealer...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...little things that made our cars more correct and no one would care anyway...well I remember trading the deluxe pedals to get the stainless trim in one car for my base stuff plus the rubbers were nice and not worn on the corner of the brake pedal... and being I was pretty tight with a certain boss, I had access to things and places not many did...so maybe the lot lizard did some switcha roo action...been known to happen... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...

[/ QUOTE ]

How scarry is this? Ever wonder if parts were switched
with lesser quality parts ( non-high performance )? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

I recently took my Cobra in for some work. When I got the
car back ( in two days ), the transmission was grinding and
it honestly felt like another box. Now you did it! Got me
thinking those bad thoughts about dealer service
technicians. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...we did some things that were not exactly cool...when a nice clean muscle car came in..well we switched stuff off them onto our cars...

[/ QUOTE ]

How scarry is this? Ever wonder if parts were switched
with lesser quality parts ( non-high performance )? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

I recently took my Cobra in for some work. When I got the
car back ( in two days ), the transmission was grinding and
it honestly felt like another box. Now you did it! Got me
thinking those bad thoughts about dealer service
technicians. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


what year Cobra???? when I had mine last year I heard all kinds of bad things about the newer 5spds and how little banging they took before they were grinding gears...guys were even going after Ford legally about it on the Stang boards...the sad part is you probably have the orig box in it but the lot lizard or the mechanic went around the block in it and punished it...you couldnt make me take a perf car to the dealer if I owned one...been on and in and seen to many banzi runs in cust cars... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

hey that was fun..go park car..hey Fred you wanna drive a real fast Cobra...yea...well that green one in the corner is the fastest one I have ever been in...no sh*&amp;...10 mins later..varoom out the gate it goes... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

sorry if I am making you feal bad...some times the truth stings a little.

B.

[camarojoe]

The bottom line is the car is sold, it was a legitimate purchase done with a no reserve auction, and the results could have been the total opposite.. the seller took a risk, as did the buyer, and both are happy. It's easy for everyone to ridicule and analyze everything a week after the auction, fuss over detail/replacement items, nit-pick, speculate, and try to somehow relate it to their own personal cars that have been sitting in the garage the whole time this Z was on the block for sale with no reserve....but the fact remains that the buyer and seller are both happy with the end results. B-J is a unique situation for a buyer in that regardless of what he pays, there will be 500 experts in the peanut gallery afterwards to comment on the sale, and why the seller/buyer were smart, foolish, etc. I know i would much rather buy a car privately and spare myself the intense scrutiny of people that were in no way connected to the sale. My thoughts are that many cars were sold for what seemed like an exuberant amount, but there were also many cars that sold for prices that were surprisingly low... just depended on who wanted what, and who they were bidding against... as well as who happened to be around when a particular car came across. If you ran the same 900+ cars through another auction this week, many of the results would be completely different, and everyone would be all up in arms about the selling price of a different group of cars. JMO.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[hvychev]

I think that about covers it. Case closed.

[Jeff H]

And don't forget, it takes 2 interested parties to run up the price. So even if the winner didn't contniue to bid that high, the 2nd high bidder was willing to go almost as high. Supply and demand.

[SamLBInj]

Sometimes things make you say hmmm http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif....Now imagine if me and Tony (Mr.T) owned a dozen or so 69 Z/28's between us and we took one and bid the hell out of it at BJ, all the way to 300K, then everyone who owns one now thinks his or hers is worth that or a percentage of that price depending on how thiers compares. Now me and Tony have 11 more of these hot little cars that are worth 5 times as much as they were a day before. No better exposure and what a marketing gimick. All for the small fee of the premiums. Better still if some drunk runs the price up to more than you counted on and he gets stuck with it....Just a point to ponder here.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Jeff H]

Auction results have nothing to do with a car's listing or selling price though. Auctions happen at the spur of the moment. We could all list our 69 Z28's at $205K now and I bet 99.9% of them won't sell.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
Auction results have nothing to do with a car's listing or selling price though. Auctions happen at the spur of the moment. We could all list our 69 Z28's at $205K now and I bet 99.9% of them won't sell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true, would you sell you car for 130K right now? thats more than any other Z before this years BJ...You know one just sold for over 200K so why give yours away....Its all relative, Einstien wasnt stupid...$=Z/28 squared

[SamLBInj]

How much have prices on decent Z/28's increased since BJ...those 35-40K cars are now alot more...

[Charley Lillard]

I spoke to the second highest bidder. He was very bummed that he did not get the car. He might even try to buy it from the high bidder. He bought the L78 69 convert last year and a couple years ago he bought the killer low mile 68 L78 Camaro.

[69SS350]

Do the guy a favor, and tell him to contact Jerry.
Sounds to me that the car Jerry has is tens times better than what was at B/J.

IMHO......

[Charley Lillard]

The Barrett-Jackson car has 11000 miles. I think Jerry's had over twice the mileage. The guy wanted the 11000 mile car. If he wanted to fluff it he could make it look correct, orig. and have half the miles. I'll take the 11000 mile car... But in the real world I'll do something else anyway.

[Jeff H]

Sam, there have been quite a few sales of 69 Z28's over $100K in the past year or 2. This one at BJ may appear to take up the price of similar cars, but in reality I don't think there are too many low mile cars that were never titled. The fact that it was never titled seems to be the big selling point on this car(I'm not sure why, that has no extra meaning to me). The auction will cause prices to go up like it always does but it's really hard to see what the actual effect is if you aren't comparing apples to apples. But it's really up to buyers to what they are willing to pay in the end.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

I wouldn't bank on that 11K mileage as being real. You are taking the seller's word and there is no way to prove it. I personally do not believe the mileage is real and neither does Larry Christensen. Yes, my Z has twice the mileage but it is twice the car. I will bet my reputation on that! Factory chambered, factory floor mats, 4.10 rear, build sheet and all the original parts are in this car........shocks, exhaust, master cylinder, etc, etc. Anyone, and I mean anyone is free to come by my shop and inspect this car in person. The ink stampings are still on the carb. I didn't see that on the 11K car. I also sent you a couple of photos, didn't I?

Jerry

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
An 11,000 mile Z-28 just sold for $205,000. This is crazy.
James

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the train left the station http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CHEVROLET-CAMARO-Z28_W0QQitemZ4607877964QQcategoryZ6161QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem)

[CamarosRus]

You gotta believe that the 69 Z-28 "recreation" factory in Portland, OR just added another shift.

[Rainer]

Scammer ebay listing - note the mention to buy it now for $8000...

[Charley Lillard]

Jerry...You and Larry quite often have very different opinions from mine. I have no idea what has been done to your car or the auction car so lets just agree to disagree.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

Do you know the dealer who bought the car? Someone told me his name is Fred something???? A Mopar collector-dealer? Maybe you can fill me in. Just curious,

Thanks,

Jerry

[COPO CARTEL]

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie,

Do you know the dealer who bought the car? Someone told me his name is Fred something???? A Mopar collector-dealer? Maybe you can fill me in. Just curious, Fred Enlehart in a small town in Minnesota and I mean small no traffic lights I was at his shop 2 months ago. He is a BIG time mopar guy and has some AWESOME cars. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Thanks,

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

[SamLBInj]

Jerry, I think if you sold your cars at no reserve next year they would probably hit a new high mark as many would rather take their chances on a car from the most renowned Z/28 expert on the entire planet than some guy with a car that no one has ever heard of..

[Jerry@CHP]

Thanks for the info Hugger69copo. That is the last name I remember hearing at the BJ auction but didn't know who he was. I wonder if he's the guy who owns Jere Stahls's 1966 NHRA World Championship Belvedere? A mopar in the same league as the Ray Allen car.

Thanks for the kind compliments SamLBing. I've owned most of my Camaros for better than 20 years and as long as I'm healthy enough to enjoy and drive them, they'll be around for another 20+ years. The 69 Z that I have was something that I lucked into from a customer. He had owned the car for 31 years and contacted me to see if I had an interest in buying the car as he had lost his interest in the hobby.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Stuart Adams]

Jerry, is your car still for sale?

[Jerry@CHP]

Yes it is. I can send photos if you have an interest. Just send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I'll forward them to you.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Charley Lillard]

Jerry...If you are going to keep touting your Z28 on this site, please price it.

[Steve Shauger]

Jerry, at this point it is probably easiest to set a price by just figuring how much profit you want to make on the car.

[TimG]

In 1981 I bought a 12,000 mile '69 Indy Pace car from Fink Chevrolet in Horicon, WI. Mr. Fink left the car in the MSO until one week before I purchased the car from him. The car was on a grease rack for 12 years, they used the car in summer and had a trailer hitch on the car. If this car went through BJ today people would say, why does it have signs of a trailer hitch (drilled holes in the bumper and trunk), why did the dealer undercoat and Z Bart the car (who knows), where are the original tires (he changed them right away), why is the rear window changed on the soft top (cracked one winter), why is the front fender painted so horribly (sign fell over on the car)? It was a great car, but Mr. Fink didn't give a hoot about putting a trailer hitch on the car and drilling holes in the door jambs to rustproof the car, he put 10 gallons of undercoat on the car, also. He did all this to rustproof the car and then never drove it in rain or snow. What I'm saying is that folks did strange things to cars that they didn't drive, things that are contrary to logic like rust proofing and undercoating (heavily) a car that you're going to put on a grease rack and drilling holes in good bumpers and trunk for a trailer hitch. He also added a remote drivers side mirror and a passenger side mirror along with front and rear bumper guards.

[scott s]

I have a 20k orig mile rs car completely unrestored(even the hood) has the orig air in the tires that i want to sell http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif well maybe not. I have no price in mind,no pics,really no info,but i did stay at a holiday inn express last nite!!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I believe what makes this post even worse is that jerry is a professional appraiser for these cars,perhaps the market has got him stumped once again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[af1fe]

How much can a car be "fluffed" and still be called a survivor? What is the true definition of "survivor" car? I have heard alot of different explanations lately, and they all are different.

[Mr70]

I personally draw the line at red heater hoses.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

I am not touting the car. Stuart Adams asked if the car was for still for sale. All I did was say yes and give him my e-mail. Is that touting? You've already pulled the car from the cars for sale section of this site. I don't have a problem with that.....and I didn't know about your rule about pricing the car.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Charley Lillard]

"Yes, my Z has twice the mileage but it is twice the car. I will bet my reputation on that! Factory chambered, factory floor mats, 4.10 rear, build sheet and all the original parts are in this car........shocks, exhaust, master cylinder, etc, etc. Anyone, and I mean anyone is free to come by my shop and inspect this car in person. The ink stampings are still on the carb."
I would call that touting. You are free to place your car for sale on this site but put a price on it. I had sent you a private message regarding the ad but you did not respond.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

I stated that information because you were tending to bash the car that I have......."The Barrett-Jackson car has 11000 miles. I think Jerry's had over twice the mileage." Like a 28K mileage car with all original parts intact is a POS survivor compaired to the one sold at BJ? You don't know for certain that the 11K car mileage car is real, and it appears that most clear thinking Camaro hobbyists on this site think that this car had more than maintenance issues.

I never received your private message about selling or posting my car.

Thanks,

Jerry

[Charley Lillard]

Jerry...I sent the private message at 10:43 am yesterday. It is probably still there. You are right. I don't know for certain that the 11K mile car is real but from the looks and history I believe it is. The 11K mile car appears to be what it is, blemishes and all. I would expect your car to have no blemishes. You are in the car business and restore parts etc. If your car had the wrong water pump, I would think you would find the right pump. The 11K mile Z28 has all it's flaws out in plain sight. I have no idea if you had to do anything to your car and I don't really care. I am not bashing your car but you seem determined to bash the auction car. Given the lower miles of the auction car and I believe someone said it had not been titled I would rather have the auction car.

[Jerry@CHP]

Charlie,

And as you said before, we will just have to agree to disagree. I do know from the many years of my experience in my business that many dealers who sell cars misrepresent them. Do you know how many restamped Camaro engines I saw at the auction that were represented as "numbers matching"? Many! I see this 80% of the time when traveling to classic car dealers and high-volume sellers/flippers. Honesty and integrity is not what this hobby is about anymore. Unfortunately, it's all about money today! There is a big part of me that wishes these cars were not as valuable as they've become. That would make many of the law suits go away and tend to keep this hobby honest and to the true Camaro lover and not the Camaro investor-seller.

You for example have had the good fortune and luxury of owning several ZL1 Camaros. I will never have that luxury because the value of ZL1's have gone throught the roof. Even if I never get to own one, I do have the teenage memories of seeing these cars in the dealer showroom when they were new (Jerry Govans, AD Anderson, and Sport Chevrolet). I also got to hang out with a couple of locals who raced these cars when they were new.........and those memories are priceless.

Thanks,

Jerry

[chevjon396]

I have known Jerry McNeish for a very long time (since 1989). I know first hand what he looks for when considering a car's quality and value. In the matter of this particular 1969 Z28 Camaro, I would absolutely trust his opinion of what this car really is and at looking at the photos posted on the Barrett-Jackson site of the under hood picture I am more trusting of his opinion.

jon

[69SS350]

I nominate Jerry MacNeish for Camaro President!!!!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

On a more serious note, I also have had the previlege of being one of Jerry's friends since oh ...1989 too.

I can honestly say that there isn't anyone, and I mean anyone, who love's and appreciates these cars for what they are.....an enthusiasts car, more than him.

Knowing that, I can really see his concern about whrere these cars and the Camaro hobby in general is going.

It's a real shame that the folks who don't own one of these cars now and wants one, will probably never be able to afford it....

[SMGCO]

The bottom line is that a very low mileage original and documented 69 z is not worth 200,000. They are not worth 100,000 either. For that matter 50,000 is stretching it.

[Schonyenko2]

I talked with a friend from Moline Ill today who has been involved with racing, and muscle cars on that side of the river for a long time. I asked about that Z that went through the auction as it showed the Mills/Moline on the tail panel. He said Bud Mills the dealership owner, let his son drive that car. Never titled it. Just kept it as a dealership car. Later sold it to another dealer who for some reason didn't title it either. Said the kid was not afraid to drive it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Salvatore]

I know one thing for sure....I hang out with Jerry at the drags on occasion and he is one HECK of a driver and that Old Reliable is one HECK of a car! Can't wait till the spring. Maybe even a national record this year!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[hvychev]

Their is also a very original LS6 Chevelle which was sold new out of Mills Chevrolet that was for sale recently. The car is pretty cool and resembles Dennis Cumby's black no stripe LS6. It also seemed to have a lot of paperwork. The car is owned by Terry Carney who was a co owner with our own oldredalert on the Red Alert LS6 Chevelle.

Mills Chevrolet sold at least one 1967 Yenko Camaro. It seems with the cars from their that survive that they sold their fair share of muscle cars.

I have seen this on e-bay for some time now. Somebody pick this up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOLINE-IL-MILLS-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/MOLINE-IL-MILLS-CHEVROLET-AUTO-DEALERSHIP-postcard_W0QQitemZ6213476590QQcategoryZ29487QQssPa geNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[Schonyenko2]

Frank, Mills was the most performance oriented dealership in what they used to call the quint cities back then. They were big into corvettes. Lots of BB chevelles. They did have a 67 Yenko camaro go through. It was raced heavily, and crashed at the strip. I'm still chasing pics of it.
It was Bob Erickson though in Milan Ill. that sold the Yenko deuce that Cronkleton owns. Only deuce they had.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Mills Chevrolet sold at least one 1967 Yenko Camaro. It seems with the cars from their that survive that they sold their fair share of muscle cars.

I have seen this on e-bay for some time now. Somebody pick this up.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MOLINE-IL-MILLS-CHEV...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/MOLINE-IL-MILLS-CHEVROLET-AUTO-DEALERSHIP-postcard_W0QQitemZ6213476590QQcategoryZ29487QQssPa geNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[/ QUOTE ]

happy? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[hvychev]

Why does that not surpise me! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[af1fe]

I know that Jerry has never been one to beat around the bush on a car. He is the first one to say "The king is naked". I was lucky enough to be able to work for this man and to see first hand how meticulous he is in going over each and every Camaro. It was almost painful to see him document and keep records. No pun intended, but if ever there was a person "reliable" enough to be called a Camaro Expert, it would be Jerry MacNeish. Again, he has never been afraid to call the baby ugly (he may come across a little ruff, but face it, the truth hurts!). I have traveled with him to appraise and certify cars many times, and yes a majority of them are exactly as advertised. Have you ever seen the face of someone who has blown $60,000 for a car, then hire Jerry to certify it and then to find out it was a clone? Jerry has been to court many times, called upon as an expert witness, to testify. The reason people call on Jerry to certify their cars, to check out cars they want to purchase, is because he knows his business and his reputation is second to none. If there are any other "experts" out there please chime in, you know what I am talking about. I would like to nominate Jerry to replace Bill O'Reilly.

[Jerry@CHP]

To SMGCO,

Regarding your comments on the values of 1969 Z28's. We have done a lot of home work and research on this subject and in today's market pre BJ, a nice original survivor 69 Z would have a value in the $60-100K range. Restored cars are in the $60-70K range. As I stated before, BJ does raise the values on these cars but not through the roof as the $205K Z28. And now after reading the post here from SchonYenko2 who knows the dealership and owner, there might be more skeletons in the closet of this green survivor car than originally thought. Throw a dealer tag on the car and drive. Another reason why many of these parts were changed........and who knows what the actual mileage is?

Thanks again guys for your support here. I do appreciate it and it appears that all my hard work and dedication to this hobby has paid off.

Jerry

[Mr70]

Who's Bill O'Rielly?

[Steve Shauger]

Survivor camaros are very rare and desirable. Most unrestored cars have had some form of maintenance performed, although there are a few time capsules. In the Camaro arena there is one program VINTAGE CAMARO that judges and certifies these cars. Our program incorporates four divisions to accomodate the different levels of originality. These cars represent the benchmark by which camaros should be restored to. We have had the pleasure of certifying many ultra low mileage cars from COPOs to grocery getters. They all have a story to tell and much is learned from them and documented. Below I pasted a document that outlines our program and the criteria we use in our program.

VINTAGE CAMARO PROVIDES THE FOLLOWING:


• Encourages the preservation, status, recognition and appreciation of unrestored Camaros

• Offer the hobbyist the opportunity to have their Camaro certified objectively and fairly

• Promotes and adheres to the philosophy that the original car showing wear is preferable to one that is improperly restored

• Vintage Camaro represents a repository of factory correct standards by which the hobby and serious restorers can all benefit

• Vintage Certification identifies a Camaro as having completed a thorough exhausting inspection process, which references factory standards, and at a level as certified by Vintage Camaro

Vintage Certifications levels are divided into four divisions:


• Vintage Legend - Camaros that are 80%-90% unrestored in all reference areas.
• Vintage Legacy - Camaros that are minimally 50% unrestored, in three out of five reference areas.
• Vintage Reference - Camaros that are unrestored in at least
one Vintage Reference Area.
• Camaro Icon - Camaros that have original-unrestored
components disbursed throughout.

Reference Areas: Certification consists of two areas of consideration, Originality (90%) and Preservation (10%). Reference areas are as follows:

• Engine Compartment Area
• Exterior Body
• Interior Body
• Underbody
• Trunk


What are the benefits of Vintage Certification???
• Vintage Camaro is unique, because it provides recognition, value and status to unrestored (survivor) Camaros.

• Provides documentation, and verifies the Camaros pedigree.

• Provides the owner with a detailed listing of correct and incorrect items

• Our goal is to uncover new information and share it with you.


How do I proceed getting my Camaro Certified???

Simply review our rules and guidelines packet. If after reviewing our packet you feel your Camaro meets our criteria, fill out the last page Request for Application and mail it to the address provided at the bottom of the application.

If you have questions,or feel your car qualifies we can be contacted directly, Steve at 631-514-9765 / [email protected] or Brett can be reached at 740-676-4920.


BTW we are in search of a few survivor class camaros. We will be participating at the Camaro Nationals @ Carlisle this June. For further detailed information about our program email me and I will send out our Rules&amp; Guidelines packet with an application.

[BillD]

I have dealt with Jerry M for probably close to 15 years. He has always generously given time to answer questions, give advice and in general help in any way he can. Since he started his business he has rebuilt, replated, restored and modified parts for me. He has located parts for me. He has on occasion purchased parts from me. I have used the books he has written until they have literally fallen apart from being referred to so often. He has given me informal advice on cars or parts I was interested in purchasing. He has done formal pre purchase evaluations and appraisals for me, but only when he thought it warranted taking a further look. His work is excellent and his prices are fair. Most importantly, he is honest. He will tell you what he thinks about something regardless of who owns the car he may be giving you an opinion on or who he may offend. You ask for his opinion and you get his honest opinion, and I believe that to be a rare quality. You can choose to agree with his opinion or agree to disagree as has been previously stated.

[PaulK]

Ha Ha HA HAHAHAHA
I see, we think much alike Captain, you and I.
GOOD