Octane Supreme (formerly Lead Supreme)

[mockingbird812]

Kemco Oil out of Utah makes this product. Its an octane booster and lead additive. I have used it for a short while (based on a recommendation from the previous owner) in a true 11.0:1 CR 396 motor and have been pleased so far. The motor runs very well, no pinging, no unusual sounds. Am interested in others experience with this product. I like the fact that I can store this chemical on my shelf in convenient quart bottles and just add it to the tank prior to fill up. I used to mix a leaded 110 octane racing fuel with 91 octane pump gas in order to acheive appropriate octane.

Kemco Oil (http://www.kemcooil.com/product_info.php?pId=61)

Thanks.

[JoeG]

I guess Jack Podell isn't handling this anymore..???
Good Stuff.......

[Johnny Horsepower]

I'm sold. Just ordered some. I run a blend of 110, 93 and lead additive now. We'll see how this works.

JOHN

[WILMASBOYL78]

Tried that link and no go....

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Xplantdad]

Works for me. Try shutting down and rebooting...or clearing your cookies...

[mockingbird812]

On a slightly different tangent: what has been your experience with a target octane, for example, on a 11:1 CR motor? My understanding is that you are wasting money with overkill, i.e. too much octane or running straight 110 octane racing fuel. Where is the point of diminishing returns? Is the lower end of this (i.e. too little octane) defined by detonation and or poor engine performance? Guess I am looking for a formula or procedure to determine target octane with an eye toward maximizing performance and balancing that with cost effectiveness. Any lessons learned out there? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Thanks!

[Chevy454]

That's a good point, Sam...99% of the folks out there have no idea what their *actual* CR is...unless you cc everything you're just guessing. I'd say the vast majority of the engines out there are well below where their owners think they are. And while running too much octane isn't as physically detrimental as running too little, it *will* hurt you performance-wise, and make your car temperature sensitive...been there, done that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[mockingbird812]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a good point, Sam...99% of the folks out there have no idea what their *actual* CR is...unless you cc everything you're just guessing. I'd say the vast majority of the engines out there are well below where their owners think they are. And while running too little octane isn't as physically detrimental as running too much, it *will* hurt you performance-wise, and make your car temperature sensitive...been there, done that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob,
For what its worth, I have receipts from local shop which performed recent engine rebuild including specs on L78 pistons and have decent confidence in what my CR is. I am not sure I understand your comment: "And while running too little octane isn't as physically detrimental as running too much". I thot that running too little may lead to detonation which could be quite damaging to the pistons. I thot there was more room for error on the top end, i.e. too much octane was more of a waste of $ vs. potentially damaging.

[Chevy454]

Sam: you're too quick! I re-read it and realized I had it backwards (too early yet)...and wasn't pointing the finger at you directly...sorry if it came across like that!

But like a lot of folks, I used to *assume* that since my L72 was rated at 11:1, that it would in fact be close to 11:1...WRONG. I tore it down, did an ever so slight clean-up on the block & head surfaces, and put a set of TRW blueprint 11:1 pistons in it...then I broke out my cc'ing kit, and my jaw hit the floor...I had a WHOPPING 10.2:1 compression! Quite a far cry from the advertised 11:1 I was expecting, and this was after removing some metal and getting (what I thought was) a good set of pistons. I did some asking around, and it turned out it was common...Scott Tiemann had done a similar experiment on a Berger COPO, and came up with 9.8:1!!

Anyway, running in Pure Stock I saw everyone else at the track dumping in race fuel, so I automatically did the same...but I was at a T'n'T one night at MMP, and the car wasn't as sharp as I thought it should be. It was late summer, and had cooled off a bit (cool for Memphis, at least, which is my home track), and it finally dawned on me that I had mostly race fuel left over in the tank from Stanton. So, I pulled it out, put in some good ole 93, and ran a 12.7x (about .05+ quicker than before). But I've also hurt parts with too little octane...busted the ring lands off of a 454 I was cutting my teeth on in high school...all lessons learned.

[mockingbird812]

Rob,

No, I didn't feel you were pointing fingers. Yours was a good point, that is why I started off with, "For what it is worth..." (obviously not worth much unless you take actual measurements).

So any rules of thumbs that you use? i.e. when the moon is in the 7th house, and Jupiter aligns..... I use XX octane. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Thanks,




http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[@wot]

If you are building an engine that will run on 93 octane, you need to cc the heads. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter what the compression is. If the engine is detonating (you hear it or check for signs on the plugs), you need to make some tuning/fuel changes. If your engine is in sound shape, and you like the timing and distributor curve the way they are set, you need more octane to resist burning too quickly in an engine that detonates. You may get away with lower octane if you are not driving hard

I have not had real good results with boosters, and still mix racing fuel with 93. The ratio depends on the ambient temperature.

[Chevy454]

A rule of thumb? Keep a close eye on your plugs. I was never a fan of octane stuff in a can because it colored my plugs funny and made 'em hard to read. It's definitely better to err on the side of caution, though.

[mockingbird812]

[ QUOTE ]
If you are building an engine that will run on 93 octane, you need to cc the heads. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter what the compression is. If the engine is detonating (you hear it or check for signs on the plugs), you need to make some tuning/fuel changes. If your engine is in sound shape, and you like the timing and distributor curve the way they are set, you need more octane to resist burning too quickly in an engine that detonates. You may get away with lower octane if you are not driving hard

I have not had real good results with boosters, and still mix racing fuel with 93. The ratio depends on the ambient temperature.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dean - By saying the" The ratio depends on the ambient temperature", I am assuming that the hotter it is the more octane is required. Is that right?

What has been your poor results with boosters?

Rob - checking plugs is a good idea.

Thanks,

[@wot]

The hotter it is, the more likely my engine will detonate. Boosters have never eliminated the detonation problem, and as stated above, leave some strange deposits on the plugs. My theory on boosters is this:

Any additive used to raise the octane works on volume. A 16, 32, etc oz can of any booster can't effectively change 18 gallons of 93 to 102 octane.

[Chevy454]

Exactly, Dean...

[tirebird]

I've been using it for some time now. Before rebuilding the LS6 I used it in any tank of lousy California ethanol diluted 91 octane. I wouldn't use it when I filled up with 100 unleaded or 110 leaded at the local track. Now that I've rebuilt the LS6 with 9.5 c.r. heads/pistons, I don't use it that much. However, when I do throw a bottle in, even with the lower compression, my SOP feeling is the car is more responsive and powerful. But that's not science, just my impression.

[mockingbird812]

Just returned from AZ emissions station this a.m. with the subject car. I filled the tank prior to this with one quart OS 130 and the rest with 91 Octane gasoline. According to the Kemco chart my 18 gallon tank with 1 qt of OS130 shld net a 5 point octane rating gain or 96 octane. Car ran beautifully and strongly and I passed the emissions test loaded and at idle for HC and CO. Will monitor plugs and performance as the ambient temps increase. I don't put many miles on this car.

Thanks for your inputs. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
Works for me. Try shutting down and rebooting...or clearing your cookies...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bruce, how about if I eat the cookies instead?? Tried it again and it works...

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[mockingbird812]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Works for me. Try shutting down and rebooting...or clearing your cookies...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bruce, how about if I eat the cookies instead?? Tried it again and it works...

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

So......how do those cookies taste washed down with your beer there? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

[Xplantdad]

Wilma & Sam...too funny! I needed a laugh tonight...thanks! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif