CoPo? on Ebay? [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

ZL1#17

03-24-2006, 06:49 PM

Hard to tell, heater cover looks newer then the rest of the firewall. Brake pad on brake pedal is missing the power disc brake emblem. Also looks like drums not rotors, but hard to tell from the pictures. That's why history is so important when the drivetrain is missing.

Jeff H

03-24-2006, 06:50 PM

Interesting that is doesn't have the disc brake pedal. But racers often removed the power booster to go to manual brakes but that doesn't explain why the pedals would be swapped. I think the car would need to be inpected in person to get that comfort level that it's a real COPO.

Kim_Howie

03-24-2006, 07:04 PM

The BB box looks awfully clean compared to the fire wall and the bolts holding it look new. JMO

resto4u

03-24-2006, 07:14 PM

brake, clutch setup in the trunk.

RS69

03-24-2006, 07:19 PM

It appears this car was a 4spd. car originally. pedals in the trunk. anyone able to confirm vin no.?

ANDY M

03-24-2006, 08:06 PM

VIN is correct for 05C, car has correct front fenders, and Larry Weston is listed in the Marion, OH phone directory.
Marion is not all that far from Mansfield.
There were lots of COPO cars sold in central OH, but I have never heard of this one. Strange that there is no evidence of a roll cage in an 11 sec. car. Hole for cowl induction wiring is in the firewall, and the BB box was probably wiped off for the picture. Need to see the BE date to match with the 05C build date. No tach on dash is correct, they were not installed until 05D.
My guess is that by Sunday there will be lots of comments, as this is not the first car from Mansfield listed on ebay. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

COPO PETE

03-24-2006, 09:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No tach on dash is correct, they were not installed until 05D.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
Peter

RS69

03-24-2006, 09:14 PM

looks like a 3 point bar is in the car. also someone at some point installed rs taillights.

allcamaro

03-24-2006, 09:35 PM

Should it have a cowl wire hole next to the fuse box, and tach hole??

69LM1

03-25-2006, 10:05 PM

Hmm, up to 25 this morning. Anybody live near there can can see it?

Rich

69LM1

03-25-2006, 10:07 PM

This added:
"I also found out the car came Frost Chev in Ohio"

Still no mention of the BE rear.

Mark_C

03-25-2006, 10:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should it have a cowl wire hole next to the fuse box, and tach hole??

[/ QUOTE ]

It does have the cowl induction wiring hole, you can see the hole in one of the pictures of the master cylinder with the red wires running thru it.

69L72RS

03-26-2006, 08:13 AM

I talked to Jim about this car a while back.
He told me what the lady was asking for it and I gave him my opinion based on what he told me about the car. It is pictured the way he described it.
It has the right parts to be a COPO. Jim knows what parts to look for now. The Orange car he sold last fall was a real COPO. This one could be too.

I think he mentioned it was a theft recovery, is how the owner bought it with only 100 miles on it.
Anyone with a NICB contact can find that out along with the dealership.

Also, Jim knows how to ID a BE rear and how important it would be for backing up this car's pedigree. Call him and ask for the axle date code on the housing and the part numbers stamped in the ring gear. Ask for a clear close picture of the posi unit, showing the springs, plates, and axle gear teeth. That should settle the rearend question.

I am not saying the car is a real COPO and I am not saying it isn't. Just putting in my $0.02.

Later.
Eric

Leonard

03-26-2006, 04:17 PM

Im 98% sure it a real COPO. I do not own the car . I do not know the owner. I have not seen the car. My opinion is based on the years of research i have done on the 05 built COPO cars. Im not validating the car. ONLY MY OPINION. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Joe

03-26-2006, 06:18 PM

I notice that the car is getting more responce Positive that it's real , But i need a better answer if i'm going to bid , at that kind of money just for a 69 shell if it does not pan out . I'll die http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Alss

03-26-2006, 06:53 PM

Whats with the manual drum brakes..racer thing someone changed?? Seems to be real but no real concrete proof, Id like to see one real piece of paper..a rear stamping..something.

ALbert

Hylton

03-26-2006, 07:19 PM

Funny how the brake pedal rubber does not have the disk brake emblem.........

Mark_C

03-26-2006, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Funny how the brake pedal rubber does not have the disk brake emblem.........

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the picture of the inside of the trunk, whats just above the air cleaner?

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/9f/f3/65_3.JPG

Car wasn't always an automatic car. Does that set of pedals have a disc brake emblem on them, I can't quite see if it's there, but I'm pretty confident that it is a COPO car.

Dave Rifkin

03-26-2006, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Funny how the brake pedal rubber does not have the disk brake emblem.........

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the picture of the inside of the trunk, whats just above the air cleaner?

http://i16.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/9f/f3/65_3.JPG

Car wasn't always an automatic car. Does that set of pedals have a disc brake emblem on them, I can't quite see if it's there, but I'm pretty confident that it is a COPO car.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those pedals don't appear to have the rubber covers on them anymore.

427TJ

03-26-2006, 08:54 PM

Those skinny slots are very http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

ZL1#17

03-26-2006, 09:34 PM

"Car wasn't always an automatic car. Does that set of pedals have a disc brake emblem on them, I can't quite see if it's there, but I'm pretty confident that it is a COPO car."

How can you be so confident? Explain the front drum brakes?

lowmile

03-26-2006, 10:22 PM

I have a friend that was a old time stock and superstock racer, He said it was a very common practice to remove the power disc brakes on race cars. The drum brake set up could be lossened up to create less drag.... less drag lower ET more MPH.

Hylton

03-26-2006, 10:30 PM

So what? Most guys who go from stick to auto, dont remove the entire assembly. Most of the time, they just leave the clutch pedal dangling there. Even if they wanted to remove the clutch pedal, they would just unclip the pin and remove it from the pedal assembly. They sure as heck wouldn't go out and find another assembly and then save the old one.

Has the ad been updated? Just wondering because if I were selling an original COPO, I would at least let potential buyers know if it had the BE in it and what the VIN and Date stamp on the 512 block is. He says he has another 12 bolt from the old lady and thinks it 'might' be a BE rear. All he is saying is that it is a COPO car with no proof other than "this guy and that guy remembers the car as a 427 car". That would not be good enough for me.

I don't know if you guys ever hung out with racers but when they take a piece of a car, it was usually for sale because they always want money for something else they need. Few guys even realized what a BE rear-end was 20 years ago. Back then, a 12 bolt out of a Camaro was a 12 bolt out of a Camaro.

This seller seems to have his facts with respect to COPO part numbers yet he is not willing to take the extra step to confirm the numbers and post pics? As someone else said, the heater box has been off before and there is absolutely nothing in his ad to prove to me that the car was not an original SS350 car with a ZL2 option. Common guys!

Mark_C

03-26-2006, 10:51 PM

You see a shifter quadrant in the dash, or a shifter arm on the column? Theres no cutouts in the rug for mounting a console (although I don't know if the slightly darker area on top of the tunnel next to the loose head is where the 4spd shifter hole was patched, or just a dark spot on the rug). The master cylinder is a US master cyl with bleeders, not what you would have if the car was originally a drum brake car and not what you would get as a service or replacement part(they didn't have bleeders). The brake system has been altered quite a bit. I'd need to see the brackets on the drivers side to be able to prove the car came with discs originally. In either case the reason I think it's a COPO has nothing to do with wether it was a 4spd of auto, or has drum brakes now. Theres other info in the auction that indicates it is what the seller says it is. Is if worth much more than the 30K its at right now without the original driveline, who knows.

enio45

03-26-2006, 11:48 PM

Read the sellers ebay feedback, there is one or two situations that indicates the descriptions are not what the cars are in person. Might be not an issue, but when the real data needs to be forthcoming...its not. Seems the rear info should be readily available IMO.

69LM1

03-27-2006, 01:05 AM

He emailed back and stated that it is a BE rear. Still waiting on the date codes.

Leonard

03-27-2006, 03:32 AM

Having the original BE rear is a plus and will help. Like i stated before. IMO, i am 98% sure it is a real COPO without having the BE rear availible. For any of you wanting a COPO car, this is one to go look at. Take your books and inspect it well. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

69L72RS

03-27-2006, 05:57 AM

Has anyone gotten the rearend info back yet?

Look at the ad picture that shows the motor frame mount and the crossmember, then go compare them to your cars.
The mounts scale measure too tall for BBC mounts and the crossmember looks to be missing the passenger side dimple that is correct for a BBC crossmember. IMO.
Ask for the frame motor mount numbers and pictures showing the mount bolt heads and nuts. Also ask for better picture of the crossmember.

I am posting this for those members who have emailed me about the car. I'm sorry but I can't tell you that the car is or isn't a real COPO car. All I can do is let you know what I see and what I would check for, if I was inspecting the car to buy it.

On a car with this kind of low milage and lack of weathering, there should be certain tell-tale items left that would not have been tampered with by its racing history.

Anyone interested in the car should look it over in person and know what they are checking for.

Hope this info is some help.
Eric

Belair62

03-27-2006, 06:24 AM

Good advice Eric...no paperwork,no drivetrain ,trans/pedal change,brake change adds up to a real tough car to ever figure out..

rpoz11

03-27-2006, 10:25 AM

Per the reply given in the auction:
"This is definitely a REAL COPO car. Info is on the trim tag."
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Anyways, if it aint what it's described to be, a 10-10 car would be nice to own!

69LM1

03-27-2006, 10:02 PM

Still no pics or date codes yet on the rear. Anyone else get them?
Rich

Z28DZ

03-27-2006, 11:41 PM

This seller also had another COPO for sale last fall on Ebay. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post158999 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3&Number=158999&Search page=3&Main=158992&Words=Z28DZ&topic=&Search=true# Post158999)

Hylton

03-28-2006, 12:19 AM

Well after reading the thread below, the seller is just a total scumbag:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/157096/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

cars

03-28-2006, 02:02 AM

TO ALL THOSE WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT THE CAR, yES IT DOES HAVE THE DISC BRAKE ON THE PAD, AND YES THIS IS A REAL 4 SPEED CAR, THE CLUTCH BRACKET IS STILL ON THE SUB FRAME. ,AND THE HOLE IS IN THE FLOOR, AND YES THIS CAR CAME WITH DISC BRAKES, AND IT HAD A 3 POINT ROLL BAR BUT I TOOK IT OUT. THE FRONT FENDERS HAVE NEVER BEEN OFF THE CAR, DO YOU SEE AN EMBLEM IN FRONT OF THE MARKER LIGHT, WOW NEATHER DO I. AND AS TO THE LAST COPO I SOLD ON E-BAY THAT TURNED OUT TO BE REAL ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ERIC FOR HIS HELP WITH ME IN THE PAST AND PRESENT ON BOTH CARS HE HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP AND AS TO THE GUY THAT SAID I WAS A SCUM BAG IT JUST SHOWS YOU DON'T KNOW [censored]. I WAS TOLD BUY ANOTHER GUY THAT THIS CAR WAS SOLD NEW AT FROST CHEVY, I CALLED THEY REMEMBERED THE CAR. I HAVE NO REASON TO LIE TO ANYONE , COME LOOK AT THE CAR THATS ALL YOU HAD TO DO. THE CAR IS SOLD. THANK U TO ALL THAT HELPED WITH THE HISTORY ON THIS CAR. REMEMBER THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE THAT THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL, AND THERE ARE THOSE THAT REALLY DO. THANK U TO THOSE THAT DO.

Leonard

03-28-2006, 02:20 AM

People, do your research. You need to on this type of car. Info IS on the trim tag. Im not talking about the exterior color or X code. My opinion is based on the extensive research i have on the 05 (MAY of 69) 1969 Camaros. There is a noticible difference between the RPO and COPO in May of 69. Just tring to be helpful.

Xplantdad

03-28-2006, 02:28 AM

Just a silly question here...and not trying to be funny (I know, hard to believe http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) but if the car is sold, why is the ebay auction still running? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Leonard

03-28-2006, 02:28 AM

cars, i hope the new owner enjoys there COPO. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

ZL1.FUN

03-28-2006, 02:39 AM

im with ya, why is the car still on ebay if its sold ?

firstgenaddict

03-28-2006, 02:50 AM

The heater core cover may or may not have been off but I can tell you from experience that because the firewall was "blacked out" before the cover was installed the finishes were totally different.
The firewall ended up a random sprayed almost flat black or dry sprayed black that was just to cover up the chalk markings and overspray. Being dry sprayed or flat the paint held the grime and grease more than the heater box cover.
The heater box cover was the GM reconditioning black color..60 deg gloss. Which was painted by dipping so the finish was extremely smooth. So with minor and I stress minor cleaning of the engine compartment there could be a large difference in the finishes on these two parts.

Astock

03-28-2006, 03:18 AM

That box has been painted.For me,I would rather see the car as found.I don't know why guys like this jerk the 3 point and paint the heater box.It raises suspicion.

Hylton

03-28-2006, 03:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TO ALL THOSE WANTING TO KNOW ABOUT THE CAR, yES IT DOES HAVE THE DISC BRAKE ON THE PAD, AND YES THIS IS A REAL 4 SPEED CAR, THE CLUTCH BRACKET IS STILL ON THE SUB FRAME. ,AND THE HOLE IS IN THE FLOOR, AND YES THIS CAR CAME WITH DISC BRAKES, AND IT HAD A 3 POINT ROLL BAR BUT I TOOK IT OUT. THE FRONT FENDERS HAVE NEVER BEEN OFF THE CAR, DO YOU SEE AN EMBLEM IN FRONT OF THE MARKER LIGHT, WOW NEATHER DO I. AND AS TO THE LAST COPO I SOLD ON E-BAY THAT TURNED OUT TO BE REAL ALSO, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ERIC FOR HIS HELP WITH ME IN THE PAST AND PRESENT ON BOTH CARS HE HAS BEEN A GREAT HELP AND AS TO THE GUY THAT SAID I WAS A SCUM BAG IT JUST SHOWS YOU DON'T KNOW [censored]. I WAS TOLD BUY ANOTHER GUY THAT THIS CAR WAS SOLD NEW AT FROST CHEVY, I CALLED THEY REMEMBERED THE CAR. I HAVE NO REASON TO LIE TO ANYONE , COME LOOK AT THE CAR THATS ALL YOU HAD TO DO. THE CAR IS SOLD. THANK U TO ALL THAT HELPED WITH THE HISTORY ON THIS CAR. REMEMBER THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE THAT THINKS HE KNOWS IT ALL, AND THERE ARE THOSE THAT REALLY DO. THANK U TO THOSE THAT DO.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no reason to lie but you sure had no problem calling one of our members Julian Johnson a liar when he showed up with the original engine for the last COPO you sold. Did you not tell potential buyers of the last COPO you sold that the motor Julian had was a restamp when in reality it was you who had the restamped motor?

Charley Lillard

03-28-2006, 03:40 AM

Hylton...I don't remember anything in that old thread that proved or anyone claimed he stamped the engine in the car he was selling. He claimed it was in the car when he got it. Try to keep this stuff straight.

Hylton

03-28-2006, 03:54 AM

I never said that it was he who stamped the engine. My comment was in regards to which engine was the original one.

Charley Lillard

03-28-2006, 04:47 AM

You are right...Even I am screwing this stuff up.

cars

03-28-2006, 04:57 AM

Its me again, as to why the car is still on E-bay, can you wait for me to get home from work so I can end the auction, everyone is so quick to jump the gun. As to the heater box I never painted it that was the way it was when I got it, he put a new heater core in the car, why he raced it with a heater core I do not know but he did. all I did was take the 502 motor out of the car , and the racing trans, and some other racing stuff. I never painted anything, I have been real lucky to have found two COPO cars, And the person to buy the orange one is very happy, and the new buyer of the black one is very happy also, and I guess that is all that matters

Z28DZ

03-28-2006, 06:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I WAS TOLD BUY ANOTHER GUY THAT THIS CAR WAS SOLD NEW AT FROST CHEVY, I CALLED THEY REMEMBERED THE CAR.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a black COPO that was sold new at Frost. The dealership changed hands several years back and is now Dave Kehl Chevrolet. I am interested in who you talked to that remembered the car you are selling, as I called Kehl and I could obtain no info or knowledge about my paricular COPO nor did they have any of the old sales records. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Hylton

03-28-2006, 06:20 AM

Wanted to buy - X11, V8, 4 speed '69 Camaro that requires restoration. Preferably old race car without original drivetrain....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Bonus money if you can prove car's original drivetrain, documentation and owner cannot be found.

Joe

03-28-2006, 08:47 AM

Not for nothing , don't you guys have a list of vin numbers some place that indicates if it was a COPO ? I had a guy who called me one day and asked if the run number was inbetween the numbers on a X 11 car i had he gave me ( i forget now what they where ) . but i'm sure that information is on the net some place .

firstgenaddict

03-28-2006, 12:27 PM

The lists of Vin's are not complete. They only serve as a starting point if a suspect cars vin is not on the list.

Stefano

03-28-2006, 08:38 PM

Cool car, too bad the auction was ended early.

Jeff H

03-28-2006, 10:02 PM

So does the happy owner of the Orange car know it has a restamped engine yet?

69L72RS

03-28-2006, 10:36 PM

Yes.
He knew it was a restamp when he bought the car.

I think the car is supposed to be finished by the end of this month.

Jeff H

03-28-2006, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes.
He knew it was a restamp when he bought the car.

I think the car is supposed to be finished by the end of this month.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's good to know. Did the new owner have any interest in buying the original motor for the car?

69L72RS

03-29-2006, 12:59 AM

Jeff,
The first time Chris called me, he stated that he was not interested in buying the engine.
He only wanted vehicle history on the car.
Eric

Jeff H

03-29-2006, 04:31 AM

What a shame if you can't reunite an original COPO car with its original motor. Hopefully it will be reunited some day.

mchriscad

04-01-2006, 02:47 AM

I would have loved to have paid too much for my original engine, but someone else was willing to pay Eric way past too much. I guess the assembly code worked for his COPO and he really didn't care about reuniting my car and my engine. I even offered to sell the car to the new owner of my original engine just to get them back together again, but he was not interested.

I was also able to talk to someone who knew quite alot about the black car. Interesting stories!