Who built and sold the first 427 Camaros?

[1967Z28]

I have to admit I have not really followed the 427 cars to see if this has been figured out already. I ran across this article in Competition Press/Autoweek and as you can see from the date (Nov. 7, 1966) in the attached article it says that Dana "is the first on the scene to offer a (427) Super Camaro". I thought that date of Nov. 7 was pretty early. Anybody know of an earlier article or advertisement for a 427 Camaro?

-Jon

[Late BrakeU2]

I'm not aware of any other articles,but I was speaking to Dick G. last weekend about this very same question,and he did confirm it was the fall of 66 when they were working on that project.

[William]

The Nickey conversion featured in the January 67 Tach magazine was done on a very early production '67 SS350-has no fender flags or '350' emblems.

Exactly who did the first may never be known. Dana, Bill Thomas, Nickey [Harrell], Yenko, Motion all converted '67s.

[1967Z28]

Is it possible the 350 engine ID was removed and the paint touched up in that area? Here is page 1 of another article from late November '66. It talks about the Yenko/Dana connection and also mentions the newly formed connection between Nickey and Bill Thomas.

-Jon

[1967Z28]

Here is page 2 from the same article (11-29-66).

-Jon

[JChlupsa]

Neat stuff Jon, Anyone have an idea on what other dealers were linked with DANA outside of themselves and Yenko.

Comier Chevy down the street from DANA?? or what other West Coast dealers??

[427TJ]

Interesting--in the first clipping they mention use of the 385hp 427 for conversion. Isn't that the '67 Impala SS 427 unit? Also interesting to read Penske's comments on the new Camaro. I guess he soon warmed up to the idea of racing it!

I think it would be fascinating to know which dealer performed the very first big-block swap into a '67 Camaro. I think it's safe to say that the performance-minded dealers (and Motion) were all thinking the same thing when the Camaro debuted: 427! <font color="red"> </font>

[Stefano]

Very cool article! No doubt that all the Key players, which we admire today, had intentions, to put a big block into the Camaro, as soon as they could get their hands on one.

Based on info shared with me, Nickey was ready to perform Conversions even before the first Camaro ever hit the dealership's parking lot.

Dickie Harrell started his deal with Nickey, in January of 1966 and was instrumental in bringing the Nickey Camaro into fruition.

Nickey had a vault in the basement, of the dealership. It was a room made of cinder blocks, with a steal door and lock, where all the counter/crate engines and special parts were kept.

According to those who were there, back in the day, Nickey had a team of (5)Elite Master Technicians, along with complete engines and parts ready to go, before the first Camaro ever arrived.

This was not an after thought for Nickey. The Bill Thomas alliance was primarily established, to fullfill orders and demand, for Nickey Camaros, on the West Coast.

[1967Z28]

Thanks, Stefano. That is some neat information. I hadn't heard about that vault in the basement. It does seem to make sense that some of the high-profile dealers were thinking of swapping big blocks into Camaros right from the start but I don't recall ever hearing of one built prior to approximately December '66. Has anybody seen an earlier 427 (or 396) dealer-conversion prior to 12/66? Who currently has the earliest known 427 dealer-converted (or Motion, or Bill Thomas) Camaro?

-Jon

[Stefano]

Still don't know for certain. But based on the research and info we have, we know that the 427 Conversions were ready to roll prior to Dec '66. Nickey was advertising 3 "ready to drive away" 427 Conversions in at least one magazine dated November 1966.

The objective was to get 50 completed and sold as soon as possible. If you look at the initial advertised price of the conversion Camaros you will see that they were not holding out for big profits.

The factory did not hesitate to roll out the SS 350 Camaro, as it was more profitable than a std base Camaro and there was a pent up demand for GMs new "Pony" car.

[copo-2]

In a dated document of 10-09-66,written and signed by Jim Tice, who was President of the American Hot Rod Association.

This document was written to Nickey Chevrolet (Dick Harrell) advising them of their Technical Committee certifying the legality of 396-427 engines into the 67 Camaro, as a dealer option. Quote: Until further notice, all work must be performed by Nickey Chevrolet or its agent. These cars will be eligible for regular formula class participation during the 67 AHRA drag racing season.

It further states, We need information from you as soon as possible as to how many of these units you plan to build? We hope that this ruling will benefit our stock type racing shows and we trust this will be of service to you. Ray

[kwhizz]

Seems to me that Nickey was converting Camaros soon after the first trailer arrived.....I had my L-79 Nova at the time and would go there on Saturdays to see what was being converted during the week.....That was in the Fall of 66 for sure.....

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[1967Z28]

Great information. Thanks, guys.

I found a road test comparison from the summer of '67 between a Dana and a Nickey Camaro. I will try and scan it and get it posted.

-Jon

[copo-2]

Any One know when the Camaro officially was introduced and became available to the general public?

[PeteLeathersac]

I think Sept. 26'th, 1966 is the most quoted date but there's references to Sept. 21'st also the 29'th?? .

~ Pete

[Xplantdad]

From what I remember...they came out on my birthday (Sept 21st) but I am getting old(er)...and could be wrong...

[Xplantdad]

Okay...Jon sent me a scan of a cool magazine article to post for everyone to check out...enjoy it! Thanks Jon http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Cool Dana Ad

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/nickeyvsdana/tn_Dana427ad.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Page 1

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/nickeyvsdana/tn_NickeyvsDana1.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Page 2

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/nickeyvsdana/tn_NickeyvsDana2.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Page 3

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/nickeyvsdana/tn_NickeyvsDana3.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Page 4 Johnny Rivers with the 5th Dimension...at the Whisky-A-Go GO....Wow...I've been there... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/lotsayenkopics/nickeyvsdana/tn_NickeyvsDana4.jpg

[Stefano]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[1967Z28]

Bruce, thanks for posting those for me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

-Jon

[Keith Tedford]

I believe that Gorries Chevrolet in Toronto was doing the Black Panther 427 Camaro conversions in 1967. I don't know the time frame though.

[markjohnson]

That's a fantastic, although strange, magazine article with cartoon captioning of the cars. How about that Johnny Rivers advertisement at the famous Whiskey a Go Go? Too cool!

[Z-11 396]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible the 350 engine ID was removed and the paint touched up in that area? Here is page 1 of another article from late November '66. It talks about the Yenko/Dana connection and also mentions the newly formed connection between Nickey and Bill Thomas.

-Jon

[/ QUOTE ]&lt;&lt;&lt; JON &gt;&gt;&gt; THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE NEWSPAPER INFORMATION, IT ADD'S ANOTHER PART OF THE PUZZLE FOR ME , AND MY CAR. '' DANA '' CHEVY WOULD BUILD AND SALE * YENKO * BASED CORVAIR ++ STINGERS ++ON THE WEST COAST,ONLY -3- WERE BUILT...,I HAVE ATTACHED A AD FROM DEC. 1966 IN THE NATIONAL DRAGSTER THAT REFLECT THERE ARRANGEMENT, PICTURED IS THE DANA 427, AND YENKO STINGER..THANKS AGAIN FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION....KASEY . http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible the 350 engine ID was removed and the paint touched up in that area?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Jon, early 427 Camaro conversions were performed on small-block cars. In the case of the first Dana conversion, the 350 emblems were removed and '67 Impala SS 427 V-flags and 427 numerals were added in their place. Note the small-block fan shroud and heater hose connections on the firewall in this engine bay shot of the first Dana.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/42767DanaCamaro.jpg

And here's a Nickey/Bill Thomas Camaro, possibly the same car from your article that Bruce posted, showing a big-block shroud but it has small-block heater hose connections ont he firewall.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/42767BTCamaro.jpg

Last is a photo of the first Nickey Chicago 427 Camaro conversion (overseen by Dick Harrell), performed on an SS 350. Note the small-block fan shroud and iron exhaust manifolds. I suppose the large air cleaner housing is also noteworthy. Note also that all three cars have manual brakes.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/42767DHNickeyCamaro.jpg

[1967Z28]

Kasey, glad you enjoyed the posting of that article and it was useful to you.

Bill, thanks for posting those pics of the engine compartments. Looks like Dana generally preferred the Edelbrock valve covers and Nickey liked to stick with the stock chrome ones (most likely some exceptions for either case).

-Jon

[copo-2]

Bill, thanks for posting those pics of the engine compartments. Looks like Dana generally preferred the Edelbrock valve covers and Nickey liked to stick with the stock chrome ones (most likely some exceptions for either case).

-Jon

On the very first 396-427 transplants, I can't say for sure on such things as valve covers, wheels, headers, &amp; etc., but after the programs got rolling, the customer could order the car built with most anything he was willing to pay for. Too, very interesting article about the Dana and Nickey-Thomas Camaro performance.

What has always been a little deceptive on the 427 Camaro is the fact we all know that Bill Thomas and Nickey Chevrolet were associated. This is true with Dick Harrell and Nickey joining forces in January of 1966. Now, Dick Harrell &amp; Bill Thomas can be traced back to 1965, but when did Thomas become associated with Nickey Chevrolet? Would Thomas have been associated with Nickey when the 67 Camaro became available?

Thanks Bruce and Pete for your input into establishing a date of the release of the Camaro, in which you agree on the latter part of September, 1966. We now know that the BB Camaro was in the planning stages or had already been built prior to Oct. 9, 1966 at Nickey Chevrolet, which would be no more than 2 weeks after availability to the general public? My thoughts are that these were already built before this date or Harrell would not have approached AHRA with this thought in mind? I do not have a date as to when Harrell contacted Tice, but feel that it would have been at least a few days prior to this date? Then as mentioned before, who actually built the first, still may be questionable? Ray

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]


Now, Dick Harrell &amp; Bill Thomas can be traced back to 1965, but when did Thomas become associated with Nickey Chevrolet? Would Thomas have been associated with Nickey when the 67 Camaro became available?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ray,
The Nickey/Thomas marketing/sales alliance was created to market the 'Nickey' Camaro as well as GM Hi-Po Parts some time in early 1966.

I have not been able to get an exact date, but we know that Bill Thomas was involved with Nickey's road race program, in some aspect, prior to 1967.

Ronnie Kaplan/RKE, via Nickey Chevrolet had direct access to a dyno cell at the Detroit Tech Center. He was one of the "insiders".

He and Bill Thomas were sharing info,parts and technology long before the Camaro was introduced.

Ronnie shared a story with me, about when he visited Bill's shop in Fullerton California, prior to him moving, to the Anaheim location.

[copo-2]

Stephano,

Good information about Bill Thomas Enterprises and his relationship with Nickey Chevrolet, prior to the release of the Camaro. I knew that the red 66 Nickey Nova Dick Harrell campaigned was a Bill Thomas engineered car, but was not sure if he was actually with Nickey yet?

Now, in an earlier post in a document from AHRA where it is stated by Jim Tice that the 396-427 Camaro would be eligible for stock eliminator classes only from Nickey Chevrolet or it's agent? Could the word "AGENT" be a Bill Thomas prepared car possibly being invoiced or with some sort of paperwork being done by Nickey??? Since Dick Harrell was working with Nickey in Chicago at the time, I wouldn't think the agent would be a reference too him?

It is no secret that Dick Harrell carried a lot of clout with AHRA. He could draw a lot of people to the track by his winning record and devotion to Chevrolets. Bruce Young wrote many articles about Dick Harrell. He was a PR man for the AHRA and was the author of the earlier mentioned detailed article of Tach Magazine (Jan. 67). In AHRA's weekly publication called "Drag World," he also did an article dated October 14, 1966, about the 67 Nickey 427 Camaro as a street or strip version ready for delivery from Nickey Chevrolet. Production was at least underway for the Nickey 427 Camaro at this time frame. Ray

[Stefano]

I don't have an employment agreement to back it up, but Dick was an employee of Nickey. I also agree and do not think he would be considered an agent, for the purpose of selling Nickey Camaros.

Bill Thomas was not a licensed Chevrolet dealer and certainly would have been considered an agent, of Nickey Chevrolet,for the purposes,of their alliance,IMO.

[Tim Penton]

Jon, The 4 pg. article that you posted on the '67 Nickey and Dana 427 Camaros, was that from Tach magazine Jan. 1967? Ray, Could you please post the article from Drag world 10-14-66 about the '67 Nickey 427 Camaros? Thanks guys, great reading! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[1967Z28]

Tim,

No, it was not in Tach magazine. It was in the August '67 issue of Raceway magazine, a publication put out by Riverside Raceway.

-Jon

[Tim Penton]

Jon, You wouldn't know of anyone with another copy of this would you? Could you post the mag's cover? I'm on the hunt. Thanks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif