LS5 Ragtop on Ebay

[Ngtflyr]

Does anyone know this car or the seller with no ebay history???? Very nice restoration, beautiful car!



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chev...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevelle-Convertible-SS-LS5-match-frameoff-documen_W0QQitemZ250004464065QQihZ015QQcategoryZ61 64QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) LS5 Ragtop (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-Chevelle-Convertible-SS-LS5-match-frameoff-documen_W0QQitemZ250004464065QQihZ015QQcategoryZ61 64QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f327/ngtflyr/LS5buildsheet.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f327/ngtflyr/POP.jpg http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f327/ngtflyr/LS5Ragtop.jpg

[budnate]

you just have to dig a triple black vert in BB 4 gear http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif...car looks well done, and he has decent pics up, looks like it will go for a home run....batter up.......

[COPO]

Spectacular Car. I am curious as to the difference between the "CKK" rear and the "CRW" rear. Both are 4.10 rears. My LS-6 has the "CRW" 4.10 posi rear.

Paging MR70

[ssl78]

The difference between the 2 rear ends is the CKK uses the smaller u-joint and the CRW uses the larger rear u-joint, which means they get different rear end yokes. I believe all 454 cars weather it was a LS5 or LS6 should have recieved the rear end with the larger yoke.

[mockingbird812]

Couple of questions. Was the open element AF available for the LS5? Did the Lakewood plant make convertibles? If so why would a Florida delivered (per BS) LS5 vert come from Baltimore. Not throwing any spears here. Just curious. Nice looking car.

Thanks

[Musclecarkid]

Open element for cars w/o cowl induction,but having AC as the dual snorkle would hit the ac compressor...410s with air conditioning,never happened.....looks like a black car w black stripes????????????????????????????????????? 2 co6 options,i never saw BKT like that..

[jerry j]

Beautiful car but odd that box 29 on build sheet for the axle code is RW & Protect O Plate shows KK.

[BUIZILLA]

i've been in and out of that dealership 200 times... my dad's office was 9 blocks from there, same street, we went past it virtually everyday... a friend of mines dad had a Z16 that he bought new from there, yellow/black/white guts. That dealer knew someone upstairs cause they got some one-off perf. equip car's that nobody else could seem to get.... a couple of my longtime friends still today, worked there in that timeframe in parts and service...

wow, cool car....

Paul Spencer??? hmmmmmmm... rings a bell....

4.10's with a/c? now, that's a first..............

Jim

[Late BrakeU2]

That car(along with a cortez LS6 rag with similar aged sheet)ran through ebay a couple of weeks ago-heads up thread on TC tag team for anyone considering-good looking car none the less!

[JIM]

CKK was available with a L-78 . Look at the order book You absolutely could not get a 4:10 with A/C . Rick chime in. The A/C compresor would not take the RPM's. Fishy to say the least. Nice car but!!!!!!!. Too many aged build sheets and fake protect-plates out there. Jim

[ohhawk]

Very nice car. Would agree with some that the buildsheet needs further scrutiny especially when considering the dollars likely involved on this auction. I'm looking at a copy of a Baltimore buildsheet on an LS5 built one day earlier than this car and there are some differences that could be questioned. Also, would be the first LS5 buildsheet I've ever seen w/o the T60 HD Battery being listed.

[Bill Pritchard]

Call me paranoid but the font on the build sheet doesn't look quite right.....close, very close, but just not quite right http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Beautiful car nonetheless, and excellent pictures http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Mr70]

I can't see the Buildsheet on this screen at all.It's too dark & far away,so I can't comment on it.
Lakewood and all the other 6 Assembly plants built these in convertible form.Final destination did not determine plant built at.
No LS-5 Chevelle/Elco recieved the 4:10 posi rear on the assembly line floor.They recieved either a 3:31 open,(RU) or a 3:31 posi,(RV).Air conditioning had nothing to do with that.The 4:10 Posi was a solid Lifter engine application...L-78 & LS-6 ONLY.
The seller does not state anywhere that is the ORIGINAL 4:10 rearend,...but the CKK coded 4:10 posi was an 1970 L-78 Chevelle/Elco application only and with a date of 03 23 makes me believe it was stamped to fit the time zone of this particular Chevelle.I would like to know the casting No. & date of that rearend housing.. I would be suspect of that P-O-P for this reason alone.
Although the literature from back then does suggest that the New T-60 Side terminal R-79W battery must be ordered with the New 454's,examples do exist today that show they were ordered with the R-59 Top post battery origianlly.It was not as Mandatory as they led us to believe.

The incorrect stainless pedal trim and other hicups I see aside,I think this Chevelle is a nice looking ride as it stands.

[rubbinisracing]

Definitely a fake build sheet!!!!

The font is wrong as Bill pointed out. The tears in the paper are exactly that...a tear. Look at the torn edge and it's white wear the color didn't soak into it. brittle paper doesn't have that same "torn" edge. but there is a dead givaway. Compare the "STATEMENT OF ACCEPTANCE BY CARRIER" in lower right hand corner and compare it to a real build sheet.

Don't mean to talk in code but don't want to help make the fraud's better!

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
Couple of questions. Was the open element AF available for the LS5? Did the Lakewood plant make convertibles? If so why would a Florida delivered (per BS) LS5 vert come from Baltimore. Not throwing any spears here. Just curious. Nice looking car.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]


Sam-
side note on paper - not to change the subject, I have the orig window sticker for the T/A that shows the car was/?? delivered on the east coast new and was factory transfered out here to Seattle, kinda odd but its the original sticker and it shows the transfer at the top of it. I guess it was re-routed for demand by GM???

any dealer trade I have ever seen they sell it with the sticker with the original dealers name on it,just a interesting tid bit to file away.

now back to the Chevelle. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JIM]

My 70 SS conv was built just before this one. Its a real Black, black saddle 4 spd. Build sheets are way different. Need help to post picture ideas??? Jim

[Late BrakeU2]

Jim,here's a thread with over two thousand hits on this subject-
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134511

I feel very strongly that we should refrain from posting legitimate sheets-these guys are very close already,and every time we provide another blueprint the time will soon be at hand when there will be no way to tell the diff.

JMHO

[chads454Ls6]

It is becoming scary how well they are starting to fake the sheets. As pointed out earlier,the font is incorrect and not dark enough. Several issues with the codes as some are not correct for the car. No sense pointing them out as the person that made the sheet could be reading this. Not to say they wont find out eventually,but why help them.

[BUIZILLA]

Please don't shoot the messenger here.... i'm just factually stating what I know here as of TODAY. I did some easy checking on the Dade County, Fla. property tax rolls, and other things, starting from 1955, which is when I moved here...

927 Andora Ave. on the POP, does NOT exist, never did, 915 and 931 do exist on that side of the street, 920 is on the other side of the street. Homes are still in place, originally built from 1955-1964, and still there today, nothing has changed in 40-50 years there.

Don Allen Chev. was at 2050 N. Miami Ave, the corner of 20th St and N. Miami Ave., the lot still exists. Not 2245, which is two blocks down, and on the other side of the street. The correct zip was 33127, not 33727, as shown on the build sheet.

Box 94 shows a rear speaker, however the balance knob for it is missing on the radio, and there is NO rear speaker...

The axle tubes are welded at the pumpkin, and ground down smooth, draw your own conclusions here...

ditto on the no 4.10's rule, didn't happen...

alternator pulley is for an LS6 ?

A/C compressor clutch is for a GS Stage 1 or a W30 Olds...

I see at least 2 or 3 other build sheet *issues*, one very obvious, but I ain't sayin' nuttin more...

Jim

[Ngtflyr]

The main reason I originally made the post was that I felt the BS was a very good aged one (scary) with a couple discrepancies. The car "came" with everything one could desire, knowing what I know now and using a time machine I would go back and order it pretty much like it was restored, well maybe throw in a LS6 while I'm at it. Everyone here did not disappoint, thanks to all for the verification. Additionally, my thinking was that a car like this would be known to someone on this board from the local area.

[Lynn]

Great information from all. I fully agree; keep busting the fake build sheets and POP's, but don't give out too much info on why you know it to be a fake. Even though, from a selfish point of view, I would really like to be more educated in this area.

What a shame. This car is absolutely gorgeous, and should bring some pretty big money just on its own merits. The fake documents really detract, in my opinion. Even if I were in the market for such a vehicle, I wouldn't be interested in this one.

I feel a bit violated every time I see the fraud that the greedy bastards are perpetrating on unsuspecting purchasers. Forged POP and forged build sheet, represented as original? That is fraud, same as a forged trim tag and a fake stamped VIN. If you get burned on one of these deals, or know of someone else who gets burned, contact the Attorney General's office in your state. I have recently filed a case in Southern Oklahoma for sale of a fake Z/28 with a forged trim tag and restamped "DZ" motor. I have already forwarded a copy of the Petition to the A.G.'s office, and they are interested in getting my discovery information as we go along.

As I have stated before, I am not a litigious guy (sounds funny coming from an attorney, I know) but the only thing that is going to dampen this kind of fraudulent activity is hitting the fraudsters in the pocket book.

Lynn Bilodeau

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not a litigious guy (sounds funny coming from an attorney, I know) but the only thing that is going to dampen this kind of fraudulent activity is hitting the fraudsters in the pocket book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely correct, Lynn. Unfortunately, it's a bit difficult and/or pricey for the average guy to do that. You have a big advantage there, and I applaud you for making the effort http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif