Bad clutch

[Alss]

Well it seems that my NEW clutch has gone south! A whopping 46 miles and its toast!!.. chattering, bucking, losing adjustment very stiff...and just does not feel right. I wont mention a brand name, but I am going back to the force! At least I have a couple of weeks between now and the reunion to make it right..just can't win. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

ALbert

[Xplantdad]

Al,

I know that with a centerforce clutch...there is a break in period


see this from their website:

[ QUOTE ]
DO CENTERFORCE CLUTCHES REQUIRE A BREAK IN PERIOD?


Yes. It Is Recommended To Properly Seat In The New Pressure Plate &Amp; Disc Assembly To Assure Good Clutch Performance. Centerforce Recommends 450-500 Miles Of In Town Stop And Go Type Of Easy Driving Before Applying Full Power. If Your Driving Consists Of Mainly Highway Type Use, The Break In Period Should Be Longer Than The 450-500 Miles. If The Break In Period Is Not Properly Followed, Clutch Life And Performance Can Be Sacrificed.



[/ QUOTE ]

And also this:


[ QUOTE ]
DOES CENTERFORCE REQUIRE THE FLYWHEEL TO BE RESURFACED BEFORE INSTALLING A NEW CLUTCH?


Yes! Flywheels Are Subject To Heat, Scoring And Warping During Use, Therefore The Flywheel Should Always Be Properly Resurfaced Or Replaced To Assure Good Clutch Performance. Resurfacing Must Be Performed On A Qualified Flywheel Grinding Machine. Centerforce Does Not Recommend Resurfacing Flywheels On A Lathe Or A Blanchard Grinder. Also, Be Aware That Using A Hand-Held Electric Or Pneumatic Grinder/Sander Or Scuffing The Surface With Sandpaper Does Not Constitute A Properly Resurfaced Flywheel. Refer To Your Factory Service Manual For Specifics On Your Vehicle Regarding Flywheel Resurfacing And Specifications (Flat, Step, Etc.).Some Vehicles Require New Replacement Flywheels Instead Of Resurfacing. Please Consult The Factory Service Manual Or Call Our Tech. Line At (928) 771-8422 If You Have Any Questions

[/ QUOTE ]

Just trying to help http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Alss]

Appreciate the input..clutch is a Hays diaphragm ..new flywheel, new everything..it just keeps getting worse instead of better. Got to horse it out to be smooth.... tough to do on grass !!. New one is on its way..just another project for the weekend http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif. Thanks

ALbert

[Musclecarkid]

Too many hole-shots Albert? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many hole-shots Albert? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Kevin, I have to admit I may have done a few http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif, but I have never broken in a clutch!! I just go out and drive it!!...just reinforces the two steps forward and one step back theory that has plagued this car from the start!!.

ALbert

[njsteve]

I have a under-car transmission jack if you want to borrow it. It was quite a relief after years of trying to bench press those cast iron, 18-spline Chrysler A833 trannies. They make those M-22's feel like they're made out of balsa wood. You're welcome to borrow it. It think I'm only about 20 minutes from you. PM me if you need it. -Steve

[Alss]

STeve, thanks for the offer.but I have a buddy coming over to "assist"..He's a Master Ford tech at the local dealer, we'll knock it out in no time, and these Muncies at least have some aluminum parts http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Thanks

ALbert

[Salvatore]

That is a shame on the clutch deal Albert. Its always something! I like Hayes. There is one in my Z/28 now. Keep your head up. The bugs will get worked out. You have a great car. Sam http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[MYSTERYCHEVELLE]

[ QUOTE ]
STeve, thanks for the offer.but I have a buddy coming over to "assist"..He's a Master Ford tech at the local dealer, we'll knock it out in no time, and these Muncies at least have some aluminum parts http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Thanks

ALbert

[/ QUOTE ]

Albert

Can I get an appt. on the books at your garage with that Master Tech after your done... I had/have same or similar problem right after DOVER Show.. everything brand New.. Clutch, Pressure plate, throwout bearing, Pilot bearing, resurfaced Flywheel... got about 3 miles on the car and it's making an aweful racket!!!! on my way out of the Dover Show...she's been undercover sleeping ever since http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Mike

[njsteve]

One of the causes of early clutch failures is "hanging" the transmission while trying to get it seated in the pilot bushing. Just one second of off-center weight on the disc ruins it. That is why it is so critical to use a tranny jack or some other device to completely support the weight of the trans while you slide it into place. (I've learned from experience! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif)

[92646]

I do not not if this applies to big block Chevelles but on big block Camaros there is the issue of 3 different size throw out bearings and making sure that the replacement is the same height as the one that came out originally. Also if you have the original pressure plate available compare the height. I know this because when I installed a small block in a big block car I used the 11 inch clutch set up and the trans had to come out 3 times till I got it right.
Mark Sheppard

[Bill Rose]

[ QUOTE ]
One of the causes of early clutch failures is "hanging" the transmission while trying to get it seated in the pilot bushing. Just one second of off-center weight on the disc ruins it. That is why it is so critical to use a tranny jack or some other device to completely support the weight of the trans while you slide it into place. (I've learned from experience! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve, How would you know if the disc was ruined? What would it look like after you remove it? Would it be burned, or have scrapes in it, or ???

[njsteve]

No way to really tell by eye. If extreme cases you will see wear/burn marks on only one half of the flywheel. All it takes is to have the center hub portion bent by a couple thousandths and the disc is ruined. If it runs long enough it then wobbles/vibrates and damages the pressure plate. I've seen front bearings go and trans cases crack from the vibration in extreme instances.

In this case you would need to pull the flywheel and resurface it again to make sure it hasn't warped and then replace the disc, pressure plate and throwout bearing.

[68SSCamaro]

I have a set of pins that I made by cutting the heads off long bolts. I don't have the measurements here but I can get them when I get home. They thread into the bellhousing and leave a smooth surface. Once you get the tranny up on the pins it's aligned and you can slide it into place easily. I also have an extra yoke so I can turn it and slide at the same time. Works great on my BB Camaro.

[Bill Rose]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a set of pins that I made by cutting the heads off long bolts. I don't have the measurements here but I can get them when I get home. They thread into the bellhousing and leave a smooth surface. Once you get the tranny up on the pins it's aligned and you can slide it into place easily. I also have an extra yoke so I can turn it and slide at the same time. Works great on my BB Camaro.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Martin, I like your idea. Simple but effective. Cut the head off of 4 bolts, 4 inches long X 1/2 (I think) thread size. Thread them into the bellhousing a few turns and slide the trans in (or out). My trans/bellhousing is coming out for some cleanup and repaint after the season is over. I will give your idea a shot.

[Alss]

I'm gonna try it too..tomorrow!!clutch parts are in work begins at 8 AM,,first off to the hardware store to get some bolts http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Thanks.

ALbert

PS. Bill you can borrow them when I'm done http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[njsteve]

Hints from Heloise: http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gifafter you cut the ends off of the bolts, grind a slot into the end so you can use a scew driver to get them out when your done. Sometimes the trans binds them and makes it hard to remove them. Grease the sides, too to let the trans slide.

[Alss]

Well I am in from the pool after cooling off a bit. Clutch is in and operates a whole lot better than the old one!!, what a difference.Had a nice little road test http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif and all seems good., whew!!...have a driveshaft issue though..seems the shaft is too long( did I just say that?) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I have barely enough room to get the rear joint on the yoke. IS that too long?? I am sending the shaft out to be balanced and checked for straightness, now would be the time to address the length issue. Any thoughts??. Thanks

ALbert

[Keith Tedford]

From what I recall, our car didn't have much extra room to get the rear yoke up into place either.

[Jeff H]

Albert, what clutch did you end up going with? The clutch in my L78 car is giving me a lot of chatter trying to get the car moving so I'm guessing I'll be doing a clutch swap in the fall. I'm not looking for a racing setup, just something that will work and not be painfully stiff.

[Musclecarkid]

Albert

Make sure you have the rear axle supported on jack stands or the rear housing will hang down and slightly forward causing the driveshaft to appear too long. Measure the driveshaft in your 70 it should be the same length, or real close to the 69 driveshaft. Had the same problem with my 70 Chevelle, jacked up the year and the driveshaft fit perfect. You should have 3/4 to 1 inch of slip at the trans yoke.

[Alss]

Jeff, I use the Centerforce II..very happy with it, light pedal pressure and so far good grip. I am much happier with it than the heavy pedal Hays I had in it.

ALbert

[Alss]

Kevin, thanks I'll try that, but if anyone has a 69 shaft out that they can measure that would help out alot too. I bought this shaft separate from the car so I am not 100% sure it is the correct one. It fits and looks right but seems to be 2/1-3/4 of a inch too long.

ALbert

[68l30]

Al,ask the shop that is doing your driveshaft work where to measure from..On the car.. They will adjust the length of your shaft accordingly. Most have ther own way to come up with the dimensions...It's usually whatever works for them. I've built a lot of driveshafts this way.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif


Steve

[396/425blr]

i hate to say it but i am having trouble with my hays 11" set up also. i used a good used flywheel, had it surfaced ground and bought the complete kit. also installed new pilot bushing. this spring i noticed a "grunt" sound about halfway thru the release. now it is doing it more often, the other day after a 25 mile drive and 4 hour cool down i started it as usual and pushed the clutch in and it sounded like metal to metal loud squeal. it continued for a few gear changes and was then gone? i got home and got it raedy to put away and it was back to normal. i am almost afraid to take it all apart and not find the root cause for problem. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif dennis

[Alss]

The only difference I could see was the TO bearing that came with the Hays set up was almost 3/8 of a inch taller than the C-force one. Actually made the release arm sit too close to the bell housing. Something was not right there and now it is gone, thats all I care about!!. Ran the valves today, re-checked the timing..a little cleaning up and I'm ready for Collinsville!!!.

ALbert

[396/425blr]

found the problem with my noise today. it had nothing to do with the hays clutch setup. some dummy forgot to grease the pilot bushing (ME) before installing trans. i thought sure that i had done that too. well it was a cheap fix (new bushing) and a good reason to double check yourself on the simplest of matters. dennis