GM announces the 2009 Camaro

[PPPJJJFFF]

Reported today that GM will build a new Camaro starting in 2009. The new model will look the concept vehicle! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Patrick

[PeteLeathersac]

Where's the build plant gonna' be....have they clarified that today too? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[Steve Shauger]

I believe they had narrowed it down to two locations one in the US and one in Canada. I am curious about the selection as well.

[nuch_ss396]

Well, I guess history does repeat itself. Just like the lag
between the original Mustang and the 1967 Camaro, we now see
roughly the same lag between the "new" Mustang and the
proposed 2009 Camaro. When will GM learn? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[rsatz28]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I guess history does repeat itself. Just like the lag
between the original Mustang and the 1967 Camaro, we now see
roughly the same lag between the "new" Mustang and the
proposed 2009 Camaro. When will GM learn? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the decision was to let the hoopla die down after the Challenger comes out, and not have to compete for the attention. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Mr70]

I don't think it would have made any difference otherwise.
GM missed the boat!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it would have made any difference otherwise.
GM missed the boat!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto, the car looked a little bit nicer in person, but it's still ugly - and does not remind me of a 1st gen Camaro.

[Late BrakeU2]

Same as it ever was..
Naturally all is forgiven with an LS7 option http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Odds of that happening? 20%

Same as it ever was..

[Keith Tedford]

GM Oshawa has a big, new paint shop and the union gave up major concessions this past spring. I'd be surprised if Oshawa doesn't get the car. Flex manufacturing is coming. Not many of us are entirely clear in what it entails, but it is bound to be GOOD for GM. They are already hiring contract production workers at $27 an hour and few benefits from what I understand. File one grievance and no renewal of the contract seems likely. Very convenient for the company and the union. Pay your dues and be very very quiet. There are a lot of other changes going on here as well such as outsourcing the 400 or so cleaner attendants and sweepers jobs.
I think that the ricer boys like retro as well as we do. Drive by them in a parking lot and watch the rubber necking. Our old car do attract the attention. The new Camaro, as announced last spring, misses the mark. Not enough retro and too limited a market. A Chevelle would have had more practical passemger seating space, for those who wanted practical. Found that out when I had my '68 Firebird. The Chevelle far outsold the Camaro in the old days, so there are a lot of people who might just buy one again for old times sake. All GM lines had an "A" body car so they could once again have a Buick GS, Pontiac GTO, and Chevelle SS. As it stands, Buick is left out in the cold. In the musclecar era, the "A" body cars changed every 2-3 years giving the retro people more of a variety to choose from. They would have '66-'67, '68-'69, and then '70-'72.The Camaro basically had the '67-'69 first generation and then the second generation to choose from, limiting the retro variety that GM will have to work with. Lastly, why would GM want to compete directly with Ford for the same market. A Chevelle would still be retro but appeal to a slightly different group with enough overlap that they wouldn't miss the mark even if the Chevelle didn't turn out the be as popular as a Camaro would have been. Then again I do have some Chevelle tendencies and am slightly biased. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jeff H]

It's coming out a little later than I thought it would. As for the looks of the car, I personally don't care that much for the retro thing, it gives you nowhere to go in the future. Will the new Mustang turn into the new Mustang II in 2-3 years. If so, that would be perfect for GM since nobody will want that Mustang and a new Camaro will be showing up. If you want a car that looks like something older, go buy the older car and put the modern stuff in it yourself. 75% of the new Mustangs on the road in my area are 6 cyl cars so there's nothing exciting about that. I'd take an LS2 or LS7 Camaro over a 6 cyl retro Mustang any day. The new Challenger will be stuck in the same place as the new Mustang, where do you go next with the design?

[CamarosRus]

I am thinking a small percenatge of "old school" Camaro enthusiasts (i.e. 1 & 2nd Gen anyway) will actually, go out and buy a new Camaro. Just because its new and has the CAMARO name, isnt enough for me to spend ?$?$?$.
I'm certain that the deep pocket crowd, will buy the LS2 or LS7 version IF and when that ever gets built, how many more years into the future. G.M. cant be expected to stay in business or profit on the "few" LS7 Camaros it might make.
It will probably take the younger crowd to go out and buy these new Camaros to turn any sales numbers.
I sure hope these design and marketing guru's have there act together........

[Late BrakeU2]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIRST-08-...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FIRST-08-CAMARO-TO-BE-OFFERED-BUY-IT-NOW-OR-BEST-OFFER_W0QQitemZ300016433097QQihZ020QQcategoryZ6161 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Be the envy of all the other kids your block,only 25k over and a short wait till the end of the decade! Hmmm..how many Challengers can they sell in two years http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

As Harry Caray used to state so eloquently when opposing teams hit em where they weren't-

"ball drops,run scores."

[70CitrusZ]

The retro thing is old news and I don't think it will fly for the Camaro.
If GM does their normal thing it will be too expensive, too heavy and too late.
The show car isn't crisp enough, its too blocky and the grille looks stupid in my opinion.
They need to make it light, fast, sharp and with enough owner choosable options to make each one unique.

[rubbinisracing]

Theres no future in building a car that a bunch of 40 year old white guys like. The mustang is due for restyling in 08 and is moving away from the retro look. my hope is that they get the average 16-25 old to buy one and keep the build quality and cool factor high so that they can keep customers for life and keep the lineage going. We need strong manufacturing companies in this country so the profits don't go overseas. Our muscle cars heritage will be gone otherwise.

Anyone on this board collecting Kaiser, Hupmobile or Hudson?

[Steve Shauger]

I really like the new Camaro. If you want great all around performance and new technology in a 69 camaro build a resto mod or pro-touring car, or have someone build it for you. The NEW camaro does have some historical roots but it's a new beginning and will sink or swim on it's own merit.

[king_midas]

This car reminds me of the phrase "you can't go home again." The problem really is that there are many sedans in the range that the Camaro needs to be priced at that will perform at 9/10 of it's capability RIGHT NOW. Seeing the numbers on the new 335i (twin turbo) BMW, the Camaro may even be outperformed, because by 2009, the other manufacturers will up the ante to try to catch it. Also, GM says it will be like the concept, but when has that ever happened? There's still time to completely ruin what's there by tacking on spoilers and doo-dads, and what's there isn't exactly the sweetest package I've ever seen anyway...

Look at the catastrophic failure that is/was the GTO. Even with a bona-fide world-beater that is equipped with a high-tech suspension and hot-rod heart, they can't give those things away (ok, that's an exaggeration, but...). I took my wife to look at the GTO in 2004, and she was about as interested in it as going to the dentist. What does that tell you? It tells me that buyers are more sophisticated than GM gives them credit for being-- That cars can no longer be one-dimensional, and that having 400 hp doesn't allow you to take a bunch of poorly-executed shortcuts.

Aaah, GM... Guess what-- It's no longer 1970. Maybe GM should change the corporate name to Rip Van Winkle?

[Canucklehead]

I wonder if the interest is in the car it self (if any other name would it still have this much attention), or is it that they're resurecting the "Camaro" name?. Personally i think it's the fact that the Camaro is coming back, i could do without the car, i think by the time it comes out the hype will be over and the car will be a disapointment.

[Donutblue]

Personally, I like the new Camaro however, It's my opinion that GM could have done more with it. IMO Keith is on target with plans for the Oshawa plant and hopefully GM will use this platform to bring back a retro Chevelle or other retro Chevy muscle. I believe that GM's "alway's late" problem stems from to many exec's and CEO's paying more attention to their paydays then they are to the competition. It's obvious GM does not particpate in corporate spying. Time to wake up with the sunrise GM, don't wait for the stars to come out.

[nuch_ss396]

The more posts I read about this, the more I can't help but
think that GM will miss the "whole retro thing" by 2009.

I'm sick of it already ! Once it runs its course, it will
fizzle. And - that's exactly when the new Camaro will debut! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Tommy_Mathison]

Will there be a convertible? I hate the whole "convertible comes out 2 years later" thing like with the C5 vette.

Tommy M

[Steve Shauger]

The rumor is yes.

[robber6910]

How disappointing would it be if GM gets cold feet and scraps the Camaro before the first fiberglass panel is molded? Guess i'll have to go to Joel with the kids college funds http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[70CitrusZ]

I just looked at the new Camaro picture again. Hoping to change my opinion...nope. Man that thing is butt-ugly.
doesn't look enough retro for retro, and as a new style is not fresh at all it looks dated and cobbled together.

Maybe GM can borrow the guy who designed the mustang to design the Camaro too.

[Dave Rifkin]

I guess I'm in the minority here but I like the design. I could do without the opening above the grille but, other than that, I think it looks good. It has a lot of potential be made to look as retro as you want it to be or you could leave it as is.
I am disappointed with GM in that they always seem to take too long to come out with their cars and other makes get the jump on them. The GM Execs need to grow a set and take a chance every once in a while. Maybe they're gun shy since they obviously took a chance with the GTO and that ugly "Asstek" and they were both flops for different reasons.
If they don't price the new Camaro out of the average person's range I think we may be surprised at how well it does; I know I want one.

[COPO427]

Yuk. GM didn't want to retro the Camaro as Ford and Chrysler are doing for the boomers. I may get myself a Hemi Challenger. GM missed the boat as they did in '64 with the Stang.

http://www.mcqueenonline.com/steveinmustang.jpg

http://www.stockmopar.com/_images/challenger/2008/official/passenger-front.jpg

[Canucklehead]

[ QUOTE ]
I just looked at the new Camaro picture again. Hoping to change my opinion...nope. Man that thing is butt-ugly.
doesn't look enough retro for retro, and as a new style is not fresh at all it looks dated and cobbled together.

Maybe GM can borrow the guy who designed the mustang to design the Camaro too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's being marketed as a "retro" car, it just a new generation camaro with some cues from the past. Therefore it won't make a difference when (if) it comes out. Toyota may own GM by then http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif,.........who knows.

Then i guess it would be the new Camalo!

[Xplantdad]

Wouldn't it be the Camarillo, then? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the build plant gonna' be....have they clarified that today too? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand it will be built in Canada at the Oshawa (sp) plant, which will be upgraded.

[SSJunkie68-69]

I have heard that too.

As I understand it, the deal that GM struck with the Canadians in the late 90's that resulted in more favorable terms for GM and more concessions by the Canadians was mostly based on the fact that as long as GM made Camaros it would be done soley at the St. Therese plant for a specified number of years. Once the production stopped in 2002 there was specualtion that a legal mess would start if the Camaro came back and was made in any other plant but St Therese.

The matter was further complicated when that plant was torn down and demolished in the past 24 months or so. GM feels that since the plant is no longer there they were not obligated to return production to Canada. On the other side, the Canadians feel that they have an agreement in place with GM and would be prepared to seek restitution from GM if they resumed production and it wasn't in a Canadian plant.

I read an article about 18 months ago that went into this. I will try and dig it up and post it here.

[nuch_ss396]

Aaah that's just great! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Just what we need to see - possible litigation and union
problems to slow down the introduction of the '09 Camaro.

Where do we get off this train? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[robber6910]

they could start building the cars and go on strike. how much more retro would that be? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Donutblue]

I wonder what kind of surprise's will be laying under the rear seats if there's union problems ??? Anyone missing a ham sandwich ?

[robber6910]

So thats where the extra set of keys are?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[COPO427]

[ QUOTE ]
Once the production stopped in 2002 there was specualtion that a legal mess would start if the Camaro came back and was made in any other plant but St Therese.

[/ QUOTE ]

GM has not decided where the plant will be. It will be either in Oshawa or in Delaware. There are no legal issues with the Plant being in Canada due to the closure of the St Therese Plant.

[LVCamaro]

even better from GM

awesome (http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_2009_chevrolet_corvette_z07/)

[Xplantdad]

So Steve, when are you placing your order? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And more importantly...when do I get a ride? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[COPO427]

[ QUOTE ]
even better from GM

awesome (http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_2009_chevrolet_corvette_z07/)

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I have $100 G's under my mattress.

[Tim Penton]

I'm with you Steve!!!! Definately BETTER!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[NEW]

The day they release the ordering forms for the new Camaro, i will order one, stripped down, coupe, with the biggest engine available. Call my friend Mike @ GMMG , and get help to wake it up as much as possible.

NEW

[Born30YrsLate]

[ QUOTE ]
even better from GM

awesome (http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_2009_chevrolet_corvette_z07/)

[/ QUOTE ]

put that motor in the new camaro and I think i may have a good reason to blow my powder!...

[LS6M22]

[ QUOTE ]
The day they release the ordering forms for the new Camaro, i will order one, stripped down, coupe, with the biggest engine available. Call my friend Mike @ GMMG , and get help to wake it up as much as possible. NEW

[/ QUOTE ]
Just like how I ordered my 2000 Z28.I bet power windows and locks will be standard though which sucks!The days of you ordering a true stripper is over unless you buy a truck or rice burner!!

NEW

[/ QUOTE ]

[PeteLeathersac]

GM announced Friday it will hold a news conference at its main Oshawa car plant this morning Aug 26'th....you can guess the rest.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[PeteLeathersac]

I meant this morning the 21'st....not the other this morning the 26'th?? .

~ Pete

[Keith Tedford]

One news truck was already there at 6:30 AM today. Looks good for Oshawa employment for a few more years.

[PeteLeathersac]

About 5 minutes to go before the big announcement! .

Hey Keith....if Oshawa is the winner, shall we try and track where the pre-production pilot units go? . I have a good idea....not that they'd be obtainable but they may stay in one piece? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[PPPJJJFFF]

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/gm-to-produce-new-camaro-in-canada/n20060821112009990001

[PeteLeathersac]

Yep....it's a go for Oshawa!!! .

Although great news, I somehow can't help but feel this may be one of the last great announcements for the Ontario...maybe even North American auto manufacturing industry? .

If it's not too late already, our governments better start taxing the sh!+ out of import vehicles and materials and saving the dough to give everyone when the bottom completely falls out of what's left of our manufacturing industry? .

Kill the Wal-Mart types now....again if it's not too late already! .

I read online that the new Challenger is going to be built at the Brampton Ontario plant....is this true? .

~ Pete

[Canucklehead]

Im my sept issue of playboy, they show a breakdown of the new mustang verses a toyota minivan of where the parts are made. The mustang had 45% amaerican made parts in it where as the toyota was 90% american made!!!

[PeteLeathersac]

That's so true in a lot of cases! .
I wasn't pointing any fingers at specific brands, only at 'import vehicles and materials' themselves. .
Ontario has a bunch of import companies here, Honda, Toyota etc....so as long as North America gets the manufacturing, I'm all for whatever vehicle or merchandise it is. .
Ok, I'll probably still pass on the Fords myself! .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[will]

so if the camaro comes back, will there be any specail editions, like ZL1,Dickey harrell,berger ????

I didn't findout about these new(er) super cars until after I had bought my SS camaro

[MikeA]

I was reading the November issue of Muscle Car Enthusiast magazine and they had a small article with a couple pictures of the new Camaro. IMHO the Camaro is just an ugly, ugly car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[deuce-less]

gm is trying to keep pace with the retro muscle cars from the other major players...

i don't think any modern muscle will ever evoke the same emotions that the muscle cars of the sixties did jmo


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[427king]

There was a chevy dealer on Ebay a few months ago[it still wasnt a definite then that the camaro would come out] selling the right to contract one of these. Just send your deposit in, wait 2 years,and then hope they end up making the car??dealers are getting ridiculous,they should worry more about thier market share on thier other models they cant sell...Im getting ready to put a deposit on a 2012 Challenger.5 years will be here before you know it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif If i remember correct Charlie,you had made a post some time ago that it is illegal to sell something that you dont have in your possesion or cant get in a reasonable period of time,isnt that true???

[deuce-less]

i really loved the performance of my 2002 zl1 phase III camaro, although for me, it wasn't the same fun as driving a great classic muscle car like the 1969 camaro. the 2002 did some things much better than the 1969 camaro, i guess for me the visual rewards of the classic muscle cars are more satisfying than the modern muscle cars.


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[427king]

Alan, One thing for sure is with the new cars you dont have to worry about running red lights in the hot weather so the car doesnt overheat , and not worrying about your car not starting http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[deuce-less]

maybe you're right chuck, perhaps the new cars are just too easy.

i know that for me, the more i'm personally invested in a car i.e. blood sweat and tears, the more i love it.


it's gotta start for me though http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[1970Bluel78]

On the Cheers and Gears GM website there is a brief video of the Camaro from the new " Transformer " movie

[blackbeast]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe you're right chuck, perhaps the new cars are just too easy.

i know that for me, the more i'm personally invested in a car i.e. blood sweat and tears, the more i love it.

it's gotta start for me though http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

and the new cars just don't feel fast. They're almost too refined, and not pound your kidneys brutal. Or maybe the extra excitement is caused by wondering if something is going to blow apart at any second? I'd love to get a new GTO for a DD, but i think i would always like a simple carb'd rusty toy.