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Ngtflyr
08-12-2006, 01:05 AM
This is the most cogent and powerful essay on the threat of Islamic terrorism I have seen. This is a pretty long read but in light of this week's terrrorist attempt to blow up 9-10 US and British Flagged carriers it is time well spent.

Please take the time to read the attached essay by Dr. Vernon Chong. It is without a doubt the most articulate and convincing writing I have read regarding the War in Iraq. If you have any doubts please open your mind to his essay and give a fair evaluation. It's also eerily applicable to other current issues (Iran's nuclear program, immigration, NAFTA's impact on American jobs, trade deficits, etc.). I had no idea who Dr. Chong is , or the source of these thoughts... so when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as they are. But then I did a "Google search" on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio. So he is real, is connected to Veterans affairs in California, and these are his thoughts. They are worth reading and thinking about! (the same Google search will direct you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)


If you would like to see who this fellow is, go to this Air Force web site and look him up. http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C <http://www.af.mil/bios/alpha.asp?alpha=C>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA: A different spin on Iraq war.

This WAR is for REAL!
Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retired

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001.
The answer as far as the United States is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide).


2. Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

3. Who were the attackers?
In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World?
25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).
(see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm)

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.


Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.


So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war?

2. What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we are impotent and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast!

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win!

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.


And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.


If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world!

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our "leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

kwhizz
08-12-2006, 01:34 AM
Finally.......Someone with Logic and common sense...A "Trait" which is missing from most of the "Politician's" in Washington........Most of these "PinHeads" don't get it and just want to do the Politically correct thing to remain in Power.......Look at Joe Liebermann.....His Party sold him down the River because he actually understood what is going on here and how important it is to be firm and unyielding......A stance that the MoveOn. org people (Who are takeing over the Democratic Party) didn't like and are useing against the Present Administration "For Political Gain" purpose's.......Rather than doing what's best for the American people, It's what's best for "Getting or Keeping Power"...........Pretty Sad......

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

nuch_ss396
08-12-2006, 02:37 AM
Dave,

Great post. I'd like to hear this General speak in person. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

His analysis about the French is accurate - I think.
They have rolled over twice for the Germans ( WWI & WWII )
and if history repeats itself ( and it does ), they will
be overtaken by the Muslims before they even know it. And,
much like the French did during the Nazi occupation of their
country, most will collaborate with the Muslims so as not to
cause damage to the French infrastructure. They will never
wake up. It's endemmic with their culture.

The Muslims are out of control and we need to kick some
serious a$$ over there. It's time to take it to the next
level or we will all suffer. Ask yourself what will happen
to this country if somehow the Muslim's gain control of the
oil supplies in the mid-east. They will bring this country
to a stand still until we ourselves implode.

I have been in fear of this since I witnessed the collapse
of towers 1 & 2 on 9/11. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Verne_Frantz
08-12-2006, 02:52 AM
As I read that, I suddenly thought of the old movie when Michael Renne told the "earth" that as long as you confine your problems to fighting among yourselves, we have no interest, but when you pose a threat to the rest of civilization, we will "eliminate" you. You will be reduced to a burning cinder.

The quote from the above text is something we should never forget. "Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels! That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense."

Political Correctness and our ways of peaceful logic are not understood by those leaders (and followers). They are dedicated to violence until we are all dead.

If the guy next door told you that he was committed to finding a way to killing you sooner or later, and nothing you could say to him would change his mind, what would you finally be forced to do.? Even if went against your entire American up-bringing and beliefs in peace and honor?

We can't even carry a bottle of water with us on an airplane anymore.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

kwhizz
08-12-2006, 03:02 AM
We need to get "Gort" into the Mix.........Klaatu Barada Nikto

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/gort.jpg

Ken

Verne_Frantz
08-12-2006, 03:35 AM
Ken,
I wish we HAD a world police force like that. It would get the politicians off the hook for making the decision. I wish FDR was still here.

Tim Penton
08-12-2006, 06:09 AM
Dave, Excellent post. I'm very glad that you posted it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

nuch_ss396
08-12-2006, 06:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
We need to get "Gort" into the Mix.........Klaatu Barada Nikto

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/gort.jpg

Ken

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, all we need to this guy!
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/nuch_ss396/misc/wayne11.jpg

He would know what to do.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

mrtimstik
08-12-2006, 04:16 PM
Great post and a great read. The United States do have a very uphill battle balancing the political correctness we all expect from our leaders and the barbaric primal intent of the muslum terrorists. I say fight fire with fire and start unsensoring the news and show clearly what we are up against. Educate the public and unify the cause. Remember the commercial on TV that showed the 9/11 attack and ended up showing how we all placed American flags on our homes? We need more stimulation in that direction.

Chevy454
08-12-2006, 04:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
His analysis about the French is accurate - I think. They have rolled over twice for the Germans ( WWI & WWII ) and if history repeats itself ( and it does ), they will be overtaken by the Muslims before they even know it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think one of my fellow Missourian's put it best, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme..." Think back about a Millenium to how (and by whom) the Crusades started...

JoeG
08-12-2006, 05:33 PM
Saheb454........The Trojan horse is already here and the assimilation process has already cleverly begun........AbdulaG

njsteve
08-12-2006, 10:08 PM
Check out this American Muslim's view as she debates hardliners on Al Jazeera. Simply amazing woman. Check out the link before they delete it and/or assasinate her. The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from Los Angeles.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

WILMASBOYL78
08-12-2006, 11:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We need to get "Gort" into the Mix.........Klaatu Barada Nikto

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/kwhizz/gort.jpg

Ken

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell, all we need to this guy!
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/nuch_ss396/misc/wayne11.jpg

He would know what to do.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


10/4 on the Duke!!!

wilma

JoeG
08-13-2006, 01:52 AM
It was a very focused speech on her part and to the heart of some of the fanatical believes of the hardliners..Good thing she lives in LA....Well said http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

nuch_ss396
08-13-2006, 04:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
..Good thing she lives in LA....Well said http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really! Some of the 9/11 hijackers lived in the US at
the time. If they want her, she's toast!!

No one is safe any more. Several months ago, I
was flying home from Newark NJ to Asheville NC. There were
two muslims on this flight and they sat across the isle
from me. They kept taking pictures out the window and
talking to each other in their native tongue. I was so
un-nerved at this that I watched them like a hawk the entire
flight. When one got up ( to go to the restroom ), I was
ready to spring up if he headed toward the front of the plane
instead of the rear of the plane.

Is that racial profiling? YOU BET! Guess what else? TOO DAMN BAD!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Didn't another disaster almost happen again this past weekend?
They won't stop! We must stop them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Donutblue
08-13-2006, 05:35 AM
Dr. Chong should be a presidential advisor. Makes a lot of sense. ---- Sounds as if we will be hitting France's shores once again someday soon.

nuch_ss396
08-13-2006, 06:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Dr. Chong should be a presidential advisor. Makes a lot of sense. ---- Sounds as if we will be hitting France's shores once again someday soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think, for the USA, the third time will be the charm and
we will say NO!

Donutblue
08-13-2006, 05:35 PM
I agree 210 percent with your thought. But as long as we are considered the worlds "Policeman" and if the bad guys start striking at us from there, I'm sure we would end up striking back, no matter where they are. ---- On another note, Vietnam was a French Province, so it would make the 4th time a charm.

nuch_ss396
08-13-2006, 10:45 PM
Yes George, it was a French Province, but not nearly the
same as landing on French shores and ridding it of invaders.

Donutblue
08-14-2006, 12:08 AM
Steve - I agree, yes France seems to have forgotten the sacrifices made by not only American and Allied forces during the World Wars, but their families. -- Personally, my father was wounded and captured in France during 1944 for 6 months before escaping from a POW camp. I served in Vietnam in 1972.

WILMASBOYL78
08-14-2006, 05:42 PM
Here's a little more info on our French buddies......received this from a USMC Vietnam Vet...it really sums up the whole deal!

Dick Forrey of the Vietnam veterans Association wrote.

"Recently we asked the local TARGET store to be a proud sponsor of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall during our spring recognition event. We received the following reply from the local TARGET management:
" Veterans do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social action groups, gay & lesbian causes, and education"

So, I'm thinking, if the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall and veterans in general, do not meet their donation criteria, then something is really wrong at this TARGET store. We weren't asking for thousands of dollars, not even hundreds, just a small sponsorship for a memorial remembrance.

As a follow-up, I E-mailed the TARGET U.S. Corporate Headquarters and their response was the same! That is their national policy.....

Then I looked into the company further. they will not allow the Marines to collect for Toys for Tots at any of their stores. During the Iraq deployment, they would not allow families of employees who were called up to continue their insurance coverage while they were in military service. Then I dug further...TARGET is a French owned corporation!

Now, I'm thinking again..if TARGET cannot support American Veterans, then why should my family and I support their stores by spending our hard earned American dollars!

And, have the profits sent to France!

Without the American Vets where would France be today?

"They would most likely be speaking German and trading in Deutsch Marks"

Richard Forrey
Vietnam Veterans Association


How's that from our French friends....the fold like a cheap suit every time somebody pushes them. Think about all those guys buried in Flanders Fields and the thousands who made the ultimate sacrifice on Omaha Beach!

Someone in our political leadership has to speak up and set the world straight!.It is long overdue.......


wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

ANDY M
08-14-2006, 07:54 PM
Maybe this letter makes it easier to understand how Israel feels about French soldiers being the UN peacekeeping troops between them and Hezbollah. No wonder they won't leave Lebanon until the French show up.
The French have a long history of anti-semitism, and collaborating with their enemies.
If you think the American people don't trust the French, just think how Israel feels about being "protected" by them from Hezbollah. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
France is the next Facist Muslim target.

nuch_ss396
08-14-2006, 08:34 PM
Hey Tom,

Want to buy an original French military rifle? Only dropped once http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

427TJ
08-14-2006, 09:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
"Veterans do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social action groups, gay & lesbian causes, and education"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the lawyers talking. Supporting arts and education is a no-brainer. Everybody loves arts and education so it's no financial risk to the corporation to support them. Just as every fund-raiser nowadays is "for kids." Easy, no $$$ risk. Social action groups and gay and lesbian groups can cause all sorts of problems for the corporation. If Target were to refuse to support one of these groups there'd be an uproar over Target's "intolerance."* Being labeled "intolerant"* would cost the corporation millions, so corporate lawyers whisper, "It's cheaper to support social activists and gay/lesbian causes" into the ears of the board of directors. Veterans groups don't cause the same kind of uproar that the more vocal groups do so it's easier for Target to refuse support to vets. Think of the "squeaky wheel" analogy. Vets don't represent a vocal and potentially expensive problem the way certain other social groups do.** If Target's legal department (and every other corporation for that matter) sees no financial liability/loss of business then they'll okay their support. If they see a huge financial liability for not offereing support then they quietly allow Target to support a certain group. Veterans groups (apparently) don't fall into the "We'd better support them or it'll cost us big dollars" category.




*Tolerance: You have to tolerate me but I don't have to tolerate you. (Now you know all you need to know about "tolerance.")

**Veterans have seen all the war and conflict they can stand. Thus, they are often too proud and civil to cause costly demonstrations against a corporation such as Target. The vets just fold the flag and move on and Target's legal department knows that. Another thing to keep in mind is that average Americans don't want to be reminded of the sacrifices made by American military veterans. Americans want their wars won cleanly and in an exciting, celebratory fashion and NO BLOOD and GUTS please. So when the Vietnam Memorial Wall comes to town it's a big downer for most people, many of whom have no idea what Vietnam is or what happened there. The real vets and the educated people who know damn-well what that wall really means will come out and support the vets and the sacrifice of our fallen heores. Everyone else just wants to go into Target and buy stuff and not be reminded of messy wars and tragic loss. Oh, and cheap gas too please. American society has become extremely comfortable since 1945 and we've given in to a consumpton and comfort-based standard of living. American soldiers die in Iraq almost daily and no one says a word. BP announces a pipline shutdown in Alaska and there's sudden nervous concern over rising gas prices. But, I digress. Until veterans groups make more noise than certain social groups and gay/lesbian groups, the corporate lawyers and the American public will continue to ignore them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. (The money and the attention, that is.)

kwhizz
08-14-2006, 11:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Veterans do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social action groups, gay & lesbian causes, and education"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the lawyers talking. Supporting arts and education is a no-brainer. Everybody loves arts and education so it's no financial risk to the corporation to support them. Just as every fund-raiser nowadays is "for kids." Easy, no $$$ risk. Social action groups and gay and lesbian groups can cause all sorts of problems for the corporation. If Target were to refuse to support one of these groups there'd be an uproar over Target's "intolerance."* Being labeled "intolerant"* would cost the corporation millions, so corporate lawyers whisper, "It's cheaper to support social activists and gay/lesbian causes" into the ears of the board of directors. Veterans groups don't cause the same kind of uproar that the more vocal groups do so it's easier for Target to refuse support to vets. Think of the "squeaky wheel" analogy. Vets don't represent a vocal and potentially expensive problem the way certain other social groups do.** If Target's legal department (and every other corporation for that matter) sees no financial liability/loss of business then they'll okay their support. If they see a huge financial liability for not offereing support then they quietly allow Target to support a certain group. Veterans groups (apparently) don't fall into the "We'd better support them or it'll cost us big dollars" category.




*Tolerance: You have to tolerate me but I don't have to tolerate you. (Now you know all you need to know about "tolerance.")

**Veterans have seen all the war and conflict they can stand. Thus, they are often too proud and civil to cause costly demonstrations against a corporation such as Target. The vets just fold the flag and move on and Target's legal department knows that. Another thing to keep in mind is that average Americans don't want to be reminded of the sacrifices made by American military veterans. Americans want their wars won cleanly and in an exciting, celebratory fashion and NO BLOOD and GUTS please. So when the Vietnam Memorial Wall comes to town it's a big downer for most people, many of whom have no idea what Vietnam is or what happened there. The real vets and the educated people who know damn-well what that wall really means will come out and support the vets and the sacrifice of our fallen heores. Everyone else just wants to go into Target and buy stuff and not be reminded of messy wars and tragic loss. Oh, and cheap gas too please. American society has become extremely comfortable since 1945 and we've given in to a consumpton and comfort-based standard of living. American soldiers die in Iraq almost daily and no one says a word. BP announces a pipline shutdown in Alaska and there's sudden nervous concern over rising gas prices. But, I digress. Until veterans groups make more noise than certain social groups and gay/lesbian groups, the corporate lawyers and the American public will continue to ignore them. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. (The money and the attention, that is.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you say.......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gifReverend Jesse Jackson http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif.....He has learned and played his "Lesson's" well......These groups see what works and adjust accordingly....

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

69LM1
08-15-2006, 12:21 AM
Sorry Guys!
This one (the Target email from a vet) is Urban Legend and a RUMOR. You need to be careful when passing these along. Check sites such as snopes.com etc to make sure that the email you got was true and not a scam from a competitor.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/target.asp

427TJ
08-15-2006, 03:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This one (the Target email from a vet) is Urban Legend and a RUMOR.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Well I guess that shoots my explanation right in the ass! Those darn "urban legends." (Why are they "urban" anyway. Aren't there any suburban legends?)

69LM1
08-15-2006, 04:04 AM
Does'nt make you any less correct though, just not in this case!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

WILMASBOYL78
08-15-2006, 05:34 AM
Well.....I guess my Marine buddy passed on some bad info..it is easy to get carried away along with these kind of things....about now I don't know what to believe http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif so I'll just say goodnite!

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Canucklehead
08-15-2006, 08:28 PM
Ask any returning soldier what is really going on there and its a completely different story then what we get out of our media. Peolpe need to know exactly whats going on so we can all make a informed plan.

Chevy454
08-15-2006, 08:55 PM
That's a good point Canucklehead...the media is all the time boasting about getting to the meat of things and putting it out there regardless of the slant, but more times than not you can feel the *spin* before the segment is even over...and don't think for a second the media doesn't have their agenda as well, whether it be winning the Nielsons or winning the particular political seat of the day...

Ngtflyr
08-15-2006, 09:42 PM
I take anything from virtually any media source with a grain of salt. Think about anything you have seen on the news that you are an expert on, if the media is trying... they might have it 40% correct at best. Accurate stories from the media are few and far between. Then throw in their slant on the story to make it better fit their agenda. Sad thing is that a majority of liberals really, truely think the Bovine Scattalogy offered by the media is accurate!

nuch_ss396
08-16-2006, 12:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I... Sad thing is that a majority of liberals really, truely think the Bovine Scattalogy offered by the media is accurate!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's because they want to believe it so much.
Then they follow the other sheep to the slaughter....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

71-LS6
08-16-2006, 02:53 AM
Ditto to Dr. Vernon Chong (USAF ret.). That man said everything that I have thought since our 9/11 wake-up call was delivered. I've had all "the religion of peace BS" that I can possibly choke down. The only positive angle that I can see lately, is that "profiling" is now being discussed more and more on the political shows and talk radio. Profiling is a positive (and logical) step toward identifying the dirty bastards who want our heads. We should all do our best to persuade friends, family, and politicians to recognize the danger we face as a country.

Chevy454
08-16-2006, 05:51 AM
Oh, they're profiling on the airlines already! I've only flown a handful of times in my life, all within the last year, and every time but once they've pulled the whitest guy they could find right out of line, while the rest of the plane is boarding, and dressed him down...and guess who that lucky soul was! Your's truly!! My wife always gets a kick out of it, and it's kind of a running joke now...but it kinda makes ya wonder if they shouldn't be paying attention to the folks getting on the plane instead of messing with some Hillbilly!

And another rant...when are they gonna start checking the folks loading the plane, or even limit access to it? Here at work we occasionally pickup *clients* down at the cargo docks...getting up close and personal with the tarmac is as easy as turning left instead of continuing on to the terminal...

427TJ
08-16-2006, 06:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
And another rant...when are they gonna start checking the folks loading the plane, or even limit access to it?

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be bad for business. Most ramp jobs, if they have not yet been outsourced, have been outsourced to outside contractors. And who do the outside contractors like to hire? New immigrants are very popular because they will work for anything. They don't cause labor hassles (no union talk) and are probably delighted just to have a job in America.

TSA screening is mainly a big show for the traveling public. All sorts of miscreants come and go down on the ramp while passengers and flight crews have to take off their shoes and toss their bottled water in the trash, etc. If we really got serious about screening ramp employees and cargo it would quickly induce an unwanted cost on the airlines. Screening passengers and crew is one thing both the airlines and TSA/the government can agree on, really getting serious about screening EVERYBODY and EVERYTHING on the airport might begin to cost money.

You can put your shoes on now.

camarojoe
08-16-2006, 06:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
...but it kinda makes ya wonder if they shouldn't be paying attention to the folks getting on the plane instead of messing with some Hillbilly!



[/ QUOTE ]

That's nothing... i heard they're gonna start requiring shirts with sleeves for all passengers. Rob, I'm afraid you're gonna have to take the bus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Xplantdad
08-16-2006, 07:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...but it kinda makes ya wonder if they shouldn't be paying attention to the folks getting on the plane instead of messing with some Hillbilly!



[/ QUOTE ]

That's nothing... i heard they're gonna start requiring shirts with sleeves for all passengers. Rob, I'm afraid you're gonna have to take the bus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Schonyenko2
08-16-2006, 07:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...but it kinda makes ya wonder if they shouldn't be paying attention to the folks getting on the plane instead of messing with some Hillbilly!



[/ QUOTE ]
No, I think they're on the right trail with those hillbillies. I think you've even become politicaly correct as your calling the cargo "clients". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I think a good place to start would be to shut off Rush, or moveon.org, and put on some good Beattles, or for you hillbilies some Johnny Cash. Not much good comes from any talk radio except to incite the masses. Hate is easy. Common sense, and logic take more than a 5 second sound byte. Research the information that you hear, and make sure it's the truth, not just someones interpretation of it. Someone mentioned FDR. He said "All you have to fear is fear itself. He knew that fear can blind good judgement, and common sense. Who ever that was, they were right. We could use him now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

quick-bowtie
08-16-2006, 08:00 AM
Dr. Vernon Chong's thoughts are what every true red blooded AMERICAN thinks.. Screw this rules of war crap, as far as Im concerned anything goes in war all I can say is if I was over fighting Id be shooting who ever the heck was in my way or looked at me twice. I cant believe our Country has the nerve to put our own soldiers on trial for shooting an quote on quote innocent by stander.. B.S. These freaks will blow themselves up with out thinking twice so as far as shooting an innocent person well..SORRY YOU WERE IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME! Im think we owe or Soldiers everything and then some!! for putting they're life on the line for us. Our Country is turning it a circus side show with the way its ran! THE AMERICAN NEWS MEDIA IS 100% TO BLAME these people are just as bad as the TERRORIST if not WORSE! They give the terrorist our plans of war before the Generals even get them and then when ever you turn on the T.V. there is always some frickin' lady crying about how her family was shot, you never hear about the bad people we shoot or the progress we made its always the poor lady showing her blown up house or them crying about or MEAN SOLDIERS THAT KILL PEOPLE. Someone with some balls has get into office or a power spot and step up and get things done! Dr. Vernon Chong sound like a darn good start. Ive said this numerous times Id give up every penny to my name and start fresh if it went to wiping out these morons because when they were all gone the world would be a safer place and it would thrive!!

Im am not political at all but this is a sore subject because the little man never gets heard.. Put any REAL RED BLOODED AMERICAN ON T.V. PRIME TIME FOR 1 HOUR AND LET HIM SPEAK HIS MIND AND THEN TAKE A POLL ON HOW MANY AMERICANS FEEL THE SAME WAY.. I BET IT WOULD BE IN THE 80% RANGE OR HIGHER. (Of course you could never get the truth from the terroist news media) I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND CRANK LEE GREENWOODS (PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN) EVERYTIME IT COMES ON THE RADIO AND SMILE, JUST CANT STAND THE WAY ITS BEING RUN.

AND AS FAR AS RACIAL PROFILING GOES..

ALL I CAN SAY IS HELL YES 100%.

kwhizz
08-16-2006, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...but it kinda makes ya wonder if they shouldn't be paying attention to the folks getting on the plane instead of messing with some Hillbilly!



[/ QUOTE ]
No, I think they're on the right trail with those hillbillies. I think you've even become politicaly correct as your calling the cargo "clients". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I think a good place to start would be to shut off Rush, or moveon.org, and put on some good Beattles, or for you hillbilies some Johnny Cash. Not much good comes from any talk radio except to incite the masses. Hate is easy. Common sense, and logic take more than a 5 second sound byte. Research the information that you hear, and make sure it's the truth, not just someones interpretation of it. Someone mentioned FDR. He said "All you have to fear is fear itself. He knew that fear can blind good judgement, and common sense. Who ever that was, they were right. We could use him now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken

ORIGLS6
08-16-2006, 06:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think a good place to start would be to shut off Rush, or moveon.org, and put on some good Beattles, or for you hillbilies some Johnny Cash. Not much good comes from any talk radio except to incite the masses. Hate is easy. Common sense, and logic take more than a 5 second sound byte. Research the information that you hear, and make sure it's the truth, not just someones interpretation of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

My Dad used to get all riled up over what he heard on the news, and my wife STILL does.
For years I refused to watch or listen to it because my opinion was, it was all sensationalism designed to increase their ratings vs. their competition. Somewhere buried in all their ramblings are traces of truth, only as CYA.
When my Dad jumped on the soapbox I offered him this small bit of advice, "The TV has an On/Off switch. Exercise your options".
Even Will Rogers didn't get it exactly right.

Chevy454
08-16-2006, 07:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
For years I refused to watch or listen to it because my opinion was, it was all sensationalism designed to increase their ratings vs. their competition. Somewhere buried in all their ramblings are traces of truth, only as CYA.

[/ QUOTE ]Well put Mr. C! The way I see it, the jokers doing the news over at Comedy Central get as much right as do the "professional" news folks!! And that is SCARY!!!

Ngtflyr
08-18-2006, 12:38 AM
The Jihad

Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in Canada and the United States, especially in the minority race.

Allah or Jesus?

By: Rick Mathes founder of Mission Gate Prison Ministries in Chesterfield, Missouri,

Last month, I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their belief systems.

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with video. After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked:

"Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?"
There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"

I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to Heaven. Is that correct?"

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, "Yes."

I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to Heaven. The Imam was speechless.

I continued, "I also have problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants you to be with me?"

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the 'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.

I think everyone in the US and Canada should be required to read this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized.

Donutblue
08-18-2006, 11:24 PM
check out snopes.com on this one -- a little different version of actually what transpired and who it was said to.

ohhawk
08-19-2006, 01:24 AM
Not to make humor out of serious subject matter but....

427TJ
08-19-2006, 02:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
check out snopes.com on this one -- a little different version of actually what transpired and who it was said to.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

Keith Tedford
08-19-2006, 03:17 AM
Not is the Muslim religion the fastest growing, they are pushing for their own Sharia law here in Ontario. Someone had better give their heads a shake for even remotely considering this idea. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
With three of our family in the Canadian forces, we are more aware than most regarding what is going on outside our borders. Our lads have been in Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan and have seen how the rest of the world lives. It is a different world for sure.

firstgenaddict
08-19-2006, 03:33 AM
Politically correct till the Muslims kill them as well... then it's too late!!!

JoeG
08-19-2006, 05:40 AM
At least you fellas up north have a National Language ---The Politicians are dragging their butts down here to make English the National Language...I go into some areas of Brooklyn and can't read the store signs since they're in some arabic or slovic language or some other language of the month with no English translation..............

firstgenaddict
08-19-2006, 05:52 AM
As long as we keep being so politically correct, not wanting to offend anyone... there is a reason why people immigrate to the US.
What is it?
They come here leaving their own country behind for a variety of reasons, if they come on their own free will, then why would they want things to be done like it was in their former country?
What would be different about America? It will turn into the same crap that they left.
Then they are gonna do what... move on to the next host?

MosportGreen66
08-20-2006, 04:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
As long as we keep being so politically correct, not wanting to offend anyone... there is a reason why people immigrate to the US.
What is it?
They come here leaving their own country behind for a variety of reasons, if they come on their own free will, then why would they want things to be done like it was in their former country?
What would be different about America? It will turn into the same crap that they left.
Then they are gonna do what... move on to the next host?

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a rather complex question you want answered. I can offer you a certain simple answer with many varying avenues however.

American Exceptionalism. (and Jealousy)

Americans have been governed by a free body will of the Constitution and Bill of Rights and when we see a change needed, we amend for the purpose of increasing the quality of life. One of the many reasons for the current spike in immigration is the fact that numerous countries do not share these uniquely "American" traits with their people. Liberties and freedoms that we often take for granted such as freedom of speech, are not tolerated in these other countries.

I do not want to offend anyone here but for example Mexico. In the wealthiest cities and towns in Mexico, the highest paid worker might be making $100 a week. The same worker in the United States could be making $400-500 a week. A fair assumption can be drawn that freedom and money drive immigration. But while this worker is pleagued by long work week hours and terrible working conditions, because he is living and working in the US he feels a common bond among other workers. He now wants to assimilate and amalgamate into culture. Little does he know, his attempts to escape the dooms of marginal society will fail, because he cannot success cross the boarder-land.

But at the same rate, The United States fuels its economy off of the immigrant. How people do you know, would work for $5-$10 an hour to fulfill the challenges of life (rent, car payments, gas money, food money, clothing, insurances, doctor visits) not many I'm sure. So this new wave of worker is willing to bust his case in order to keep the American company owner happy. If the United States did not a huge population of this worker then close to 100% of all consumer goods would be outsourced for production. Then people within the United States would be out of jobs, the economy would plummet and (for example) the GDP would look like ground zero. So while some of the immigration issues we're facing today are intensified because of large masses of immigration, when immigration was less sevre, our liberities were not challenged like they are today.

There are so many ways to tackle this question; this is just a taste of one direction.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

-Dan

rare1
08-20-2006, 06:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For years I refused to watch or listen to it because my opinion was, it was all sensationalism designed to increase their ratings vs. their competition. Somewhere buried in all their ramblings are traces of truth, only as CYA.

[/ QUOTE ]Well put Mr. C! The way I see it, the jokers doing the news over at Comedy Central get as much right as do the "professional" news folks!! And that is SCARY!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gifSo So True............

Keith Tedford
08-21-2006, 10:23 PM
We now have two members of the Canadian parliament calling for us to take Hezbollah off the terrorist list. I wonder where they get their definition of terrorist? Check out www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/08/21/hezbollah-mps.html (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/08/21/hezbollah-mps.html) . If you want to see NAIVE, come to Canada. The word must have been invented just for Canada.
Our son has had his buddies killed and wounded by a suicide bomber and was involved with cleaning up the mess. Not a pretty sight that Peggy Nash could handle. He's seen an Afghan woman beaten badly just for acknowledging a friendly "Good morning." to her husband and her by troops on patrol in Kabul. Perhaps our two good MPs should actually go and live the life and walk the walk and find out what it is like to actually live in one of these countries under their laws. Hezbollah will put on the most wonderful show for them and they eat it up. Let them cross Hezbollah and see what happens. Hezbollah is very well financed by Iran and the like. A lot of charity money has even been funnelled out of our own countries. The light bulb had better come on for a better idea soon.