1971 JUDGE CONVERTIBLE,1 OF 17

[mr396]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GTO-JUDGE...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GTO-JUDGE-CONVERTIBLE-1971-1-OF-17-1-OF-7-DOCUMENTED_W0QQitemZ220016318438QQihZ012QQcategory Z7244QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[njsteve]

I love when people threaten to take it to "Scottsdale in January" if no one meets his reserve here. I guess he doesn't know Barrett Jackson too well if he thinks "the reserve will be higher there to cover the 8%". Barrett Jackson is No Reserve on everything.

Nice car either way, but it shouldn't have trim rings on the honeycomb wheels in 71.

[Les Quam]

If he doesn't consign it at no reserve to BJ relatively soon there will be few if any slots left for the car unless he knows one of the insiders there. IMHO it's a crapshoot whether it brings 300K at BJ even if is a Teimann restored car.

[Johnny Horsepower]

Love the car, but would like him to state "original matching #s drivetrain" and sign a document to that effect.

[csx289]

Does anybody else have any objections to the trim tag? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[resto4u]

Yeah colin, maybe fishy ????????? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[bashton]

I am familiar with this car, assuming it is the same one; (which it must be, since only 17 71 Judge Converts were ever built!) A friend of mine commissioned Scott Tiemann to restore it years ago. At the time of purchase, it was a nice solid car that had been featured in several magazines and a nice driver. The gentleman wanted the best of the best and was willing to pay Scott whatever it took to make it such. I believe he purchased the car out of Florida.

After restoration, the car made several show appearances including the Detroit Autorama, Meadowbrook Concours, GTOAA and POCI National Conventions where it pretty much won everything it could.

After showing the car, he drove it very sparingly in the Detroit area and eventually became bored with it and then sold it along with another 70 Judge Hardtop.

I have pictures of this car that I took at Detroit Autorama and Meadowbrook from back then.

[Draginwagon]

I know the Owner of this car and the authenticity of it as well. His reputation is excelent as well.
If anyone is truly interested in seeing this Judge Convertible in Person, it will be displayed at the Fairfield County Concours D'Elegance
in Fairfield, CT
This Sunday 9/24/2006 .
Also at this show (weather permitting) will be My "N" Code 429 Torino GT, a Very special 68 Dodge Charger Dealer Promo car, 67 Belvedere GTX Hemi, and some other peoples rides as well. Last year David Letterman had his Ferrari there. My Draginwagon was displayed and also the FORD "King Cobra" Torino. Hemi head car. The Orange one.
This year (NO RAIN Please) this GTO will be there.

[rusted goat]

It's up again as
item# 170031570492
$7000 buy it now
nice discount

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice car either way, but it shouldn't have trim rings on the honeycomb wheels in 71.


[/ QUOTE ]

I looked at a black 1971 Judge last week and it had the same honeycomb wheels with the small trim rings just like the one on ebay. I can't believe that both these cars would be wrong.

Legendary Motor Cars has a 1971 Judge Convertible on their website with the same wheels with trim rings.

Rick H.

[rusted goat]

I know on The Judge with ralley II's weren't suppose to have the trim rings on. But the honeycombs I don't recall seeing one without a trim ring. At least in photos of restored Judges. What does that area of the rim look like without them

[njsteve]

Can't really tell if the wheels you're talking about are 14"s or not but the 15"s didn't come with a trim ring until 1973 because Pontiac didnt make a trim ring for it til then. I have heard that 14" honeycombs did come with the trim rings, though, in the earlier years. Maybe it was a manufacturing problem, who knows? In 1973 you could get the 15" trim rings at the parts counter, which everybody did, and then installed them on all the pre-73 15" wheels just because they looked nice with them. This is what the 15" wheels look like without rings.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b216/nk15268/honeycombd.jpg

[njsteve]

I just enlarged the auction photo and those are 14" honeycombs, so the trim ring is most likely correct for that year and size.

[Draginwagon]

I had a 72 Goat, One of the Wagons done for Factory Reps,(Long Story) and it had Trim rings on the Honeycombs. So, I'm not sure if 71 should or shouldn't but I would put faith in anything "Legendary" does, so maybe they are right.
I know the Owner of the Judge Ragtop and he wouldn't have them if they were not supposed to be there. I'll ask him when I see him.
Either way, it would look good in my garage, just too many toys now, and not enough space. I am thinning out the crowd.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a 72 Goat, One of the Wagons done for Factory Reps,(Long Story) .....

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember seeing one of those 2 cars back in the early eighties (gold color IIRC). I loved the look of it and put it on "The List". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Draginwagon]

Mine was Factory Sundance Orange, Tan Seats, 3 seater. 455H.O. and Factory A/C. Those reps knew how to live. It now lives in Maui Hawaii.
There is a photo on my website http://www.kuhnsklassics.com on the Past Klassics Page.

[Judge Man]

Your old Sundance orange wagon was built by Dan Jensen back in the early 80's. It was a 350 car originally. I know the car well. The sport wheel, tach and gauges, 455 H.O., endura front end, honeycomb wheels etc. were all added to the car. In fact the hood and fenders were NOS. The car even had real Ram Air pans on it until one of the previous owners (in Indiana possibly?) yanked it before selling the car. Very cool car but the rep story is just that. A story.

[ QUOTE ]
Mine was Factory Sundance Orange, Tan Seats, 3 seater. 455H.O. and Factory A/C. Those reps knew how to live. It now lives in Maui Hawaii.
There is a photo on my website http://www.kuhnsklassics.com on the Past Klassics Page.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Stefano]

PHS docs should show how the car was equipped as new?

[1970Bluel78]

Wasn't there also a supposed 442 wagon ???

[DaJudge]

GTO 14" Honeycombs came with trim rings with Judge option or not. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Draginwagon]

The wagon is Now in Maui Hawaii, livin the good life. Doc's show it was a 350 from the factory but sold to PMDF, not a dealer.
Explain to me why Dan Jensen would do that to a Le Mans wagon in the 80's, they were worth nothing then. I would think he and Scott would have bigger fish to fry.
Either way it was a cool car to own, and the gentleman who owns it now is happy.
I was GM dealer in the 70's, Pontiac. Our Factory rep had a Blue Wagon ala GTO style. It also was cool.
Well, This thread is about the Judge Ragtop, it took "Best Open Muscle Car" at the Fairfield County Concours this past Sunday in Westport CT.
My 70 Torino GT 429, Took "Best Closed Muscle Car." It was a nice show.

[Draginwagon]

Oh, by the way,
The GTO Wagon, has Ram Air Pans. No one yanked them. Full Ram Air setup.
Ran like a Bear.
Still makes No Sense to me why anyone, and especially someone Like Dan Jensen would do that to a wagon.
But then again, If you are going to own a car like that who would you want it built by???? Dan and Scott or some Yahoo.
I'll take Dan and Scott.
I owned it, Drove it, and Sold it. It was a Way Fun Car.
Wish I could have fit in the 3rd seat.
at least My Kids enjoyed that.
"Burn Rubber Dad!" ----Yessir.

[Draginwagon]

This 1971 "Judge" is available, I can put any truly interested parties in touch with the owner.

[Draginwagon]

FYI,
This car took, Best Open American Muscle Car at the Fairfield County Concours, also it is Slated to go over the Block at Russo and Steele in January, Scottsdale AZ.
I am sure it will sell there.
If anyone is truly interested I can put you in touch with the Owner.

[Johnny Horsepower]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't there also a supposed 442 wagon ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Back in the 80's when i had my 71 LeMans sport conv, I needed a quarter panel and hooked up with the then president of I believe POCI? May have been another Pontiac club. I think his name was Dave Doren?? anyway he hooked me up with NOS GM quarters from Butler classic auto for a hardtop that i had modified for my convertible. But the thing I really remember was going back to a warehouse in Skokie after i met him at a Pontiac show and seeing some of his iron. He had relationships with people at pontiac but i was not as in tune back then (20) so i can't remember all the details.
THIS i do remember. Among his stuff, he had two very diferent cars there.
1 was a black 85 trans am with a 5 speed .......... and a leftover brand new 73 SD455 complete with emission stickers shoe horned in that sucker and hooked up to the five speed like it was done at the factory. He told me of some ridiculous highway performance in top speed. Wow I can only imagine the performance of that motor in a light, better handling and better (ie more gears!) geared car.

2. Was a car that he said had belonged to either the head or one of the top honchos for Pontiac. I believe the car was for his wife.
A complete factory 442 station wagon!!!!!!!! Badges, motor and design cues strait from the 442 including the hood. Very cool.

Anyway, just a something i will never forget.

John

[olredalert]

John,,, Used to see that Trans-Am at shows around the Chicago area on occasion when we lived in Hinsdale in the 80s........Bill S

[Draginwagon]

OK,
as a friend of the Owner of this particular car, will all the Naysayers Please look in the Current Issue of "Hemmings Muscle Machines" Magazine, There you will find an article on this cars trip across the Auction Block at Russo and Steele in Scottsdale. YES, it did go to Arizona, and as the Seller would not lift the Reserve and the potential buyer would not come up with the extra, It will Be Featured at The "SILVER" Auction in Arizona this month.
Yes, The Car is Real, Yes it is Correct, Yes it is Documented, and if interested I can put you in touch with the Owner. Be prepared to spend North of $350,000.-
Is it worth it? To the Right person it will be.
They all are.
Just wanted to put a Cap on the discussion here.
The final Chapter is yet to be written, but in this months "Hemmings Muscle Machines" you can Catch up on this car.
My Toys are at http://www.kuhnsklassics.com
By the way, on my home page you will see the First Ever 1:18th Scale Model of an AMC Rebel Machine.
Our Car was the Model for the Model.
it is being made by Yat Ming. Road Signature Series.
F.Y.I. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Dog427435]

Wasn't there also a supposed 442 wagon ???

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t114/dog427435/car007.jpg

[olredalert]

------Unless there are two of them that color, I saw that wagon in Las Vegas back in about 1993/4 at auction. It was as nice then as it appears to be now in the pics. I would be interested in it if there is any more info forthcoming........Bill S

[Dog427435]

That shot was taken in '90 at the auction in Atlantic City - back when it was at the convention center on the boardwalk.

[olredalert]

------It might have belonged to a guy named Peter Sid---something from California (I think). They were saying he was in some financial difficulty and was getting off a number of nice cars. The bank may even have owned them by Las Vegas auction now that I think about it.......Bill S

[Draginwagon]

Current Photos of 71 Judge in Current Issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines taken by Craig Fitzgerald, associate editor Hemmings Publications. This during thier 2007 trip to Scottsdale.
The Gentleman in the English Cap with the Auction handlers trying to get him to drop the reserve is the owner of the 71 Judge.
As mentioned in the article, he has a number of unique cars in his stable. The Orange Hemi Head FORD King Cobra, built to compete with the Superbirds and such. Also he has a Yellow Hemi Superbird.
And Many more. All documented to the hilt.
As for the 71 Judge Ragtop,It stayed in Arizona awaiting the upcoming
"Silver" Auction. We'll see what happens.
http://www.kuhnsklassics.com
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Draginwagon]

What shot are you talking about??????????????

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't there also a supposed 442 wagon ???

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.texas442.com/wagon/wgn-71ho.html

several, according to this site. WOW !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

\

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't there also a supposed 442 wagon ???

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.texas442.com/wagon/wgn-71ho.html

several, according to this site. WOW !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

\

[/ QUOTE ]

dont believe everything you read about those wagons..i never saw one documented

[Draginwagon]

The Only Olds wagon I saw, and it was documented was the INDY 500 Medical Wagon, it was at the Indianapolis Concours next to our Rebel Machine.
It had all the 442 Goodies, but was a regular Vista Cruiser. Cool just the same.
I have the 70 Chevy Townsman Wagon, Factory LS-5, Plain Jane radio delete. I have the original buildsheet.
http://kuhnsklassics.freeservers.com/photo3_1.html
ie: the Dragin Wagon
with regards to my 72 Goat wagon,
The 72 GTO Wagon was sold many years ago and is living the good life in Maui Hawaii. I handled all the shipping arrangements as well.
It has it's buildsheet as well. It was a Sundance Orange 350 with the Endura Nose, it was shipped from Framingham Mass to PMD, in Michigan. PMD listed as the owner/purchaser.
No Dealer. The 455HO that was in it when I had it and still in it was a correct date coded motor with a Factory replacement block number. When it was converted or what is anyones guess.
If in Maui, you might see it cruisin the island......

[ASTROJET]

I'm pretty sure Dan Jensen could fill in the Blanks.