Mecum Auction COPOs everywhere

[JChlupsa]

Seems like quite a few COPO Cars being put on the block. Chevelle/Camaro and a few L78 Camaros as well as a L89 Camaro and a 68 L89 Chevelle!!!! Including this Red LS6
http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_detail.html?LOT_ID=CH1006-41844


http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/consign_list.html?AUCTION_ID=CH1006

[rsatz28]

This baby blue 69 Z-28 was on Ebay not too long ago.

http://www.mecumauction.com/auctions/lot_images/CH1006-41987at.jpg

[69LM1]

1 Copo with ed c docs and 1 gm canada. I wonder if anything else, inc the L78 cars have and docs? One of the others says "copo engine" which makes you wonder?

[Don_Lightfoot]

Man, Mecum sure do get the Muscle out to their auctions. Those Pontiac Super Duty cars sure got my attention.

Still a lot of "flipping" going on as some of those machines have changed hands earlier this year. I would sure like to see more people just enjoying them http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[jasonL78]

I want to ask a question without causing no hard feelings. So here it goes. What do all you baby boomers think will happen to the hobbie in 10 years or so. I am 31 and in 10 years I can't see myself buying a 100+k muscle car. I love the hobbie but will the demand still be around. I think that is why there is so much flipping going on. People are starting to unload there investments.

Jason

[Bavss70]

Good comment Jason. Some of us are waiting on the sideline for the credit line interest going thru the roof and people dumping their cars.
John.

[hvychev]

Jason, I am 28 years old and already did own a supercar. I personally believe that it will be more like 20 years before we see a possible "decline" in interest in these cars. I personally do not know a single person (outside of this website) near or even close to my age group that would spend $100K on any old car. I personally wouldn't do it myself. That is why I say I will never own a supercar again (at least in the next 20 years that is! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

I think that the guys my age that like muscle cars would rather have a cool AFFORDABLE Chevelle, Camaro, or Nova. In my experience they are not that interested in #'s, broach marks, whether it has spiral shocks, or the "correct" chalk marks on the firewall. I believe that they are more concerned with a good looking great running American Muscle Car.

Most of you guys forget that most of these cars are "niche" vehicles and are mostly out of reach or just don't appeal to the masses. If they did I guess that there would have been more built. To prove this look at the membership of this website for the purpose of general interest at almost 3800 members as compared to LS1tech.com at almost 71,000!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE these cars. They are definitely an acquired taste. That is why I am here as well as everyone else I assume. The moments that I had in my supercar will never be duplicated or forgotten as long as I have breath in my lungs. If everyone could be so fortunate.....

[AutoInsane]

36 year old self professed car nut here. Most of my friends would not know a 69 Chevelle from a Camaro! While I do love the old muscle and happen to have a restored 74 Jeep CJ5 in the garage I would rather pay 6 figures for an exotic than a muscle car. 20 years sounds about right for the muscle car craze. Sad, how it has been somewhat transformed from a true collector car lovers hobby to being motivated by profits and values. (Just for the record...I am all for everyone doing well and striking gold in their garage!!)

(Very sorry for aiding and abetting the hijacking of this thread!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif)

[3macs1]

No one really knows what the future will bring and hopefully there will be enough interest with today's youth to keep the supercars and muscle cars running forever.
I do have to admit however after reading the question that was asked on this chevelle steering box posted on ebay I am worried.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-69-70-...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/68-69-70-71-CHEVELLE-CAMARO-GTO-442-QUICK-STEERING-BOX_W0QQitemZ270018592697QQihZ017QQcategoryZ34200Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[SBR]

IMHO that the very best cars of their kind will always bring huge dollars. Look at the pre war classics while overall interest has decreased the very best of the breed still commands huge dollars, my guess is that the same will hold true for Musclecars and Corvettes.

[king_midas]

No man, you're wrong... There are waaay too many musclecars available to sustain current prices. The difference between the musclecars and the pre-wars is that only the very precious pre-wars survived. They either became cans, ammunition, or are/were hotrods. There are no others left. So, the market is governed by limited supply, and the price moves with inflation. Also notice that very few pre-wars are driven, and guess why-- Because the generation of enthusiasts that saw those cars as "the good 'ol days" is slowly vanishing.

The musclecar hobby is eating itself, and it's because young people aren't interested-- Today's cars do everything so much better. As stated earlier, I don't know anyone else in my age group that cares about old cars, especially as life gets more complex. Combine this with stupid prices (some clown on CraigsList wants $65K for a '67 Chevelle SS 396/325; I was just killing time with a search...) for a car that is virtually un-driveable and out-performed by NA 4-cylinders. And well, you know how that goes...

I drove a new GTI this weekend, and at less than $25K, you'd need to be made of money to pass something like that up for a '66 GTO, etc... The thing is a rocket, and oh so much fun to drive. And, that's just one car from one manufacturer-- There are lots of great offerings out there.

I also am all for someone striking gold in the garage, and I also love the stuff that I grew up bashing my knuckles on. But a bunch of guys trading money with each other because the kids are in college and the equity line isn't tapped out yet has driven the market into an area where the kids today have been forced elsewhere. Seeing the cars flip is because the guy that buys that 1st gen Z/28 isn't 25; he drives it once, the wife won't even get in it. He figures out that it's miserable to drive compared to the Infiniti, and dumps it at the end of the summer. I know because I lived it. Look, it's like this-- You can go to a cowboy bar and ride the mechanical bull for cheap-- Who wants to spend $50K - $whatever for the the equivalent?

[PPPJJJFFF]

Interesting posts to say the least. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Patrick

[69LM1]

OK,
But other then the few and far with rich daddy's, teenagers have NEVER been able to afford the latest muscle/sports cars.

We all (most of us) drooled over the cars we could never attain as teenagers. Mine was the 1980 Z-28. Worked and worked all summer (1982) and saved up a whopping $400.00. Could not even find a base 77-80 camaro anywhere near that.

Saw an ad in the paper for a camaro for 450.00, went to look at it with my dad and uncle. It was a puke green 69, 3 speed manual, 307 car. Guy went down to 425.00, Uncle lent me 25$ and away I went. That started a love affair with the first gens, that will probably last my whole life.

Point is, kids have been given more these days, but they still mostly cannot afford the latest and greatest, most popular cars. They drool over them, and one day, when they are successful enough, if they stay "car guys", will probably buy what they could not afford as teenagers.

[quick-bowtie]

Good cars (known and well documented) will always demand good money. I dont think you will see Yenko's, COPO's, LS6's, L78's or anything else of the same go down in price our at least in my life time. Im 30 years old so Im in the younger crowd and I can say Ive got friends my age that own rare good cars and dont bat an eye at spending 50k for a fun old car. 50k really isnt alot of money these days when you think about it and the up side is if you keep the car in good condition you can pretty much drive it for free by selling it for the same money a couple years down the road. Plenty of people in our age group have money and like the neat toys or stuff that know one else has.

[Chevy454]

I agree with Quick about the "good cars"...and I'm 30 myself, and see the majority of the newer refined cars simply as *quick transportation*...they've completely engineered the soul out of the majority of cars these days.

midas: you're comparing a GTI with a '66 GTO? That GTI couldn't hold the jock of a GTO in the personality department...cars shouldn't be all about miles per gallon, or hands off reliability, or dead quiet plastic interiors...if they are, then you're not talking about a car, you're talking about transportation. Real cars are about a "feeling", a feeling that very, very few cars made within the last 25 years are gonna give you...granted, there are exceptions to every rule, and this is just a brief opinion! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Canucklehead]

With all the drivers helping gizmos in new cars it won't be long that new drivers won't be able to drive an "old" car!

[quick-bowtie]

New cars are fun to drive and handle great but I rather be in an Old Camaro going 30mph and punching it and having the rear end slide sideway because your smoking the tires so bad "vs" a new car were you would get hook up and go. To me there is way more of a thrill in an old car and definately the feel of RAW Power which no new car can come close to giving.

[hvychev]

I totally agree with the $50K car comments. Affordable muscle cars will always be in demand. The thing that I find hard to imagine is that there will be groups fighting to pay $300k-$1Mill for cars like these rare Mopars, ZL1's, etc. I also find it difficult to imagine people paying $100K for more "common" cars like 69 Z28's and LS6 Chevelles in the distant future.

The people that want love and be willing to pay for these cars will be the people that say "my dad or uncle used to have one of these" and they had some good memories in them. Think about how many guys in there 30's want a pre war classic like a Cord or Auburn. Some of those may be worth 1 million to a 65 year old guy but to someone like me I would have a hard time paying $30K for one.

[68l30]

I was dragged into this debate,old vs.new,about a month ago at a local cruise in......It was a heated discussion.I finally said what the hell do you drive anyway? It turned out to be a basic econ shoebox...He didn't even have a dog in the race.......My point is,if you have to explain an old car...They will never understand it! You have to live it & feel it....They still may never get it....Maybe we are the idiots... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


Steve http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe we are the idiots...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, we are the guys who are having a great time with our old musclecars. That clown with the econo-box is just another one of those wanna-be loud-mouths so common at car shows, races, cruise-ins, auto parts stores, and especially on the Internet. Don't waste your breath on them--it's just like pi$$ing into the wind.

[68l30]

Sorry my lame attempt at sarcasim...LOL....I just get sick and tired of BMW this and that along with every other modern supercar..... not for me...Go preach to someone who cares.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Steve http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[king_midas]

chevy454:

Everyone is entitled to opinions, and I think what you're talking about-- "soul" should not be substituted for drum-brake, rubber-band feel, "hold on to the reins tight" driving feel. Once again, just my opinion.

When I was a kid with a job and not much else to worry about (1985 - 1990), these same cars that are trading for large coin were around and were affordable, albeit many were not in great shape. My '80 Z (which I paid $1700 for in 1987; needed paint) was a great example-- A fun car that had every available option, but the last true old car I owned. I went to college, and sold the Z.

I hate to say it, but the bottom line is that, in reality, the cars that are trading for inflated prices were not the most sophisticated cars available then... See this link to know what I mean:

http://www.oldsmobility.com/roadtestmag_june67.htm

Welcome the entrance of the Resto-Mod craze. For originals, the brakes/suspension were less-than-adequate, weight balance way off, bad steering, uncomfortable seats, no A/C, etc, etc... But lots of fun in a straight line, and really not as fast as the rose-colored glasses say. What's the point of this, you may ask? Well, it's that new cars do all of the things old cars don't do well very well, so how do you justify paying $60K for early Chevy muscle (without even thinking about the cloning aspect)? I can't. A few years ago I wanted a '69 Z so bad that I could taste it, and one ride in an expensive rattle-trap changed my mind for me-- Made me think about how good of a car my '86 Mustang GT was (God rest its soul)...

The statement that I made is along those lines. I love the old stuff, but they are waaaay overpriced for what is there, causing major lack of interest in the non-blue hair consumer segment. And the person that can afford the price of admission and garaging forgets that these cars are sub-par to drive until he/she gets in one, and then it's all over-- They come back around for sale with only a few additional clicks on the odo because in reality, they're unpleasant to drive. And as complicated as life is these days, who has time to set lash, or troubleshoot a Holley on a regular basis? All of this is probably why most of the people that I know could care less about a 35 year old car. I don't know... I'm just calling it like I see it.

So, when are the prices going down so I can get that '69 Z?

[Jeff H]

The limited production, high performance cars will always hold their value at the top of the heap. But it still comes down to personal preference that motivates a lot of people to buy what they want. And in today's economy there are plenty of people who are capable of buying what they want regardless of the cost. As for new vs old, I like em all and I keep going back and forth. The 4th gen Camaros/Firebirds offer a ton of performance and handling/braking for an affordable cost. The older cars give you that feeling of raw power. The pro-touring cars give you the combination of old looks with modern performance. I'll take 1 of each! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
A few years ago I wanted a '69 Z so bad that I could taste it, and one ride in an expensive rattle-trap changed my mind for me

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm. Come take a ride in mine. I'll give you a $10 bill everytime you hear a rattle out of my car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[ QUOTE ]
And as complicated as life is these days, who has time to set lash, or troubleshoot a Holley on a regular basis? All of this is probably why most of the people that I know could care less about a 35 year old car. I don't know... I'm just calling it like I see it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like your better off then. I think any real car guy doesn't mind this and most would say it is therapy for them. I know it is for me.

[king_midas]

Darren,

I'll take you up on your offer, but...

1. It must have chambered exhaust and 4:10's.
2. I get to drive.

* Edit: I don't mind setting lash, but I'm in the miniscule minority.

[king_midas]

... Whoops, I meant 4.10:1's...

[PPPJJJFFF]

1964 through 1971 was the era for Musclecars. All the major domestic makers were in on the game and some incredible machines were built over those 8 years. Barret-Jackson, Mecum and others show how much interest there is in these cars today. Go to Barnes and Noble and look at the magazine rack. Musclecar magazines everywhere.

The "Supercars" of that era will be popular for a long, long time. Why? Because the boomers grew up with them, they weren't built in large quantities and their cooler than cool. When I drive the Hemi-Challenger through town, traffic stops. Shake, rattle and roll and all! Nothing else compares.

Patrick

[Zedder]

I think that there is a very slight market adjustment happening right now and it has more to do with affordability and what someone is comfortable driving value-wise than anything else. I've been working on a number of potential purchases over the past few weeks and every person is selling for the same reason..."the car is just worth too much now for me to feel comfortable driving it around". I've been to a bunch of cruise nights this summer and there have been some neat cars out there, but where are all the COPO's, LS6's, and other higher dollar cars that I used to see regularly??? All tucked away in their garages I'm afraid. For me, $75K or so is my comfort zone for a muscle car that I will drive and it is getting tough to find anything really neat at that price any longer. I believe that many others feel the same way as my experience has been that the higher production number hi-po cars above $75K take a lot longer to sell these days (LS6, L78, Z-28 etc.).

[DarrenX33]

Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have 2 beaters listed in your sig! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Now that's just not nice - at least his 'beaters' actually run!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[DarrenX33]

I want more rust! When is the last time you heard someone say that? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nice one Mark.. The reason I am looking for more of a beater these days...

[/ QUOTE ]

But you have 2 beaters listed in your sig! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Darren's getting into the "Spoiled Brat" zone http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[DarrenX33]

Hey listen its not "Spoiled Brat"!

It is "over extended". LOL!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JChlupsa]

[ QUOTE ]
I want more rust! When is the last time you heard someone say that? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


how much more, got an address i can send it to http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[RamAirDave]

I'm in the younger demographic, younger than most involved in this hobby of musclecars. Everyone I know in the same group likes these cars, but not interested in purchasing one or even learning a whole lot about them. This includes the concept of #s matching or low production figures. When I discuss the market of these cars, they shake their heads in disbelief. "That's crazy" is a common description.

If they were interested in the purchase of one of these cars, I would feel safe to say that they wouldnt be interested in a 6-figure perfect resto car, and surely wouldnt have it only to let it set in the garage which is where many of these cars end up.

dave

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Now that's just not nice - at least his 'beaters' actually run!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey now, I just logged 100 miles on my 1970 L78 beater on Sunday going to a car show. Looks like I pulled down 12.5 mpg too! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Poor car didn't like getting stuck in traffic on the way home though. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[DarrenX33]

That's still 50%. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the younger demographic, younger than most involved in this hobby of musclecars. Everyone I know in the same group likes these cars, but not interested in purchasing one or even learning a whole lot about them. This includes the concept of #s matching or low production figures. When I discuss the market of these cars, they shake their heads in disbelief. "That's crazy" is a common description.

If they were interested in the purchase of one of these cars, I would feel safe to say that they wouldnt be interested in a 6-figure perfect resto car, and surely wouldnt have it only to let it set in the garage which is where many of these cars end up.

dave

[/ QUOTE ]

The guys (28-35 years old) that I am friends with also love muscle cars and we all have multiple cars. Most of us have had them for a while, some since high school. The prices have gotten out of reach for all but the most fortunate, but then again that is what adds to the story of the cars, everyone remembers when the cars were around for cheap $$$.
Or we knew someone who drove one...etc.
Some of the more obscure or lesser known muscle cars will probably be the losers in all of this... the also rans.
The popular cars, the documented car, and the original cars will always have a following.

Think about it... the prewar cars with Mystique are the ones that still bring the big $$$...
It will be the same thing for the muscle cars, the ones that have Mystique or a large following those will be the ones that that will be collected in the future.

[Baldy]

I am71 years old and forteanite to own a1969 Yenko Camaro. No amount of money will buy this car. It is my living will to go to my son, and from him to my grand dauther. So I know that it will be in the familey for quite some time. So you see not all of us are in to this for the money. We also have 4 more 69 camaros, not for sale.

[PPPJJJFFF]

I think the last 2 posters get it!

Patrick

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
I am71 years old and forteanite to own a1969 Yenko Camaro. No amount of money will buy this car. It is my living will to go to my son, and from him to my grand dauther. So I know that it will be in the familey for quite some time. So you see not all of us are in to this for the money. We also have 4 more 69 camaros, not for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No amount of money will buy this car. It is my living will to go to my son, ................. So I know that it will be in the familey for quite some time. So you see not all of us are in to this for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

X 10!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[ANDY M]

I make no bones about my car being a beater. In the 12 years that I've had the car, I've put about $15k into it to keep it that way. I have also put about 8000 miles on it.
I am pretty sure that it will be the least detailed car on display at the SCR. It is also in my will to my step-son.
To each his own.
There are tons of late 2nd and early 3rd gen Camaros that can be had for cheap $.
As they say: "Don't crush 'em, restore 'em". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Baldy]

Sorry about the spell'ing on my post.Should have used spell-check. Old fingers sometimes don't do what the brain tells them to do.

[AutoInsane]

It's true. You get it or you don't. The fact that the old cars drive like old cars is the mystique to owning one!!

I go for a spin in my restored 74 CJ5 w the 304-V8 and I am smiling the entire time!! It is a blast to drive!! Yes the suspension is stiff, yes the steering wheel is big and not balls on acurate, yes it has a nice rumble to it, no it has no a/c, no there are no bells whistles or gizmos.... and that is why it is an awosome vehicle to drive!!!!! I will never sell it!! My future son or daughter will own this Jeep!!

Now, that being said, do I think a 69 Zl-1 should cost a million. Hell no. You cannot compare a Camaro to a Dusenberg or a Bugatti. Nope, no way. These were hand built limited production (not just engine but body or marque for that matter) borderline works of art.

Hey, I think the Zl-1 or a COPO or a Yenko is an awsome thing!! Jaw drops when I see on in person, goosebumps when I hear a wide open throtle pass!! But to justify the ultra high values?? I am afraid it is similar to when speculation ran rampant through the Ferrari market in the late 80's early 90's. A lot of speculation, a lot of money chasing the same cars creates an ersatz market. It is not sustainable.

Just my lil ole .02 worth!

King Midas.... I agree the old ones do not drive nearly as "nice" as the new ones... so what do you like about them??

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
I want more rust! When is the last time you heard someone say that? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it too late to buy your old 72 back http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DarrenX33]

I miss it. But it is in good hands. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[PPPJJJFFF]

Much of it is about "Lifestyle" and what some people can afford! Hi demand for so few quality cars. Its that simple.

If you think musclecar prices are insane. How about taking a 30 day "Exotic Hunt" for Lion in Botswana. You still have time to make a reservation for the 2007 season. It will only run you $139,150 for 30 days! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif If you can't quite spring for a lion. That's O.K. How about $58,250 for an Elephant instead. For those of you who are wondering. The average tusk weight is 60 pounds. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Maybe we should stop analyzing the market and let it be! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

And no I have no intention of shooting a lion anytime soon.

Patrick

[Salvatore]

As I get older and older and attend more car shows and cruises I see a decline in the younger crowd. While we have 4 sons, one being a mechanic and in the National Guard, NONE of them are really car guys! Not that they don't like them but not interested in owning big dollar cars. Our boy that just got back from Iraq is still working part time at Buxmont Truck Accessories. Anybody around his age 27 is buying 4WD's or very few buy Mustangs. Actually you can buy almost perfect 1998-2000 corvettes for 25,000 that will dust anyone of those cars and not even hear it running. They are not to interested in our type of cars like I have NO interest in a model A or T. That is why they fell off the earth. All those collectors are gone. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I believe the prices for the big number cars will be still high down the road, (Hemis, ZL1's etc.) They are going to be harder to sell. If you didn't grow up with the car it is hard to get REAL interested in paying 65,000 for a fairly nice Z/28. Especially when the COPO's and such are never driven anymore they will loose interest in the younger group. Those kids don't even see these cars if they don't go to the big shows. Heck, Most of the rice burners eat our cars up anyway. I will NOT allow those cars to park in my driveway and my kids know it. Our kids range from 29-21 in age and I can't see any of them paying 100,000 or even 75,000 for a car they can't or don't want to drive. So in closing most of these crazy priced cars will be buried with their baby boomer owners. So get out there and drive em if you have em! You may be the last generation to do so.http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Here's an idea - buy your boy a muscle car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I bought Benjamin the '69 Nova SS when he was just 1, now he's almost 5 and knows full well that it's his car. If this doesn't work - then I don't know what will, and Slammies prediction will come true http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/aacorp/BenjaminandSS2.jpg

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
It is my living will to go to my son, and from him to my grand dauther.

[/ QUOTE ]

How old is your grandaughter and is she single? .
Please send pics....of the Yenko! .

Just kidding of course....still love to see pics though!
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

[Salvatore]

I am praying that M is right. At least he got the kid on the right track! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif There will always be straglers here and there but for the most part......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif I am just not to sure that Benjamin or any of my kids will lay out $150,000+ on one of these Yenkos like this generation did. They are going to be like our parents who were farmers. Once the farm got turned over to us bang!!! for sale and subdivide. Nowwww we can buy a Yenko! Thanks mom and dad. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[camarojoe]

IMO, if the kids of the future aren't into the cars you are into, its your own fault for not getting them involved. I'm 31 and my brother is 27, and we were both brought up with classic chevy's all around us. My dad took us to swap meets, car shows, showed us how things worked on old cars, how to fix stuff, and how to drive one. My dad never had any Yenko's or Motion's, just your basic musclecars... but it was enough to get us into it, and to be honest, I'm now more into these "old cars" more than my dad ever was. While he doesn't eat, sleep, and breathe all things Yenko like I do, he gave me the spark that got my juices flowing for these cars, and its something that will be with me forever. When I was 15 he helped me buy a 400.00 rusty old 72 Nova, and showed me how to fix it up, from the engine to the interior, to the paintjob. That experience not only got me the coolest car in high school, but it got me hooked on the car hobby for good. This whole process was repeated a few years later with my younger brother and the 70 Chevelle he still owns to this day.

I have no kids, but if and when I do, you can bet they will get the same kind of insight, understanding, (and hopefully interest) in the cars I am into, just as I did when i was a kid. ADULTS, and especially parents are the most influential people to kids, regardless of if they'll admit it or not. I teach Kindergarten through 5th grade, and see over 750 kids each week for just 35 minutes at a time, but even at that, alot of them now know what a Camaro looks like, what a Yenko is, and how to tell a 67 from a 68. As the saying goes, "take a kid to a car show." get them involved and interested, like Marlin is doing with his young son. Trust me, they'll get hooked for life just like the rest of us.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[jasonL78]

I have my son on the right track also he is seven and loves to go to the shows and cruises with me. He loves corvetts. But as he gets older he is starting to know all the gm cars. I hope to restore a car with him too some day. I share the same opinion as SC69sam. I have friends that are into old car but very few. I started to notice it at shows and swap meets 75% of the people that are walking around looking at the cars are older than me. I kinda started this post to get everyones opinion. I will always love old cars and enjoy working on them. I would rather work on my old car than my every day driver. I hope the hobby keeps on growing and I will start saving my penny's for a Yenko nova.

Jason

[Salvatore]

Took them to the drags and car shows for years. Even took them to the Ford nationals at Maplegrove a few times. Big Foot was there. Like I said, its not that they don't like cars and that stuff it is just they would not buy the cars from my era for that kind of money. They are more into trucks and SUV's. Don't worry Joe I take my little grandaughters all over with me and their parents do bring them to the car shows I enter. Just don't know how long that lasts though. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Wait till you get some kids....easier said than done! Schonye is lucky! Hey it may skip a generation and the grand kids may get all my stuff! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif P.S. My dad was not into cars but I have oil for blood so don't always know how it will work but you are correct about exposure! Take em with you. Look at Caleb!!!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

My Dad is not into cars at all, he just sort of shakes his head at me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Justbad Joe]

Schonye is lucky! Hey it may skip a generation and the grand kids may get all my stuff! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Not if I can help it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Joe (the next in line)

[Tim Penton]

I agree with Marlin and Joe 100% My son is 2 y.o.a. He goes to school every day (approx. 7 mile one way trip) in a '68 SS 396 Chevelle with open headers. He is mad when for some reason we have to use my wife's Trailblazer. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

Open headers!! Ever give yourself a ticket? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Xplantdad]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Good one Sam! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JRSully]

The older brothers line up at my house when I was about 12-13;
68 400 firebird 4spd
66 421 tripower catalina ( given to my older brothers for free)
68 428 Mustang
70 428 Cougar

and my Dad telling me how he had to change an engine in a 40 Ford Convertible around 1954, did it in an hour using a couple of chains and the oak tree in our front yard. car ran great, loaded up 4 of his friends, drove to Nebraska from Long Island for the helluva it, oh yea, the covertible had no top, just the frame, nobody cared... That did it for me SULLY

[Hotrodpaul]

As far as great value in terms of Camaro's, you cannot go wrong with the 98-02 LS1 cars. Huge performance per dollar, good looks and mileage. The 99 model shown below ran mid thirteen's stock, presently high 11's @ 116 mph with mild mods and still knocks down 20 mpg in combined city/highway driving, and the car is worth about $8-$9K in its present condition.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Hotrodpaul86/DSCN4819.jpg

My other two Camaro's are pretty far back in terms of performance, handling, braking, and mileage. But what appeals to me are the way they make me feel. The rough idle, unburned exhaust fumes, styling, rarity, ease of working on, and so so ride and handling appeal to me because it brings me back to my youth. Driving these cars and the reaction I get brings me back to my 20's when they were commonplace and no one cared if they had the proper date coded block or transmission. All you wanted to do was go fast and look cool doing it. Now, there is a desire inside of me that wants to restore and preserve these cars so that future generations can experience the fun that these cars bring. And for that, people are willing to pay top dollar for these cars now.

Paul

[Salvatore]

Dollars to donuts most kids my kids age will take your 11 second camaro for 10,000. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Tim Penton]

Hey Sam, I know the less "traveled" paths to take! Besides I never write tickets for loud pipes. In Louisiana we have a "Loud Pipes Save Lives" program. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Somebody wake up Belair. We need a little "Willie the wimp, and his cadillac coffin", by Stevie Ray. Mine's all goin with me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
And yes Sam. It's nice to have your own in house painter. To bad he'll have to wait until I'm gone to claim to be the best. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Nice to see you post Mr. Shockly. Always good to visit with you. Hope you're doing well. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Salvatore]

You are a funny man! I like the loud pipes philosophy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[70CitrusZ]

my.02
1) Most prices are balooned way out of proportion right now.
2) The regular enthusiast people who own these cars for anything other than an investment wouldn't or couldn't pay the dollars it takes to buy them right now, those enthusiast people are mostly currently "sellers or keepers".
3) Once the "investment interest" moves on to something else, and there is a new "status symbol" for the rich, prices will drop. Right now muscle cars are the flavor of the week.
4) Any substantial increase in interest rates and the prices will start to drop out of the muscle car movement.
5) The prices of clone cars is an indication how far out of reality the prices are right now. Who pays 100k for a car you can build for 35??
6) If you need a yardstick to measure this by, just look at what happened to the hot rod market. A car that a few years ago would top a couple hundred grand now stumbles to fetch 75k. True, the good cars maintain "a value" of some kind, but there isn't the "status quo" inflation on them that there was.
7)Muscle car prices in general will go down. its just a matter of time, I give it less than 5 years for the first drop to prices with both the most expensive cars, and the lowest valued cars taking the largest hits first.
Mark.

[P.J.]

well Let me tell you a story,
I have 4 daughets and the two oldest asked to go to the first school dance a few years back.So I told them they could go if I drive them with my 70 chevelle ss l78 4 speed.
Well they alost swallowed their tongue at the thought of them arriving at the parking lot dance in this old chevelle"
However they finaly reluctanly agreed. Friday night came they got all dooled up and I got the Chevelle ready to go.
The school was only a short distance away and I arrived at the parking lot in 1st gear (m22) to make all the noise The car could muster. Drove right up to the crowd and stopped.
All the Youg 13 year olds about 200 of them. boys imedialy left their girlfriends standing on the dance floor and ran towards the fire breathing Chevelle. As the ladies got out they were deluged with popularity and the boys were amazed that their dad drove such a car.
The next dance came along and they could not wait to have me take them again.
So much for the youg not loving the muscle cars.The only thing that concerns me is the price of such cars most of them will only be able to dream about owning one.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gifPeter

[PPPJJJFFF]

Interesting predictions. However. I'll wait to see what this market looks like (especially for Hemi-E bodies, Yenkos, Copos and some of the other rare Super Cars) after the new Challenger and Camaro are back for the next "muscle Car" bonanza! That will surely bring alot more buyers into this arena! Just my prediction.

Patrick

[70CitrusZ]

Yes... I am 44yrs old and I remember the days back when I was a teenager,and I first lived, ate and slept muscle cars, my very first car was a 1965 malibu ss I bought from the original owner in 1976.. people thought I was stupid for fixing up old worn out cars, but appreciated them when I was done..
I am a muscle car guy, have been all these years, and I like to own muscle cars because I like the way they look, I like the way they feel,and I appreciate the historical significance of them.
Fortunately, I still have a muscle car purchased prior to the price hikes. Unfortunately, I would never be able to justify spending the money it would take to buy some of the other muscle cars I would have liked to own...Actually, I couldn't justify spending the money to buy the one I already have if I didn't already own it.
That is the sad part about what the prices do to the hobby. It takes the cars out of the hands of those who appreciate the cars for what they are, not for what they are worth.
Mark. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[king_midas]

Someone asked what I like about the old stuff-- Uhh, get my hands dirty a few times a month; go to the garage, smoke a few cigarettes and drink some beer, and hang out. Maybe take a drive once a month when work and responsibility don't have the golden handcuffs on me. Fun a couple of times a month should not cost me $75K, which doesn't include garaging, parts, GAS (yikes!), etc... Doesn't quite seem worth it to me...

But, in reality, it goes even further than the stupid prices and non-drivability factor... I think the kids of today simply think that old people hoarding parts and treating them like idiots have caused them (the kids) to do their own thing. And maybe even out of spite, they purposefully steer clear of all things SS and v-8. Put simply, they have the choice to buy Mustangs, Camullets, and Corvettes-- Late models are priced similarly to the hot imports... But, they don't buy those cars. They're not interested. Even futher, they're flying their own flags, and that's that.

If you guys were smart, you'd all start buying early '70's imports, like BMWs, Porsches, VWs, Datsuns and Toyotas... Those cars are cheap, fun, modern construction, and the kids are all into modifying heritage cars of what they drive and hotrod today. I said it first-- King Midas, the Oracle.

I lived and worked through the dot-com crash, and do you know what one of the major factors was regarding the dominoes tumbling? All of those businesses were inner-connected-- They sold their stuff to each other. Once the market started to fall, they went like dominoes because they lost their business network. That is a likely analogy as to what will happen with musclecars.

And yes, my father taught me how cars worked and how to take care of them. How a cluster gear works, how to set point dwell, what abuse will break a u-joint, etc... I now know more than him, and I probably know more than some of you. But, does that mean that I'd step up to the plate to buy that 7-second '69 Z that gets 10 mpg, idles like it's mad at something, no A/C, and is akin to being in a relationship with a hot chick that you cannot trust, and though she looks great, she doesn't really run or handle all that well. Maybe if she were priced under $10K and you could actually have fun with it on a budget... At present prices, it's the old man vs. the kid-- That Z will be traded between home equity borrowers until the money runs out, and the last guy stuck with it will wear a frown.

There is still hope that I can pick up that Z for under $10K....

[camaromb]

If the musclecars are not worth it to you because of cost, parts hoarders, etc. why are you on this site? There must be plenty of sites for those more interested in newer muscle. Personally I don't see the connection between overvalued "smoke and mirror financials" dot-com companies and their resulting demise and a musclecar financial collapse. The supply of vintage musclecars is not changing and their demand will remain strong for years to come. Yes with the cooling of the housing markets people will be less likely to spend discretionary income on musclecars. I would love to see a crash in musclecar values, I'd just buy more! I don't see it happening anytime soon.
Admitted car & part hoarder,
Mark

[Steve Shauger]

Another scenario may be that with the softening of the housing market, real estate investors may shift their money into muscle cars. Who knows and who cares. Mark you make a great point; why do some people who believe these cars are worthless continue to participate on a website designed for the true enthusiast. If you want to see some car fanatics, just visit the crew at this years Super Car Reunion. This is a group of diehard car guys/gals who are livin life to the fullest.

I admit getting into the market now is rather costly, but if you had been following the market over the last 5 years you could have had a rather large collection at a very reasonable cost. I bet the same people who complained about the price of cars 5 years ago are still the ones complaining today.

[Canucklehead]

It's only money, you can't take it with you!

[Ngtflyr]

I look at it this way, I have a degree in Finacial Management. I trusted the stock market up until about the year 2000. There is as much fraud going on in the stock market as there is in #'s matching documented muscle cars. If you have all your eggs in one basket you are asking for trouble. Diversification is the key, I look at muscle cars as part of my investment portfolio. Additionally, when I was a kid I was observing the peak of the horsepower wars and all I thought about was cars and sports, until a few years later when girls entered the picture. So in addition to stocks and real estate, I have some money tied up into muscle cars. I have taken hits in the stock market and will probably see my real estate values go down over the next few years. I have the cars not only because of the investment potential but because I always, since I was about 9 years old, wanted a lot of different makes and models. If I buy a car now and the market takes a hit I will be stuck with a car I really like and will enjoy driving, showing, and tinkering with it for a long time. Those that are in it for the money better have the ability to take the loss or ride out a market correction if and when it happens. If you think this market will keep going up, up and away, you might want to reconsider. I understand there is a finite number of these cars but the pool of people who owned or wanted to own these cars is definitely getting older and they or their heirs will sell what they own. The $64,000 question is how long will the market continue going up, part two is how much of a correction will we see. I looked at the real estate market the last few years as an unhealthy trend that wasn't sustainable and now we are seeing the correction. Before that it was the dot com boom / bust. At this point I'm not selling my cars but I own them all free and clear. Probably the smart move to make right now is to sell the cars and poise to pick up real estate when all those interest only balloon loans start coming due. Either that or open up another damn Starbucks. My $.02 worth.