Canadian COPO on Team Camaro/Camaros.net

[ChevyThunder]

Does anyone know anything about this COPO? Is it really worth 275K ? I have been looking for a car but would appreciate any feedback from the educated members of the forum . Here is the ad from TC . I see an earlier thread in this forum about COPO prices at Mecum being down.

http://www.camaros.net/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=12350

[Hylton]

Hi Van,

I believe it is Vin# 124379N635036. I am not into COPO's but IMO that's a lot of cake for a fathom green on puke green car.

[deuce-less]

the deluxe interior option is indeed rare and i believe that the canadian documentation is a good start. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[rich p]

If you dont mind a console automatic with a KILLER COLOR
and #'s matching with paperwork $170K FIRM
Call me at 954-899-6325 Just came in !!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[RARE Z/28]

For those who may be interested the interior colour is Dark Green deluxe! Not puke green as indicated by an earlier posting. The car is priced accordingly, show me another four speed car with deluxe interior, console and gauges, wood wheel, power steering, spoilers, am sterio with 8 track player, chambered exhaust, etc. All fully documented by GM Of Canada and micro fiche build sheet.

[Charley Lillard]

I am hearing different stories about 635036 from more than one person. One is that the car was stolen out of a resto shop and all that was left was the engine. Another story is the engine and trim tag were on Ebay awhile back. There are too many stories floating around behind the scenes to let it sit. Is this the car that was stolen and if so how did it get reunited with the engine, trim tag, body or whatever. If these are all unfounded rumors we should just put them to rest. Is this even the vin of the car listed on Camaros.net ? If it was stolen it would be great to find out all the car, drivetrain and paperwork got reunited and put any rumors to rest.

[rich p]

I would rather have a Black/Blk 4 speed for that price or 100K less for a Rallye Green auto http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

And still have extra money for something else !!

[deuce-less]

this copo camaro is indeed heavily optioned and so it is certainly a more unusual copo camaro. color is up to the individual, i personally believe that the fathom green exterior looks nice. i'm not sure that all canadian paperwork is bullet proof, although very few copo cars have microfiche documentation.

in the end it seems like a nice car and the owner is free to ask what ever he would like for his copo. jmo

alan http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hylton]

Hi Richard,

In a previous post, you stated:

[ QUOTE ]
...I have the entire history on the vehicle. It is quite a story~! I am certain that most cars of this age have quite a tail to tell!
Richard.

[/ QUOTE ]


With such a high asking price for this car, your "quite a story" is all the more intriguing. Please enlighten us!

[Zedder]

Why would you say that you don't feel that all Canadian GM paperwork is bullet proof when you can call GM Canada and get a copy directly from the horse's mouth for $45???

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you say that you don't feel that all Canadian GM paperwork is bullet proof when you can call GM Canada and get a copy directly from the horse's mouth for $45???

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the problems Mark is that some guys just look at the paperwork presented and wholly accept it instead of getting their own copy from GM.

[Zedder]

Hmmm...I'd spend the $45 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[deuce-less]

i think you will agree that any paperwork could be changed or modified wherever it may have come from originally. that being said, calling g.m. of canada directly is a great suggestion, or start. research should include a complete history of the car ideally.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I am hearing different stories about 635036 from more than one person. One is that the car was stolen out of a resto shop and all that was left was the engine. Another story is the engine and trim tag were on Ebay awhile back. There are too many stories floating around behind the scenes to let it sit. Is this the car that was stolen and if so how did it get reunited with the engine, trim tag, body or whatever. If these are all unfounded rumors we should just put them to rest. Is this even the vin of the car listed on Camaros.net ? If it was stolen it would be great to find out all the car, drivetrain and paperwork got reunited and put any rumors to rest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point Charley. I sure as heck would not stay silent if I heard those rumors were floating around about a car I was asking 275k for. People would think I was hiding something by not putting the rumors to bed.

[elcamino72]

I too remember some of those same stories Charley ... it would be nice to put them to bed for good ... or ...

[RARE Z/28]

It seems as though there are several individuals who feel the need to know how I came about my 1969 Copo Camaro. Unfortunately it is not the juicy story most have hoped for. It all began when I was contacted by email about some parts a fellow had for sale. This man indicated that he had a car which when it was all together was rumoured to be a copo. I did not waste any time and contacted him immediately! I asked the usual questions such as what makes you think your car may have been a Copo? He told me that someone had looked at his car being interested in the rear end but found it was a BE code which was not correct for a 1968 SS he was building. I knew this was a pretty good indication of what he may have. I called my best friend and told him of what was happening and that we had to go and see the car NOW! It was four hours from the time I spoke to the gentleman and when I arrived at his home. He had been digging the car out from under household garbage since we had spoken and it still took an hour to get close enough to see anything. All the signs were there. Big block heater core, engine mounts, close ratio transmission and of course the BE rear end. We settled on a price and I pulled the car out and brought it home. It was not until I ran the V.I.N. that I knew what I had purchased. I contacted The York Regional Police, The Metro Police and The Ontario Provincial Police to have sworn avadavits indicating that I was in legal possession of the car. I now had the job of hunting down the engine, trim tag and ownership!!! This was not so easy as the fellow who had them did not want to give them up. It was only after I agreed to pay a substantial fee in the form of cash that I was able to bring the two parts back together. I have since fully restored the car to its original condition.
End of story!

[PPPJJJFFF]

[ QUOTE ]
I would rather have a Black/Blk 4 speed for that price or 100K less for a Rallye Green auto http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

And still have extra money for something else !!

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif

Patrick

[camaromb]

Wow, it sounds like the 4 ZL1's that were just found too!!! Its amazing the luck those Canadians have !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, it sounds like the 4 ZL1's that were just found too!!! Its amazing the luck those Canadians have !!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad all us Canadians aren't so lucky! .

And wasn't it 5 ZL1's that were 'found'? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif
~ Pete

[Zedder]

Actually, depending on what Province you live in it is really quite easy to get "lucky" in Canada http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif For example, if I find a motor up here in Ontario that has a VIN number on it or I have a GM shipper that lists VIN numbers, I can simply go to a DMV kiosk, pay $20 and run the VIN through the DMV. If the car is still registered in Ontario I get the current owners name and city and a list of all previous owners names and the city where they lived at the time of ownership. Then a few simple Google searches and you quite often have a complete history of the car. Guys up here have been doing that for 20 years...why do you think so many rare Canadian cars have been located???

[Charley Lillard]

Thank you for the clarification. I'm not clear on why you ran the vin or if when you ran the vin it came up stolen ? Was it stolen from this guy and then recovered ?

[Stuart Adams]

Is this the Richard English from Camaro Heaven?

[Mr70]

Yep

[Belair62]

Hey....he gave an explaination...if someone is interested in the car they can dive deeper into it if they feel its necessary..WTF ?

[simer]

you hit the nail on the head there Belair62.Wonder if anyone will brave the cold up here or the husky ride into base camp to have a look at this rare c.o.p.o. Or just keep trying to find something wrong with Canadian cars.
Here's too all of us lucky Canadians<font color="orange"> </font> http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Stuart Adams]

Please.

[RARE Z/28]

I would just like to take a moment and comment on my luck! I have been chasing cars for over twenty years. I have travelled hundreds if not thousands of miles to look at cars which were supposedly rare or in mint condition. I have spent hundreds of dollars on telephone calls searching for that needle in a haystack. If you all must know it was my sister whom I have recently become reunited with after 38 years apart, who gave this gentleman my e-mail address. And you have the audacity to make rude comments about the luck of "The Canadians"! At least this is a bona fide genuine Copo Camaro, not something fabricated because it was found with a large sway bar or big block heater core. And to answer Charlie's question; if you lived in Canada and had the resources we have to document cars would you not spend the $45.00 to see whether or not you hit a home run? I certainly did and fortunately for once it paid off. Thank you for the support Bob, Mark, Steve, Randy and anyone else who has supported me throughout this ordeal, and you know who you are. I would hope know that everyone would stop the BS and spend a little more time being concerned about our family members and friends fighting for the very freedom we have here on this site and throughout our lives each and every day!!!

[Charley Lillard]

I guess I asked my question wrong. I was just wondering why you contacted 3 police departments. I don't usually contact the police when I buy a car.

[Belair62]

With all due respect Richard I wasn't actually defending anything , just trying to maintain a little decorum...thats why I am so highly paid. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[ChevyThunder]

Richard .. that is an incredible story. Did you take any photos of the car as it sat, it sounds like one of the "barn finds" we all dream of falling into ...a photo album from start to finish on that car would be awesome to see! Are the owners of the engine and the chassis available ? Did you ever find out how the engine and tags got seperated from the car ? That in itself would be an interesting story as well... I am sure you had to have asked the previous history of the car.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems as though there are several individuals who feel the need to know how I came about my 1969 Copo Camaro. Unfortunately it is not the juicy story most have hoped for. It all began when I was contacted by email about some parts a fellow had for sale. This man indicated that he had a car which when it was all together was rumoured to be a copo. I did not waste any time and contacted him immediately! I asked the usual questions such as what makes you think your car may have been a Copo? He told me that someone had looked at his car being interested in the rear end but found it was a BE code which was not correct for a 1968 SS he was building. I knew this was a pretty good indication of what he may have. I called my best friend and told him of what was happening and that we had to go and see the car NOW! It was four hours from the time I spoke to the gentleman and when I arrived at his home. He had been digging the car out from under household garbage since we had spoken and it still took an hour to get close enough to see anything. All the signs were there. Big block heater core, engine mounts, close ratio transmission and of course the BE rear end. We settled on a price and I pulled the car out and brought it home. It was not until I ran the V.I.N. that I knew what I had purchased. I contacted The York Regional Police, The Metro Police and The Ontario Provincial Police to have sworn avadavits indicating that I was in legal possession of the car. I now had the job of hunting down the engine, trim tag and ownership!!! This was not so easy as the fellow who had them did not want to give them up. It was only after I agreed to pay a substantial fee in the form of cash that I was able to bring the two parts back together. I have since fully restored the car to its original condition.
End of story!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you very much for your explanation Richard as it is important to clarify any issues or rumors on a car so that when you do sell it, there will be no mis-understanding between yourself and the buyer. Having said that, I am suprised by your words:

1. [ QUOTE ]
...He told me that someone had looked at his car being interested in the rear end but found it was a BE code which was not correct for a 1968 SS he was building.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then one sentence later you state:

[ QUOTE ]
....It was four hours from the time I spoke to the gentleman and when I arrived at his home. He had been digging the car out from under household garbage since we had spoken and it still took an hour to get close enough to see anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

So how was it that the guy with the 68 SS was able to see the car and then when you went, the car had 5 hours worth of garbage on it?

2. If someone who was restoring a 68 SS Camaro went to look at a rear end, he would have asked the seller how much he wanted for it before even going to look at it. Any guy with a 68 SS is not going to go look at any rear-end priced more than $1,500. Upon arriving and seeing it as a BE rear, what fool would have passed it up for the price of a 68 12 bolt? Surely he would have taken it anyways.

3. [ QUOTE ]
...We settled on a price and I pulled the car out and brought it home. It was not until I ran the V.I.N. that I knew what I had purchased.

[/ QUOTE ]

So at that point, you knew you had bought a stolen vehicle? That did not bother you? Instead of running from the car or reporting the person you bought the car from to the police as most would do, you decided to obtain ownership of the vehicle?

4. [ QUOTE ]
...I now had the job of hunting down the engine, trim tag and ownership!!! This was not so easy as the fellow who had them did not want to give them up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really??!! Is it not true that the "fellow" who had those items was actually the "fellow" who the car was stolen from?

Allow me to clarify:

http://www.camaros.net/showroom/data/500/medium/635036.jpg

This is the auction which your car's engine and trim tag was for sale. The person selling it is Paul Kelly, who is the individual who the car was stolen from. If your last statement is true, then why was he so willing to sell the engine, ownership and trim tag on Ebay?

5. And finally, you indicated that you found the body first before looking for the "engine, trim tag and ownership". If this is true, then how come when you approached the original owner telling him you had his car which was stolen from him, didn't the original owner take steps to get his car back. I could see him selling the package if he knew his car did not exist - but this would contradict your story.

It is a fantastic story when you really think about it - you found a stolen car that has been missing for 10 years and it just happens to have everything still on it except what was on the Ebay auction. Best part is you get to keep stolen property!

P.S. - Feel free to answer Charley's question as well.

[Stuart Adams]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Imagine that.

[PPPJJJFFF]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Patrick

[Supergas990]

Wow http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif...

That'll raise more questions about an already interesting story.

Blair

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Hylton, this is story most of us have heard - good job laying it out, so can someone pass me the popcorn while we wait for the response? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Mr70]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/popcorn-1.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/popcorn-1.gif

[Born30YrsLate]

where's the dancing banana?...

[SMGCO]

Let me tell you all something. I have had numerous dealings with Richard over the past years. Every one of them has been absolutely one hundred percent above board, professional and with the highest integrity. Furthermore, I know Richard, his wife and his associates to be truly nice, generous and extremely knowledable people that a lot of us should try to learn from.
Check your ego's ( envy ) and let the man sell his car.

[Stuart Adams]

My ego is cool. He can sell his car, we ain't stoppping that. This has nothing to do with egos, that's crazy BS. The guys on this site are awesome at getting to the bottom of things, some good, some bad. We will see what response is made and clarification, etc.

Its like an employee that gets fired, the employer didn't fire them, the employee fired themself.

[Rixls6]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/Rixls6/popcorn-1.gif

Interesting???

[Hylton]

Stuart is exactly correct. We are only trying to clarify stories about this car for our members who may be interested.

We are not bashing Richard English. He does some of the best work out there. His wormanship is exceptional. Everyone of his restos are literally nut and bolt &amp; better than new condition.

[PPPJJJFFF]

[ QUOTE ]
Check your ego's ( envy ) and let the man sell his car.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

Patrick

[rsatz28]

If there was a claim paid by the insurance company back then, could they have some legal claim to the car now to recover their loss?

[quick-bowtie]

This is about as good as Days of Our Lives (and I live for that lol..)..I need to grab a six pack and wait for the response's..

[RARE Z/28]

I have been at work all day and was surprised throughout the day by people who contacted me to first make me aware of the late night post and secondly to offer support in several different forms. I will do my very best to explain exactly how I came to own my 1969 Copo Camaro V.I.N. 124379N635036. I know that I too would be skeptical about a car with such a colourful past, but this car is not unlike several before it and as God is my witness I knew nothing of the e-Bay auction or the stolen body prior to purchasing the car. I was only answering an e-mail from a man who had spoken to my sister. It is true that the car was stolen approximately twelve years before I purchased it. However it was only the body which was stolen and not the engine. The insurance company paid out on the body only and never registered the car as being stolen. Had Hylton done a little more research he would have found this to be true! It is information which can be obtained from the U.C.D.A. (I have a copy of the clear title, police report at the time of theft, and the insurance paperwork indicating the claim and payout)! I did in fact purchase the car with almost everything intact with the exception of the front end sheet metal and engine. As stated in my for sale ad on Team Camaro I have complete photograph documentation from ten minutes after I arrived home with the car and throughout the entire restoration. As far as why someone would not purchase a BE rear end or when the garbage was deposited in and around the car I do not know. The gentleman who looked at the car before me may have done so five or six years earlier. The guy I purchased the car from had the vehicle in his possession for almost seven years. I have reciepts from both the man who sold me the car and the man who sold me the engine, ownership and paperwork. I did not purchase the ownership and engine from the same individual who had it on e-Bay. Again, I have full disclosure from all parties involved. I did all of this through a lawyer and an agent to ensure everything was legitimate and legal. We even went as far as to hire a Police officer to accompany us to the meeting between myself and the person in possession of the ownership (title). The money was held by a third party until the car had been registered in my name through our Ontario Department of Transportation. I can understand why people are interested in knowing how I came about the car and the history behind it. But what I do not understand is why certain individuals feel the need to launch a personal attack on me and my car. Someone willing to spend the time to make accusations should also be willing to respond to a telephone call or take the time to explain the entire story, not just what makes interesting reading. I have sold several cars over the years and I have done so with pride and dignity. I have always stood behind my cars 100%. If someone purchases a car from me and is not completely satisfied with the car and the description I have provided I will give them their money back in full!!! To date I have never had to buy back one single car. I hope this will answer any questions regarding my 1969 Copo Camaro.

[Belair62]

Questions answered. Done. Now if anyone is interested in this car...get ahold of Richard. Thanks for the open responses Richard. I recall talking to you about this car a while back.

[Denis]

Hi Richard. Great car, great story, you handled the questions with class.

But I like the conspiracy theories better.

[RARE Z/28]

Thank you Bob,
It has always been a pleasure speaking with you!

[Hylton]

Thanks for clearing things up a bit Richard.

This is exactly more of what we need. People come forward with concerns and owners are coming forward to answer them.

[simer]

I myself am the proud owner of two top notch camaro's that Richard has sold me.As he has said to myself on many occassion's that if I ever was unsatisfated or tried of them he would buy them back for what I paid for them.We now are restoring a third car,I've become good friends with him and his family,and his staff.Richard has been true to his word on countless occasions.I could not imagine buying a camaro without his input and as for buying a car of this caliber no one can compare!!!.THIS MAN HAS PASSION FOR CAMARO'S No used car salesman here.

I'm not one who usaully gets invole with mud sling but this time a was wachting a great guy who loves his family,friends and company in that order, get rake through the coals.
Randy Simpson

[Jeff H]

Can I ask then if the insurance company that paid out the claim on the stolen body owns the rights to the body still? Just because the car's owner may have been paid for his loss, the insurance company might still have an open case on the body. I'm sure you remember the article this past year about the guy who's Corvette was found on the west coast after 20+ years being stolen. I think this would be the biggest concern to anyone thinking about buying the car.

[Belair62]

The car was being discuseed...Richard happens to own it...so he has to be the one to set the story straight.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I myself am the proud owner of two top notch camaro's that Richard has sold me.As he has said to myself on many occassion's that if I ever was unsatisfated or tried of them he would buy them back for what I paid for them.We now are restoring a third car,I've become good friends with him and his family,and his staff.Richard has been true to his word on countless occasions.I could not imagine buying a camaro without his input and as for buying a car of this caliber no one can compare!!!.THIS MAN HAS PASSION FOR CAMARO'S No used car salesman here.

I'm not one who usaully gets invole with mud sling but this time a was wachting a great guy who loves his family,friends and company in that order, get rake through the coals.
Randy Simpson

[/ QUOTE ]


For the last time - it is not about Richard!!!! It is about the car and clearing up any rumors, facts or otherwise to help members make a more informed decision. Like it or not, a 275k car is going to be scrutinized especially when there are rumors floating around.

[simer]

Just standing up for a friend and his story and the truth.seems to me eariler it wasn't good enought.

[Belair62]

Any more questions give Richard a holler.

[RARE Z/28]

Thank you Jeff for bringing this up! The same company that paid out the claim on the car is the same company which now insures it!!! What more do you people want from me?
I would like to take a moment and personally thank all those individuals who have supported me, my family and the business. You all have no idea how much this means to me! I have tried my best to treat people as I would wish to be treated. Randy is absolutely right, these cars mean everything to me, and anyone who is close to me knows what kind of man I am. 4:30am comes early so I will have to sign off for another day.
Regards,
Richard.