Why no L35 in 1970? [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

Rixls6

10-30-2006, 09:47 PM

My guess is that the LS3 was being offered in `70 as a 330 Horse 402, so it took the place of the L35, and gained 5 Horse.
Also now you could get this LS3 in a non-SS Chevelle, but not in the SS as the lowest horsepower engine was the 402/350 in the SS.

Rick

PeteLeathersac

10-30-2006, 10:00 PM

What Rix says is correct as I remember reading how GM had what they called their 'engine deproliferation program' before 1970 production, deleting as many similar suffixes as possible. . Inventory of so many different suffixes was a problem also keeping them all in the pipeline so if an engine was close to what they wanted, it was slated for production and the 'excess' suffix motors dropped. . Comparing how many total suffixes were offered between '69 & '70 should show a big difference. .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

Gregs396

10-31-2006, 06:49 AM

The LS-3 didn't start until 1971, and it was a 300HP version in the Camaro. The 1970 had either the L-34, or the L-78 402.

Mr. T

10-31-2006, 06:22 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes, the LS3 did not become a BB RPO until 1971. Maybe adding the LS5 and LS6 to the RPO Chevelle/Camino engine list had something to do with dropping the L35, and Chevrolet thought they had enough engine variations for 1970. So, since you couldn't get the L35 in a Chevelle or El'Camino, you couldn't get it in a Camaro or Nova.

Mr70

10-31-2006, 06:39 PM

Because in 1970,we saw the birth of these brand new engines:
*LS-3 402/330HP-Malibu & Monte Carlo
*LS-4 454/345HP-Passenger series
*LS-5 454/360 & 390HP-Corvette-Chevelle-Monte C. & Pass.
*LS-6 454/450HP-Chevelle

Gregs396

10-31-2006, 11:13 PM

Once again, there was NO LS-3 until 1971...... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Rixls6

10-31-2006, 11:20 PM

There definitely was an LS3 available in the Chevelle in 1970. I've personally seen build sheets for some 1970 Chevelles stating the option "LS3".
Rick

ohhawk

11-01-2006, 12:54 AM

www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html#70 (http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html#70)

Check first paragraph on LS3 commentary.

nuch_ss396

11-01-2006, 01:47 AM

WAIT !

Maybe this is the rationale:

Since the 396 was bored +.030 ( actually a 402 ) in 1970,
the HP rating would have been boosted and perhaps that is
why the L/35 disappeared. Still to this day, I wonder why
they made the 402. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif It almost seems like a manufacturing
mistake that got away from them. Does anyone know for sure
why the 402 came into existence?

Gregs396

11-01-2006, 06:39 AM

I have been told that it was to make the 402 and the 454 pistons the same size for standardization purposes, but can't be 100% sure about it. It seems that I also read it in one of my many books... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Gregs396

11-01-2006, 06:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html#70 (http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html#70)

Check first paragraph on LS3 commentary.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a Camaro guy, and was referring to their BB codes... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Kurt S

11-01-2006, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been told that it was to make the 402 and the 454 pistons the same size for standardization purposes, but can't be 100% sure about it. It seems that I also read it in one of my many books... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I had heard it was emissions related. Over 400 ci engine had different requirements. But I've never seen docs on this, haven't seen exception like this, and like the piston explanation better. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Hotrodpaul

11-01-2006, 03:18 PM

402 Pistons : 4.125" Dia.

454 Pistons : 4.250" Dia.

Thats a big difference. If they made them the same size they would have a 427.

Paul

WILMASBOYL78

11-01-2006, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
WAIT !

Maybe this is the rationale:

Since the 396 was bored +.030 ( actually a 402 ) in 1970,
the HP rating would have been boosted and perhaps that is
why the L/35 disappeared. Still to this day, I wonder why
they made the 402. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif It almost seems like a manufacturing
mistake that got away from them. Does anyone know for sure
why the 402 came into existence?

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been many theories over the years, but nothing concrete as far as I know. As for HP going up with the .30 extra, most would say the extra cubes are offset by the lowrise intake manifolds that came on the 70 models. Chevy also added the TCS smog crap in 70, that probably didn't help. Most guys in the day swapped out the lowrise for a 163 or aftermarket unit. Regarding the 402 size, didn't GM have a restriction on engine size in midsize and smallcars of 400 cid...I believe that was lifted in 70,hence the 454 Chevelle was available. Just my thoughts....

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Salvatore

11-01-2006, 07:11 PM

I think the bigger engine sizes were just to stay competitive with the other 2 manufactures! Cubic inches sold cars in those days. If Chevy didn't call the Z/28 a Z/28 and put the trim, stripes, 4 speed and 15" rallies I bet they would not have sold many of them. Too small a motor and not much advertised HP. It was the cubic inch wars in those days. I also think if I remember correctly http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif hearing that a bigger cubic inch motor was easier to control emissions. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

WILMASBOYL78

11-01-2006, 08:00 PM

What do you know about big motors???? 302http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif is that a V-6???

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-01-2006, 09:16 PM

You must be lexic, it's 230 and a straight 6 - ie; your orange car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

olredalert

11-02-2006, 12:25 AM

-----The problem I see with your thought, Sam, is that Chevrolet never advertised the 402s as 402s. If Chevrolet division wanted to keep up with the Joneses they would have advertised them as the cubic inches they really had not as 396s. This isnt to say I have any posative input because I dont. I have wondered about the reason for those extra 6 cubic inches for a long time as well.........Bill S

442w30

11-02-2006, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I also think if I remember correctly http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif hearing that a bigger cubic inch motor was easier to control emissions. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not being a Chevy expert, that's the thing I've heard in the past too.

Regarding dropping the 396/325, I would normally suggest it's because of the introduction of the 454, but the 454 was not announced till later, right?

Additionally, there was the 402 and the SB400. Both were available in the big cars, right? Meanwhile, the standard 396's last year in the big cars was in 1968 since the 396-2 ended up being the only 396 available in the big cars in '69.

So what does this mean? I think having one or two applications for the L35 just didn't make sense, especially with the competitive musclecar market. The GTO had 350hp, the GS had 350, and the 442 had 365hp standard. It just makes sense for Chevrolet to drop the L35.

@wot

11-02-2006, 01:25 AM

Most decisions were driven by marketing. Why advertise a 402 when GM had spent years branding the SS396? It was also marketing that determined engine selection, there was no reason for lots of overlap of cubic inches and horsepower ratings.

Salvatore

11-02-2006, 01:30 AM

I guess if you said I have a 402 in my chevelle that just would not sound rite. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif The 396 was just so popular. I assume the salesman in those days had to set you right about the cubes. But....most didn't know.

WILMASBOYL78

11-02-2006, 03:14 AM

SS 396 was a household phrase by that time, hell they even wrote a song about it!! If Chevy was smarter they would make one of the new gen small blocks a 396 cid and run up the flag....

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Sammy, how many cubes you got?...not ice cubes!!

Kurt S

11-02-2006, 08:05 AM

Paul,
That's what I get for not confirming the piston sizes. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'll have to dig up the emissions rules in 70.....

442w30

11-02-2006, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Most decisions were driven by marketing. Why advertise a 402 when GM had spent years branding the SS396? It was also marketing that determined engine selection, there was no reason for lots of overlap of cubic inches and horsepower ratings.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I was talking about the lack of L35, not the issue of calling it a 402. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Hotrodpaul

11-02-2006, 03:43 PM

I guess if you have an LS-3 rated at 330 Hp available in a non SS car, why would you offer an L-35 engine rated at 325 Hp in the Chevelle SS? Marketing probably thought that the engine option would not sell and to simplify things, decided to only offer the L-34 Hydraulic Cammed engine for those who wanted maintenance free driving.

Why did GM drop the L-78 when the LS-6 became available? Another way to reduce engine choices. I would also imagine that the costs to produce both engines would have been roughly the same. More bang for your buck leads to increased sales in the horsepower war of 1970.

Paul

Jeff H

11-02-2006, 04:34 PM

It really seems like they wanted to consolidate options down to a Rochester carbed hydraulic lifter engine and a Holley carbed solid lifter engine for each line. When the 454 became available they dropped the 396. And do you think they bored the 396 .030 over so it would be 402 and therefore the "big block" would still be larger than the soon to be released 400 "small block"? I seem to remember reading about the bigger bore helping to pass emission's easier but we may never really know why.

442w30

11-02-2006, 05:39 PM

Paul, I agree 100%.

PeteLeathersac

11-02-2006, 05:53 PM

Yes on these thoughts and again GM went through what they called their 'Engine deproliferation program' before 1970 production, deleting as many similar applications as possible and cutting their suffix totals by maybe as much as half? .

I'll look for this info also know I've read something on the 402 bore reason before too...I'm thinking it was maybe 15-20 years back in one of Preve's columns in All Chevy mag? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

Xplantdad

11-02-2006, 09:58 PM

From what I remember reading...it was to control emissions...Plus If I'm not mistaken...didn't the compression ratio drop to 8:5 to 1? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

nuch_ss396

11-04-2006, 03:08 AM

I think I have it. Back in the day, everybody was boring-out
their 396 to +.030 to gain performance, so I guess GM just
decided to save them the trouble of buying new pistons. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Salvatore

11-04-2006, 04:17 AM

Don't laugh Steve. That is what we said all along in the old days. We bored the 283 out to 301 so we all figured Chevy started doing it for us when they came out with the 302. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

ohhawk

11-04-2006, 05:28 AM

"As it was, the leftover "396" identification on the fenders was incorrect anyway since the '70 Super Sport's standard Mk IV big-block in truth displaced the 402ci thanks to a minimal overbore first done very late in the 1969 model run. Not wanting to confuse a good thing, Chevy officials continued to advertise the '70 SS Chevelle as a 396, and all mentions of standard power listed the "396 Turbo-Jet", as did the air cleaner decal under an SS's hood. Scrambling the picture even more was the new 330hp LS3 402ci big-block, which Chevrolet labeled a 400. Not to be confused with the equally new, correctly identified 400ci small-block--a siamesed cylinder evolution of the famed Chevy V-8 that first appeared beneath the "Hot One's" hood in 1955--the LS3 Turbo-Jet 400 was available on all V-8 Chevelle models except SS 396s, the first time a big-block was offered by Chevrolet in an A-body without SS equipment."

....quote from Chevelle 1964-1972 Muscle Car History book

Sounds to me like the short answer to the original poster's question is MARKETING.