L78 VIN stamp photos

[Denis]

Check out this picture of my 69 Camaro L78 VIN stamp, near the oil filter. Pretty fricken hard to see a number there. Press and hold down the mouse key on the picture in the link below and you can see where the numbers were. It's the original born-with block, no doubt about it now, but would've been near impossible to verify without close-up digital photos and Photoshop.

VIN pic:

L78 interactive block stamp (http://www.67z28.net/L78)

[enio45]

that is really cool how you did that!!!

[DarrenX33]

The VIN stamp in my Z28 block is same as this. Took me a while to find it. Very cool Denis. Nice interactive photo work there. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Wow, that is cool! .
Sure wish it was that easy when you were looking at a car! .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

[Zedder]

Since I don't know anything about '69 Camaros, I have to ask...didn't they use a gang holder to stamp these numbers and, if so, how would they become so misaligned? Did you check them against your tranny to confirm fonts etc.? IS the tranny stamping skewed also?

[Denis]

Dunno.

[Tommy_Mathison]

Since it's stamped in rough cast, I think it just looks skewed because each number isn't stamped to the same depth. An optical illusion.

Tommy Mathison

[deuce-less]

i have seen some interesting stamps on the pad by the oil filter...

that stamp looks good to me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[enio45]

Denis - if i sent you a pic of mine ,can do the same magic to my pic?

[Denis]

Sure Ed. Clean the pad best you can and take 6-10 photos from all angles with the macro setting and mail the uncompressed unedited pics to my gmail account: [email protected]. I had the exhaust manifolds off when I took my pics -- maybe if you can get the car up in the air, it'd be easier to get the photos.

[Zedder]

Can any of the '69 gurus answer my questions on stampings like this? Where they gang stamped? Did they match the tranny stampings exactly? Where both hand stamped (hard to believe that might be the case, but I have no idea)? If they are gang stamped, how can they get so skewed and is that common? I am considering buying a '69 Camaro in the Spring and would love to have this knowledge before I start looking for a car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Jeff H]

I think he has the '7' highlighted wrong. The top of the '7' is lower than where he highlighted and then that makes the numbers line up pretty good. But it also lookslike that area was sanded down a little in the attempt to read the numbers and that actually made it worse to read.

[Lynn]

I amy be way off on this, and you would need for John Z. Kurt S. or Mark C. to chime in, because of their specialized knowledge, but I believe that by this time, yes they were gang stamped. However the gang holder seems to have been pretty worn out by the time this one was stamped. Seems like the individual stamps could kind of wiggle up or down. It also seems to me (and again, I haven't seen nearly as many as the aformentioned guys) that on many of the Norwood stamps I have looked at, the second to the last digit appears to be higher than the others.

[Denis]

Here's another closer look.

Appears to me the "19N" part of the stamp is a slightly larger font but still top-aligned with the rest of the stamp. The "603675" is all aligned except for the "7" (second to last digit)

http://www.67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-1.jpg

http://www.67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-2.jpg

[Pacecarjeff]

Yes, they used a gang stamp.
The trans and engine were stamped at the same time.
Both those VIN stamps should be the same.

They where not always lined up perfectly, there was a little bit of play.
When they are stamped perfectly straight - I sometimes become suspicious.

John Z. had posted a picture of the gang stamper they used, way back. It is an interesting thing to see.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Rixls6]

Here's a thread on Team Chevelle that shows some other VIN stamps on 69 big blocks.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122053

[Tommy_Mathison]

Are you sure the trans and engine were always stamped with the same gang stamp? I have seen more then one example of legit vin stamps where the fonts (6's and 9's) on the block and transmission were different. Can this be explained?

[Pacecarjeff]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure the trans and engine were always stamped with the same gang stamp? I have seen more then one example of legit vin stamps where the fonts (6's and 9's) on the block and transmission were different. Can this be explained?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is only one explanation I can think of, and it is not a good one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
If they are different, chances are very good one is a restamp.


Here is an excerpt from John Z's CRG report on the assembly process:

"Chevrolet Assembly - Engine Dress Line Operations Details
The beginning of the engine dress line was a sea of racks full of engines and transmissions; small-block V-8's from Flint V-8 Engine and Tonawanda, big-block V-8's from Tonawanda, and L-6 engines from Flint Motor, plus manual transmissions from Saginaw and Muncie and automatics from Toledo, Cleveland, Warren, and Willow Run.

In the engine schedule area, the operator grabbed the next Broadcast Copy from the printer, verified the sequence number, noted the engine code required for that car, and moved an air-powered overhead hoist on traveling bridge rails over the correct engine rack. The specified engine was hoisted out of the rack and transferred to the next hook on the overhead engine dress line conveyor, where the throwout bearing (on manuals) was greased and installed, along with the clutch fork boot. Another operator on the other side of the line repeated the process with the specified transmission, which was then installed and bolted to the engine; on automatics, an air tool was used to rotate the flexplate, and the converter bolts were driven, followed by the lower cover.

The VIN derivative numbers were stamped in the next operation on both the engine pad and the transmission, using a gang-stamp holder and a hammer. From here on, all the detail dress items were added (plug wires, coil, engine harness, battery cables, carburetor, pulleys, alternator, starter, fan and clutch, A/C compressor, power steering pump, transmission cooler lines and fill tube, A.I.R. pump, diverter valve and air manifolds, drive belts, dipstick and tube, oil filter, engine and transmission mounts, PCV plumbing, vacuum fittings, fuel pump and fuel line, radiator hoses, and (if applicable) the transmission-mounted 4-speed manual shifter and linkage was installed and adjusted (3-speed manual floor shifters were mounted on the cross-member and adjusted later on the Chassis line). Engine oil and transmission lube were added, and the completed engine/transmission assembly was conveyed to the Chassis Line for installation in the subframe. The engine line inspector wrote the engine, transmission, and carburetor codes on the Broadcast Copy and put the sheet in a box for pickup by a Scheduling clerk (needed to create the P-O-P at the end of the Final Line)."

[Jeff H]

Here's where I see the '7' and it lines up pretty well with the other numbers.

http://home.comcast.net/~jeffhansbury/1970SS396/L78stamp.jpg

[Denis]

Jeff you're right. Here is corrected:

http://www.67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-1.jpg
http://www.67z28.net/L78/images/IMG_3754-2.jpg

I still contend the "19N" is a slightly larger font, and with different spacing, than the rest of the stamp.

Where would I find the VIN stamp on a TH400?

[Mr70]

Try looking on the drivers side of the trans.,behind the shift linkage protective rubber boot,where the trans. pan meets the trans. body.You should see a recessed machined pad that should have the exact same formated CON VIN as your engine.
Also inspect the bellhousing outer flange for same.

[olredalert]

------Is it possible that the 19N is simply stamped deeper rather than larger and therefore look bigger. If you look at the #s as a whole they look like the letters get shallower towards the end of the #s, and therefore look smaller.......Bill S

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he has the '7' highlighted wrong. The top of the '7' is lower than where he highlighted and then that makes the numbers line up pretty good. But it also lookslike that area was sanded down a little in the attempt to read the numbers and that actually made it worse to read.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you Expect from a "Middle Age White Guy"......EH!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif


Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Denis]

http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/yenko.net/goalie.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.corvettes-musclecars.com/yenko.net/goalie.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif EH!!!

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Zedder]

I'm glad Jeff noticed the "other" 7 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just couldn't see how a gang holder could let a number float that high above the others. Did you buy the car thinking it was the original motor without a VIN stamp on it?

BTW Denis, I gave your email to a fellow that I know tonight that owns a '69 Z was owned by the same guy that owned your old '67 Z with the "Luv 2" (or whatever it was) plate. He has a pic of his car with the same PA plate on it and would like to speak with the previous owner to get some history on the car.

[Denis]

I bought the car because I liked the color.

I talked to your friend, gave him the seller's phone #. He's happy.

[Zedder]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif Then finding it has the original block is a huge bonus! Thanks for helping Robert out...he's a nice guy http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Tommy_Mathison]

Jeff, neither ae restamps. I pulled both the engine and trans myself and both have different fonts. I think I may have to contact CRG on this one. I know everyone is thinking, how do you know they are original stampings? They are and I can prove it. Strange....

[DarrenX33]

Lighting is a problem, but here is a "car guys" where's Waldo. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/dagcostello/IMG_0846.jpg

[Pacecarjeff]

[ QUOTE ]
Jeff, neither are restamps. I pulled both the engine and trans myself and both have different fonts. I think I may have to contact CRG on this one. I know everyone is thinking, how do you know they are original stampings? They are and I can prove it. Strange....

[/ QUOTE ]

There are always exceptions to the rule.
I am sure CRG would like to see the pictures, and hear your story.
I would imagine that there are 1000's of "not typical" original stampings out there.

This was done on a fast moving assembly line, and the guy doing it - used a big hammer. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[elcamino]

The harder the stamp is struck, the deeper the impression and the larger it will look. If not struck perfectly at 90° to the block, one end could appear larger than they other end.

[Kurt S]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure the trans and engine were always stamped with the same gang stamp? I have seen more then one example of legit vin stamps where the fonts (6's and 9's) on the block and transmission were different. Can this be explained?

[/ QUOTE ]
There's the outside chance it could have a in-plant repair that required a new block or trans (and hence a VIN stamp on the new component). But these happened very infrequently.
They should match. I've seen lots that don't, cause one was stamped years later....