1969 Yenko Nova [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

A468BU

11-20-2006, 12:43 AM

I'm not exactly sure of the horsepower. But it was a 396. I will have to ask my father he knows for sure. They blew the engine in the car I believe within the first 2 weeks of owning the car. I believe it sucked a valve. They called Yenko Chevy and explained to them that they had put headers,4:88 gears and slicks on the car. They told him to put the street tires back on and tow it in. They picked the car back up with a total bill of $2 and some odd change for the oil.

edit
Also forgot to mention it was replace with another 396 engine. I'm pretty sure the heads were also replaced. I remember him say they only reused the intake.

A468BU

11-20-2006, 12:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I did post a reply and it disappeared.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're paranoid...everything that's ever been there is there...

[/ QUOTE ]

I may have not clicked both post buttons then, my bad. And again I would like to stress that I am not 100% sure that this is the car. Like I said though if my grandfathers name was on the title of this car then it was just a plain ol BB nova. I know my father has some pictures of it around somewhere, I'm goin to see if i can get my hands on them and get them on here.

Chevy454

11-20-2006, 12:49 AM

Pictures would be cool!

A468BU

11-20-2006, 01:08 AM

I just looked for some and none to be found. Talked with my father and he feels sure that my aunt has some of it. My uncle that owned the car past away 2 years ago. So I am goin to ck with her in hopes of finding some to post here.

Jeff H

11-20-2006, 01:27 AM

Which VIN # car are you referring to?

COPO

11-20-2006, 03:32 AM

Do you recall if the intake was aluminum? If so, then it would have been a 396 - 375 HP car.

MikeA

11-20-2006, 04:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I did post a reply and it disappeared.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're paranoid...everything that's ever been there is there...

[/ QUOTE ]

I may have not clicked both post buttons then, my bad. And again I would like to stress that I am not 100% sure that this is the car. Like I said though if my grandfathers name was on the title of this car then it was just a plain ol BB nova. I know my father has some pictures of it around somewhere, I'm goin to see if i can get my hands on them and get them on here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be 100% certain about your information before posting these types of statements on a public forum. If I were the owner of the car I would be very upset. Just my opinion.

A468BU

11-20-2006, 06:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And I did post a reply and it disappeared.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're paranoid...everything that's ever been there is there...

[/ QUOTE ]

I may have not clicked both post buttons then, my bad. And again I would like to stress that I am not 100% sure that this is the car. Like I said though if my grandfathers name was on the title of this car then it was just a plain ol BB nova. I know my father has some pictures of it around somewhere, I'm goin to see if i can get my hands on them and get them on here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be 100% certain about your information before posting these types of statements on a public forum. If I were the owner of the car I would be very upset. Just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I said 4 times I am not sure if that is the car. What I do know is someone told me that they restored the car that has my grandfathers name as the first owner and that its restored as being a yenko. And that this was not the first time this car has been brought up to us about it being a yenko car. First time being years ago.

LS6 RAT

11-20-2006, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not exactly sure of the horsepower. But it was a 396.
edit
Also forgot to mention it was replace with another 396 engine. I'm pretty sure the heads were also replaced. I remember him say they only reused the intake

If I were the owner, I'd be more than upset; I'd be depressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COPO

11-20-2006, 03:59 PM

My $0.02 is Brian has been VERY careful to clarify that his statements pertain only to the car that his uncle purchased and was first titled in his grandfather's name. No one has yet confirmed whether the two cars discussed are in fact one and the same. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-20-2006, 04:36 PM

Do you recall who has been contacting you about the car?

Kim_Howie

11-20-2006, 07:04 PM

I have known about this car for 15-20 years. Mick Price found it. Vinnce E. had it on his list back then showing it trans to Yenko Span Group. Gary Dyer owned then. The car has NO issues period. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-20-2006, 07:17 PM

I don't believe there is any question that the car is an SYC car as opposed to an 'ole BB Nova' - no offense to Brian Dorsey - because the car has a file of original SYC paperwork from Warren.

There can always be doubts about whether a '69 Yenko Nova was a 396 tuned car vs. a 427 converted car. I don't believe that there is a formal list of which cars were tuned vs. converted.

I do know that this car was verified by Vince, and it has Ed C's cert as well. So, it would be helpful to know some more of the background of the original purchase.

COPO

11-20-2006, 07:17 PM

Is the discussion about 2 different cars?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-20-2006, 07:34 PM

Sorry, same car. The name on the original paperwork is Cloyd Dorsey.

Jeff H

11-20-2006, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe there is any question that the car is an SYC car as opposed to an 'ole BB Nova' - no offense to Brian Dorsey - because the car has a file of original SYC paperwork from Warren.

There can always be doubts about whether a '69 Yenko Nova was a 396 tuned car vs. a 427 converted car. I don't believe that there is a formal list of which cars were tuned vs. converted.

I do know that this car was verified by Vince, and it has Ed C's cert as well. So, it would be helpful to know some more of the background of the original purchase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Marlin, does this mean the car was ordered by Clyde Dorsey as a 427 SYC Nova? Does Warren's paperwork show that? Or did Yenko do the 427 conversion and put the car for sale on the showroom floor where Dorsey then bought it? I've never followed the Nova's very close so I don't know how most of those cars were ordered/built.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-20-2006, 08:13 PM

To my knowledge, none of the Warren paperwork indicates that a given '69 Yenko Nova is a 396 tuned or a 427 converted car. One of the paperwork clues however that would support a conversion is that there is usually a dollar discount for the original 396 engine - generally $500. Also, the exact process for selling a '69 Yenko Nova is not completely known. We speculate that Don would not go through the expense of a 427 conversion unless there was a legitimate buyer - either locally or another dealer. We also believe that Don bought the SSL78 Novas in batches, and would either sell them through Yenko Chevrolet or Yenko SportsCars - whichever sold them first. This is supported by the trim tag info on several of these cars where the build dates are the same, and body numbers are only a few digits apart.

So, the short answer is that we really don't know how this car was ordered/delivered until Brian Dorsey can obtain some additional information.

Jeff H

11-20-2006, 08:38 PM

I guess I was thinking of Baldwin/Motion regarding specific orders to build cars and thought Yenko might do the same thing with the Novas.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-20-2006, 09:25 PM

I understand your perspective. Yenko was similar to BM for those cars sold from his own dealership, but unlike BM for cars that were transferred to other dealerships. What we have found is that cars sold from Yenko SportsCars to locals have a very high probability of being unique in some way - for eg; think of BKH's 7k mile yellow '69 yenko camaro with the '68 vinyl top added before being sold new by Regency down the street. We know of another '69 Yenko Nova that apparently had a tri-power installed on the original 396. We know of a Canonsburg sold '67 Yenko Camaro with 4 pages of options installed, and a '68 Yenko Camaro with a proto-type f-glass deck lid. So, Yenko would customize cars that he was prepared to deal with the warranty issues. However, it appears that Yenko traditionally would not customize cars that he was selling into his dealer network - and wisely so. Otherwise, he would have to deal with complaints that were not covered under the standard GM warranty.

The car in question is a Canonsburg sold car, so it is even more important to get additional information on how it was optioned new. The fact that there might not have been stripes or emblems is trivial - and not surprising if true - since we have original owner deuces that had to demand Don to put the Magnum wheels on their car, and even then he just threw the 'Y' decals on the front seat! So, if Don could get out of doing something in order to save a few bucks - he would.

A468BU

11-21-2006, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe there is any question that the car is an SYC car as opposed to an 'ole BB Nova' - no offense to Brian Dorsey - because the car has a file of original SYC paperwork from Warren.

There can always be doubts about whether a '69 Yenko Nova was a 396 tuned car vs. a 427 converted car. I don't believe that there is a formal list of which cars were tuned vs. converted.

I do know that this car was verified by Vince, and it has Ed C's cert as well. So, it would be helpful to know some more of the background of the original purchase.

[/ QUOTE ]

Marlin, does this mean the car was ordered by Clyde Dorsey as a 427 SYC Nova? Does Warren's paperwork show that? Or did Yenko do the 427 conversion and put the car for sale on the showroom floor where Dorsey then bought it? I've never followed the Nova's very close so I don't know how most of those cars were ordered/built.

[/ QUOTE ]

Car had a 396/375hp engine when purchased. My uncle really wanted a 440 six pack car which he had ordered, but never came. So he and my father went to yenko chevrolet looking for another car and found this one.

A468BU

11-21-2006, 12:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't believe there is any question that the car is an SYC car as opposed to an 'ole BB Nova' - no offense to Brian Dorsey - because the car has a file of original SYC paperwork from Warren.

There can always be doubts about whether a '69 Yenko Nova was a 396 tuned car vs. a 427 converted car. I don't believe that there is a formal list of which cars were tuned vs. converted.

I do know that this car was verified by Vince, and it has Ed C's cert as well. So, it would be helpful to know some more of the background of the original purchase.

[/ QUOTE ]

The car was sitting on the lot. My father and uncle looked at the car and My grandfather came back and made the purchase. I talked to someone today that spoke with Warren and he has no paper work show that the car was indeed a "YSC", just that it was sold at Yenko.

A468BU

11-21-2006, 12:42 AM

Well this is a picture that I got today from my aunt. It is not very good. It is sitting their garage after it was blown up with the slicks on it. My father did towing for yenko and knew the service manger pretty well. He told him to remove the slicks and bring it in.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-21-2006, 12:48 AM

Excellent info! Warren sold the paperwork to a prior owner several years ago, so that is why Warren no longer has the paperwork. You might be surprised to find that the original bill of sale is through Yenko SportsCars, not Yenko Chevrolet, which is one reason why it's considered an sYc product.

The lack of stripes and emblems is inconclusive as to whether the engine was originally a 396. Do you have a pic of the front fender area, possibly where we can see the marker light bezel?

A468BU

11-21-2006, 12:55 AM

Warren has copy's of that paper work and still has them today. What other kind of info do you want? My father was there in 69. He knows what the car was, he owned an auto business and knew then and knows now what a YSC is. Which this was not. Any one from this area knew this car. In fact over talking today at the garage there were several people around that remember the car.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-21-2006, 01:05 AM

Warren received copies of the paperwork today from the current owner, but the originals were sent to a prior owner in Iowa several years ago.

I'm not sure what to tell ya, but the original paperwork is from Yenko SportsCars, not Yenko Chevrolet, which indicates that the car was/is an sYc product. A buyer would not know/care which entity the car was sold through, it does make a difference today however.

Just some trivia, the last owner in PA was in Mariana - any info on how it got down to that neck of the woods?

Kim_Howie

11-21-2006, 01:36 AM

I noticed the Experts are comenting on this car at the other site!!!!

A468BU

11-21-2006, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Warren received copies of the paperwork today from the current owner, but the originals were sent to a prior owner in Iowa several years ago.

I'm not sure what to tell ya, but the original paperwork is from Yenko SportsCars, not Yenko Chevrolet, which indicates that the car was/is an sYc product. A buyer would not know/care which entity the car was sold through, it does make a difference today however.

Just some trivia, the last owner in PA was in Mariana - any info on how it got down to that neck of the woods?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am posting this standing in Warrens right now with the paper work in my hands. Theres the invoice, loan papers and dealer shipping sheet with my grandfathers name on them. All from Yenko Chevrolet NOT Yenko sportscars as you said.

MikeA

11-21-2006, 02:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warren received copies of the paperwork today from the current owner, but the originals were sent to a prior owner in Iowa several years ago.

I'm not sure what to tell ya, but the original paperwork is from Yenko SportsCars, not Yenko Chevrolet, which indicates that the car was/is an sYc product. A buyer would not know/care which entity the car was sold through, it does make a difference today however.

Just some trivia, the last owner in PA was in Mariana - any info on how it got down to that neck of the woods?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am posting this standing in Warrens right now with the paper work in my hands. Theres the invoice, loan papers and dealer shipping sheet with my grandfathers name on them. All from Yenko Chevrolet NOT Yenko sportscars as you said.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scan them and post'em.

A468BU

11-21-2006, 02:50 AM

Thats what I would like to do. But warren sold the papers to a previous owner and there for can not give me copy's. If YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY would like to call Warren then it can be resolved.

MikeA

11-21-2006, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I would like to do. But warren sold the papers to a previous owner and there for can not give me copy's. If YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY would like to call Warren then it can be resolved.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread your post. I thought you had some additional information.

Kim_Howie

11-21-2006, 04:39 AM

I noticed on the other site. They still don't have clue as always. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Kim_Howie

11-21-2006, 05:34 AM

The train is coming!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Charley Lillard

11-21-2006, 05:38 AM

Howie...your message box is full.......

Kim_Howie

11-21-2006, 05:48 AM

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-21-2006, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I would like to do. But warren sold the papers to a previous owner and there for can not give me copy's. If YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY would like to call Warren then it can be resolved.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you say it's Yenko Chev. vs. Yenko SC then I'll believe it, I recall it was Yenko SC - but I could be thinking of a different car's paperwork, since I don't have a copy in front of me.

Kim_Howie

11-21-2006, 07:31 PM

I read the post from Greg Carlson on the rabbit site about me & Mick Price. Well Greg you keep wanting the Truth. Well here it comes!!! This is what I know. Mick Price bought the car and talked to Vinnce E. he was told it may not be a 427 car because the price, it was sold for less that the other ones. Mick sold the car unrestored to Gary Dyer explaining to Gary what Vinnce told him. Bill Dyer Gary's son called Vinnce & they talked about the car. Bill thought the car could have discounted because of it one of the last 7 sold. Vinnce didn't agree. Gary decided to sell it because there no way to prove it was a 427. He sold it to guy in Iowa. HINT. att. is picture. The third guy from the left is the buyer. The car is retored as a 427 Yenko Nova by him. It was shown at the Nova Nats' in Cedar Rapids,Ia. Was there any paper work with the car at that time I don't know??? But I looked at the car there and there was a cert. stating it was in fact a yenko 427 Nova. The cert. came from the guy to the left of the owner in the att. picture. Greg you stated that the SWC was involved in this. Huh!!! Doesn't look like it to me!!!!! He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw rocks. Kim Howie http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Jeff H

11-22-2006, 01:43 AM

So does anyone know how many of the 67, 68 Camaros and 69 Novas were not converted to 427 cars? Are there any good guesstimates like 10%, 25%? Also, shouldn't some of the cars be removed from the lists as the history on them is uncovered and shows they were purchased as 396 cars like this Nova and the Firemist Nova? Or they should be footnoted at least to show no conversion was done. Do the 67 Camaro lists show which 427 was installed because I thought Don offered several 427's which were different(410hp vs 425hp)?

Belair62

11-22-2006, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Greg you stated that the SWC was involved in this

[/ QUOTE ] Kim...this guy is like Sybil....no one at all listens to him. He was the guy who used to own a LS6 pilot car right ? And the same shmoe who wanted to start an LS6 club but everyone laughed at him ? this just shows how believable he really is with the facts he provides...as usual..none..If you click on the "F" in my signature it shows a pic of him...looks like the usual characters involved once again...

Kim_Howie

11-22-2006, 06:25 PM

Same guys different car. What a suprise. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:05 AM

I'd like to know where the group at the "other" web site come down on this sort of collector car creativity? I notice that group is eager to be critical of anything/anyone sYc, but get amnesia when it comes to cars that are owned, restored or brokered via their own core group. This is one example of what I see as the real problem in this hobby. Some, on the other forum site, claim all the problem cars come from the sYc group, yet this Deuce was restored, certified and sold by one guy in the picture and is now owned by another guy in the same picture. 6-7 years ago, the same two guys had a hand in the red '69 Nova...one owned it and had it restored as a 427 Yenko Nova and the other guy certified it as a 427 Yenko conversion. The hobby seems to tolerate things like stripe color change, adding TT mag wheels, under dash gauges, circa incorrect tires, custom exhaust systems and headers, smog systems gone missing and other added do-dads that the factory/conversion shop order sheet didn't call out...so why is it so wrong for an owner to add/change the carburetor or slightly different paint color hue? It's a rhetorical question...we all know it's the hate-game that causes the personal bashing and gang attacks on anything sYc. Some claim the sYc is at the root of the problem and/or the only problem. With nearly 4,000 registered members and over 500 supporting members, I'd say the sYc is indeed the PREMIER supercar web site. Generally, the people that disagree have a personal bone to pick with one or more of the core group here. Unfortunately, the pictures below depict what I perceive to be the worst of the worst at deception with intent to defraud. Efforts to stop/expose this sort of foul play is time well spent, IMO, but you be the judge. We're accused of having a "flock" mentality here and being nothing more than Clary clan followers that are afraid/reluctant to speak up...how does that theory apply regarding this situation and the core group from the "other" forum site? http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235623-untitled.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:07 AM

. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235624-silver1.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:09 AM

.. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235625-silver2.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:11 AM

... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235626-silver3.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:12 AM

.... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235627-silver4.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:14 AM

..... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235629-silver5.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:15 AM

...... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235630-silver6.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:16 AM

....... http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235631-silver7.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:18 AM

........ http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235632-silver8.jpg

LVCamaro

11-24-2006, 06:31 AM

the above pics are NOT of the red 69 Nova discussed in this thread. I posted here in response to the flaming discussion posts on the "other" forum board about several different cars owned/restored by sYc members.

THE ABOVE PICS ARE NOT OF THE RED '69 NOVA BEING DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD

sYc

11-24-2006, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the above pics are NOT of the red 69 Nova discussed in this thread. I posted here in response to the flaming discussion posts on the "other" forum board about several different cars owned/restored by sYc members.

THE ABOVE PICS ARE NOT OF THE RED '69 NOVA BEING DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD

[/ QUOTE ]

Judging by the tags, it is a '70 Nova.

Xplantdad

11-24-2006, 06:38 AM

I am not an expert on this stuff by any means...but what you just pictured looks like someone welded in a metal piece with the vin stamped on it so that the car in question would be "vin matching" (Hidden and windshield locations)?

That just totally sucks...if that's what I think it is... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

sYc

11-24-2006, 06:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not an expert on this stuff by any means...but what you just pictured looks like someone welded in a metal piece with the vin stamped on it so that the car in question would be "vin matching" (Hidden and windshield locations)?

That just totally sucks...if that's what I think it is... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is what was done..and does suck.

Allen

11-24-2006, 06:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Judging by the tags, it is a '70 Nova. I am guessing a Yenko Deuce.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to the list posted on this site, it's the number for a '70 Cortez Silver Yenko Deuce.

There is supposed to be a VIN stamp by the heater fan opening too.

shor

11-24-2006, 07:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not an expert on this stuff by any means...but what you just pictured looks like someone welded in a metal piece with the vin stamped on it so that the car in question would be "vin matching" (Hidden and windshield locations)?

That just totally sucks...if that's what I think it is...

--------------------
Bruce 

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that even legal?

69LM1

11-24-2006, 07:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not an expert on this stuff by any means...but what you just pictured looks like someone welded in a metal piece with the vin stamped on it so that the car in question would be "vin matching" (Hidden and windshield locations)?

That just totally sucks...if that's what I think it is... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is what was done..and does suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Talk about Glass Houses.......

Also notice that you cannot see a members profiles over there. And the SYC is accused of hiding stuff???? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

rubbinisracing

11-24-2006, 08:45 AM

Could someone please put names to the faces in the picture for me. A pm or email will work if that is preferable. It's hard to follow for those on the outside.

LT1_CRAZY

11-24-2006, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone please put names to the faces in the picture for me. A pm or email will work if that is preferable. It's hard to follow for those on the outside.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at the picture, from left to right.
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/235623-untitled.jpg

Valerie Harrell, Cliff Ernst, Ed Cunneen, Gary Holub, Dave Belk and Tim Lopata.

supermuscle

11-24-2006, 07:25 PM

If I'm following this correctly, this is nuts.. so Gary H bought it knowing it prob wasn't and Ed C certifies it !!!?? Early in this thread someone stated "the car has no issues" did you mean you knew it never was a 427 SYC ?
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Kim_Howie

11-24-2006, 07:31 PM

Perry I stated that. As of a week ago that's what I thought. I still think that. I was tolded years ago it may or may not be a 427 it could have been a 396. I didn't care, I had no dog in the fight and still don't. I hope this answers your question. But some Questions need answers. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

supermuscle

11-24-2006, 08:14 PM

Hey Kim.. thanks, I certainly agree... I have no dog in this fight but this kind of reminds me of the famous supercar man from where I grew up and the games/stories there. Shame if this turns out to be a 396 car all along not that I would'nt still say http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Can-I-Have-It.gif

Xplantdad

11-24-2006, 08:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm following this correctly, this is nuts.. so Gary H bought it knowing it prob wasn't and Ed C certifies it !!!?? Early in this thread someone stated "the car has no issues" did you mean you knew it never was a 427 SYC ?
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Perry...If I'm reading this right (and if I'm not, I'm sorry and the mods can please delete this post)...the last pictures posted are of a silver deuce that was "modified" to make it numbers matching. Some of the people identified in the D.H picture above were (and are) aware of what happened. No one said anything about it until they were "caught". Now they are trying to distance themselves from the perpetrators.

It would be wonderful if this hobby didn't have all the negativity and BS that seems to constantly happen.

I think that all of this stinks...but I'm glad that my priorities are in the right place (Family, faith, friends, then job and finally cars). I WILL NOT continue to post on the negativity and constant crap that is always brought up.

I am happy that I've made wonderful friends since getting back into this hobby...and that is my main focus. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

I have no knowledge of what transpired with the red Yenko Nova...so I can't say anything about it.

Kim_Howie

11-24-2006, 09:05 PM

Bruce I have tried to positive on everything but after the bashing I took and still taking. I started to fight back. They bashed mine then TOM's funny car then Tommy K. Car now the red Nova enough is enough!!! As they are finding out it works both ways.

Xplantdad

11-24-2006, 09:08 PM

Kim, They have nothing better to do...it's that simple. Let them do it...and ignore it.

There are more important things in life to worry about...and they can't argue that point! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

vfitom

11-24-2006, 09:13 PM

So then, the car is one that simply came from Yenko Chevrolet as a 396 and is now turned into a rare SYC one, correct? Thus, the car is bogus, with certain people knowing that, correct?

JChlupsa

11-24-2006, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So then, the car is one that simply came from Yenko Chevrolet as a 396 and is now turned into a rare SYC one, correct? Thus, the car is bogus, with certain people knowing that, correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what happened was it was restored and papered and then sold a few times as a 427 car with all the new owners duped into thinking they had a 427 Nova. That being said if it turns out to be a 396 car I believe the current owner will take the steps to correct the car and still show it as it is a #1 car just the same. 427 or 396 the current owner has nothing to hide and should not be worried about showing it.

CamarosRus

11-24-2006, 10:06 PM

Has anybody besides myself ever made an issue of the current #27 69 ZL-1 (ex Reggie Jackson) being a totaling fabricated/cloned Camaro with NOT ONE part except the VIN TAG having ever been part of the Original #27 (ex Chuck S and Alan Green/Dick Tutino).........and Ed Cunnen certified this !!!!!

JChlupsa

11-24-2006, 10:13 PM

Chuck, It has been mentioned before but since it was your old car and you have all the info some here would like to hear more on it. If I understand you right theres a rebodied ZL1 out there someplace?? Anyone know the current owner and wonder if they even know its a rebodied car.

Charley Lillard

11-24-2006, 10:17 PM

Chuck..Most of us know the rebody story on # 27 and that you used to own it. I think what Ed certified was the vin being ZL1 # 27. You might not like the fine print but I think that is what his certificate says. The red Yenko Nova is a little different because he is certifying it as a 427 Nova according to his records but new info from the Nephew that it was sold new as a 396 car.

vfitom

11-25-2006, 12:03 AM

On the Nova, shouldn't the restorer have known? And what records did Cuneen have to base his certification on? Were they legitimate, or false?

kwhizz

11-25-2006, 12:34 AM

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif (Eating PopCorn and reading)

11-25-2006, 02:41 AM

kwhizz

11-25-2006, 03:04 AM

Well..........The Plot thicken's........Seems like somebody's nose is gonna grow.........and somebody's Credibility is going to be "Tested"....... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif (Still Eating PopCorn).....

supermuscle

11-25-2006, 03:13 AM

Boy you're not kidding, pass the popcorn...

ssl78

11-25-2006, 03:40 AM

I would like to know how many cars Ed has certified I would think over 300. I know there might be some questionable cars but Ed usually only verifies vin numbers. If you wanted a complete COPO inspection he verified the vin, parts and certain main features of the car.
I remember when Vince Emmy was the guy to call about Yenkos some how it shifted to Ed. Ed probably did a better marketing job.
If you read that COPO certificate on the red Yenko Nova it makes it sound like all 37 Novas were converted. Is it possible Ed really didnt know about non converted cars I know one thing the guy that really would have known was Vince but Ed and him I believe were not on speaking terms.
If a car was bought with a COPO cert. how long is it good for as time passes more info comes out, since the net there has been quite a few updates to theese cars. Maybe theese certificates should have been updated or checked out before buying them. Im not saying Ed never did anyting wrong I really do not know if he did or not but there is always two sides to look at.

JChlupsa

11-25-2006, 04:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If a car was bought with a COPO cert. how long is it good for as time passes more info comes out

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess that answer is on Eds main page on his site. Seems like ALL COPO.com issued certs are no longer valid

[ QUOTE ]
 NOTE ON PAST VERIFICATIONS

The COPO Connection officially ended its Registry and COPO Verification process as of April 7, 2006. All outstanding certificates and informational letters issued were terminated at that time and should not be used as a basis for verifying any vehicle as a COPO.

Also, due to time constraints, we will no longer accept requests to research information on a particular vehicle.

We would like to thank you for your past patronage.

NEW EMAIL ADDRESS:

mail(removemefirst)@copo.com


[/ QUOTE ]

rubbinisracing

11-25-2006, 04:27 AM

Shortly before this thread started I was speaking with an aquaintance concerning Ed Cunneen and the reason he stop certifying cars. The aquaintance told me Ed had been sued over a red 69 Yenko that was sold and had been certified by Ed. The new owner had sued Ed thus causing him to stop doing Certifications in the future.

Does any one know of this story and is this true?

I'm reluctant to post this story but believe that when people's reputations are involved the worst thing is for rumor and gossip to lie in the dark. The truth can stand in the light!

PeteLeathersac

11-25-2006, 04:31 AM

Unless expressed as otherwise in the document itself, I'd consider Ed's paperwork such as shown above as being very similar to GM Canada's vintage service paperwork where they're noting what equipment was considered shipped w/ a specific serial number and any other known facts about the vehicle when new...nothing about history from then on or anything concerning the current status or condition. .

~ Pete

Belair62

11-25-2006, 04:57 AM

SSL78..John I think the point of this thread is to show the other site Global Gurus that the red car in question that was restored by SCW was not fabricated by the big bad SYC Members as they seem to be dreaming...the person who bought the car and the people who restored it assumed it was what it was according to paperwork with the car. Now this info comes out from original owners and no one is discounting it. I don't think anyone is trying to throw anyone under the bus like Mr Lapoota apparently did with half the banner holders. I'm sure the owner of this car will do whatever is right.

Dave Rifkin

11-25-2006, 06:18 AM

I'm curious; what is this "other site" that keeps being referred to?

A468BU

11-25-2006, 07:10 AM

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a297/BCAM302/cat.jpg

Belair62

11-25-2006, 07:22 AM

Is your cat an unemployed welder ?

Jeff H

11-25-2006, 08:35 AM

It's not about this site or that site or any other site. It's about cars being misrepresented, restamped, rebodied and embellished. All of these situations are bad for the hobby and I hope we can find a way to truly identify the cars for what they really are. Don't let $$$ and egos destroy the hobby! There are no sides to take in this guys, this is becoming way too big of a problem in the musclecar world! Let's find a way to identify the problem cars and I hope everyone agrees.

firstgenaddict

11-25-2006, 08:48 AM

Amen Jeff.

MikeA

11-25-2006, 04:55 PM

Did one the banner holders try and sell a 1969 COPO Chevelle on this site a while ago that had issues similar to the silver Deuce?

(If I am wrong, moderators please remove post)

camaromb

11-25-2006, 05:51 PM

Mike,
Same owner/restorer on the Silver Deuce and the Copo Chevelle. I had the opportunity to see the Deuce in its "original" state and the low mile 307 Nova that was used for "parts" during the Deuce restoration. Lets just be honest and label cars accordingly. It looks like there is a real need to register the rare cars in general. When a buyer gets burned on a misrepresented car it hurts the hobby. It puts many of the restored cars in question. Whats real anymore for a prospective buyer? Hard to tell anymore for most people.
Mark

COPO

11-25-2006, 06:24 PM

I spoke w/the Seller of the COPO Chevelle and he was very upfront about the restoration process employed on the car. I chose not to purchase it, but there was absolutely no attempt to deceive me.

olredalert

11-26-2006, 05:16 PM

COPO,,, What color was that COPO Chevelle???.....Bill S

-----And what trans did it have???

Xplantdad

11-26-2006, 05:28 PM

Was it the orange one? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif

camaromb

11-26-2006, 06:16 PM

Copo,
Unfortunately the ultimate buyer for the Black/Auto Copo Chevelle did not receive the same disclosure. That is why he told me the car went back to the seller.

ssl78

11-26-2006, 06:56 PM

Mark, I believe that info was disclosed to the buyer I believe there was other issues for the car to be returned.

camaromb

11-27-2006, 03:34 AM

John,
The buyer told me he didn't know until he saw a/c components on the firewall. Although he had been told by others their may have been issues with the car, he said he believed what the seller told him. Who do you believe anymore???
Mark

A468BU

11-27-2006, 07:27 AM

Well what a day. Me and my father went over to Brian's shop today and seen the car in person. All I can say what an awesome car.

It is a shame on what has happened with this car though. Someone was made aware of what this car was 4 years ago when they contacted us about the car and it seems whoever that was didn;t release the information that my father had given to future buyers. When the call came in back then a employee of ours answered the phone, and told my father someone is on the phone about a Yenko nova. I am going to contact him and sees what he remembers anything about the call. What is known that whoever call said they were someone who tracks down these sorts of cars and the car was being restored. After finding out that is was not a 427 asked if we were interested in buying the car back.

And the car has just kept being handed down as a conversion 427 car. Brian even should us paper work from Ed verifying the car was a 427. I would like to see where that kind of information could have come from.

A468BU

11-27-2006, 07:32 AM

Also forgot to mention Brian has been talking to the current owner about removing the stripes and making a few other small changes on the car to make it just as it was when my father picked it out of Yenkos lot 37 years ago. I'd personally like to see it the way it was in that picture I posted. With the black steel wheel and slicks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

sYc

11-27-2006, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
.......... I'd personally like to see it the way it was in that picture I posted. With the black steel wheel and slicks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that would be cool.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Thanks for taking the time to help sort things out. I bet it was neat seeing the car again after all these years.

Now if we can only determine who was told the car was not a 427 "4 years ago". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/234984-davidnova.jpg

Belair62

11-28-2006, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What is known that whoever call said they were someone who tracks down these sorts of cars and the car was being restored. After finding out that is was not a 427 asked if we were interested in buying the car back.

[/ QUOTE ]
That was some pretty critical information 4 years ago and it should have been disclosed immediately IMO. That sucks.

LVCamaro

11-28-2006, 02:51 AM

smacks of a hush job...

sYc

11-28-2006, 02:57 AM

Kind of makes one wonder who did know, and why the information was not made public back then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

A468BU

11-28-2006, 03:11 AM

Well I remember Warren saying he sold the paper work around that time that we were contacted. So it only makes sense that the people had that paper work from Warren in hand to find us. I have not seen any other information linking the car back to us other than that.

sYc

11-28-2006, 03:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well I remember Warren saying he sold the paper work around that time that we were contacted. So it only makes sense that the people had that paper work from Warren in hand to find us. I have not seen any other information linking the car back to us other than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So around four years ago, someone bought the paperwork from Warren,(which one would assume would be the owner at the time), tracked your family down, was told the car was originally a 396, but never disclosed that information. Hum...

A468BU

11-28-2006, 03:32 AM

I'm not really sure if it was the owner that called. But a guy saying he was sort of a car detective and was working for the owner, something along those lines. Also not sure of the exact date of the call and I didn;t ask Warren if he knew the exact date of selling the paper work. But I'm sure warren knows because how he likes paperwork.

Steven J

11-28-2006, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kind of makes one wonder who did know, and why the information was not made public back then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Greed $$$$ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

vfitom

11-29-2006, 08:27 AM

Most likely $$$$ there were $$$$ several people $$$$ that knew $$$$.

MikeA

11-29-2006, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well I remember Warren saying he sold the paper work around that time that we were contacted. So it only makes sense that the people had that paper work from Warren in hand to find us. I have not seen any other information linking the car back to us other than that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So around four years ago, someone bought the paperwork from Warren,(which one would assume would be the owner at the time), tracked your family down, was told the car was originally a 396, but never disclosed that information. Hum...

[/ QUOTE ]

Who owned the car four years ago?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-29-2006, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shortly before this thread started I was speaking with an aquaintance concerning Ed Cunneen and the reason he stop certifying cars. The aquaintance told me Ed had been sued over a red 69 Yenko that was sold and had been certified by Ed. The new owner had sued Ed thus causing him to stop doing Certifications in the future.

Does any one know of this story and is this true?

I'm reluctant to post this story but believe that when people's reputations are involved the worst thing is for rumor and gossip to lie in the dark. The truth can stand in the light!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. However, your reference to a 'red yenko' pertains to a '69 lemans blue Yenko Camaro that was painted red, and had houndstooth interior, etc.... This situation is completely different and independant of this Nova situation. We can discuss the 'red' Y-Camaro subject in a different thread if you like, so as not to divert the attention from the original topic.

MikeA;

The '69 Yenko Nova was last owned in PA by a Mr. Angeletti who sold it to Mitch Moore and Mick Price.

Dyer bought the car from Price/Moore.
Holub bought the car from Dyer, and had it cert'd by Ed.
Hand bought the car from Holub.
Ockerland bought the car from Hand.
Ohler bought the car from Ockerland.
Ohler sold the car to the current owner.

The silver deuce pics are out! I've taken a lot of heat over the years bec/ of that car, what a vindication when I saw those pics a while back. The real silver deuce body was not too bad, much better than several resto candidates. It was a simple decision to go the cheap way out, and use the '70 Forest Green 307, a/t car as a body donor. We can start a different thread for this topic too, but suffice to say that most people should be noticing a pattern when certain people/groups are involved - just take a look at the 'banner boyz'.

will

11-29-2006, 07:46 PM

so with all this selling of a 69 yenko "427" nova, what is the cost with this being so few . last discission I heard was 1 mill just to start talking. so whats it going for the last time. ?????

supermuscle

11-29-2006, 08:22 PM

Ok, been sitting back just reading all of this in amazment or should I say disgust... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif I'm curious about this recent resto by BH, heard from reliable sources we're talking BIG bucks was spent.. Him being a Yenko expert it's hard to beleive he was clue less as to what this car was orig. Just an opinion of course..

Chevy454

11-29-2006, 08:35 PM

Huh? How can you fault BH? We're talking about a non-original engine car that had already seen a semi-restoration! Plus, this car came with *literally* a notebook of stuff calling it a 427 car...it had a certificate from Ed, and *at least* one independant appraiser was hired, who talked to Emme, on behalf of the buyer...all before the car was purchased/restored. You can't fault them for not having been lucky enough to track down a relative of the original owner...someone, or more likely "2 someones", found out what this car was a couple of owners ago, but kept it to themselves until they could wash their hands of it...now THAT is disgusting. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Steve Shauger

11-29-2006, 08:39 PM

Perry in 1969 the Yenko novas were L78 cars converted to L72's. There are no COPO components that would identify the car as such eg: rear, suspension, radiator speedometer. In addition this car had been restored and badged as a 427 car for many years, several times. In addition it was certified as stated above. This cars true pedigree has been hidden by at least one of the past owners and the "Expert Locator/Researcher" who called the original owner four years ago.

68l30

11-29-2006, 08:47 PM

How would you know what it was? With a certificate and paperwork from Yenko.....What is it? Apparently someone did know about 4 years ago....Who was deceptive? You do the best you can until new info comes forward...Is the exact history known on every car? Certainly not.....New information can be found everyday .....There are puzzle pieces all over the place.Different people hold most of the info......until it all comes together the truth may never be known on all the converted or unconverted supercars.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Steve

Kim_Howie

11-29-2006, 08:59 PM

Perry, I think BH was asked to restore the car. Not check the history.

supermuscle

11-29-2006, 10:14 PM

Good points all, not throwing stones but it all just seems strange...

vfitom

11-29-2006, 10:18 PM

Then it would seem that the person who certified the car, and the info he received from whomever to certify the car, made an error(s). ??? Should be easy to rectify. But the $$$ part won't be as easy I suppose.

Kim_Howie

11-29-2006, 11:10 PM

Gary Dyer sold the car in 94 or 95 wasn't
showed until I think 99

William Dyer

11-29-2006, 11:46 PM

Hi All,

First of all, I owned the car back in the early 90's

This is how it happened.

We bought the car from Price & Moore. It was one of the 37 on the Yenko list.

We talked to Vince Emme who told us it was on the list, but it might be a 396. I asked Vince what led him to believe that. He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for.

I asked him, does it say anywhere in the paperwork that it was not coverted to a 427? Answer was no.

My contention is that, as they do today, dealers sell distressed cars at discounts. The 427 Nova was impossible to insure, so Yenko probably sold them at 396 prices to move them out the door. It was also the end of the model year and the duece Novas were on their way.

But since Vince was set against this car being a 427 at the time, we sold it for about what we paid for it. We never touted the car as being a true 427 car, only as being a 69 Yenko Nova that is on the SYC list.

My questions

Why is it on the SYC list if it's not converted?

Why would Yenko assume the warranty liability on a standard 396 Nova?

Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?

Did Yenko sell any factory 427 Camaros or 427 Chevelles in 1969 at a discount? Does that make them unconverted?

Just my opinions.

William Dyer

Charley Lillard

11-29-2006, 11:51 PM

"Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?"

I think Dorsey is saying it did sell thru Yenko Chevrolet as a 396 Nova.

supermuscle

11-29-2006, 11:56 PM

"Why didn't the car sell through Yenko Chevrolet if it was a plain Jane 396?"
Info from the orig owner family early in this thread states paperwork showing it DID sell thru Yenko Chevy, not Yenko Sportscars...
The best question of the bunch above IMO is why is it on the SYC list ?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 12:02 AM

The discount appears on several, if not all, of the '69 Yenko Nova paperwork files from Warren. We initially felt that it represented a credit for the original L78 powerplant, but could never be sure because the original paperwork never mentions the 427 swap. There does not appear to be a reason for the discount on these cars other than to sell them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

We know of another original owner of a '69 Yenko Nova, we are trying to track him down to see how his car was optioned - or was it a 396 car as well. Apparently it was stolen in '73'ish while he was at a football game.

William Dyer

11-30-2006, 12:31 AM

Ok, so you guys are saying that Yenko Chevrolet received a 396 Nova, transferred it to Yenko Sports Car Conversions, then transferred it back to Yenko Chevrolet to sell?

If it wasn't touched, it wouldn't have been transferred or put on the list.

The reason it was put on the list was that it was converted.

Maybe Don Yenko made deals on those last cars so that the locals didn't get dinged on the insurance. Left off the stripes and badges so no one around there would know it was a 427.

As I said before, there is nothing in Yenko's paperwork from SYC that says the 7 Novas were NOT converted. If so, they wouldn't be on the list.

William Dyer

Kim_Howie

11-30-2006, 12:38 AM

Hi, Bill I tolded you it was interesting.

Mr70

11-30-2006, 12:40 AM

"He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for".

Is it possible today to find these other 6 Novas and determine if they too were all sold new with 396 engines?

A468BU

11-30-2006, 12:41 AM

There was nothing on the paper work from Yenko that said it WAS either.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"He said it was because the SELLING PRICE of the last 7 Novas was below what the other cars were sold for".

Is it possible today to find these other 6 Novas and determine if they too were all 396 engines?

[/ QUOTE ]

We don't know which ones are 'the last 7' http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Perry, we have 22 of the 37 numbers, so that is what we published and that is why this car is on the 'list'. Just because it's a non-converted car does not mean that it's not an sYc car - there were several '68 Yenko Camaro's that were not converted either. There are several '68 Gibb Novas that were 'tuned' by Harrell but not converted, they are still Harrell cars.

Chevy454

11-30-2006, 01:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Info from the orig owner family early in this thread states paperwork showing it DID sell thru Yenko Chevy, not Yenko Sportscars...

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not necessarily indicative of anything...I believe a vast majority of the Yenko cars all show Yenko Chevrolet not YSC, Inc, on their paperwork, when we know they did in fact come through YSC, Inc...in fact [BKH or Marlin correct me if I'm wrong or fill in the blanks] but I seem to recall a '67 Harrell converted Yenko Camaro that was a Span car that has heavy paperwork but doesn't show YSC, Inc on the paper...and neither did the heavily modded @ YSC '69 Yenko Camaro that we know of. Donna Mae has mentioned "sloppy paperwork" on occasion, which goes along with what we found in our original paperwork from the estate...

William Dyer

11-30-2006, 01:05 AM

The reason they are on the sYc list in the first place is that "special things" were done to them that made them come off the factory warranty list.

They had to transfer them to SYC in order to take Yenko Chevrolet off the hook in case someone went to the district manager saying "hey I bought this 69 Nova from Yenko Chevrolet and when it pitched a rod after 1 month, I took it to Joe Blow Chevrolet in Pittsburgh and it has a 427 engine in it. I want another 427 engine put in it."

Yenko Chevrolet would be breaking federal law and their GM agreement by swapping out engines.

So they made Yenko Sportcar Conversions to swap engines that they couldn't do at Yenko Chevrolet.

When the 69 COPOs came around, Yenko kept up the notion that they converted them to keep the COPO ordering a secret (though it came out anyways).

William Dyer

A468BU

11-30-2006, 01:10 AM

Well it seems our car was on that list but it did have an engine replaced under warranty.

Charley Lillard

11-30-2006, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so you guys are saying that Yenko Chevrolet received a 396 Nova, transferred it to Yenko Sports Car Conversions, then transferred it back to Yenko Chevrolet to sell?

If it wasn't touched, it wouldn't have been transferred or put on the list.

The reason it was put on the list was that it was converted.

Maybe Don Yenko made deals on those last cars so that the locals didn't get dinged on the insurance. Left off the stripes and badges so no one around there would know it was a 427.

William Dyer

[/ QUOTE ]

William...The thinking is the cars on the list are Yenkos but what we have just learned from the orig owner is the red car(that is on the list)was bought new off Yenkos lot using Yenko Chevrolet paperwork(as supplied by Warren D)as a plain 396 Nova with no mods done. The orig owner is saying very clearly that it was not sold as a Yenko.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 01:28 AM

To follow up on Charlies point: the next logical question is if this particular car was a 'plain 396 Nova with no mods done' then why did it even make it onto the list of 37?

The prevailing thought is that Yenko bought these L78 Novas in batches and had them stashed in the upper lot awaiting conversion through sYc. However, if someone wanted one of them without being modified or converted, it would be sold as such even though it was originally intended to be used in the SuperCar program.

supermuscle

11-30-2006, 01:49 AM

Charlie put it much better than I... knowing what we know now, why would it be on the list when it was not sold as anything but a 396 Nova ?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 01:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie put it much better than I... knowing what we know now, why would it be on the list when it was not sold as anything but a 396 Nova ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my posts above! It appears you are particularly anxious to have this car removed from the 'list', while most of us are still digesting what is evolving here. What gives?

supermuscle

11-30-2006, 02:04 AM

I am not anxious to have anything done, just wondering why like others. I'll stay out of it Marlin..

Jeff H

11-30-2006, 03:24 AM

It still makes you wonder how many of the 67, 68 Camaros and 69 Novas never received a conversion. It almost seems like the lists are cars that were selected for conversion but obviously not all of them received it. The lists should probably be notated showing which cars are known to be conversions and which cars are known to be non converted.

Belair62

11-30-2006, 03:27 AM

I think the current owner could give a [censored] about any lists...who was this Locater http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif or the guy that "finds" these cars that knew this info 4 years ago just let the charade go on ? We wouldn't even be talking about this if that person would have been honest.

Salvatore

11-30-2006, 03:33 AM

How right you are Gags! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

69LM1

11-30-2006, 03:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the current owner could give a [censored] about any lists...who was this Locater http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif or the guy that "finds" these cars that knew this info 4 years ago just let the charade go on ? We wouldn't even be talking about this if that person would have been honest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Said. Who was the mystery person? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Rich

Charley Lillard

11-30-2006, 05:46 AM

Has anyone asked Warren who he sold the paperwork to ?

Belair62

11-30-2006, 07:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well Said. Who was the mystery person?
Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows...lots of folks back then were locating stuff...and hell...it would still be a shiity thing but now that this stuff is so expensive...it has become critical that this kind of info is shared.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not anxious to have anything done, just wondering why like others. I'll stay out of it Marlin..

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to 'stay out of it', I was just curious why you have such a specific interest in 'the list' and wanted it changed.

JeffH: As of right now, altering the list of vins is the last thing on our minds. The car's heritage is front & center, and documenting the chain of events takes priority.

In all honesty, I'm not sure the list will get changed. This car made it onto the list of 37 because of something, it was not put there by us - but by Yenko. So, we are trying to figure out what the process was in '69 to get certain cars included in this group vs. others. We have known all along that some cars were not converted, but how would we know which ones? We don't even have all 37 numbers, so if the 'later' ones were non-converted how would we know which ones were the 'later' ones. We are not about to guess which ones. This is consistent with other years/models that have unconverted situations. We don't guess, (and * ), which '68 Yenko Camaro's are non-converted, nor which '68 Gibb/Harrell Novas were non-converted. We simply offered the list of numbers as we had them, and please note: the listing of '69 Yenko Novas does not say that they are all 427's, it only says that they are Yenko Novas. There was actually a method to the madness during the years of assembling all that info!

Jeff H

11-30-2006, 04:53 PM

I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate. Obviously we don't know which cars are converted and which ones aren't. But as people uncover the history on a specific car(Camaro or Nova) that vehicle should be positively identified for what it is, either a 396 non conversion or 427 conversion. Even if just 1 car is positively identified on the list it makes the list more accurate. Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate. Obviously we don't know which cars are converted and which ones aren't. But as people uncover the history on a specific car(Camaro or Nova) that vehicle should be positively identified for what it is, either a 396 non conversion or 427 conversion. Even if just 1 car is positively identified on the list it makes the list more accurate. Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's obvious from your statements that you have not spent much time working on a project like this. There are times when it is better to leave published information in a general form. I could add the options, build dates and body numbers to several of the vin's too - that would make the list more accurate/specific as well. However, experience can be a very good teacher, and sometimes too much info can create havoc.

You are more than welcome to make an effort, perhaps you would like to be the one to place an asterick on the '69 Yenko Camaro's that you suspect are rebodied - that would make the list more 'accurate'! Go ahead, see where that gets ya http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

MikeA

11-30-2006, 05:04 PM

68l30

11-30-2006, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why have the lists if they aren't going to be maintained and accurate? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to start somewhere don't you? When info is discovered I'm sure the list will be updated.....Heck,if the numbers were not listed here many of you would have never seen them.....This is not a easy thing to compile.With all the time and energy spent in the first place it's often a wonder why people are still unhappy with the info that is spoon fed to them.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Steve

William Dyer

11-30-2006, 05:55 PM

Yenko Sportcar Conversions didn't order any cars from Chevrolet. Yenko Chevrolet bought the cars and then transferred them over to SYC for conversion.

The car had a file with SYC meaning it had work done. Being on the list meant that Yenko took responsibility of the warranty on the car, not GM.

From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

So why would Yenko take responsibility of this car's warranty when it is a plain jane '69 L78 Nova?

If the car wasn't converted, they would have simply moved the car back over to the regular dealer lot and the car wouldn't have been put on the SYC list.

The cars were put on the SYC list when they were delivered to the customer or transferred to the purchasing dealer showing the selling price, vin, color, trans, and extra notations.

The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing.

Why would an employee of his buy a 396 L78 Nova to race when they had 427 Camaros and 427 Novas which were a lot faster?

Yenko was in business to sell cars and make money, he wasn't doing this hoping one day these cars would be that valuable.

As I've heard from many a dealer:

"What's it gonna take to sell you this car today?"

My father built and raced the funny cars for Mr. Norm's Grand Spaulding Dodge in Chicago (1964-1975). It was common for them to make "special cars" for a customers and make them look stock for street and drag racing.

My father was also a good friend of Dick Harrell and was on the starting line in his own funny car when Dick blew the front tire, hit a post and was killed in Toronto.

Again, just my opinions

William Dyer

Charley Lillard

11-30-2006, 06:30 PM

"Well it seems our car was on that list but it did have an engine replaced under warranty."...from the orig owner family.

From William ...."The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."
William...The orig owner is telling you it was a 396 and it even got replaced under warranty yet you seem to think he is trying to hide it being a 427 for some reason. The owner has been saying this for at least 4 years but you think he is making it up ? Don't you think maybe they transfered them on paper to SYC but since sales were very slow maybe they just got sold off the Yenko Chevrolet lot ? As 396's ? Bone stock ? Maybe it was still on the SYC paperwork list when sold but the guy writing up the sales contract had Yenko Chevrolet paperwork to work with so that is what he used. Both businesses were apparently in the same place and the file from Warren shows it was done on Yenko Chevrolet paperwork.

Jeff H ...."I have to say that it doesn't make sense to maintain a list that isn't accurate"

Read the list...The main thing we list are the vins. We make no claims to them being 427 cars as some would like you to think we are doing. Are you trying to say our vin list is not accurate ?
We have not listed them as 427's because we don't know. Ed C screwed up and certified it as a 427. It is apparent from the orig owner it was not so now Ed is probably not sleeping well because someone is out alot of money and they probably relied on his certificate. I'm guessing in court he would be asked to show what made him think it was a 427 enough for him to certify it.
One of the previous owners or one of his affiliates knew it was not a 427 4 years ago and kept quiet probably so they could unload the car at a 427 price instead of a 396 price. I suspect this will all get sorted out by attorneys. In theory the orig owner could be making all this up but I doubt it and I would still like to see one document proving the car was indeed made a 427.

Kim_Howie

11-30-2006, 06:41 PM

I got a question. The gibb cars had 90 day warranty when normal cars had a 5yr/50,000 mile warranty. Does anybody know what the 67,68 Yenko camaros & 69 yenko nova's have??

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

11-30-2006, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I got a question. The gibb cars had 90 day warranty when normal cars had a 5yr/50,000 mile warranty. Does anybody know what the 67,68 Yenko camaros & 69 yenko nova's have??

[/ QUOTE ]

The only info I have regarding the warranty on the '69 Y-Novas is on K.Suydam's car, and it describes the car as a 427 with a 90 day warranty. As of right now, it's the only car that I'm aware of with something in writing from Yenko that says the car has a 427. It is important to note that the car was not sold from Yenko, but rather from Stauffer Chev. in Scranton. The non-converted Novas so far appear to be sold from Yenko.

Kim_Howie

11-30-2006, 07:18 PM

This makes sense to put the cars in a Corp. Away from Yenko for liab. & warranty problems.

Keith Tedford

11-30-2006, 07:41 PM

Our COPO Chevelles got the 5-50 warranty like any other Chevy. I assume the L88 Vettes and ZL1 Camaros got the same treatment. GM probably gave the 90 day warranty on any new engine that was installed. Just guessing. I don't think that Ford or Chrysler gave much of a warranty on their top of the line muscle cars. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

will

11-30-2006, 07:47 PM

just from a joe blow that knows next to nothing on these cars.

wasn't the orginal owner an employee/friend of yenko, could that be the reason for the lower selling price.

or maybe the car was on the list due to some other mod, maybe gears,or shifter,tuning ???

are there anyone who worked for yenko that might shed light on the selling process.

another thought, the 427 cars were faster, and this car was raced when new, how fast was it 396 fast 0r 427 fast.

either way it's a buetiful car

just my $.02 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

supermuscle

11-30-2006, 07:53 PM

Again Marlin I have no specific interest in "the list"
I was under the assumption the list was just for special cars..i.e. SYC 427 Nova's in the case or maybe special 396 that had be modified. With the info from the orig owner family saying for sure it was just a 396 on the lot with nothing done why would it make a list ? I'm not saying you or yenko.net put it there just that it seems it should'nt be there unless every 396 Nova yenko sold is on this list.

69LM1

11-30-2006, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
plain jane '69 L78 Nova?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take one please! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Could'nt resist!

Rich

68l30

11-30-2006, 08:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you or yenko.net put it there just that it seems it should'nt be there unless every 396 Nova yenko sold is on this list.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why remove it from the list? We don't even know exactly why it is on the Yenko sheets to begin with....You need to dig deeper to find out why or how they were ordered and what was the initial plan for these cars..They are part of the Yenko docs for a reason....Why the knee jerk reaction to discredit the list or cars without knowing the whole story?

Also,please clarify which lists....Yenko.net or the papers from Canonsburg....... I feel both hold true as they are....Until further docs or history is uncovered to prove otherwise..Like the first owner did in the case of the red Nova....Nobody knows it all http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Steve

Belair62

11-30-2006, 11:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would still like to see one document proving the car was indeed made a 427

[/ QUOTE ] And show us paperwork that proves it's a 396 if there is any outr there.

This is actually turning out to be very interesting...crap situation but interesting.

Mr Yenko

11-30-2006, 11:53 PM

You would think that most if not all 67,68 Yenko Camaros and 69 Yenko Novas sold outside Canonsburg would be 427 converted cars, Cause why would any Dealer buy the same car that they could from the Factory. So the only thing selling these cars were the idea of getting a 427 Camaro or Nova.
Just my .02 cents.
The "MOF" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Kim_Howie

12-01-2006, 12:01 AM

Good point!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

William Dyer

12-01-2006, 12:35 AM

Ok, I looked up my notes from when I talked to Vince Emme on the phone in 1992.

My notes from the conversation goes that the car was sold in June of 1969 within a couple weeks of delivery to Yenko Chevrolet.

Now, the car was a 04B Build on the trim tag, so I don't know when it would have been delivered to Yenko.

Doesn't look like the car sat for a long time before being moved through SYC.

William Dyer

A468BU

12-01-2006, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I looked up my notes from when I talked to Vince Emme on the phone in 1992.

My notes from the conversation goes that the car was sold in June of 1969 within a couple weeks of delivery to Yenko Chevrolet.

Now, the car was a 04B Build on the trim tag, so I don't know when it would have been delivered to Yenko.

Doesn't look like the car sat for a long time before being moved through SYC.

William Dyer

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you are saying. The car was bought in May and it never went to SYC. It was sold through Yenko Chevrolet. There was no paper work from SYC what so ever.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

12-01-2006, 01:11 AM

The June date is probably the 'titled date', which usually lags behind the actual sale date. The titled date is what is listed on the VIN search results from the PA DOT.

You are correct, there is no sYc paperwork, I was mistaken in my early posts bec/ I was thinking of another car that does have the sYc letterhead. After researching several more SuperCars sold out of Yenko, they all have Yenko Chev. paperwork.

Keith Tedford

12-01-2006, 01:55 AM

By the summer of '69, these cars weren't moving off the lots very fast. I had plenty of time to choose between the Nurse Camaro and the Beare Chevelle. Typically insurance was around $400 for a Chevelle like ours. I think it was more a matter of most people not being able to afford the cars in the first place. You weren't buying $4K cars unless you were fortunate enough to have a GM job or something comparable. By late summer, I imagine Yenko would move these cars any way possible. They probably didn't care what engine the cars left with just as long as they were gone. By August, the dealers would know that bigger and better was coming out in the fall. GM was talking 454 Corvettes, Camaros, and Chevelles. Who would want a 425 hp '69 Chevelle or Camaro when they could have a 450 hp 454 shortly. I know that it irritated me a little when I found out what was coming down the pipe line. Not now. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

67rsss350

12-01-2006, 03:48 AM

My Dad and Uncle both remember this car, my Uncle even road in it back then. He thought David Dorsey owned it, my Dad and Uncle both said it was definitly was a 396/375 not a 427 Yenko (they said it ran GOOD). There were some hot cars in the Southhills of Pittsburgh back then. My Dad's first new car was a 65 Impala with a 396/425 motor (pretty rare) and it was not an SS, his friend Harry had a 65 Z16 Chevelle he bought new.

A468BU

12-01-2006, 06:06 AM

Harry Cook?

67rsss350

12-01-2006, 06:54 AM

Yep Harry Cook, My Dad (Stephen Kotula) put a cam and 427 Tri-power set up on the car after Harry blow-up the original motor and had a warranty one installed. The car didn't have posi from the factory, he had the dealer installed one about a year later (the soonest the dealer could get it). My Uncle is Chuck Chovanec, I work for him. Was the Nova David's or Tad's? Sincerely Brian Kotula

69hurstSC

12-01-2006, 07:10 AM

seriously, the best place to research this car is in the town it ran in. From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

did kevins car come from GM with the 427 in it or was it converted by Yenko?

69hurstSC

12-01-2006, 07:11 AM

seriously, the best place to research this car is in the town it ran in.[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard about the 37 Novas on the list, only one has a 427 notation next to it, so you can't just say since it doesn't say 427 that it's a 396. Then you'd be claiming that the other 36 weren't converted.

[/ QUOTE ]

did kevins car come from GM with the 427 in it or was it converted by Yenko?

vfitom

12-01-2006, 09:42 AM

Prior statement in an above message: "The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."

As to the above, is there any proof/surviving cars of this theory? I think this idea is far fetched as far as this 69 Nova is concerned. You have the original owner and now his friends saying it was a 396. Why can't that just be accepted?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

12-01-2006, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Prior statement in an above message: "The only reason I can think of is that they did convert it to a 427 or 454 (depending on the delivery date), and then sell it less stripes and badges so their employee can get it insured and race it in the 396 class without anyone at the track knowing it was touched. Make the paperwork out saying it's a 396 for his insurance company and financing."

As to the above, is there any proof/surviving cars of this theory? I think this idea is far fetched as far as this 69 Nova is concerned. You have the original owner and now his friends saying it was a 396. Why can't that just be accepted?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it is accepted that the car was indeed a 396. This is quite a shock, and it will take a bit of time for everyone to get on the same page. These cars made it onto this 'list' for some reason, we just don't know how/why!

Do any of you guys out there in P-burgh know a Tom Farr or Joseph Bongirono?

moparts

12-01-2006, 04:58 PM

I don't think this is the 1st case of this happening with a car. (being sold without being modified) How many Yenko Stingers went out that way? From what info we can find there were a 100 more or less corvairs sitting on Don's lot and he would sell them how ever you wanted them. So what would make anyone think that the nova's would be any different? The main difference is you got a tag with the Stinger.

Would it have made things better or worse if Don had kept putting tags on all his SPECIAL cars?

PeteLeathersac

12-01-2006, 05:58 PM

Sorry for a lengthy posting but here's a couple thoughts...

Reading this thread reminded me of my days in the car business and how our dealership had another separate 'holding company' we would often 'sell' the vehicle to even though it didn't move from it's spot on the lot. . This was done so the dealership could take advantage of manufacturer incentives offered for reaching total number of certain models or grand totals of all units 'sold' in specific time periods...also sometimes for specific tax and accounting reasons too. .

In our case anyway, when the car was actually sold to the end user/customer, the paperwork was the same dealership stuff but one key thing differed...the 'in service date'. . This is the date the manufacturer considers the vehicle sold and the warranty begins ticking away...even though the vehicle still sits on the lot as a new car. . This date thing was seldom mentioned to the customer, hopefully never noticed by anyone and was occasionally a problem if the customer had a legit warranty concern and the manufacturer's warranty had actually just run out. . These cars and other vehicles 'with issues' were on our own lists to recognise the situations and 'warranty' was often covered internally as we didn't want customers to know what was going on. .

As much as I understand, this practice is totally legal and a common situation among car dealers also I don't think things are any different today? .
When buying cars I am still careful to check and clarify with dealerships what the 'In Service/Warranty Date' is! .

This whole blurb is not to say Yenko could have been doing anything crooked but to consider how and why Yenko Chevy could've 'sold' the units to Yenko SC before they were actually needed for conversions...it could be a similar situation where Yenko Chevy could meet sales goals, gain manufacturer incentives or take advantage of tax situations also a place to land vehicles w/ issues? .
If one of these vehicles happened to be sold to a customer before a conversion was ever done but after being passed on to YSC, it would have been on the YSC list, unmodified but with different warranty coverage? .
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

Stuart Adams

12-01-2006, 06:47 PM

Good point. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif Interesting to say the least.

camaromb

12-02-2006, 02:09 AM

There is no question that some of the 37 Novas were converted to 427 cars. There are some well documented examples. Vince Emme said years ago that 30 of the 37 were converted to 427s. Unfortunately we don't have his paperwork, but certainly some of the Yenko sold cars were not converted. It maked sense that the distributed cars were converted, no reason to get a 396 Nova shipped in from Yenko.
Many Yenko Camaro orders were being cancelled mid-year. One can only imagine how hard it was to sell 427 Novas given the insurance issues performance car buyers were facing.
Mark

JTH74

12-02-2006, 07:52 AM

This is a very interesting topic to say the least and could become very bad for some people involved,and I feel bad for the owners that bought this car in the last 2-4 years thinking it was a 427 Nova. Transferring these cars over to YSC would have helped Yenko Chevrolet sales #'s, and it being a late car with the 454 cars coming it could have just been sold through YSC and not tranferred back to Yenko Chevrolet, or they could have done some slights mods to it, headers,tach,stripes, wheels and sold it as a Yenko Nova and it be on the list of 37 YSC Novas, either way its a Yenko Nova, just not a 427 Yenko Nova, as the original owner states and that should be the definitive word barring original docs to document a car, I don't see why the original owner would need/want to lie because he has no financial gain or loss in this car. There are people on here screaming that since this car was on the list of 37 that it "had" to be a 427 car and rightly so if they are one of the people that knew 4 years ago that this car was a 396 instead of 427, trying to cover their a** because of the probable lawsuit coming from a few owners of this car for some serious misrepresentation. This is still a neat/unique car being a L78 Nova from Yenko Chevrolet and it being on the list of 37 as a YSC Nova. Didn't Brian H have a Yellow 69 YSC Nova with stripes,a L78 with a tri-power set up and it was on the list, correct me if I am wrong. The current owner and past owners of the car since it was discovered it to be a 396 will have a legal avenue back to the people that intentionally misrepresented this car. I can see why Ed C. does not certify these cars anymore. This is a sad situation to see but I can see how it can happen with the money that these cars command, greed has taken the place of preserving these rare monsters for others to see and just the pure love of the hobby, this is another situation where a few leave a bad taste in everyones mouth. I have been lucky enough to have been around some of these rare cars in a more personal setting where I could go right up to them, touch them, sit in them when Randy Miller owned a ZL1, 2 69 YSC 427 Novas,4 69 YSC Camaros, 1 69 YSC Chevelle, because it was a definite priviledge to have been able to go 2 miles from my home and see all this in one place, and I thank Randy for allowing me to have access to his cars and was the perfect gentlemen and glad to show them to me probably when he didn't have the time to do it, but took the time because he knew that I would not be able to see those type cars again anywhere else all in one place, and to Randy thank you! When I went to his garage to see all these great cars and I knew what all the cars were, how many were made,etc, but the 2 69 YSC 427 Novas carried a certain mystique above the rest and on the same level as the ZL1 Camaro, as both being brutally/deadly powerful and fast. Thanks to those in the hobby that keep it pure for the love and preservation of these awesome cars for the future for others to see and experience, didn't mean to rant, but this is how I see it, just an opinion.

vfitom

12-02-2006, 08:05 AM

Well said JTH. Sh _ _ does not flow downhill, it goes backwards. The "list" thus cannot be trusted anymore. The muscle car market was exploited. Sorry to see it happen.......

Belair62

12-02-2006, 08:08 AM

Good rant ! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

MikeA

12-02-2006, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The "list" thus cannot be trusted anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not a fair statement. The list is a great starting point and additional documentation should be pursued to ensure the pedigree of the car (and no Ed C's certification is not good enough! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif) I am reasonably certain your opinion of the list would change if you located a car on the list!

KENNY_PASCOE

12-02-2006, 05:15 PM

MIKE A,
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. THE WAY I SEE IT IS THE 37 YENKO NOVAS ARE 396 OR 427 CARS SO THERE IS A 50/50 CHANCE. THE ONLY TRUE WAY TO DOCUMENT IS PAPERTRAIL, OWNER HISTORY OR IN THIS CARS CASE THE ORIGINAL FAMILY SPOKE UP AND CONFIRMED THIS. JUST MY .02 CENTS... KP

olredalert

12-02-2006, 06:22 PM

------I have a question that pertains to the SYC 427 Novas. Why does everyone say that they are brutally fast??? Fast yes, but no faster than a similar Camaro, right???. A Yenko Camaro or a COPO Camaro had the same drivetrain, similar weight, and suspension, and yet these Novas are always touted as being "brutally" fast. The funny part is that even Don seemed to think the same thing if I recall. Im not knocking the cars at all as I think they are the coolest of all Dons masterpieces. I guess Im just confused as usual........Bill S

JTH74

12-02-2006, 06:32 PM

Bill I was referring to how Don Yenko described the 427 Novas when he built them, but when you compare L72 Nova specs to L72 Camaro specs, HP and weight, they should be a even match on paper. The ZL1 Camaro is the most brutal/lethal stock production muscle car ever made besides a Shelby 427 Cobra, here is an interesting fact about the 427 Cobra, it is labeled as the deadliest street car ever as 86% of street accidents were fatal!

Keith Tedford

12-02-2006, 06:57 PM

With a few extra options, a big block Nova or Camaro could actually weigh more than a similar Chevelle with base equipment. The L78s were and still are touted as killer as well. I've had two and even with headers and tuning would be hard pressed to get into the 12s. They can perform but do need help. From my experience the L72 probably did feel brutal compared to the L78. Years ago magazine writers took manufacturers' hype and ran with it. Still fun cars to drive though. The older they get the faster they were. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

A468BU

12-02-2006, 08:12 PM

From what Warren told me when I was at his place, He seemed to think they only converted at most 3 Nova's. He knows for sure there were 2 and possibly a 3rd one.

vfitom

12-02-2006, 09:18 PM

I would swear that I remember seeing a red 69 Nova SYC 427 at Stauffer Chevrolet in Scranton in 1969. Word was out they had 1, and everyone would ride there to peek in the window and whatever. I think it had black stripes and black vinyl top. ??? NOT on the list, although the list is incomplete.

vfitom

12-02-2006, 09:20 PM

What is the status of this 69 Nova now. Is there litigation?

Chevy454

12-02-2006, 09:23 PM

Bill: a Nova is just a *tad* lighter than a comparable Camaro, but it's more about *where* the weight is on a Nova...the longer rear overhang of the Nova helps get it all moving.

69hurstSC

12-04-2006, 04:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The ZL1 Camaro is the most brutal/lethal stock production muscle car ever made besides a Shelby 427 Cobra, here is an interesting fact about the 427 Cobra, it is labeled as the deadliest street car ever as 86% of street accidents were fatal!

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, probally the most debatable statement revolving around musclecars! i'll put that label on a 68 S/S Dart. but thats all for another thread!

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

12-04-2006, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would swear that I remember seeing a red 69 Nova SYC 427 at Stauffer Chevrolet in Scranton in 1969. Word was out they had 1, and everyone would ride there to peek in the window and whatever. I think it had black stripes and black vinyl top. ??? NOT on the list, although the list is incomplete.

[/ QUOTE ]

What makes you think the car you saw at Stauffer is not on the list?

FWIW, it is on the list, it is a 427 conversion, and as of right now is the only car that has sYc paperwork describing it as a 427 - with mag wheels! This car is listed in two sYc bulletins dated mid '70 that was distributed to other dealers to let them know what was still available. The car was eventually sold, and raced, and found in Moscow, PA. It now resides in a collection in the NW - and it was NOT a copo like greg joseph states in all the mag articles.

vfitom

12-05-2006, 12:48 AM

WHICH ONE IS IT ON THE LIST? LAST 6 OF THE VIN? WAS IT RED WITH BLACK VINYL TOP?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

12-05-2006, 01:25 AM

Yep, Garnet red, but I don't think it had a v/t. The VIN# 393985 - which, depending if you go by the vin or body #, could be the first one of the 37. But, we won't go there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'll try to post a pic.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/aacorp/69YenkoNovaSuydam-1.jpg

fpcopo

12-05-2006, 06:24 AM

In response to Keith's last post: When new the 68 Chevelle L78s which I was most familiar with having tuned several that raced at the strip ran well into the 12s when equipped with good headers, at least a 4.10 rear and slicks. The best ones ran 12.60s and most ran 12.70s and 80s. This was at our local strip which had an altitude of 1200 ft. My own 68 had a 350 hp 396 and was stock except for an L78 cam, headers and slicks ran a best of 12.78 @ 109. Rob, I always thought the Novas did NOT hook as good as the Camaros beacause of 3 inches extra wheelbase all of it in the passenger compartment. This seemed to put more weight on the front end and also made a longer moment arm with the extra length to transfer weight to the rear tires. I don't have Excel or I would go to the NHRA site and look up the shipping weight for a 69 L78 Nova and similar Camaro. Do you have Excel? All of their classification guides are in that format. If you know this info please post it. I do know that most of the current A/S NHRA Chevies are Camaros, although the Nova can fit into the class most Novas run B/S.
Although not related to this discussion, all of the good running A/S Cars are 396s but the A/SA cars run 427s. Let me know what you think. Frank Payne

Chevy454

12-05-2006, 06:40 AM

Frank: Camaro is 8.67*375=3251, Nova is 8.74*375=3277...

Bill Pritchard

12-05-2006, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/aacorp/69YenkoNovaSuydam-1.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Love that picture, Marlin http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif That is what I would consider a 'period correct' race Nova http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

12-05-2006, 04:41 PM

Pretty cool eh? Thanks to Kevin Suydam for that one, you don't see very many pictures of '69 Yenko Novas from back in the day, this is one of the best - love the hood scoop!

Do you think there is a yellow yenko camaro just behind the decklid of the Nova??

Salvatore

12-05-2006, 05:07 PM

Frank Payne, In my opinion you are right on. Love the novas but why build a BB nova for NHRA when the camaro is a better choice. ALL (I know a bold statement) BB camaros running in A/S are 375 horse cars. A tad lighter, aluminum heads without a penalty and rev much better than their big brother 427 cars. I don't recall seeing anybody at least in DIV-1 running a 427 in A/S. But....guys experiment all the time in Stock Eliminator. Ed Bednaz runs A or B Stick with his nova in DIV-1. Always a contender but I never saw that car in the nines with the weight out of it. He uses the 396 motor. Very fast, very competitive and a good driver! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif