So, about that rebodied Yenko Deuce.......

[Allen]

In that discussion thread about the '69 Yenko Nova, my attention was caught by the picture of what appears to be someone's Cortez Silver '70 Yenko Deuce Nova with the firewall VIN welded into place. To me, that would indicate the car had its shell / body replaced. If it was my car, and I didn't know about it up front, I'd have been quite pissed to find it out later.

I'm sure this question has been asked many times, but I'm curious - especially regarding a car like that (since I'd love to have a Yenko Deuce). I'm assuming either the original shell was too far gone to repair or someone took the easy way out and did a body swap to make the restoration easier or less expensive.

With that said, how is a car like that now regarded?

I know there is a legal issue about the VIN swap, but what about the car as a whole, considering its rarity?

If one of those "Supercars" had a super rusty shell and was really deteriorated, should the whole car have been scrapped?

Should just the original drivetrain, if it still existed, been used for some other project while the body and title are junked?

There's so much talk lately about a few certain ZL1's, Yenkos, and other rare cars having questionable histories, so let's hear it - what do you do? Throw 'em away? Or replace a shell like you would a fender or quarter or other chunk of sheet-metal and go on with your day and enjoy the ride? What's it really about?

Is the shell swap (or rebody as it's sometimes called) the source of the heartache and problems? Or is the problem if someone didn't disclose the fact that the shell was replaced?

Lots of questions in one post, but that silver Deuce got me to wondering, mainly because I'd love to have one but probably never will because cars like that now are way out of my league.

If I had a real Deuce with the original "factory born with" drivetrain and it was all there with the exception of a shell replacement.... would that take something away from the car or the thrill of driving it? Or is it a value question only, now that the market is super high? That crusty PA yellow Deuce also comes to mind since it supposedly still has the factory motor with it.

Just a few random thoughts. The intent is to spark a real discussion and not some slam-fest directed toward any specific people or certain cars.

[Charley Lillard]

OK...I'll take a shot at this. My understanding is the Silver Yenko Deuce was discovered as a rebody while having the heater core changed. There had been rumors but no proof. Anyone closer to what happened can chime in if they want. The owner then contacted the guy he got it from. Some kind of deal was struck where Gary Holub ended up taking the car in trade. Gary has the car now. Different people have different opinions on rebodied cars. Gary has no problem with them and will be the first to tell you if a car he has is a rebody. I personally would not want to own it. If the orig shell is still out there, with the way Deuce prices have gone up it is probably not too expensive to put all the parts including the vins back on the orig body.

[COPO]

Didn't a rebodied ZL-1 sell at BJ last year for around $400K? That may be an indication of what the market thinks ~50% discount. It seems to be more acceptable with some of the older classics.

[69LM1]

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't a rebodied ZL-1 sell at BJ last year for around $400K? That may be an indication of what the market thinks ~50% discount. It seems to be more acceptable with some of the older classics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds about right to me. 50% off for rebody?


Allen, first, why do you want a Deuce? History or speed? If it's speed (aka fun to drive), find a LT1 and drop it in a nova, do it right, all the stripes and call it a tribute, clone etc. You can then drive it, run the heck out of it, and have fun with it.

Rich

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]

Allen, first, why do you want a Deuce? History or speed? If it's speed (aka fun to drive), find a LT1 and drop it in a nova, do it right, all the stripes and call it a tribute, clone etc. You can then drive it, run the heck out of it, and have fun with it.

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

History.

As you consider my next statement, keep in mind that Novas are my favorite. I appreciate many other fine GM cars, but I've been a Nova fan for a long time.

Unlike the '69 427 COPO Camaro that could be ordered by any dealer with the knowledge (Yenko or otherwise), there doesn't appear to ever have been any other dealers besides Yenko Chevrolet ordering and selling factory LT1 equipped Novas in the United States.

It was only Yenko's special COPO package that created the LT1 Nova, and only a handful were built. There doesn't appear to be any evidence of a person having the ability to walk to any dealer with the right option codes and coming out with an order for a non-Yenko Nova with an LT1 and 4.10 gears.

I like the look of the unique add-on equipment (hood tach and stripes), bare interior, rare factory-installed drivetrain - basically the whole package deal that was created by Yenko. He had a vision, found a way to get it done, and the result speaks for itself as a cool little car.

So, the reason is..... history. I appreciate it for what it is.

If I were to put together an LT1, 4-speed, 4.10 equipped Nova to only abuse and have fun with, I wouldn't go for the Yenko stripes and emblems. I wouldn't want it to be a clone or tribute to anything.... it would just be a fun ride.

For appreciation of the history, I'd want a real one... with the real VIN... factory original matching drivetrain.... complete and correct interior and appearance.

My original question arose from all of that. If that silver Deuce had its body shell replaced, but is the correct VIN and assuming it has the factory original drivetrain (I don't know if it does or not. Does anyone else know?), would those few numbers on the firewall make a significant difference in appreciation for the car, historical significance, and the fun in driving?

[L78steve]

IMO,That car no longer exists.Only its parts.The original body is the main piece of the car when its gone its gone.

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO,That car no longer exists.Only its parts.The original body is the main piece of the car when its gone its gone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Define original! The whole body, the firewall, etc.?

Any panel that could have been replaced through GM parts
should still make a car original. About the only part on
my Camaro that survived was the firewall. Does that make
my car non-original?

I'm willing to bet that there are more re-bodied cars out
there than we know about ( now )... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO,That car no longer exists.Only its parts.The original body is the main piece of the car when its gone its gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with a Yenko Deuce, it was the drivetrain that made it special, not the body. Every Nova got a shell. They all didn't get LT1's and special 4.10 geared rear end.

[rich p]

Its like taking ALL the body parts out of a human(Mr Smith) and putting in another donor body. Would you still call the new donor body Mr Smith? NO

Car flips overend 10 times(destroyed)and you put a 6 cyl car next to it and take the drivetrain out and swap into the 6 banger. Is that still worth ALL the money? Its worth a clone price..

The guy who bought the ZL1 at BJ's didnt know it was a rebody untill I told him a few months ago and he had NO clue.He NO longer wants this car but cant get his money back from a previous auction.(car bombed)

It was OK when they were trading hands around 100K but a few owners down the road and 1 million dollars later(Houston we have a PROBLEM)

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Its like taking ALL the body parts out of a human(Mr Smith) and putting in another donor body. Would you still call the new donor body Mr Smith? NO



[/ QUOTE ]

We're talking about a machine... a car... not a living breathing creature (a person) with a unique soul and personality. I've heard that analogy before, but could never see the relationship.

[COPO]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who bought the ZL1 at BJ's didnt know it was a rebody until I told him a few months ago and he had NO clue.He NO longer wants this car but cant get his money back from a previous auction.(car bombed)[quote



If a ZL-1 sells for ~50% of the market price in a public auction, how on earth could a reasonable person not think something was up? It's a shame the buyer did not realize until after the fact.

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy who bought the ZL1 at BJ's didnt know it was a rebody until I told him a few months ago and he had NO clue.He NO longer wants this car but cant get his money back from a previous auction.(car bombed)[quote



If a ZL-1 sells for ~50% of the market price in a public auction, how on earth could a reasonable person not think something was up? It's a shame the buyer did not realize until after the fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a simple question to answer. Everybody wants to get
something for nothing ( or a great muscle car cheap ). When
then find out it's not the steal they thought it was, they
want out. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[69LM1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO,That car no longer exists.Only its parts.The original body is the main piece of the car when its gone its gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

But with a Yenko Deuce, it was the drivetrain that made it special, not the body. Every Nova got a shell. They all didn't get LT1's and special 4.10 geared rear end.

[/ QUOTE ]


The point I have been making for months now! I agree 100%.

Rich

[69LM1]

[ QUOTE ]
Its like taking ALL the body parts out of a human(Mr Smith) and putting in another donor body. Would you still call the new donor body Mr Smith? NO

Car flips overend 10 times(destroyed)and you put a 6 cyl car next to it and take the drivetrain out and swap into the 6 banger. Is that still worth ALL the money? Its worth a clone price..

[/ QUOTE ]

Certinly more than a clone, although not what a original body matching (Hey, New Term!) mighe be. In the scenerio above, what about a new body, but the "brain/Soul" transferred to that new body? ie Driveline.

Rich

[LS6 RAT]

But with a Yenko Deuce, it was the drivetrain that made it special, not the body. Every Nova got a shell. They all didn't get LT1's and special 4.10 geared rear end.

[/ QUOTE ]


Now this discussion is getting interesting! There definitely seems to be a descrepancy on value. A ZL-1 camaro has a unique engine, special trans (M22) and a special rear HD assembly. So if a documented ZL-1 is missing its original drivetrain but has a correct(restored) drivetrain is the value diminished as much as a ZL-1
documented with original (born with drivetrain) but replaced body.

[rich p]

[So if a documented ZL-1 is missing its original drivetrain but has a correct(restored) drivetrain is the value diminished as much as a ZL-1
documented with original (born with drivetrain) but replaced body.]

So would you drive the New body car like you stole it ??
Would you do the same thing to a REAL Zl-1 with a replacement motor??

I would FOG that new body car http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[L78steve]

Anyone can put an LT1 and 4.10 gears in a Nova.Now you have what made the deuce special.Or would you rather have it with the original body and the VIN that came with it?Its the status.

[69LM1]

[ QUOTE ]
Its the status.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[L78steve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO,That car no longer exists.Only its parts.The original body is the main piece of the car when its gone its gone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Define original! The whole body, the firewall, etc.?

Any panel that could have been replaced through GM parts
should still make a car original. About the only part on
my Camaro that survived was the firewall. Does that make
my car non-original?

I'm willing to bet that there are more re-bodied cars out
there than we know about ( now )... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

[L78steve]

Original is original.If you have a original car with replaced quarter panels then its all original except the quarter panels.

[rich p]

Its your 401K

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
Its your 401K

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif