69 Z on e-bay

[Tommy_Mathison]

69 Z/28 on e-bay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-1969-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-Rally-Sport_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6161QQihZ016QQite mZ260058824530QQrdZ1)
I think "990 point plus" is pushing it considering the incorrectly painted stripes, wheels and door latches. Not to mention the incorrect leaf springs, heater hoses and radiator cap. What are your thoughts on this car? $115,000?

[Don_Lightfoot]

Looks like a very nice car. I won't comment on correctness and will let the Z gurus on here do that. One thing though is "What's with the muffler?"

A personal pet peeve of mine is tires. I see so many "mucho dineros" restorations done on 69 Camaros and 69 Chevelles but they do not take a little time to investigate the proper tires.

This thing can glady sit in my garage if somebody gives it to me for Christmas.

[KENNY_PASCOE]

WHOLE LOT OF HAPPY PAINT MARKINGS EVERYWHERE http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif KP

[Hotrodpaul]

A $115,000 990 point car and no pictures of the trim tag, block, trans, and rear end stampings? No Doc's either? I don't get it.

Paul

[firstgenaddict]

For 115k you should not be able to make a list of things that need to be corrected... JMHO

[COPO427]

You can thank Barrett Jackson for the $115,000 price tag. Too many people now think their #2,#3 cars are worth 3x's what it's really worth.

[Bill Pritchard]

Personally, I'm happy to see that it's been "Concouse Restored" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif And you better be prepared to take some heat when you make claims like "the absolute best"....those are some large shoes to fill http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I like the rear springs the best http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[47Hammer]

What's wrong with the wheels and rear springs? Are they not multileaf? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gifJust want to learn more. Very nice car.

[Steve Shauger]

They are aftermarket, not original type or correct reproduction.

[quick-bowtie]

115k seems pretty steep for a Z with no Xram or JL8, but that car looks extremely nice and even through there are a couple simple easy fix mistakes, I sure dont have the balls to say anything negitive about it even if the guy does claim its a killer car.. This stuff is getting old.. correct this or correct that..the old saying if you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything at all needs to start being used. We need a new section on here titled "tell me whats wrong or beat my car up".. from talking to a few site members that is why its hard getting new cars for members rides know one wants to hear it or defend there cars anymore.. Personally Id love to have the Orange car in my garage. Sorry just getting aload off my chest I use to love reading on the site and learning just wish it could be a positive thing.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The old addage is also true: if it's an easy fix, then get to work!! Also, if someone is going to claim that a given car is a 990 pt car, then dammit, the car should be able to back up the statement! It gets old hearing the claims that a car is the best of the best, when it turns out being whipped cream on poop!

Bottom line, if you are selling a car, you need to take the good comments with the bad - and maybe fix a few items or learn a thing or two!

[quick-bowtie]

Its not my car, and I wouldnt make comments I couldnt back up..but what if the guy had some pricey shop restore the car and they told him what it supposly was?? Then to come to find out your car is getting beat up? Id sure feel like poop. With all the b.s. judging and friends helping friends** maybe it did score that at some show.. I know Ive seen cars with sheets saying they were 995 point cars and numbers close to that and there is no way possibly and I know no where near what a group of judges should.. Sometimes I think its more about who you know than actually what you have. JMO. Again not trying to piss anyone off Id just like to see positive things. (its getting to darn cold up here and that gets me in a negitive mood so I need something to lift my spirits)

[92646]

All this attention to detail and no wood grain on the dash with a houndstooth interior?
Mark Sheppard

[Steve Shauger]

I understand both sides, but this site is a resource for gaining knowledge and helping other enthusiast. I would not make a list of issues that the car has and post them (and yes it does), however if someone asks specific questions regarding correctness or the accuracy of a component or restoration, I will answer all the question I can. The statements he makes in his ad more then welcomes scrutiny...IMHO

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You make good points. IMHO, the only score to brag about is when it's been judged by a team of judges at a real event - sort of like the Carlisle Camaro guys. I agree some owners get taken by second rate resto shops, but they will learn quick when they put it up for sale - hard lesson, but.... That's why the rear springs got me, they are so easy to install the correct ones - which are being repro'd now. It's bad when a resto shop can't even figure out the difference between a $89 set of springs vs. the originals. Somebody put a 'caution fan' sticker on this one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Xplantdad]

Andy...anyone talks 'smack' about a members rides car and I'll hurt 'em...bad! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[firstgenaddict]

[ QUOTE ]
The old addage is also true: if it's an easy fix, then get to work!! Also, if someone is going to claim that a given car is a 990 pt car, then dammit, the car should be able to back up the statement! It gets old hearing the claims that a car is the best of the best, when it turns out being whipped cream on poop!

Bottom line, if you are selling a car, you need to take the good comments with the bad - and maybe fix a few items or learn a thing or two!

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif


Exactly... don't make the claims if you don't want to take the heat.

I do not recall anyone nit picking a car in the members rides section. I believe that everyone is very non critical of those cars.

It is the for sale cars that are picked apart... as well they should be... I beleive that there are quite a few people who post cars for sale so they will be picked apart, they rely on others for the knowledge they lack.

James

[Tommy_Mathison]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not my car, and I wouldnt make comments I couldnt back up..

[/ QUOTE ]
I can back up everything I said and I can go on... It has the guage package, where's the clock? Hounds tooth but no woodgrain dash? Too many question marks to be asking $115,000. Is that car a 990 point car? No. Does the seller claim it would be? Yes. I believe I every right to question this one. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Tommy Mathison

[quick-bowtie]

Wasnt talking about you..settle down turbo!! I was stating I wouldnt make comments like that being the seller unless I could back it up. Question what ever you want I was just stating this stuff is getting old.. (maybe I need to just play with Pro-Touring Cars it seems everyone on those sites enjoys cars and people in general) Just about every guy on here (SYC) is knowledegable on Camaros/Chevrolets to a degree, so we're not saving each other from buying a mistake most would see 30k over priced to start with and most are able to pick the car apart too but what does that accomplish? You could find thousands of cars on ebay with BS or misleading ads nothing new there. Again sorry for wanting cars to appreciated just trying to brighten the world one car guy at a time..lol

[Salvatore]

[ QUOTE ]
WHOLE LOT OF HAPPY PAINT MARKINGS EVERYWHERE http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif KP

[/ QUOTE ]Taken the words rite out of my mouth. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[92646]

Ok I may be asking the wrong questions but I have to know. In the question and answer section of the auction. The seller states that it has 713 as the interior trim code on the trim tag. Then he comments that the car never had a rosewood dash or a clock. Has anybody ever seen a real camaro with deluxe interior without a wood grain dash or a console gauge car without a clock. I am confused because I could not get offers for half his asking price for my camaro when I tried to sell it. Can somebody tell me are the crayon marks the secret? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
Mark Sheppard

[Steve Shauger]

Deluxe interior ALWAYS included a full rosewood dash. The clock was included with U17 special instrumentation (gauge package). Z28's and SS did not get pin stripes.

[69motion]

Big fishing trip wants to drive up prices my crossram jl8 isnt perfect either but id rather have that in my garage and $35000 in the bank jeff

[Tommy_Mathison]

They could have painted the stripes on the trunk correctly also. Alot of time was put into this car but NO research. If you want to claim to have a car that is a "990 point show car", do your homework first.

[mockingbird812]

Apparently you guys didn't get the memo..... new judging scale (at least at the event he went to). The ad should read "990 out of <font color="orange">2000 </font> "! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[quick-bowtie]

Mark,

Yes the crayons make the differance..lol they look pretty to the guys that buy for a piece of clean art..lol

I honestly bet you could take the same car restored by the same guy do one up with all the markings and fancy stuff then take the same car and get rid of the markings it would do less at a sale like Barrett.. To the guy int he know probably NOT but to the guy buying bragging rights 100%.

As for this car being 990 points I bet to the average car guy theyd think its the best in the world. heck 5 years ago I probably would have thought that..lol

[olredalert]

------For education purposes only could someone tell me why the "door-latches" were commented on??? I can barely see them in the pics.......Bill S

[Steve Shauger]

The latch assembly and striker are installed prior to painting, and therefore should be body color.

[olredalert]

-----Steve, Thanks for the quick comeback! I was thinking door-handles for some reason........Bill S

[ZL1mike]

my 2 cents...... I would rather have your car Mark if I was looking for another 69 Camaro .......

mike



[ QUOTE ]
Ok I may be asking the wrong questions but I have to know. In the question and answer section of the auction. The seller states that it has 713 as the interior trim code on the trim tag. Then he comments that the car never had a rosewood dash or a clock. Has anybody ever seen a real camaro with deluxe interior without a wood grain dash or a console gauge car without a clock. I am confused because I could not get offers for half his asking price for my camaro when I tried to sell it. Can somebody tell me are the crayon marks the secret? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif
Mark Sheppard

[/ QUOTE ]

[Lynn]

If one is claiming the car is "one of the best" and "ready for judging at a national level" it opens the door for scrutiny in my opinion.

Any opinions on the originality of the POP?

[Steve Shauger]

I would like to qualify what I stated regarding the painted latches and strikers. The Norwood built camaros were painted (which this car is), however I believe LA built camaros were not.
Lynn:
Not sure about the POP (I would need some better pictures), but the guy in Canada selling fake documents on ebay know how to age W/S and Buildsheets and POP's, which now makes me skeptical when I see them.

[Rick H]

Steve,
I think you have it backwards unless it was different in 1969. My 67 Norwood Camaro does not have painted latch screws or strikers and I have pictures of an original paint LA built Camaro that Kevin Kolenbach bought that shows painted screws. I'll attach a pic of the LA door. The car was so original I took a lot of pictures.

My car was original paint when I bought it.

As for the POP shown in the auction, it looks suspicious to me. I have seen a lot of these lately were all the stains or rust are located on the numbers and letters. I have an original POP with my car and it is has absolutely no stains what so ever.

Rick H.

[Charley Lillard]

My late 69 Norwood L89 with orig paint in the door jambs. http://www.yenko.net/attachments/237431-IMG_2275%5B1%5D.jpg

[Rick H]

Interesting.
Attached is 67 Norwood car.

Rick H.

[Steve Shauger]

Attached are a couple pics of my 1969 L34 survivor built 9B of 68 at the norwood plant. I have never seen norwood built 69 camaro with unpainted door latches and strikers. The La plant assembly process differed slightly from that at norwood. Also year to year there were variations.

[Steve Shauger]

The striker.

[Tommy_Mathison]

Steve, maybe you were thinking of the trunk striker. Im certain on Norwood cars they were installed before paint but LA cars had them installed after paint.

Tommy Mathison.

[Tommy_Mathison]

[ QUOTE ]
-----Steve, Thanks for the quick comeback! I was thinking door-handles for some reason........Bill S

[/ QUOTE ]
It would not surprise me if the door handles were also the incorrect (NOS) version.

Tommy Mathison

[Steve Shauger]

Tommy, that was my point (look at the pics I posted,)norwood cars had the latches and strikers painted (trunk lid strikers also) and LA cars did not.
Rick H.
I just reviewed a video of my orig paint 67 rs/ss L78 norwood built 7B of 67 and the latch, screws and strikers are painted.

[CamarosRus]

Regarding painted door latches.....I'm in the process of replacing a reskinned door with a good Original on my 69. I had the original, media blasted after removing ALL the guts. What would the professional restorers apply to the zinc plated latch assembly in the way of grease/cosmoline to replicate what the factory evidently did.
On any of the Original paint cars, you can almost always see where paint has been worn/washed away as it was over the factory coating of ????????
Any body care to share there thoughts ???????

[firstgenaddict]

This was discussed very recently on either the CRG site or Camaros.net and it was stated that the Norwood body shells had deck lids with strikers and latch assembly &amp; doors with latch assembly and door strikers installed before paint.
Van Nuys was different because the bodies were built up in the Chevrolet Assembly plant not a Fisher Body plant as was the case in Norwood.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick H.
I just reviewed a video of my orig paint 67 rs/ss L78 norwood built 7B of 67 and the latch, screws and strikers are painted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I can tell you with 100% certainty that the latch screws and striker on my 1967 03D Norwood car were not painted. Since it was mentioned, my deck lid latch is painted body color. And I just reviewed an original paint LA built 67 RS/SS and the deck lid latch was unpainted.

Don't know. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Rick H.

[Tommy_Mathison]

Sold for $115,000

[47Hammer]

STRONG! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[quick-bowtie]

Maybe.. but with ebay and the games who really knows if it sold? If it didnt sell Id like to find the buyer Ive got a shed full of cars he car buy at way over retail!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rick H.
I just reviewed a video of my orig paint 67 rs/ss L78 norwood built 7B of 67 and the latch, screws and strikers are painted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I can tell you with 100% certainty that the latch screws and striker on my 1967 03D Norwood car were not painted. Since it was mentioned, my deck lid latch is painted body color. And I just reviewed an original paint LA built 67 RS/SS and the deck lid latch was unpainted.

Don't know. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Rick H.

[/ QUOTE ]

Replaced under warranty? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[92646]

I guess it did not sell because its back on e-bay.
Mark Sheppard

[Stuart Adams]

Jerry M. told me he was going to inspect that car last week prior to money changing hands, I guess we know the results.