Volo museum honest?

[69motion]

Check out ebay add #170059798140 ls6 chevelle i talked to brian 2 build sheet 100 percent # match? any comments

[mockingbird812]

Can't tell you about their voractiy, but here you go...

Volo LS6 eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fs earch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fcgiurl %3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Fws%252F%26f kr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D170059798140%26cate gory0%3D%26submitSearch%3DSearch%26fvi%3D1&item=17 0059798140)

[kwhizz]

Maybe Charley will chime in..........Just be Careful...

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[69motion]

i talked to brian today i asked about the car he told me a story on how the car has spent its whole life in ohio the guy he got it from owned it for years he was a little rude (surprising) ill keep u posted

[Belair62]

I don't think they are actually dishonest at all. I think they take what the owner tells them and run with it. They have posted the buildsheet so maybe Rick or Rick can comment on the quality of it.

[Charley Lillard]

I had experience with Jay at Volo a few years ago. He had called me because Ron Norman told him I was looking for a LS6 convert. He had a nice frame off one that the owner had died. While waiting to get a pic of the protecto-plate from him I checked around and found out it was a complete fake built by a guy in Wisconsin ? He built it for the guy that died and was sent there by Volo. I think the price at that time was about 130K so it has been a couple years but it was a lesson learned for me.

[Stuart Adams]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif That not cool.

[69motion]

Thanks for the imput guys im just looking for brian to up date his ebay add stateing the car is 100 percent orig this is when he got a little rude I nicely told him he had his facts a little wrong and that the person who sold it to him wasnt 100 percent truthful i just dont want the knew owner to have a bad holiday yes i did own this car yes it has 2 correct build sheets yes i still have the 3rd build sheet yes i sold it as a rolling chassy

[70 Forest Green Zee]

I've seen this car and it looks legit to me. I've also met both Brian and Jay, and they seem to be ok guys. This is a very nice car and I think it is a real born LS6 however I have heard stories that Volo has clowned GTO's out of Lemans' and sold them for top money over the years. I don't think that is the case here though. Darren X33 bought a car from out there I think, maybe he has an opinion to offer.

[427king]

Are MVC and VOLO the same people?

[rich p]

I always thought DEALERS thrived on being honesty. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[camaromb]

Honestly I thought dealers thrived on being dealers!

The build sheet by the way is identical to my Atlanta car. Mine has a job sequence number in the upper left that this one lacks. Perhaps it was added later during the year. Mine is June built.
Mark

[69motion]

sorry for the spelling

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
Darren X33 bought a car from out there I think, maybe he has an opinion to offer.

[/ QUOTE ]
While my car was indeed a resident at Volo for a while. I did not purchase the car from them. The car was sitting there on consignment. After a while it was removed from there. Shortly after I bought it directly from the owner.

[Mr70]

The buildsheet(s) looks fine to me.
Without going into cryptic detail,it is typical for one made in that exact time frame.
The engine has some incorrect parts on it like a 1967-69 ONLY drivers side exhaust manifold,small block Power steering reservoir,Black Alt. fan as well as other incorrect engine components.Those can all be easily corrected but I would think he should note that in the description.
Volo has had their ups & downs since their sons took over,but they are learning and so are we.

[69motion]

The build sheets are real ive had them in my hands i took the one of the door panel my self it is a legit documented ls6 car

[Johnny Horsepower]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the imput guys im just looking for brian to up date his ebay add stateing the car is 100 percent orig this is when he got a little rude I nicely told him he had his facts a little wrong and that the person who sold it to him wasnt 100 percent truthful i just dont want the knew owner to have a bad holiday yes i did own this car yes it has 2 correct build sheets yes i still have the 3rd build sheet yes i sold it as a rolling chassy

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you sold it, it did not have a motor let alone its original one?

[Rixls6]

As far as the gold LS6 goes, I agree with Mr70.

As far as Volo's honesty, yes they are learning, hopefully they are unwittingly giving any of the false info.

I've had a few experiences with them.

They did try to sell me an LS6 convertible about 15 years ago that was what I believed a phony. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

This was still when the dad was running the place.
He sat and talked with me in his office, then proceeded to give me a copy of the "Original buildsheet".

I took it home and knew that it wasn't right, IMO. See copy of that sheet below.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/Rixls6/70LS6convertfakebuildsheet475.jpg

Make your own conclusions. Those who know the 70 buildsheets will see what I mean.

They also charged me for fixing the A/C on my clone 70 ss convert they were selling on consignment, to the tune of $500, without asking me about it. I was pretty ticked off about that one. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

They do sell many beautiful legit cars, but like anywhere else, let the "Buyer Beware!"

[69motion]

i sold the car with orig 331 rear orig body rusty fenders ect no rug orig trany no motor orig long gone yrs ago i tried to find it blown up orig shifter rims glass doors hood wiring

[mockingbird812]

Very illuminating discussion. But, this just gets my goat. I have watched Volo for years and have been entertained by their collection of sharp looking cars. I have never dealt with them, but will give a dealer the benefit of the doubt if I have no reason to distrust. I do, however, trust the input of the folks on this forum who HAVE done business with them. The ad for this car walks a very fine line with carefully chosen words and phrases. In a court of law they would probably hold up. To the unsuspecting or uninitiated someone may think they are getting an original engine...

YOU WANT MATCHING NUMBERS, THIS CAR HAS THEM.

I personally do not care for this type of rhetoric now knowing that the original engine is not in the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Knowing the above info I would not be comfortable doing business with these folks. They may be "learning", but it is at the expense of customer's hard earned wages. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif When will they learn that this will only come back to bite them? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[rich p]

These type of cars are killing the market !!
More of these then GOOD quality cars http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[70 Forest Green Zee]

sorry Darren....I know your car was there but I didn't know for sure if you dealt with them directly. Never the less I thought that you may have an opinion one way or the other on how the Grams bros. do business and thier integrity. I hope you are not offended.

[DarrenX33]

Yep, I'm furious! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[69motion]

I didnt mean to start an uproar ive work hard for every dollar every car i own or restore is a sense of pride the only reason i still dont own this piece of history is because i wanted a more complete ls6 with orig motor ect people that misrepresent cars are no better than a bank robbers there just stealing legaly

[Charley Lillard]

Wouldn't that 3rd build sheet be better off with the car ?

[69motion]

i told brian to give the new owner my info and i would make sure the car got it back i dont think he will though idont think he wants the new owner knowing the info i have

[427king]

Im not referring to this car being discussed in any way when i say this,but has anyone ever noticed its much easier to make a claim you know a car is fake than to claim you know the car is real???? Everyone wants all kind of proof from a seller that his car is real yet no one asks for proof when someone else says its being misrepresented,just a simple statement that the car wasnt like that when you owned it statement is good enough?.. If someone sells a car and then regrets selling it,they can easily say the car wasnt real just out of spite and jealousy that the new owner made 5 times as much money.

[Belair62]

Very true...

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
Very illuminating discussion. But, this just gets my goat. I have watched Volo for years and have been entertained by their collection of sharp looking cars. I have never dealt with them, but will give a dealer the benefit of the doubt if I have no reason to distrust. I do, however, trust the input of the folks on this forum who HAVE done business with them. The ad for this car walks a very fine line with carefully chosen words and phrases. In a court of law they would probably hold up. To the unsuspecting or uninitiated someone may think they are getting an original engine...

YOU WANT MATCHING NUMBERS, THIS CAR HAS THEM.

I personally do not care for this type of rhetoric now knowing that the original engine is not in the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Knowing the above info I would not be comfortable doing business with these folks. They may be "learning", but it is at the expense of customer's hard earned wages. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif When will they learn that this will only come back to bite them? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how you could give most dealers the benefit of doubt when describing with conviction merchandise they have relatively little initmacy with.This is not to say there aren't knowlegable high end brokers that specialize in rare cars-but clearly this place is a mouse house,and "matching #'s u got em" is another classic example of a semantic grey area being passionately discussed on another thread here.There are still plenty of uncomproming edumacated collectors that guarantee the no excuses cars will continue to be en vouge and appreciate in the midst of a percieved soft/declining market,jmo

[mockingbird812]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Very illuminating discussion. But, this just gets my goat. I have watched Volo for years and have been entertained by their collection of sharp looking cars. I have never dealt with them, but will give a dealer the benefit of the doubt if I have no reason to distrust. I do, however, trust the input of the folks on this forum who HAVE done business with them. The ad for this car walks a very fine line with carefully chosen words and phrases. In a court of law they would probably hold up. To the unsuspecting or uninitiated someone may think they are getting an original engine...

YOU WANT MATCHING NUMBERS, THIS CAR HAS THEM.

I personally do not care for this type of rhetoric now knowing that the original engine is not in the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Knowing the above info I would not be comfortable doing business with these folks. They may be "learning", but it is at the expense of customer's hard earned wages. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif When will they learn that this will only come back to bite them? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="blue"> I don't see how you could give most dealers the benefit of doubt </font> when describing with conviction merchandise they have relatively little initmacy with.This is not to say there aren't knowlegable high end brokers that specialize in rare cars-but clearly this place is a mouse house,and "matching #'s u got em" is another classic example of a semantic grey area being passionately discussed on another thread here.There are still plenty of uncomproming edumacated collectors that guarantee the no excuses cars will continue to be en vouge and appreciate in the midst of a percieved soft/declining market,jmo

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say it was easy. I do TRY though. Any human interaction (boy its getting deep in here) has continuums of performance, decency, honesty, (substitute your descriptive term here), etc. I will say that most dealers that I have dealt with leave me with less than stellar impressions of their honesty/decency. Occasionally you stumble across an individual who is toward the other end of the spectrum. Best example that comes to mind is Colin of Colin's Classic Automobiles. So interactions with a fellow like Colin gives me a glimmer of hope that you can be in this business/hobby and be upstanding. Who knows, maybe complete disclosure will catch on! It could happen. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[69motion]

Chuck i know u dont mean this car u know i owned it u know im telling the truth u know where i bought it and who i sold it to wana see the build sheet? jeff

[69motion]

Let me clear this up as a enthusiasts how can u not like the cars coming out of volo. but there is so many fakes out there real good ones that its getting harder to tell my only problem is i presented brian with proof and a chance to do the right thing and he hasnt

[x Baldwin Motion]

"will give a dealer the benefit of the doubt".....on EBAY ??
when spending six figure$$$!!?

native new yorker, born sceptic
I doubt everything - why?
because I used to sell used cars. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I'm not that person anymore but there are many out there.

Chris http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[ANDY M]

Chris, do you broker real estate now? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
I understand that there's a certain NY landmark that is up for sale, one of the bridges from Brooklyn to Manhattan? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gifhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[427king]

I stated i didnt mean this particular car in my post. I know the car better than you do,i advertised it for sale in 2004 and inspected it many times as it was 5 miles down the road from me,and came close many many times to owning it.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Chris, do you broker real estate now? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif
I understand that there's a certain NY landmark that is up for sale, one of the bridges from Brooklyn to Manhattan? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gifhttp://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, I'll PM you where to send the money orders http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Rainer]

[ QUOTE ]
Very illuminating discussion. But, this just gets my goat. I have watched Volo for years and have been entertained by their collection of sharp looking cars. I have never dealt with them, but will give a dealer the benefit of the doubt if I have no reason to distrust. I do, however, trust the input of the folks on this forum who HAVE done business with them. The ad for this car walks a very fine line with carefully chosen words and phrases. In a court of law they would probably hold up. To the unsuspecting or uninitiated someone may think they are getting an original engine...

YOU WANT MATCHING NUMBERS, THIS CAR HAS THEM.

I personally do not care for this type of rhetoric now knowing that the original engine is not in the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Knowing the above info I would not be comfortable doing business with these folks. They may be "learning", but it is at the expense of customer's hard earned wages. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif When will they learn that this will only come back to bite them? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a case of wordsmithing - the car is being represented as having a numbers-matching engine. If you click on the link for the 200 photos they have pics of the front engine pad, which clearly shows the last 6 digits of the car's VIN. However, 69motion noted that the original motor was long gone when he sold it.

So, this 1970 Chevelle SS454 LS6 vin# 136370A130493 is a real LS6 car that now has a fake, restamped, numbers-matching engine that was installed as part of the restoration. Can there be a more clear case of fraud? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[69motion]

rainer you are correct im with u 100 percent

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]

This is not a case of wordsmithing - the car is being represented as having a numbers-matching engine. If you click on the link for the 200 photos they have pics of the front engine pad, which clearly shows the last 6 digits of the car's VIN. However, 69motion noted that the original motor was long gone when he sold it.

So, this 1970 Chevelle SS454 LS6 vin# 136370A130493 is a real LS6 car that now has a fake, restamped, numbers-matching engine that was installed as part of the restoration. Can there be a more clear case of fraud? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How can we sit back and watch someone lose 50k+ when you know something about a certain car? Kudos to Jeff for coming forward and stating that the car did not have it's original engine when he sold it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Potential buyers are now more educated for it. If someone is still willing to buy it, that's their decision but at least they know the truth before spending hard earned bucks. It is sites like this which will ultimately be responsible for keeping sellers in check and being honest.

The reason that some of these dealers have been getting away with stuff in the past is because people who knew the truth about certain cars, kept their mouths shut because they figured "Hey, not my business".

Fraud is everyone's business.......

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is not a case of wordsmithing - the car is being represented as having a numbers-matching engine. If you click on the link for the 200 photos they have pics of the front engine pad, which clearly shows the last 6 digits of the car's VIN. However, 69motion noted that the original motor was long gone when he sold it.

So, this 1970 Chevelle SS454 LS6 vin# 136370A130493 is a real LS6 car that now has a fake, restamped, numbers-matching engine that was installed as part of the restoration. Can there be a more clear case of fraud? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How can we sit back and watch someone lose 50k+ when you know something about a certain car? Kudos to Jeff for coming forward and stating that the car did not have it's original engine when he sold it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif Potential buyers are now more educated for it. If someone is still willing to buy it, that's their decision but at least they know the truth before spending hard earned bucks. It is sites like this which will ultimately be responsible for keeping sellers in check and being honest.

The reason that some of these dealers have been getting away with stuff in the past is because people who knew the truth about certain cars, kept their mouths shut because they figured "Hey, not my business".

Fraud is everyone's business.......

[/ QUOTE ]


What he "Said" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.volocars.com/showroom/showroo...ce=&amp;eprice= (http://www.volocars.com/showroom/showroom.php?nhs=7&amp;make=CHEVROLET&amp;show=&amp;model=&amp;eye ar=&amp;syear=&amp;sprice=&amp;eprice=)
aparently, weeks after being notified, they are still claiming a "numbers matching" car on their website.
"numbers matching" used to mean something (original equipment). They should reword the add to state the facts, not disguise them. One will only assume they are playing these games with ALL the cars they sell. I'll buy elsewhere. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

IMHO -Chris http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

look up counterfeit, insincere, forged, in dictionary.

[chevelleheart]

I Have so much respect for guys that tell you right up front when a car has a NOM and don't play the game. In Fact it's not a game anymore as so much $$$ is involved. Actually like X Baldwin Motion said, "look up Counterfeit, insincere, forged" also FRAUD would be another word.There are more number matching BB 69 and 70 Chevy's running around now then there were in Janaury 1st of 1972 !!!Everybody on this site that knows for a fact that original engines, drivetrains etc are long gone should pipe up when they see fraud going on. Hopefully as one other member siad on the discussion on ZL #66 , people don't "dis" cars cause they missed getting them themselves or just plain old sour grapes. But in my opinion this is a very valuable website and any and all knowledge about these cars is and should be appreciated, although some people may not want to hear the truth???

[jannes_z-28]

This car has ended up over here, came in here in May this year.

It looks very good and has only 380 miles on the odometer, that would probably be since the restoration.

I took some pictures of it this week for an article.

[black69]

I have no issue with volocars. They generally just remarket what a consigner gives them to work with. You own a car, and tell them its numbers matching, I think they will market that way. I don't think they own the cars they are selling on ebay.

To me, numbers matching does not mean original engine. Buyer beware. Needs definite research to confirm original or not.

They have a very cool once a year deal, where they let folks market and sell their car, for free, on a saturday. I bought my 67 hemi gtx from a private owner there too, at that venue. I give them a lot of credit for hosting something like this (for free).

I give them a thumbs up, but you have to do your own homework with a personal inspection, with any car as expensive as that LS6 chevelle. I don't regard the owners as guys to authenticate cars. I bet they did not own that chevelle.

[mmcporter]

No matter who the seller is on these cars, it's always a case of &quot;caveat emptor&quot;. Sometimes you have an honest seller who did a half-a$$ed due diligence or simply made a mistake and is selling a car that isnt &quot;right&quot;. It happens. Always do your homework and bring someone else along who isnt emotionally into the deal....