DANGER BE Careful Using Parts Washers

[3macs1]

I have hesitated about posting this for months but after talking to now to eight mechanics including myself all under the age of 55 (36-55) battling rare endocrine types of cancer I have to. If this breaks any board rules I am sorry. Please understand I am not taking any position on this other than to make you aware of the potential.
Some history at age 43 dispite living a very healthy life style and no history of family cancer I was DX overnight with a rare form of pancreas cancer. I would not accept it and wanted to find out what would cause this with the experts telling me usually exposure to chrorinated hydrocarbons. I knew about Pahs, heavy metals, etc but what are these.
Then I discovered through a CAT mechanic who is also battling cancer parts washer solvents are full of them.
Sure enough like probally most of you I spent probally 5 years in a service station up to my elbows in this stuff not to mention I still have one home in the garage. It would get on my clothes also which I would just wash in the family washer. If you go to the site and check the MSDS sheet which I may add are never on the cans clearly state in the state of cal these chemicals are known to cause cancer yet it is still being sold today with all of us cleaning our parts with what we beleive is a safe product.This is just one manufacturer the other use similiar compositions.Lets be honest how many of us put on protective clothing and gloves prior to cleaning that part.
Please read this link and think twice when using parts washers. I will never prove which is not my intent that this caused my cancer but it did not help.If this post prevents one person from cancer it was worth it.If you open your drum and the solvent is greenish it is definately reused 105, clear could be virgin 105. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif
http://www.toxictorts.com/safety-kleen-lawsuit.shtml
http://www.safety-kleen.com/MSDS/82310rev10-21-05.pdf

[musclecarz]

Sorry to hear that Joe, Cancer is a cruel condition with very few answers, I am also a auto mechanic and started using rubber gloves about 6 years ago, I wish I had used them my whole life, I am 41 now , I believe everyone thinks their invincible untill around 35 years of age, Cleaners are the worst in my opinion. In our field they are stronger than the average person off the street can purchace without jumping through some hoops. Brake clean, Carb clean, stripper chemicals, all bad news when they touch your skin, your body can only rid you of harmful chemicals effectivly for so long. In my home town there is another auto repair shop owned by a guy I went to school with, 43 years old and a fellow gearhead , 4 months ago he also was diagnosed with Pancreatic cancer out of no where.. Before now I didn't make a connection to the profession, Real life concern that should be considered by all that dable in any part of this hobby that will put you at risk, Not a pleasent topic,not all want to think about their past ill handlings of what are now considered very dangerous materials!! I hope everybody at least reads this topic and considers some changes..

[olredalert]

------I will take your post very seriously,,,,Thank you! What is the alternative in your estimation, if there is a good one???..........Bill S

[Keith Tedford]

I passed this on to all my friends who are likely to use this stuff. Good gloves and an exhaust fan would be a good investment.

[Mr70]

If we only knew then what we know now.
Say it ain't so Mr.Joe.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[68l30]

Thanks for the heads up.....This hits very close to home.Good luck...my thoughts and prayers are with you...

I work in a industry chock full of chemicals and can't stress enough the importance of MSDS sheets and proper training to go along with them....We're now starting to crack down on welding hazards..."Hex chrome" is another known cancer causing agent that is a by product of welding..esp TIG (tungston)..and other alloys...It aint safe out there....Wear a raincoat.

Steve http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Norm reynolds]

My God This is not good
I have been turning wenches since the early 60s Back then did not think twice about getting lacquer thinner brake clean 2+2 carb cleaner gasoline on my hands. I think we all did it some time in our lives did not think about what this stuff could do to us.
I think It was in the last 80s that I started to were gloves. I remember been made fun of by co worker Hey what do you think you are a brain surgeon. Now you see every one wearing them. Still There is no drought
That I have been exposed to these bad chemicals and wonder if I am now in my 50s will I have a problem. As the old saying does If we only knew back then what we know now.
Big business is always in for the money just look at the drug companies.
There are way to many drugs out there that can Kill you.
Needless to say This is a shame that Joe has pancreas cancer. It is not his fault.

[PeteLeathersac]

I feel sick to know this for Joe and his family's sake also pissed off at the Safety-Clean type groups!http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif.

The only concern ever expressed by anyone regarding safety of these units has always been to make sure you were aware it was a fire hazard and you had the lead-melt self closing friggin' lid!!!http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif.

I can't help but think back to my days on the bench and how besides cleaning parts every day, we'd all spend a few minutes before lunch and a good while at the end of the day cleaning your hands in this stuff before using the regular hand cleaner then on to the regular sink and water!.

I'm so sorry Joe and hope things go Ok from here on for you also want to thank you for posting this for all to see! .

~ Pete

[Keith Tedford]

Where I worked they used to have a booth with exhaust fans for the solvent tanks. Now the tanks are sitting in the open and you can drag a fan over to blow the fumes around the tool room for everyone else to breathe. At least there are gloves and masks available. Want to see something dangerous, check the MSDS sheets on Beryllium. Lead is 50-80 parts per million limit while for Beryllium it is about .002 parts per million. Breath the fumes or dust and you end up with berylliosis of the lungs. This element is used to toughen the copper in weld gun arms and other copper based parts. Very common in the auto industry. Like the guys laughing at the gloves, our guys weren't any better. We've had guys who spent years on surface and cylindrical grinders dying with cancer. A friend died just this past year and he was only about 58. Hard things to prove in specific cases, but statistics tell the true story. Elements of the same family usually cause the same problems in humans so I have been told eg. chlorine, fluorine, and bromine. In the past, when one has been found to be bad they just moved on to the next one until it was found out for what it is. It's a murky world this use of chemicals. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Xplantdad]

Wow...this hits close to home for me. Right out of high school, I was working at an auto dealer in Anaheim...and since I was low man on the totem pole...I was "assigned" to wash all of the shop floors in the safety kleen solvent with a mop...then squeegee them dry. I, too, washed my hands in the solvent first...then with mechanics hand soap....when I was done working on cars. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


Let us know how you are doing, Joe.

[396L35]

This is a very sad story and my prays are with you... When I started in the Printing Field I used to laugh at the older guys wearing gloves when we washed the blakets, plates, etc.. It took me a few years to see how these chemicals dried out my hands and when I started wearing gloves and it went away... Lets face it, our bodies are made up of cells that are like little sponges that absorb almost anything we touch... I have since moved on to another job in the Printing Field off the press and I still go out there and tell the new guys to were their gloves... I even were surgical gloves when I change my car oil, they are inexpensive to buy and they block out all the bad elements that will harm your body... Good luck to all of us, Mark

[Charley Lillard]

I spent 8 years as a mechanic on a farm working on trucks and tomato harvesters. We had a solvent tank big enough to put a driveshaft in that I washed parts daily with including washing my hands and arms. Lots of dry cracked hands. Yes if we only knew. I wish you luck.

[L34Pace]

Lord, me too 78 to 82 in a real old fashioned service station. Six days a week at $2.25 and a thirty minute lunch break. Boss would bring in lunch, no time for the lava and water. Stuck my arms into the parts cleaner up to my elbows and then picked up the sandwich. I wish us all luck http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[SSJunkie68-69]

Joe I am very sorry to hear what you are going through and I hope and pray you will be able to beat this. It's a terrible situation that unfortunately has afflicted others as well.

I know a bit about this topic as it is one that I have been involved with since the early 90's. Up until that time people were not too concerned with solvent use and taking the necessary precautions to insure operator safety. These precautions include the use of gloves, goggles and proper work clothes but also the use of respirators. All too often people were not properly told how to use the solvents and the parts washers or if they had been told, thought wearing the equivalent to a bio hazard safety suit was just total overkill. Unfortunately we are learning that it is required. There was an incident with an employee of a railroad company that used a solvent based parts washer with very little protection that caused severe brain tissue damage. Although the gentleman survived he was no longer able to function without around the clock medical assistance. His life and his family's was forever changed.

Back in 1993 President Clinton signed off on the Montreal Act. That basically told all branches of the government and armed forces that the time to use solvents was coming to an end and set a date in the future where they would not be allowed to be used at all. Even today, some 13+ years later solvents are still be used by the government but in a much smaller and greatly reduced level. Certain branches received exemptions that are slowly expiring but not at the time frame agreed to back in 1993.

Since 1990 I have been involved with a company that produces an alternative to solvents that uses a water based or aqueous cleaning solution. It is not my primary business but one that interests me because it was a way we could provide for a better and safer work enviroment for people who are involved with parts washing and degreasing engine parts as well as the paint prep and printing industries. Without getting into the technical aspects of it, basically water is used with other safe chemicals and is blended to produce a cleaning solution that out performs solvents and has a longer shelf life and does not produce the byproducts that solvent based cleaning products do. We have this formula protected. Initially it is more costly to use as you have to switch out the parts washers but over a period of time it does prove it's cost effectiveness. More importantly it is environmentally friendly and has been approved for use by the EPA thus meaning it will not cause any harm to the enviroment or to the operators using the equipment but they need to follow the proper safety procedures as per our MSDS instructions.

We have spent the last 14 years going to the various branches of the military telling our story and undergoing testing so that we can get the required approvals to market and sell the product for the various applications that we cover. We have tried to go to the private sector too but no one seems to be interested including the company named in the beginning of this thread. All they seem to care about is profit dollars where we are more concerned with Life Safety issues and making sure stories such as Joe's are avoided.

The chemistry is out there to prevent things like this. We have proven that and have the test results and approvals to support it. However these things take time to implement change and it takes a commitment from companies and government to see that the change is made. Since we have been doing this we have spent a considerable amount of time and capital to advance this but we are much like David in his battle with Goliath. Our main reason for doing this is to do what we can to make work environments safer for the people there and in doing so make some business.

Hearing stories like this illuminate the need to see that the change is carried out. We have done our best to do that with the resources we have. We have gone to Capital Hill to testify before Congressional Committees but things just don't move that fast. We spent over 5 years in testing at one facility alone. With the way the Armed Forces are set up, you need to get an approval from every branch. For instance, even though we have approval for use for the Army with their helicopters, that doesn't work for the Air Force, Navy, Air National Guard or Coast Guard for that matter. You need to go and start at the beginning with each branch if you want to do business with them. It's kind of crazy when you look at it but that's the way it goes.

Due to the seriousness of this thread as it is a life safety issue, I wanted to hold off on providing the name of the company I am affiliated with because I don't want it to come across in the wrong manner. Bill asked if there are alternatives to solvents out there and I know for a fact there are. If you wish to learn more about it please PM me and I can direct you to the proper channels. If, after reading this entry to the thread, this board would like to know the name and how to obtain the product I will be glad to post it for everyone to see.

Good luck to you Joe and hope things will turn out for you and your family as well as anyone else who has been exposed to solvents and are suffering ill health as a result.

Tom

[69RSZ]

Wow,I just bought a parts washer and its in my garage,I think I will give it its own little shed!

[WILMASBOYL78]

We did so many crazy things back in the day...I remember the garage I worked in after high school..the guy would blow all the brake dust around the shop with an air gun prior to doing the brakes...I finally convinced him to use some brakekleen to keep down the dust..that probably wasn't good either...good luck joe..

wilma

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
We did so many crazy things back in the day...I remember the garage I worked in after high school..the guy would blow all the brake dust around the shop with an air gun prior to doing the brakes...I finally convinced him to use some brakekleen to keep down the dust..that probably wasn't good either...good luck joe..

wilma

[/ QUOTE ]

We did the same thing...Grainger also carries a water based parts cleaner....I think dry cleaners used to use a solvent like parts cleaner too.

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

That is very sad,and my prayers are with you and your family joe and the others that suffer from cancer.I have a good friend for many years there Family owned a small head and block shop.The Dad retired some years back and passed away with cancer 2 years after he retired,the son that took over the business just passed away with liver cancer 3 days before Christmas.Now after this post I would be willing to bet there cancers were caused from the industry they were in.Lots of cleaning of blocks,heads etc,decking blocks,boring blocks,surfacing heads etc!I guess there is nothing safe anywhere anymore!Eventually everything we eat or touch will or can cause the human body some type of harm! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Even too many beers makes us to big in the middle section which is causing too many health problems!Just think of them people that work in the refinerys where these chemicals are made!I live about 45 miles from all the refinerys in Texas City,Pasadena Texas.I honestly don't see how people live around these areas because of the foul odors!I have always believed if it smells really bad it can't be good for you to breathe it!I guess we never really will know where it will stop.

[WILMASBOYL78]

We did the same thing...Grainger also carries a water based parts cleaner....I think dry cleaners used to use a solvent like parts cleaner too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The dry cleaning solvent had carbon tetra-chloryde(sp?) in it, as did brake cleaning solvents. They were outlawed about 20 years ago..maybe longer..the guy from my high school garage ended up with brain cancer..very sad.

I clean a lot of parts with just some simple green..

wilma

[Mr. Duece]

I must say this is a very disturbing post and hits close to home for me. Personally I have been a full time auto mechanic/restoration tech for 20+ years. I work with many of the chemicals discussed here and practice many of these bad habits on a daily basis. It is truly time to make some changes. I don't want to speak for others, but I welcome any safety recommendations or additional info. on safer alternatives available. As for you Joe and the others dealing with health issues, my prayers are with you and hope for a full recovery. Don

[SSJunkie68-69]

Here are some of the alternatives out there that, unlike some of the others mentioned, have been government tested and approved. Hope this helps.

Link to Products Page: http://www.hurrisafe.com/products.htm

Link to Home Page: http://www.hurrisafe.com/

[Drew Papsun]

Hello Joe,
I am saden to read the bad news of your health. Your message has told us of what will happen over time of using these chemicals.
Thank you,
Drew Papsun

[smac77]

Thanks for the heads up, I'm 35 and restore classics so my exposure has been limited so far... I'm off to ebay now to find some gloves!

[BonzoHansen]

Joe, I wish you all the best, thanks for sharing this. The young guys in my camaro club laugh at my gloves - young & foolish.

I fill my little parts washer iwth water & zep orange.

[P.J.]

Joe, I also wish you the very best.During my working life
I was also a Health & safety Rep. for 20 years, and was very aware of the dangers of chemical absorption through the skin.
Your hands will absorb chemicals that will end up in your liver.
That also applies to household cleaning chemicals like Javex
commonly used at home. You should also avoid exposure to engine and transmision oils .Treating all chemicals as potential Hazards will serve you well. take time to read the hazard warnings on the container and if you need to work with these substances then personal proper protection
is a must.
PJ

[3macs1]

Thanks PJ the more I talk to people the more cases I hear of us young gearheads battling rare forms of cancer.The thing that shocked me in all of this was the fact the chemicals we thought we were using were safe but more important was our discovery that they do not come out of your clothing with a normal machine wash plus if you use the family washer they are being spread to other clothing.I have had clothing tested in a lab and this holds true. Seems the detergent manufacturers changed the formulations over the past 20 years and removed tri sodium phosphate which did wonders on toxins.Today there is nothing in the mix to do the same. They will tell you zeolite takes care of metals but what they are not saying is that it is size A or P which has pores too small to do anything and serves as nothing but a water softener.
getting it in the skin is one thing keeping it off your clothes is equally important.
Take care Joe

[P.J.]

Joe you are asolutely correct, the family is also affected by the chemicals you bring home.
Inhalation is another way chemicals enter your body.
When I was a safety rep for our workplace I noticed a patern of industial disease occuring in in our workers at the plant.In one paricular case a worker related to me one day that while working on kevlar in the plastic shop he developed a onset of temporary blindness,and was not able to drive home. This scared the H---ll out of me. So the next morning I handed out a survey asking for examples of
symptoms arizing out of working with chemicals. When the responses came back I knew we had a serious problem.
So we hired a independent clinic to do an assesment of our workers and report their findings.The report that came back
confirmed our suspicions. The company was hiding the incidents of industrial disease from the workers and the workers Compensation Board.
The s--it hit the fan, we had 300 employees that refused to work on the grounds that the chemicals they were working with were ijureing them and they had no knowledge on how to protect themselves. Well we ended up fixing the problem
as the company agreed to train each employee and provide the plant with material safety data sheets, provide proper safety equipment and install fresh air syatems in the plant.
This was in 1985. this action on safey prompted the provinial goverment of the day to legislate safety for the workers and the right to know what they were working with.
It took the efforts of many to rectify this serious problem."Felt real good"
PJ

[HEMIBEE]

Being a service tech I work with several other guys and we have discussed this issue several times, I have bean on the glove program for many years now, but some guys will never learn, i saw a guy at work a month ago spraying carb cleaner up and down his arms, he said he had poison ivy and that the carb cleaner dries it out and will make it go away, this guy had alot of open sores from it and i thought, (what a GOON) go get a prescription from your doctor, UNBELIEVABLE

[Keith Tedford]

Joe mentioned that they have taken tri sodium phosphate (TSP) our of laundry detergents. You can buy TSP in cartons and add it to your washing machine when doing your garage clothes. Might just save a few people. You can't count on big business to do anything positive unless a law is passed. It's sad that so few companies have any morals or principals.

[PeteLeathersac]

For obvious reasons I've been hesitant to bring this up..
I haven't heard from our friend Joe or had any response to my emails to him for months now also see he hasn't posted here since April...anyone know anything?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

[Rixls6]

I've been wondering about him also. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[kwhizz]

Same Here also.......Last response I got from him he said there were some Health Issues........

Ken

[SS427]

I talked to his brother some time ago and it did not sound like it was a lot worse then but he said Joe had just been keeping to himself for some time and that it was nothing personal. I too wanted to talk with him and see how things were going. Hopefully he is still doing ok.

[Xplantdad]

I was just talking about him the other day...and was wondering the same thing.

Has anyone tried to contact him?

[300deluxeL79]

[ QUOTE ]
For obvious reasons I've been hesitant to bring this up..
I haven't heard from our friend Joe or had any response to my emails to him for months now also see he hasn't posted here since April...anyone know anything?.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

[/ QUOTE ]

he hasn't been around the SS427 site either. hope he's doing ok.

[Mr70]

I helped him ID some parts recently,when he was listing them on eBay.
A box showed up at my doorstep days later with some pretty scarce vintage NOS Chevrolet Accessories in it and a card labled.."Thanks"
I hope that's not the last I hear from him.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif