#68 1969 ZL-1 [Archive] - The Supercar Registry

x Baldwin Motion

01-25-2007, 12:33 AM

here's my two cents worth of nothing;

1969 Camaro dealer order guides did not list 427ci engines, but COPO (Central Office Production Order) Camaro's were factory-built. These included sixty-nine COPO 9560 ($4,160 retail) units with aluminum block "ZL1" 427ci engines, fifty going to Chevrolet dealer-racer Fred Gibb, nineteen to other dealers. ( I believe Fred Gibb returned thirty something of these to be reinvoiced to other dealers, the only time a dealer has ever returned cars to GM ) Chevrolet developed special graphics and trimmed at least two prototypes, but ZL1's sold to the public carried no special exterior identification.

http://www.camarosource.ca/php/camaro_info_db/index.php?year=1969

Maybe more details are offered here;
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/247878/an/0/page/0#247878

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 03:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I never said it was an EXACT copy just wanted to see how the car was badged, chome, interior stuff like that. Sorry if I stepped on toes!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when you mention a certain number car..it sounded to me like a dude trying to build a pretty exact 'clone'

Im all for what I call 'paying homage'. And who wouldnt want an aluminum or ANY 427 camaro? Its not much different from putting SS or Z/28 stripes on your base car...something people have been doing for years.

but, the fellas that try to build a car that is a total copy....hmmm, i gotta wonder...

If you just like the stipes, or the 427 or 302 or whatever, that is one thing. But the 'exact copy' guys...I gotta wonder what the motivation is? Does an exact copy bring that much more satisfaction than a car that just maybe looks like a COPO car?

Charley Lillard

01-25-2007, 03:14 AM

There was a red red ZL1 clone at this years Barrett-Jackson that had the actual engine out of the car it cloned.

camarojoe

01-25-2007, 03:16 AM

#68 ZL1 was a cortez silver RS, DX1 nose stripe, 4 speed with console, spoilers, AM radio, Endura bumper, 14" rally wheels with F70 white lettered tires, black standard guts with the Z23 interior trim package. Sounds like a pretty unique and high optioned car... is the real car accounted for?

Salvatore

01-25-2007, 03:17 AM

Well what happened to the car? Do you know. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 03:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There was a red red ZL1 clone at this years Barrett-Jackson that had the actual engine out of the car it cloned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed this one. What was the story here? How much did such a frankenstein fetch? How did they end up with the engine, and is it known what happened to the actual car?

Jeff Murphy

01-25-2007, 03:51 AM

$134k. Charley, is #62 Frank DiHartce's car or is his the other red ZL-1?

Charley Lillard

01-25-2007, 04:03 AM

Frank has the red black ZL1. The silver RS ZL1 is owned by Craig Jackson.

69LM1

01-25-2007, 04:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was a red red ZL1 clone at this years Barrett-Jackson that had the actual engine out of the car it cloned.

[/ QUOTE ]
I missed this one. What was the story here? How much did such a frankenstein fetch? How did they end up with the engine, and is it known what happened to the actual car?

[/ QUOTE ]

Give me a frankenstein like this any day! Of course, what's more of the Zl1, the "real" car with a "clone" motor, or the "clone" car with the "real" motor?

Pot. Sturring. Pot. Sturring.........

camarojoe

01-25-2007, 04:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
$134k.

[/ QUOTE ] That should answer the question of which is more desireable, the original car without its original engine or an original engine in a clone car.

TXSS

01-25-2007, 06:08 AM

Charley, are you saying that the #68 ZL-1 is owned by Craig Jackson or that he owns another silver RS ZL-1?

Hey Bocephus, why would you call ZL-1 built Camaros Frankenstein's. Frankenstein was a stitched together abomination. I promise you my ZL-1 built cars are nether stitched together or abominations and there's a lot more to building one than throwing some Z28 stripes on the hood and deck lid.

"but, the fellas that try to build a car that is a total copy....hmmm, i gotta wonder"

Do you really think that someone could be scammed by a fake ZL-1 with the wrong vin, I don't think so. That's why ZL-1 Camaros are the perfect car to clone because no future owner could ever pass it off as the real deal.

RUQUIK

01-25-2007, 06:55 AM

Man, HW I am sure everyone appreciates your deep concern here but I was not asking for your thoughts or your approval in what I was doing. You have been dubbed the replica POLICE! I wonder what is it about someone building a car that makes you wonder? Why does it bother you what someone's motivation is, maybe that is just what my customer wants, he has the money, he is not trying to fool anyone! (Like everyone does not know where all the cars are?)The guy has a fleet of cars and just wants this! Us "dudes" and "fellas" will be fine! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 07:11 AM

HA! Thats why they never let me write the office communications.

With my Frankenstein reference, I thought I was being clever. A Zl-1 is a true monster on the street.

Basically I was trying to say someone was building a monster at home.

Not implying shoddy workmanship - just the 'home built' beast part of it. No offense 'tended.

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 07:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Man, HW I am sure everyone appreciates your deep concern here but I was not asking for your thoughts or your approval in what I was doing. You have been dubbed the replica POLICE! I wonder what is it about someone building a car that makes you wonder? Why does it bother you what someone's motivation is, maybe that is just what my customer wants, he has the money, he is not trying to fool anyone! (Like everyone does not know where all the cars are?)The guy has a fleet of cars and just wants this! Us "dudes" and "fellas" will be fine! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Replica POLICE speaking here.

You gotta allow for your start to this topic was a little odd. Questions on copying a certain number in the line, raised my suspicions. Which I am entitled to have.

In any event, if you are gonna ask your question in a public forum I am entitled to give my opinion. If it makes you sad, or hurts your feelings. That's too damn bad.

By the way, that's LIEUTENANT REPLICA to you.

TXSS

01-25-2007, 07:44 AM

"No offense 'tended."

None taken.

How'd ya like that Bocephus comment. I know my Hank Williams Jr.

RUQUIK

01-25-2007, 07:49 AM

Doesn't make me sad, just glad I am not suspicious of things people ask when I do not even know them. Have a great day Replica Police Private First Class Hank http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif lol

RUQUIK

01-25-2007, 07:55 AM

Here is a great article on the #68 I found if anyone is interested http://www.motortrend.com/classic/features/c12_0601_muscle_car_comparison/index.html

All is calm all is good http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

GRB

01-25-2007, 05:48 PM

Well....this one may have a happy ending after-all! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS - got my popcorn just in case. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

01-25-2007, 06:01 PM

Roy, the real danger is several owners down the road. The initial motives are always good, but then it goes to someone who says, 'I'm not sure, could be, sure looks like the spec's of this one in this book....' (with the vin # changed in the book...) http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif It happens...

RUQUIK

01-25-2007, 06:39 PM

Hey I agree with you completely, Marlin. You guys all have a great day!

Roy

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"No offense 'tended."

None taken.

How'd ya like that Bocephus comment. I know my Hank Williams Jr.

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed. and I approve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-25-2007, 08:14 PM

Exactly. Your boyfriend may claim to 'never sell' his stuff, and 'has loads of cash'

But cars do get sold, and who knows where your clone might end up 10 years from now.

If you think I have no right to be suspicious, or possibly getting suspicious at nothing - you must be new to the hobby, or boy, you are dumber than a box of dirt.

Have you ever watched ebay? there are scams running on that circus site all the time. Sure there is real stuff, but there are lots of bum deals.

So some unknowing dentist who wants a big block 69 ten years from now, who knows what he will end up buying. And that just sucks.

Not to mention my greater philosphical issue with too many clones devaluing (in ways other than money) the hobby for the people that live and breath this stuff. The people that actually sweat blood, tears, and money into the real deal. Those that preserve/own automotive history and legends.

As I outlined off the first, I have absoloutley no problem with someone building something with the look and feel of a Z/SS/Zl-1....a 'tribute car' perhaps.

But I think if you set to work for your check-book toting friend, to build him a clone of ZL-1 #68 it has impacts on the hobby for the rest. Even if you arent sharp enough, or are too ignorant to grasp those impacts.

In the end, like I can stop you from building your clone of ZL-1 #68. But I assure you several people who have read this will duly note if they hear of Zl-1 #68 for sale 10 years down the road.

Postscript: No offense to any dentists reading.

x Baldwin Motion

01-25-2007, 08:42 PM

DID SOME BODY ORDER A CLONE?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/FrankenBlock.jpg

Charley Lillard

01-25-2007, 09:18 PM

The ZL1's are know by the vin and most are known cars with ownership history. Not many clone builders have the ability to get a vin tag made. Trying to pass off a fake ZL1 is probably the hardest to do for Chevrolet cars.

Xplantdad

01-25-2007, 09:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly. Your boyfriend may claim to 'never sell' his stuff, and 'has loads of cash'

But cars do get sold, and who knows where your clone might end up 10 years from now.

If you think I have no right to be suspicious, or possibly getting suspicious at nothing you must be new to the hobby, or boy, you are dumber than a box of dirt.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bolded wording wasn't necessary to put into your post.

Name calling serves no useful purpose...execpt to incite an argument. You can state what you need to with out BS...

PeteLeathersac

01-25-2007, 09:28 PM

Looks like 'All your rowdy friends have settled down' is the tune of the day Hank...better join 'em before you're singin' 'Long Gone Lonesome'? .

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
~ Pete

RUQUIK

01-25-2007, 11:01 PM

I guess you have proven your worth with the personal attacks like "your boy friend", "check book toting friend","dumber than a box of rocks", "new to the hobby", Aren't sharp enough", Too ignorant", Etc. I have a family business that Camaros is all we do and have been doing this for 18 years as a business and I have owned way more than 100 67-69 camaros as some of my friends that frequent this site can attest. You are proof than keyboard warriors always get 10' tall and bullet proof when behind a keyboard! I think you should stay out of other people's business and not speak for everyone in this business. It is amazing that a good person can come on this wonderful site and get attacked by a "know it all" like you just for asking a simple question. I really thought this was a friendly site for people like myself to share and learn but I guess it has gotten beyond that. Because I do respect this site and all of the "other" people on here this is the last post I will make on this subject. Hope your life somehow becomes more friendly in the future Mr. Williams.
To everyone else on this site, I am sorry about how this progressed in the wrong way, that is not what I intended!

Thanks again

Hank Williams Jr

01-26-2007, 12:16 AM

Here's another good tune, "If you don't like Hank Williams -you can kiss my a**"

one of my favs actually.

Hank Williams Jr

01-26-2007, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
DID SOME BODY ORDER A CLONE?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/FrankenBlock.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

That's awesome!

SSJunkie68-69

01-26-2007, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Name calling serves no useful purpose...execpt to incite an argument. You can state what you need to with out BS...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely worded Bruce.

Take a hint Hank and wratch it down a couple of notches.

Charley Lillard

01-26-2007, 12:33 AM

Hank Williams Jr...Your name calling is offending people on this board. Back it down or take it somewhere else.

x Baldwin Motion

01-26-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Name calling serves no useful purpose...execpt to incite an argument. You can state what you need to with out BS...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely worded Bruce.

Take a hint Hank and wratch it down a couple of notches.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY DONT 'CHA LOVE ME LIKE YOU USE Ter DO?
WHY Der YOU TREAT ME LIKE A WORN-OUT SHOE?

Oh,... maybe that was Hank Sr.

Why cant we all just get along? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Xplantdad

01-26-2007, 01:12 AM

We can all get along...it's just that stuff like that isn't necessary.

Chris, I know that you are probably joking, but if you think that we need to have stuff like that on this board...I'd like to hear your reasons why? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

x Baldwin Motion

01-26-2007, 01:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
We can all get along...it's just that stuff like that isn't necessary.

Chris, I know that you are probably joking, but if you think that we need to have stuff like that on this board...I'd like to hear your reasons why? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Bruce, Not sure which stuff exactly you're talking about, but chances are I'm trying to lighten a situation that resulted in useless and insulting name calling. I know we dont need that here and trying to communicate on a board such as this is difficult enough to not be misunderstood when one is only trying to gain information.
The assumption that one wanted information for the purpose of fraud is a small look at where some individuals have taken the hobby.

Should I have asked which stuff before I go on?
I hope it wasn't quoting Hank Sr. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Xplantdad

01-26-2007, 01:28 AM

The request for information by Roy was met with questions by a few people of his intentions. He answered thier questions respectfully and understood why some people were leery of why he was asking what he was asking. No matter what you think of what he was asking...the BS doesn't need to be there.

That's all I'm saying... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

x Baldwin Motion

01-26-2007, 02:05 AM

I couldnt agree more, and if the BS you are refering to is name calling, I do not condone it. If it were any of my comments meant to difuse what appeared to be getting nasty, they were only intended to be for humor and I apologize if anyone here was offended by my remarks or the cartoon. It implies nothing about anyones intentions or carbuilding techniques. It was just a picture I had that seemed to fit on this post. (I had been holding that photo a long time)
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-26-2007, 02:09 AM

C'mon on guys lighten up. Just a little tussle between Roy and myself. Big deal.

kwhizz

01-26-2007, 02:15 AM

"Tussle's" = "Time Out's".................

Ken

TXSS

01-26-2007, 02:28 AM

I have to put in my 2 cents. I've known Roy for many years and he would never knowingly deceive any one regarding one of his cars. Roy was into Camaros long before it was "in" to be into Camaros. I've learned a great deal from him about how to correctly restore a Camaro. Many of you know that I build ZL-1 powered Camaros. Clones. I don't even use that word because it invites criticism and reticule from the likes of Bocephus. But I build them anyway because I love them and they can't be passed off as anything else, ever. I just do not understand why some people feel the need or the right to judge others motivation regarding their cars. I've told Roy many time what a great web site this is. It's unfortunate that on his second or third post he is attacked by someone that has no standing on this site having only been a member for a month. It's just not what this site is all about so Bocephus, sit back, see how others conduct themselves on this site and take a chill pill because nobody has to justify anything they do regarding their cars to you or anyone else.

kwhizz

01-26-2007, 02:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to put in my 2 cents. I've known Roy for many years and he would never knowingly deceive any one regarding one of his cars. Roy was into Camaros long before it was "in" to be into Camaros. I've learned a great deal from him about how to correctly restore a Camaro. Many of you know that I build ZL-1 powered Camaros. Clones. I don't even use that word because it invites criticism and reticule from the likes of Bocephus. But I build them anyway because I love them and they can't be passed off as anything else, ever. I just do not understand why some people feel the need or the right to judge others motivation regarding their cars. I've told Roy many time what a great web site this is. It's unfortunate that on his second or third post he is attacked by someone that has no standing on this site having only been a member for a month. It's just not what this site is all about so Bocephus, sit back, see how others conduct themselves on this site and take a chill pill because nobody has to justify anything they do regarding their cars to you or anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

Hank Williams Jr

01-26-2007, 04:16 AM

Ye Gods! lighten up men.

69LM1

01-26-2007, 06:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The ZL1's are know by the vin and most are known cars with ownership history. Not many clone builders have the ability to get a vin tag made. Trying to pass off a fake ZL1 is probably the hardest to do for Chevrolet cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif No longer true, they are for sale now and often on Ebay (Blank VIN tags, that they will "stamp" for you after the auction). I got stuck with both fake VIN, CONVIN (firewall piece), fake Trim Tag and Fake stamped L78 block recently for 7k. Block was somewhat obvious in person, tag and vin's fooled everyone but Kurt and Jonsie.