'70 Chevelle SS L78 Convt. [Archive]

Bill Pritchard

02-03-2007, 08:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what about the POP ?Never seen one like that with no option codes, just the new owner info ?? Have you guys seen any like this ?

[/ QUOTE ]

One could assume that it's a replacement POP or else the person listed is the second owner. Seems believable that a dealer might not put all the drivetrain codes on when making up a replacement POP.

chads454Ls6

02-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Buildsheets look fake. Aged well but are not real. I am not going to point out what is wrong because they are getting better and better and we keep educating the scammers!

ohhawk

02-03-2007, 10:04 PM

I think Chuck Hanson and some of the Team Chevelle people would find your claim that this is a fake buildsheet to be quite interesting considering past articles on the car elude to this being a real L78. Looks right inline with a copy of a buildsheet that I have in front of me of another 70 Chevelle convt. SS / L34 built 3 days earlier at the same facility. This car's buildsheet (the L78 listed for sale) has been around for a number of years on another website as an example of a Baltimore buildsheet.

WILMASBOYL78

02-04-2007, 03:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The Build sheets look really good but what about the POP ?Never seen one like that with no option codes, just the new owner info ?? Have you guys seen any like this ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have one like this for an L78 Nova..usually second owner situation..car still under warranty....others may have different info.

wilma

LVCamaro

02-04-2007, 04:39 AM

the thumbnail pics show bucket seat console interior, then the hyperlink pics show bench seat http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

P.J.

02-04-2007, 04:49 AM

looks like real nice car
too bad the pics are not great.
would like to see the resto pics.
Peter

jbsides

02-04-2007, 05:01 AM

What's wrong with this picture? Through the 70's and 80's whenever I found a buildsheet in a Camaro I was working on, I thought "cool" and threw it in a drawer to look at later, which rarely came. Enter the 90's and the "analysis" years of what each plant examples of them were.
Now, everything that pops up is suspect. The hobby is so inundated with fraud, the skeptisism that it's not real is virtually automatic. With the variety of different printers and backups and different data inputters, there is probably a large number of possibilities of fonts and codes and soforth. Not every one is going to be fake. The accusations used to be entertaining, but it's getting a little stupid.
My $.02US.

JB

chads454Ls6

02-04-2007, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Buildsheets look fake. Aged well but are not real. I am not going to point out what is wrong because they are getting better and better and we keep educating the scammers!

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I somehow was looking at the other red 70 ss convert buildsheet discussed under this thread. I apologize if it affected anyones jjudgement of this car. These sheets look good.

70 Forest Green Zee

02-04-2007, 05:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the thumbnail pics show bucket seat console interior, then the hyperlink pics show bench seat http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve brings up a very good point here.....1 set of pics show a bucket seat interior and the other set show a bench seat interior. There is no referance to interior at all on the build sheet. I have a 1970 Camaro with a build sheet and it has referance to the interior code A51= strato blk standard interior and has another code for the center console code D55. I'm certainly not saying the car is a fake by any means, but I do find it interesting that the 2 sets of pics show different interiors and that the build sheets have no referance to the interior. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

LVCamaro

02-04-2007, 05:24 AM

jb: you responded to my post, so I presume you're talking to me. I'm not making any accusations...I'm just saying the pics in the eBay ad show a bucket seat/console interior, yet the hyperlink pics embedded in the ad show the car had a bench seat when Chuck Hansen restored it.

SS

ohhawk

02-04-2007, 05:27 AM

Click on the series of Chevelle magazine articles posted by the seller. You'll see that it takes you through a good share of the restoration of this car. It does indicate in one of the articles that this was a bench seat car when Mr. Hanson owned it. I believe this is the "first" resto the seller refers to in his ad. Looks like someone later along the line chose sporty over originality. Seller should have indicated this in my opinion since everything else seems to be on the up and up in this ad.

Also notes in one of the articles that a buildsheet accompanied this car when Mr. Hanson owned it.

Rixls6

02-04-2007, 05:29 AM

For what it's worth, I believe the buildsheets are real as well as the car.

The interior is supposed to be a red vinyl bench (Code 787), according to the buildsheet. Red bucket seats would be code 788.

Apparently someone decided they liked buckets better, and switched it. Personally, I would have left it the way it was.

70 Forest Green Zee

02-04-2007, 05:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently someone decided they liked buckets better, and switched it. Personally, I would have left it the way it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you Rick.....I would have left it the way it was born too but never the less I would park this car in my garage with pride! Trouble is this car will sell for way more then my budget will allow for. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Stefano

02-04-2007, 10:19 PM

Does this car have the original Born with Engine?

ohhawk

02-05-2007, 12:45 AM

Yes, it was out of the car when purchased but the previous owner had it in his garage so it was transported home via the trunk of the convertible which was driven cross country to its new home. Articles indicate everything was there except the smog pump. It had a dropped valve and some internal damage but all has been repaired in the initial restoration performed by C.Hanson. Total #'s car according to the series of articles.

jbsides

02-05-2007, 12:47 AM

Steve,

I just did the quick reply thing with a general observation that there appears to me to be a trend that build sheets are now fake vice real somewhat automatically. It was not meant to be a reply to any post.
Although my experience is more with Camaros, I did not really see anything suspect with fonts and codes on this one, but the interior points are certainly valid. Would not be the first time one was wrong or the configuration was changed. Again, just my two cents. Nothing more.

JB

Mr70

02-05-2007, 09:13 PM

I've seen this very nice car upclose in person,and it is the real "BORN with" block.
The CON VIN is stamped down by the oil filter,(and done in typical Baltimore fashion),and the 2 buildsheets are authentic too.
This car originally was built with a red bench seat,incorrect 1969 SS396 interior door emblems as well as a 5500 dated redline tach.Chuck corrected the last two,and a later owner converted it to bucket seats & console.
Some other interesting details:
*It came with a manual top
*It's 3:55 but not a Positraction
*It's a non Flapper Cowl car,yet customer did opt for the RPO D-88 Hood & deck stripes so those are correct.

As ohhawk mentioned,the story of it's discovery & resto are documented in various past "Chevelle World" issues.
Chuck H. did a great job in documenting this resto,as well as showing it at past ACES events.

redeuce

02-05-2007, 11:48 PM

This car has been around a long time. Chuck had it back when there were only 5 known- the black, white, and silver ones we had in the showroom, Mike Gabbard's blue one, and Chuck's. I had conversations with Chuck on this car back then. His ride back was one that will go down in Chevelle folklore. I still have copies of the build sheets on the first 5. I sold the white one to John- he re-restored it and sold it. The silver one went down south. The black one was sold to a young man in Chicago, who took it to a few Chevelle-a-brations. He then sold it. I sold all 3 in the same year. We found another blue one that sold at Mecum last spring. I think this red car was just sold recently at auction in Florida. I lost track of all of them over the years. Because of rarity and lack of info, I think these are the most underrated Chevelles ever. Seems to me in the late 80's rixls6 and I went to Volo to check one out that they had, was in pieces. Wasn't real.(maybe that was an LS6- too long ago to remember) It was gold Rick, remember? This one has more ink on it than any other one out there.

Mr70

02-06-2007, 05:22 AM

Do you know where the silver one is today?
I saw it down south,before it was sold soon afterwards I was told.
I'm familiar with the ones you've mentioned and have located a total of 13 authentic/documented 1970 L-78 convertibles still standing.
Only one is a TH400.

JIM

02-07-2007, 12:56 AM

The 69 SS396 door panel emblems have been noted on L-78's built at Baltimore plant for years the code shows on the build sheet as well, as does YA wheels. This car has more history and photo 's finding the car, the paper work, and its restoration than any other L-78 out there ,for some one to call it a Fake is a brave statement, however some of the now collectors were still in school when these cars came into there own. I've had many L-78's only 3 convert's including the 2 L-89 convert's I sold. All of my 70's had the B-22 SS396 emblems from day one as my LS-6 has Malibu's .

Jim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Rixls6

02-07-2007, 02:06 AM

I have a question after reading some of the restoration article in the May/June 1996 issue of Chevelle World Magazine.

It states in the article, on page 4, that there was no ConVin found on the block anywhere. It says they checked by the oil filter and the front stamp pad.

Was it found later? Am I misreading something? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Musclecarkid

02-07-2007, 02:22 AM

I know of one other very well known Fathom Blue 70 L78 Chevelle that had no VIN on the block. Car was one owner, 55K miles, with docs when we got it. All dates were Sept 69 with an early Dec build. Original owner verified motor was never changed. Had only Day 2 mods, Headers, Intake, Carb, M/T's etc.

Late BrakeU2

02-07-2007, 07:13 AM

This one was an 11D,the latest sheet I have is a 12/8 car.Does anyone know what the earliest documented 70 L78 was?

redeuce

02-07-2007, 08:19 AM

Rixls6

As you know, I dove head first into the L-78's very early on in the 80's when I owned a coupe. Started an L78 sub-club when we all belonged to Meekin's club. At the time, they weren't worth but a fraction of what they are now, and there was much more information given freely about them. No one imagined they would reach the values they have now, so truth about these cars and their flaws was more abundant back then. I still have all my records from the 80's, and the stories, amount of documentation, etc have changed on many- coupes and convertibles. All I can tell you is I pretty much know, on the first 6 convertibles, what's right, what's not, which panels were replaced, which were repaired, what engines they had back then, what documents they had back then, etc. I sat 10 feet away from 3 of them for a year. I had extensive discussions with owners of 2 more back when they bought them and I took extensive notes, and got involved with the 6th one last year. I have copies of the build sheets for all 6 (I just found the 6th one)

Mr 70- Rick, I lost track of the Silver one completely. I'm surprised it hasn't surfaced. That was the one with the options, including power windows. There's a good story behind each one. I wish you would stop in and see me some time. I'd like to get your input on the others you've found.
Rixls6 and I spent many a day in the 80's chasing possibilities down.
I do know of one that was in the south in the late 90's. It's a fake but it's got docs. I'm not even going to mention the color. Back then, I got in trouble every time I started talking freely about the cars. I was being free with the information on these cars, and some owners of both real ones with issues and fake ones didn't like it. Now I just shut my mouth about them.

redeuce

02-07-2007, 08:26 AM

Jim

Which 3 L78 convertibles did you own?

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

02-07-2007, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
....It's a fake but it's got docs. I'm not even going to mention the color. Back then, I got in trouble every time I started talking freely about the cars. I was being free with the information on these cars, and some owners of both real ones with issues and fake ones didn't like it. Now I just shut my mouth about them......

[/ QUOTE ]

I know how you feel, sometimes it gets you the #1 position on the bitch list! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

redeuce

02-07-2007, 06:12 PM

All I was doing was trying to get information out on L78's so people would understand them. There were many interesting quirks to these cars. Around 1998,I published on our website that if anyone wanted to discuss L78's, to call me. I also offered the copies of many of the buildsheets to help educate people. One L78 owner saw that on the website and threatened to sue me if I gave a copy of his buildsheet to anyone. That was pretty much the end to my freedom of information act. There were so many inside stories to these cars that a book could be written. Here's one quick interesting story. The coupe I had originally was a black bench interior- but it had buckets when I got it. Brent Jarvis had just completed the resto on the black one for Tony. Tony sent the original bench on the black one to get redone- he didn't like the way it came out, so he got another bench seat and put it in the black one. I needed a bench seat, so he gave me the one he didn't want. So the original bench seat to the black one is mounted in the blue coupe that I sold to a guy in Chicago suburbs in the late 90's! The black one has a fascinating story- was found in the same tiny town in TN. that it was sold new in. The salesman that sold it new was still working as a salesman when Tony purchased it.

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

02-07-2007, 06:29 PM

You're 'preaching to the choir' my friend! I still hand out the 'deuce book', but it's been slimmed down by a few pages to keep the nitwits away.

redeuce

02-07-2007, 07:48 PM

Marlin

Something that is being overlooked here also- when we are discussing a classic of such rarity as these L78's, both coupe and convertible, the fact that the cars even exist gives them their value. What's right or wrong on super rare vehicles must become secondary to the simple fact that it's a real car and it exists. In my opinion, if the car has not been rebodied and it has a real piece of documentation, it has the value. Whether the original drive train, interior, etc are in it or not. We sometimes get wrapped up too much in proving the car is perfectly correct. As I stated earlier, there is a story behind each convertible, but it's a moot point. When only a handful exist, we have to accept them as they are.
I remember back at one of Meekin's shows in
Schaumburg. The gentleman from Iowa got in an argument with the judges. He had the beautiful black cherry L78 coupe. I'm sure both Rick's on the board remember this car. The judges started questioning parts on his car, and he stopped them in their tracks- he was the original owner!

ORIGLS6

02-07-2007, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The judges started questioning parts on his car, and he stopped them in their tracks- he was the original owner!

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez! Can you imagine?!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JIM

02-08-2007, 12:15 AM

All of My L-78 converts were 69's the Lemans Blue one sold at B-J march 04, The Dusk Blue L-78/ L-89 car that resold at Mecum fall 06, and the Garnet Red L-78/L-89 one that I had on E-bay and here. Had the the Red 70 LS-6 convert at B-J Jan 06 . Have had 6 70 L-78 htp's 2 green, 1 red, 1 white,1 blue,1 gray, still have the 1 green. Did work on a 70 L-78 convt that no one knows, doc'd with build sheet, and P-O-P and owned since 70 havn't got it yet still trying.

Jim http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

redeuce

02-08-2007, 01:52 AM

You've got good taste in cars......

redeuce

02-09-2007, 08:06 PM

Late Brake

The earlist production I have on the convertibles is the black one- 10/2

442w30

02-10-2007, 02:35 AM

I had heard that one of the L78 rags was legit, but it's build sheet had been altered to reflect the addition of options or something like that. Is this true?

redeuce

02-10-2007, 06:56 AM

One had 1 option added. But it was never falsified on the buildsheet- at least not the buildsheet that the car had back then....

JIM

02-10-2007, 07:59 AM

The car I know of is 9 D all doc'd
Jim

Stefano

02-10-2007, 05:18 PM

Is anyone familiar with the three Build Sheet Fathom Blue/ White/White "Survivor" which was for sale at Russo & Steele in Arizona?

370454s

02-10-2007, 06:53 PM

All this talk about the Convertible is very Interesting. I have seen the car personally before and after resto, nice car. I dont know why Chuck sold it, he Really liked that car. On the same theme how Rare do you think a 70 El-Camino L-78 Would be?

chevelleheart

02-10-2007, 07:27 PM

a 1970 L78 Elky is pretty rare, I bought one last fall , and after doing some research based on the ratios from 1968 and using the L78 engine production of 2144 for 1970 I kinda came up with a "Guesstimate" of about 237 L78 Elky's were made in 1970. I'd like to know anybody elses's estimates ?? I may be out to lunch,Does Dan Carr's poster have any info on them ?

ohhawk

02-11-2007, 04:09 AM

D. Carr is at 259.

442w30

02-11-2007, 07:20 PM

From a statistical POV, I think Carr's numbers make sense. But I also believe there are certain weights that must be applied to each vehicle. For one thing, I think the buyer of an El Camino has a lower propensity to be interested in an ultra-high performance vehicle. Hence, I believe the numbers for L78 El Caminos are much less.

427king

02-11-2007, 07:51 PM

Ive always felt extrapolating #s was in no way accurate for this hobby. If it worked thier be tons more RS copos...

chevelleheart

02-12-2007, 05:24 AM

Good Point !but at least it's a start.

442w30

02-12-2007, 06:12 PM

How can it be a start? It just leads to misinformation.

If I were to use statistics for a Hemicuda convertible, I would think that all of 'em were red, dark green, yellow, and purple. Instead, there's 2 red ones, a purple one, two white ones, one or two black ones . . . you get the idea. But statistics would also suggest that the sample would not be enough to extrapolate numbers with a low rate of error.

Mr70

02-13-2007, 04:26 AM

Auction ended with $197,899.00 bid ..Reserve not met

Stefano

02-13-2007, 04:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is anyone familiar with the three Build Sheet Fathom Blue/ White/White "Survivor" which was for sale at Russo & Steele in Arizona?

[/ QUOTE ]

Still seeking info on this car??????

ohhawk

02-13-2007, 05:47 AM

$200,000 level seems like pretty good money for this car to me but apparently not enough to the current owner. I noticed this car has been on the auction block at several auctions in the last several years.....2004 and 2005 at two different auction sites. The last where the car was bid up to $172,825 but not listed as sold.

Rainer

02-13-2007, 10:04 AM

Chuck shared a little about the car over at Team Chevelle, including that when he sold it about 4 years ago he got just over a third of what it bid to on the auction.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163395

ohhawk

02-26-2007, 05:54 AM

Stefano -

This may not be the car you are seeking info on but there can't be too many Fathom Blue L78 converts roaming around. This is the 2nd one located in Des Moines that has hit ebay in the last 30 days (2 different owners). The red one on this thread being the other. This owner has a couple of other nice ones listed on ebay as well. I may have to take a peek at these cars next weekend.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevelle-1970-CHEVELLE-SS-L78-CONVERTIBLE_W0QQitemZ170084861841QQihZ007QQcategor yZ6164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)