Construction Question???

[Zedder]

We have made a deal on a new house and are having it constructed over the next year. It has an attached 3-car garage (we're in the city) and I am going to have them build a wall with a door between the two-car garage and the third bay to keep the bikes, garden stuff and garbage cans away from my cars (when I get some again one day after paying for this darn house http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). The builder was going to build the framed/drywall wall rght on the slab but I don't think that is a good idea for fear of mold and rot from any potential moisture. I have suggested that they build a cement curb between the two bays and build the wall on top of that given that it is not a load bearing wall. Does this make sense??? Any better suggestions out there? Thanks in advance http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[TDW]

Mabey lay 1 row of block to build the wall on.

[Zedder]

Good idea Tony...hey, glad to see you posting. I hope you are doing well. I've been thinking of you and saying a few words before bed time on your behalf http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[LVCamaro]

[ QUOTE ]
Mabey lay 1 row of block to build the wall on.

[/ QUOTE ]

...staple construction plastic sheathing to the studs then sheat the wall with that green colored 5/8" water barrier gypsum board commonly used in bathroom/kitchen areas.

[Zedder]

Thanks Steve...that's another good idea! The reason behind concern is that I have seen what moisture can do to frame construction. We had a sprinkler pipe breat at work and the office had 2 inches of water on the floor when we came in the next morning. Believe it or not, when we had moisture tests done, they found that the water had wicked up the drywall 4 ft!!! So maybe a combination of a block base with the green drywall will put my mind at ease given that the garden hose and my kids might be out there together http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

You can also put a layer of tar paper(THE THICK ONE I BELIEVE IT IS RATED 30#) the same width under the bottom plate of the wall,also use ground contact treated 2X4 for the bottom plate of the wall.That will limit any moisture from coming in contact with the 2X4 bottom Plate!Then use the plastic sheating If you wish on the lower part of the wall but I do not think it would be necessary.It would be a good idea to use the green sheetrock in that area due to possible contact of water.I used to frame homes years and years ago and that was a requirement to use the 30# felt or tar paper on FHA homes.We did not use the treated lumber because it was not readily availiable back then but it is now so I would use that. The contractor should use a heavy plastic put over the dirt before he pours the concrete.This is also a moisture barrier and will prevent moisture from coming up through the cement.If you just want to spend the extra $$$ for the concrete curb or stub wall to lay the bottom plate on.I would think it is going to be just like a curb if layed directly on top of your existing slab,it is going to crack and move with much contact.Although if your contractor sets the forms for it during the initial pour you could make it to where it is a part of your regular slab which would be much stronger and they a can also install some 1/2" bolts to hold the bottom plate for the wall down also.

[71-LS6]

Mark, if your builder's concrete man is any good, a 4" curb is a no brainer. My guys would charge maybe $200 at most and that would be all labor. You're right about water wicking up framed walls with sheetrock. If you are worried about rot, simply use treated lumber and water-board for the wall, stay away from any plastic vapor barrier behind the rock, you want it to be able to dry out after you've soaked it down with your garden hose.

[LVCamaro]

Tyvek (http://www.tyvek.com/whatistyvek.htm)

[JoeG]

Murphy's Law--You worry about the water at the floor and the ceiling leaks--If you decide to go with a cement curb and it's not part of the intial slab pour--Make sure you put 1/2 threaded rods into the cement floor to run up thru your cement curb so it doesn't walk.--IMO green board on a vapor barrier sheetunder the floor plate with treated wood will probably outlast you......

[LVCamaro]

it would definitely outlast you, Joe http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

this is good stuff too:

Bluwood (http://www.conradfp.com/bluwood.shtml)

[Zedder]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of the suggestions! I know very little about this sort of stuff and don't want to leave it up to the builder alone to determine the best solution. Thanks again http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I've got dibbs that Zedd sells this house and buys another before this one is completed! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[SamLBInj]

Your in my area of expertise now and we build walls on slabs on an Island every day. I have done the same thing in my garage as you are doing. You dont need a curb. Here is what you do, Bottom plate is ACQ (You will need to use ACQ for anything that is below flood level). Then frame the wall with doug fir. Use termite sheild. On the Island here we use MR (Moisture resistent drywall) on anything that may get wet otherwise we use 5/8" Fire Code drywall. (if there is living space above garage you need two layers of fire code drywall). Did they put bolts in the floor before hand? If not, you also have to glue the wall down.
Insulate if you want, other than that your done, use a good anti-molding primer like Kilz. You can also use wood looking plastic base trim if your afraid of water damage.
We always install radiant floor heat in any garage slab we do and if you have ever experianced it you would want it. It can be a little pricey if your home isnt using a boiler but smaller garages can be run off a water heater type unit. Just make sure they size the piping right or it won't work right and take forever to circulate through. When done right you don't mind laying on the 80 degree cement http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you have a question just ask and I'll help you out.
Sam
PS Steve, we are seeing many problems with tyvek on Ocean or near water front homes where it was installed behind cedar siding as the homes are rotting due to being "too tight" We only use it behind vinyl now. We are also finding many homes completely rotted from ground to ceiling that used EIFS siding. The studs are actually disintegrated and only the paint and drywall are holding everything together. We just rebuilt a 5 million dollar ocean front house that was completely gone that was only 6 years old.

[LVCamaro]

[ QUOTE ]

PS Steve, we are seeing many problems with tyvek on Ocean or near water front homes where it was installed behind cedar siding as the homes are rotting due to being "too tight" We only use it behind vinyl now. We are also finding many homes completely rotted from ground to ceiling that used EIFS siding. The studs are actually disintegrated and only the paint and drywall are holding everything together. We just rebuilt a 5 million dollar ocean front house that was completely gone that was only 6 years old.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting...I've built a dozen homes on the Kenai Peninsula [along the shoreline of the Kenai River and Cook Inlet, AK] and we've NEVER had mold/rot issues behind the exterior siding. Average fare for the day up there is blowing rain or snow, and EVERY home is wrapped in Tyvek for the last 6-8 years that I'm aware of. Bluwood is probably the newest innovation in anti-mold wood treatment and we've had tremendous success with it in places like Hawaii and the Pacific Rim areas.

SS

[SamLBInj]

We have run into it alot, Only when cedar is over the tyvek and then over CDX ply and it dosent matter clap or T&G. Zero problems with good old tar paper. We didn't build them, only repairing so we are still trying to figure out why. Lots of moisture here as were on an Island 6 miles out into the north Atlantic.

[LVCamaro]

any experience with the Bluwood or Ark Oil wood preservative treatments back there? We've had very good luck with both out here on the left coast.

Ark Oil (http://cswoods.com/csw_newbrochurearchives.htm)

Bluwood (http://www.conradfp.com/bluwood.shtml)

if moisture gets past the exterior siding, either product will save the day from the standpoint of rot or mold issues on the plywood, sheetrock or framing lumber/trusses. Some of the local architects and construction permit regs specify one, or the other, on near coastal projects out here.

[71-LS6]

[ QUOTE ]

Sam
PS Steve, we are seeing many problems with tyvek on Ocean or near water front homes where it was installed behind cedar siding as the homes are rotting due to being "too tight" We only use it behind vinyl now. We are also finding many homes completely rotted from ground to ceiling that used EIFS siding. The studs are actually disintegrated and only the paint and drywall are holding everything together. We just rebuilt a 5 million dollar ocean front house that was completely gone that was only 6 years old.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam, I'm having a "discussion" about TYVEK right now with an inspector. The guy pulled my framer off the job, citing a local requirement for TYVEK installation on all framed walls. I'm concerned about moisture retention at this location due to extremely high humidity levels in the spring, summer, and fall. I think TYVEK works well in colder climates where the ambient air doesn't hold as much moisture. TYVEK, SILT FENCE... the same stuff? Don't get me worried about EIFS wall covering, my whole house is built with it, but then I'm not living on the coast either.

[Zedder]

Thanks Sam and Steve...I met with the builder tonight and they are going to get back with a plan later this week.

Marlin, That actually made me laugh out loud!!! Thanks for the chuckle http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Nope, we've been in our current house for 11 years and it was supposed to be a 3 - 5 year house. So we are doing this one just the way we want it and hope to stay there for a long time. I dread the thought of going through a building project and then a move, so I have no desire to sell it once it's done. Now, if it were a car, I'd be looking forward to finding another to replace it...but you already know that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[LVCamaro]

EIFS are among the most water resistant exterior surfaces you can put on a house. But as with all claddings, EIFS must be correctly installed and properly detailed if they are to perform properly. Otherwise, moisture can get behind the systems and cause damage, just as it can with wood siding, brick or any other exterior.

Water intrusion is seldom a problem on commercial structures with EIFS. Water intrusion damage to homes is uncommon, but when it does occur, the moisture typically affects only small areas which can be easily and inexpensively repaired.

In cases where homes have been damaged, the problems have been traced to the use of poor quality (even leaky and/or non code-compliant) windows and/or improper flashing and sealing. As a result, when building with EIFS, it is wise to use quality windows (such as those with AAMA certification) which are code-compliant, and to make sure there is proper flashing and sealing around windows, doors, roofs, deck-to-house attachments, and all other exterior wall penetrations.

Periodic maintenance should include thorough checking of the flashing and sealing to ensure that the building envelope remains watertight. Damaged or missing flashing should be repaired or replaced immediately; likewise, cracked or deteriorated sealants should immediately be repaired, or removed and replaced.

Good luck, Sam, Steve and Mark...my job here is done...lol

[Xplantdad]

Wow...this is like watching "Ask This Old House". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Steve, you sure know your vapor barriers! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[shor]

i remember reading about eifs system failures a couple years ago.
i recall the problem being faulty flashings also.
water was able to get into improperly installed windows and doors, and unable to escape, or "weep" out.
then stuff would slowly rott from the inside out...like a bad cavity!
i am not a fan of the eifs systems.
i'd take good old portland based stucco anyday.
30lb paper, wire lath, galvanized roofing nails, sand, portland, water and a radio! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[JoeG]

Any system will break down if moisture gets behind it and allowed to remain damp. The biggest plus I've noticed with EIFS systems over Stucco in my area is its resistance to major surface cracking with typical northern seasonal changes in weather....

[SamLBInj]

Steve you are correct, The biggest areas of damage I have seen with EIFS was around windows. One house had a section done with wire and stucco and that was in perfect shape, the rest was EIFS and completely gone. You have to have the caulk and siding checked at least once a year to be safe. There was a new EIFS product that had drains built into the backing system but I havent seen that installed yet due to price. I would imagine there is quite a bit of this out in Vegas but without problems as being in a desert.
Ill have to check out those other things you were talking about. Being right on the beach is always an adventure with water, sand, and corrosion.

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Sam
PS Steve, we are seeing many problems with tyvek on Ocean or near water front homes where it was installed behind cedar siding as the homes are rotting due to being "too tight" We only use it behind vinyl now. We are also finding many homes completely rotted from ground to ceiling that used EIFS siding. The studs are actually disintegrated and only the paint and drywall are holding everything together. We just rebuilt a 5 million dollar ocean front house that was completely gone that was only 6 years old.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sam, I'm having a "discussion" about TYVEK right now with an inspector. The guy pulled my framer off the job, citing a local requirement for TYVEK installation on all framed walls. I'm concerned about moisture retention at this location due to extremely high humidity levels in the spring, summer, and fall. I think TYVEK works well in colder climates where the ambient air doesn't hold as much moisture. TYVEK, SILT FENCE... the same stuff? Don't get me worried about EIFS wall covering, my whole house is built with it, but then I'm not living on the coast either.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Steve, What are you putting over the tyvek? If you have to use it make sure its taped in good and installed right. Are they going to fasten the foam right to it for the EIFS? This means your foam backing will be mechanically fastened and you will see the little bubbles where the fastners are if it's not absolutley perfect. I think if you install the EIFS correctly you will have less of a problem with it. I think most problems are from bad or incorrect type of caulk. What system are you going with? These systems were banned in the Carolina's and there were major lawsuits with it.