1970 L89 NOVA

[BARRY]

HI I WENT TO LEGANDARY MOTOR CARS LAST NIGHT THEY ARE RESTORING THEY SAY IS ONE OF ONE BLACK ON BLACK 1970 L89 NOVA IS THIS REAL OR NOT ??????

[BUIZILLA]

I have done considerable research on this and came up empty.... we DO know there were 311 L89 engines built for consumer use, that's a given.... however, nobody in the last 38 years has surfaced a shred of documentation that one 1969 L89 Nova exists, or was even built, to my knowledge. If so, I and 10 million others, really would like to see it. I asked Wayne at NNN about this 3 years ago when I was trying to build my '69 Nova for the F.A.S.T. events and he stated to me, at that time, that he has never seen one either. Camaro's was proven, Nova's were not.

I could be mistaken however.....

JH

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I think this black one has some documentation.

[P.J.]

Hey Barry
you will need to sell your house and children if you have any, to purchase that car from Legend. That is if it has
real papers with it.
PJ

[Mr70]

Does that documentation reflect aluminum heads?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I think it might have had a POP.

[TimG]

Any factory paperwork would reflect the L89 option, the POP would show the engine code for L89. I would say that it needs to be factory paperwork to really verify it as an L89, not a dealer sales invoice.

[PeteLeathersac]

If it's real and factory equipment, it'll certainly be expensive!.
I wouldn't expect the Legendary boys would say so if it wasn't, but lets see what they've come up with?.
Hopefully it's a Canadian car so there's unquestionable docs to back it up and not just paper and a Pop!.
Wouldn't a Canadian car w/ NOM feel better than a questionable original engine US car?.
Wasn't the one w/ supposed dealer added heads around a year or so ago a black car?.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

I personally don't believe it.....there would have to be a "real" POP for me to be convinced....if it is legit the value should be way up there....call me when the jury comes in.


wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif




wilma

[sYc]

I have heard from someone who I feel is an expert in the field, who has no problem "calling a spade a spade" and has seen the car and documents. They say it is legit.

[Schonyenko2]

Hey Howie, we got crow cookin up here for ya. You want it cleaned, or with feathers? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

It's not a Canadian car, and Legendary really doesn't care if it's real or not - as long as you pay the bill, they'll restore it to whatever spec's you want! From what an eyewitness saw, it appears to have serious potential of being real.

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Howie, we got crow cookin up here for ya. You want it cleaned, or with feathers? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[PeteLeathersac]

Ok, bummer it's not a Canadian car...appears to be the same one Legendary has been working on since last year...click below and go to restorations..

http://www.legendarymotorcar.com/home.htm

Here's the thread from last year w/ the supposedly dealer installed story...whatever the result was there???.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/227411/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

Reading it again, if things turn out real at least Howie's got company for dinner!.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BUIZILLA]

I'm dying for info and proof that's legitimate here.......

[budnate]

who's gonna be the first to ask about haveing the paperwork date tested http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[ORIGLS6]

Well, if this one turns out to be legit, how many more will miraculously crawl outa the barn in the next few months? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Understand, I don't know enough to have an opinion on this either way, but look at the hobby today. If there's one, it's a pretty safe bet someone will 'find' more.

[markjohnson]

I have pictures of a real L-89 Nova the day it came home new from the dealership here in St. Louis. Fathom Blue, blue interior, 4 speed car with Ralley wheels. I've showed the pictures to members of this site before and when I figure my new scanner out, I'll post them. A former co-worker bought it brand new and even still has the window sticker. This is the only 'hot rod' this fellow ever owned in his life and he says that his brother's '69 Z/28 could outrun him just on driving ability. Car was sold back in the seventies and whereabouts unknown.

[Mr70]

There's an Autumn Gold one in Kenosha. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Charley Lillard]

I have also heard of another one up in the pacific northwest that the orig owner still owns but he wrecked it way back when and rebodied it.

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
There's an Autumn Gold one in Kenosha. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Rick.......Don't even go there..........LOL....Remember the "Frumpy" girl you went to school with.......Today she could be made into Marilyn Monroe with the proper surgery........Same thing for Cars...

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[BARRY]

HI LEGENDARY TOLD ME THEY ARE RESTORING THIS CAR FOR 200,000

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]



Rick.......Don't even go there..........LOL....Remember the "Frumpy" girl you went to school with.......Today she could be made into Marilyn Monroe with the proper surgery......

[/ QUOTE ]

Why am I thinking of Ron White when I read this? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[COPO PETE]

Wow. This sounds like most of the people and there comments when I talked about my 1970 LT-1 Nova back in about 1986.
Peter http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[budnate]

Mark no bs he has the window sticker for sure?? that sure would go along way on blowing the unicorn thing, would he let you make a quality color copy of it and return it??

I talked to a guy 3 yrs ago on parts he told me he had one like 19K miles hit on the right fender, cant recall color though for sure today, he said not to bad but the fender was toast..claimed to have proof as I asked about it in length with him..we were going to connect in a few days trade parts and I was working on seeing the car, dude never called back and never answered messages or calls.

wierd deal for sure, he seemed like a major car guy to.

[markjohnson]

Well, it seems I don't know of the only one out there. They are few and far between obviously. The fellow I know who bought the blue one brand new actually gave me all of his photos of the car that he took the day he bought it home from the dealership. Because of my interest in the car, he said I could even have the window sticker next time he comes across it. Hope he comes through eventually because he moved away from me a pretty far distance and switched jobs. I held it in my hands once and I hope nothing happened to it!

[HiPerf]

Chevrolet never built or sold an L89 Nova. I would really like to see the paper work to this car.

[deuce-less]

never built or sold....

that is a pretty strong statement.
i'm sure stranger things have happened at chevrolet over the years. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif jmo

[427king]

Im sure Bob would have ordered one back in the day if they were! And ill wager a bet that he tried. Maybe thats why he can make that statement? Ill bet too it would have had a rosewood if he did... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kim_Howie]

Typical Liberal for Yah!!! Has the pot cooking before you even caught the CROW!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[P.J.]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical Liberal for Yah!!! Has the pot cooking before you even caught the CROW!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Typical non hunter. Should say shot the crow.
PJ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Typical Liberal for Yah!!! Has the pot cooking before you even caught the CROW!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Typical non hunter. Should say shot the crow.
PJ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I've see him kill a few Beers a while back?

[SS427]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif I can't count the number of times that I have come back from deer hunting to have the neighbors ask "did you catch a deer" to which of course I reply "no, I am a catch and release hunter". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[HiPerf]

[ QUOTE ]
never built or sold....

that is a pretty strong statement.
i'm sure stranger things have happened at chevrolet over the years. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif jmo

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a strong statement and one i'm sticking to,the car was never build. I don't mean to offend any one but if some one has paper work for a 1970 L89 Nova,its fake.

[Dave Rifkin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
never built or sold....

that is a pretty strong statement.
i'm sure stranger things have happened at chevrolet over the years. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif jmo

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a strong statement and one i'm sticking to,the car was never build. I don't mean to offend any one but if some one has paper work for a 1970 L89 Nova,its fake.

[/ QUOTE ]

They used to say that about LS6 convertibles and COPO Chevelles too; nothing was impossible back in the day.

[Charley Lillard]

HiPerf...Unless you have the GM records you are sounding kind of silly. You are stating that they were never built as fact when in fact you have nothing to prove it as fact.

[HiPerf]

I don't have anything form GM saying that they were never built if thats what your asking. If you walked in to any Chevrolet dealer in 69 or 70 and wanted to order a L89 Nova they would tell you its not possible. I tryed to order a L89 Nova from Chevrolet in 1969 and could not get one. It was just not built,i'm sorry that its to hard to beleave. I could get just about any option on any car,but the L89 in a Nova. If you have paper work to prove an L89 Nova was built,there are many that would like to see it.

[427king]

Did any Novas get converted to L89 at your dealership for customers or for stock after you found out you couldnt get one direct from GM?

[SuperNovaSS]

Well, if you went into most dealers in 1969 they would also tell you it was not possible to order a 427 in a Camaro or Chevelle also. I guess they did not make any.

[HiPerf]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you went into most dealers in 1969 they would also tell you it was not possible to order a 427 in a Camaro or Chevelle also. I guess they did not make any.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the one trying to buy the cars from Chevrolet,not the dealership. I could get you as many 427 Camaro's or Chevelle's you wanted in 69,those cars were easy to come by,Chevrolet made lots of them.

[HiPerf]

[ QUOTE ]
Did any Novas get converted to L89 at your dealership for customers or for stock after you found out you couldnt get one direct from GM?

[/ QUOTE ]

We would install anything that could not be ordered from the factory on any car.

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical Liberal for Yah!!! Has the pot cooking before you even caught the CROW!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif [/quote

Well, you may be right about that crow. But the folks who looked at this car ain't no dummies.
And all us liberals don't hate guns and hunting. I was a farm boy who grew up with a Marlin 39A in his hands. And if you stop by at the reunion, and say hi, I'll be glad to share some Ia deer sticks with you.
And some of us liberals even were war heros like John Kennedy.
Maybe I'll just wait until that ole crow flies over again, and I'll knock him outta the air with them ole weapons of mass destruction....As soon as I find them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Stefano, It wasn't me killin off them beers. I found out a long time ago I can't get em all so I gave it up. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Nobody could get a '68 Z28 'vert either, but they made one. Just because you couldn't get one in '69 doesn't mean they didn't make one - in '69 or '70. I'm a skeptic, but I've learned to 'never say never'.

[Xplantdad]

I agree with Marlin..that's always a good way to approach things! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Kim_Howie]

I have never seen a L-89 Nova. They built 50 Gibb novas have personally seen 20 out of 50. The 311 L-89 Camaros have seen 12 or more personally. The 311 L-89 nova never seen one yet. You would think if the small amount of Gibb Novas made and I have seen 20. At least one L-89 Nova would show up. The only reason I think there maybe some is the fact the MAN that looked at it told me several months ago he thought it was real and I believe him!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif Pass the peas and hold the crow http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if you went into most dealers in 1969 they would also tell you it was not possible to order a 427 in a Camaro or Chevelle also. I guess they did not make any.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I was shopping for my Chevelle, four of the six dealers I talked to told me there was no such thing as a 450 HP 454 in a Chevelle. That was in late April/early May of 1970! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (They also told me I couldn't get an LT-1 in a Nova!)

Like I said earlier in this thread, I have little knowledge of Novas, but I DO know this may well be another of those deals where you avoid those two dreaded words............. - ALWAYS and NEVER! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[PLATINUM6BBL]

and there was only 2 ZL-1 Corvette's built for public consumption! Is the orange ZL-1 automatic convertible, that is still in the hands of the original owner, a red-headed step-child? A friend of mine is coming over today (who mounted up the first set of slicks for the orange ZL-1) and I'm going to ask him if he has ever come across a L-89 Nova in all his years of travels to shows and appraisal work.

[427king]

dont know whether an L89 Nova was available nor do I know Bob Johnson personally. I will say that if Don Yenko was posting on this board right now and said there were no L89 novas available to him in 1969 youd certainly take that as fact,and Bob is the best person probably left to make these statements . Not saying anything that Bob says should be taken as fact, but i think based on his past at Scuncio and Bob Johnson Racing he may be one of the most knowledgable on this based on experience. In the day when most of us were riding our bikes to school, you should give him the benefit of the doubt especially when no certain proof of a real car has surfaced yet . He didnt work at "Mom and Pops" Chevrolet after all, and if it was available at the time HE probably would have gotten one if for nothing else the fact he ordered EVERYTHING else. He may be the best person to speak to regarding what was and how things got done back then.Just my opinion of course.

[ORIGLS6]

Good points.

[442w30]

I've never lent much credence to the anti-"never say never" crowd. Examples being used here are COPOs and Z/28 ragtops. A clueless dealership does not constitute evidence for "never say never", especially considering Yenko had a whole buttload of COPOs and magazines were testing them. And the Z ragtop was built for a GM official, so it's more of an anomoly than evidence of (once again) "never say never".

Then there's COPO Pete's Nova. Back in the mid-80s, these cars were 15 years old. They were just becoming something beyond a used car. These cars didn't have the benefit of research and preservation like we do now. It's no wonder people said he was full of it back then, but even today there'll always be a segment that'll be clueless one way or another, just like the guy who'll tell ya his dad used to own a factory 427 Nova with an L88 - they're everywhere.

People here are much stronger on Chevys than I am, but logic dictates that an L89 Nova would make sense for a '69, but for a '70? I'm skeptical. It would be mighty strange to find a '70 when evidence even for '70 Chevelles is hard to come by. It just defies logic, but at this point in the game I've resigned logic from the musclecar era as there are many things that don't add up but just are.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
.... I will say that if Don Yenko was posting on this board right now and said there were no L89 novas available to him in 1969 youd certainly take that as fact.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope!! I have seen enough of Don's tall tales in print, and the claims of productions figures.... (there were 500 Yenko Camaros remember? He also claims to have sold a few hundred Deuces!) I wouldn't believe a L89 Nova statement like that from him.

[Charley Lillard]

Most still say there was never a 70 L78 Turbo 400 Camaro built also.... :-)

[Mr70]

There are always things alot of us have never seen before.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/peterspix_2007/maggie_pirateLillarddog.jpg

[PLATINUM6BBL]

while Burr is still here I'll post that he doesn't ever remember any L89 Nova's. The 2 I were thinking of were both iron head 396. The interesting one he does clearly remember is a '69 L89 El Camino that ended up being totaled with 268 miles on it just outside Rimersburg, PA. Car went to Sharon Auto Wrecking.

[69motion]

NEVER BUILT A l89 nova? i dont know but i heard they never built a 69 z-28 conv. either ! lol BUT THEY DID

[BUIZILLA]

a '70 L89 Nova?????????????

no way Jose'

'69 maybe, BIG maybe.... a '70 flat out just didn't happen..

[SuperNovaSS]

69 Z convertible?

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
Nope!! I have seen enough of Don's tall tales in print, and the claims of productions figures

[/ QUOTE ] So if it was Don Yenkos personal opinion with his background versus that of someone you dont know that hasnt come forward with any legitimate proof youd give them both the same merit??? [ QUOTE ]
there were 500 Yenko Camaros remember

[/ QUOTE ] Givan that the "yenko" from that parts collection that was for sale in wisconsin wasnt on the yenko list of 201,how do you know he didnt have the production of 500 figure right? Or for that matter how do we know the 200 figure was right and not the 500??

[camaromb]

The only reason it was not on the known Yenko list is because Vince Emme didn't give all the serial numbers out. Some of the inventory pages (and vins) are only known by Vince. The Green Bay Yenko Camaro was one of those cars. With at least 150 of the 201 found, there has never been a Yenko Camaro ('69) found that is not within the known Yenko orders.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
69 Z convertible?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's referring to the Estes' '68...isn't he?.

I'd believe more in the possibility of a '69 L89 Nova before a '69 Z28 rag?.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason it was not on the known Yenko list is because Vince Emme didn't give all the serial numbers out. Some of the inventory pages (and vins) are only known by Vince. The Green Bay Yenko Camaro was one of those cars. With at least 150 of the 201 found, there has never been a Yenko Camaro ('69) found that is not within the known Yenko orders.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto!

And no, I would not believe Yenko if he stood here today and made that statement about L89 Novas. We can't sit here today and make generalizations about what 'could have' been produced based on one or two individual's personal experiences. How does one know if this supposed L89 Nova wasn't built for another exec?

I'm as skeptical as anyone, but I'll never say 'never'!

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
We can't sit here today and make generalizations about what 'could have' been produced based on one or two individual's personal experiences

[/ QUOTE ] If somone that lived and worked in the day ordering all the very rarest of chevrolet cars on a daily basis from a high performance dealer,id certainly have a tendency to give him more merit than the average person, thats all im saying.I always believe in the never say never,but since no ones come forward with a real documented iron clad L89,i will lean toward the never until proven otherwise.If an L89 was produced but none have been found or known of ,were they really made??

[Steve Shauger]

"NEVER BUILT A l89 nova? i dont know but i heard they never built a 69 z-28 conv. either ! lol BUT THEY DID"


They never built a 69 z28 convert, but they built one 68 for Vince P.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I understand your position Chuck, and I agree with you. Yenko and Johnson certainly were not rookies when it came to ordering special combinations.

This particular car has more potential for being real than any other story I've heard - so we'll have to wait and see, so far it looks promising.

The best answer would be that it's an unknown COPO # http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[deuce-less]

there seems to have been quite a lot of mystery and intrigue
amoung the chevy dealers in 1969 about how to get a hold of some of the hottest items rolling off of the production lines....

perhaps who you knew and who were your buddies dictated some of the allocations and delivery times http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

the dealers with the best factory ties probably got the first phone calls, with a sort of trickle down effect to the rest of the dealers, those without as much pull.

i have seen more than one example of something seemingly impossible to get a hold of, all of a sudden made available with the right amount of persuasion in the right place. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

if someone had all the right paperwork and all the right answers on the web site today, some people would probably still have difficulty with the idea of an L-89 nova http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[427king]

Marlin, Look at it this way. If you want to join a midget bowling league in your area,do you ask Charley,Jeff,or Belair where to go when you know darn well belair has been used to getting chucked down a few lanes in his day??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Schonyenko2]

Question for mr. Johnson. Did GM say why you couldn't order an L89 nova. I've not been able to understand the reason why it wasn't offered. If it was available in camaros, and chevelles, and of course corvettes, why not novas. This isn't an argument either pro, or con, but a question as to why, or why not. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
I've not been able to understand the reason why it wasn't offered. If it was available in camaros, and chevelles, and of course corvettes

[/ QUOTE ] I wasnt aware aluminum heads were an option on ANY 1970 car. Surely the corvette never had any motor bigger than the Ls5 available that year so it wasnt even available with iron squareports let alone aluminum .

[budnate]

maybe its just me, but Mark said in this thread he has held a window sticker to one in his hands and no one else says anything but me.??? wtf?

vintage pics and Marks word works pretty good for me, until he finds the dude.

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say that it needs to be factory paperwork to really verify it as an L89, not a dealer sales invoice.


[/ QUOTE ] Bud i believe the person that posted this was stating what i also believe. Window stickers vary so much there is no way to tell for sure which is real and which isnt,especialy when its the only piece of paper that documents a car that noone said was made . Buildsheets on the other hand are a different story[so far at least]

[Steve Shauger]

This issue specific to a 1970 built car has historical significance. First no documented 69 L89 novas exist, and second to our knowledge no other chevrolet received aluminum heads except this car in 1970. So everyone is cautious at this point and rightfully so. I am watching from the outside and will review all the tangible evidence like everyone else. Hopefully those that have either inspected this car or those who have copies /pics of the docs will share it and or chime in.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
Marlin, Look at it this way. If you want to join a midget bowling league in your area,do you ask Charley,Jeff,or Belair where to go when you know darn well belair has been used to getting chucked down a few lanes in his day??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agre Chuck...makes a whole lot of sense. And if anyone needed to know how to masturbate on a camel...you da man !!! Now back to the L89 Nova

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Belair62/wheels/MVC-015S.jpg

[427king]

Belair, its only fair i post a picture of you in your high school yearbook..

[Dave Rifkin]

[ QUOTE ]
Belair, its only fair i post a picture of you in your high school yearbook..

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG that picture is hysterical http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Belair62]

I have since cut my hair. Did the camel have enough humps for you ??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[nuch_ss396]

I've got a couple points to make on this whole 1970 L/89 topic.

First of all, the only production aluminum head in 1970 was
the '074 ( ZL-1 & L-88 ). This head used a voluminous
combustion chamber in conjunction with the 427 ZL-1 & L-88
pistons. There would have been a total combustion chamber
mis-match as no 396 ( or 402 ) pistons existed from GM in
the 12:1 realm. So how do we account for this? If you put
a set of '074 heads on a 396 ( 11:1 ) back then, it probably
would have run like a dog. The 396 probably couldn't pull
enough air to take advantage of this head design.

Secondly, I thought there were no L/89 options in 1970.

Steve

[442w30]

I thought there were 18 L89s built in '70, and those are understood to be L78 Chevelles?

[budnate]

Chuck, I assumed a real GM type window sticker not a dealer made sticker, Mark is this sticker a GM piece or dealer type??? that you saw???.

B.



[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say that it needs to be factory paperwork to really verify it as an L89, not a dealer sales invoice.


[/ QUOTE ] Bud i believe the person that posted this was stating what i also believe. Window stickers vary so much there is no way to tell for sure which is real and which isnt,especialy when its the only piece of paper that documents a car that noone said was made . Buildsheets on the other hand are a different story[so far at least]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mr70]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought there were 18 L89s built in '70, and those are understood to be L78 Chevelles?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe this to be true,and I know of at least 3 documeted L-89 1970 Chevelles/Elcaminos today.
There are too many EARLY issued factory/dealer materials supporting them selling new here,as well as in Canada,before being swiftly discontinued by the release date of the LS-6.
The 1970 Chevelle L-89's used the #842 Al. Heads,which is correct for an 11:1 compression.

[SS427]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought there were 18 L89s built in '70, and those are understood to be L78 Chevelles?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have documentation on two of these cars and have met and followed the restoration of one of these cars very closely. The car has been discussed quite frequently on Team Chevelle.
Rick

[Tommy]

I hope one is out there. I dunno if it is or not but they were talking about it long before 70... This isn't concrete by any means but read what this guy wrote about the 68 Chevy II on the right hand column. Sorry the scan isn't any clearer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/68sschevyII/articles/speed68.jpg

Tommy

[Stefano]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought there were 18 L89s built in '70, and those are understood to be L78 Chevelles?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have documentation on two of these cars and have met and followed the restoration of one of these cars very closely. The car has been discussed quite frequently on Team Chevelle.
Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

Two years ago a local 1970 Chevelle was pulled out of a long hybernation. It was believed to be an early LS6. (no engine)

A build sheet was found that very day verifying L89.

The production number of these cars has to be very low, yet at least a few have been found.

Big Blocks were build at the Tonawanda Plant, which is very close to the Canadian boarder. You would think that word of mouth, from the plants performance minded employees would have leaked out to at least some friends and family of the GM employeees and that we would have at least a few documented Canadian exemples, at the very least.

If any were produced they would be the exception which proves the rule. Kinda like the one and only X22 Copo Camaro or M40 1970 L78 Camaro.

Just my opinion.

[Schonyenko2]

Chuck, I was refering to aluminum headed camaros chevelles, and corvettes built in the 68 69 range. But yes I do remember reading about the 70 chevelles with that option. My question asked why would chevrolet not offer the L89 option on novas, 68 through 70? What would chevrolets reason be for not allowing them to be optioned on a nova? Companies do, or don't do things for specific reasons most of the time. That said, it might be a BS reason, but it's usually based on some sort of corporate logic.

[markjohnson]

Thanks for backing me, Bud. This was a real GM factory window sticker stating the L-89 option. Not a dealer order form. Not a dealer invoice. A REAL GM WINDOW STICKER that I held in my hands 3-4 years ago. I know what I'm talking about. This Nova was the only 'hot rod' that Bill ever owned and he sold it after only owning it a few years. He had the typical new car photos and window sticker in a shoe box in his closet for 30 years! He overhears me and another co-worker talkin' cars and chimes in. Needless to say I was stunned when this shy, humble fellow brought this stuff to work several days later. He was so excited by my enthusiasm and questions about the car that he gave me the pictures. Yeah, I know. I should have asked for the window sticker also but didn't want to seem greedy. He later said I could have that also next time he runs across it, but to be honest, I asked many more times about it and I'm afraid something happened to it or he just wants to keep it. Oh well, I seen it and know for myself that these things are real. You know, some people can not be convinced no matter what. I recently sold my numbers matching 1968 L-79 Chevy II and it was shocking to me how many people doubted that car even with bulletproof paperwork and docs!

[427king]

Ken, if there werent any/many i would guess it would be because the option was usually found on higher base price dollar corvettes and high optioned camaros.No coincidence that the highest production figures of L89s were always on highest base price/total price cars because the big cost could more easily be buried in the overall price. Even the more desirable camaro couldnt sell well with the added cost so im sure the novas would have been a harder sell for sure [mine sat on the dealer floor for over 10 months] An 800.00 L78/L89 option on a Nova added over 33% to the base price . It would seem wasteful to offer a huge cost option on a car that was considered a "budget" car back that did not have the overall option availability that the other 3 cars had either.[ [no hate mail please, i own novas too !] Ill bet a few nova buyers left the dealership with a set of new 842s in the trunk though

[PeteLeathersac]

Mark...was the window sticker car a '69 or '70 and do you still have the pics you can share?.

Slightly off the topic but while we're on the L89's, has anything on any real '68-'70 Mk1V Nova 4-doors ever surfaced?.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Schonyenko2]

My question actually is directed to Mr. Johnson. In his position as a prominent chevy hi performance dealer I was hopeing he could shed some light on why /reason, that he was given, that L89 heads could not be ordered on a nova.
I'm not sure that I agree on you reasoning about the cost issue. The people I knew who bought L89 camaros, and chevelles, bought them to race and wanted the al heads for a weight advantage. Even a base nova with Al heads would be cheaper than a 4675.00 Yenko deuce, and I know a few people who thought having an LT/1 in a nova was worth it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HiPerf]

Back then the orders for any car was done by mail. If the order went through the dealer would get an acknowledgment notice back from Chevrolet and the car would be built. If not it would come back incompatible and the order would be canceled. There was no other reason giving. I wonder if the window sticker was a dealer made sticker? We were giving blank window stickers from GM and would retype them when options were added. My friend Ed has some of then,he can be contacted at [email protected]

[1969l78]

Hope he is not makin fake ones up http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Late BrakeU2]

This thread is turning into this thread
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109575

And in this case an actual car exists

[HiPerf]

I would still like to see the window sticker to this car. I see it has a sign in the trunk stating that its an L89 car,does that make it real?

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s254/1970NOVA/SupercarsInside76.jpg

[JRSully]

Where's the paper.? just because Legendary restored it doesn't mean it's bulletproof authentic, Non original 3:50 gears, that ratio was not available production in 70 on a Nova. CBT 3:55 or CBS 3:31 (posi) closet factory ratio's, most popular in 70 BB Nova's

[ORIGLS6]

Supposedly a POP to back it up and enough other information to make it difficult to DIS-prove. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[@wot]

This subject, L89 Novas, has been discussed at length on this site. No one has yet to step forward with documentation to support this claim. It is the opinion of many, including myself, that none were produced.

[sYc]

A noted expert, who I trust, has viewed the paperwork as well as the car, and he says it is legit.


In addition, the car was on display (no ropes) and the owner nearby to answer questions at SCR10.

Not for sure what else can be done. IMO, the car is the first documented L-89 Nova.

[HiPerf]

[ QUOTE ]
A noted expert, who I trust, has viewed the paperwork as well as the car, and he says it is legit.


In addition, the car was on display (no ropes) and the owner nearby to answer questions at SCR10.

Not for sure what else can be done. IMO, the car is the first documented L-89 Nova.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about posting a copy of the paperwork for all to see.

[ORIGLS6]

I guess without intentionally meaning to upset anyone, I need to ask "why does everyone have to see the paperwork to believe it?"

I talked with the owner, the restorer and an associate of the 'noted expert' Tom mentioned. Like I said above, there's enough documentation to eliminate most reasonable doubt. Did I see it with my own eyes? No. But I trust in the folks who have the knowledge to sort out these things. And since I have no horse in this race, why would I stir the issue?
It's a cool car. End of story (at least for me).

[@wot]

I hope it is legit. I would love to finally have an answer to the this issue. If its real, then at least one exists.

[kwhizz]

Just before leaving SCR 10 and talking to Charley about this car and the person who "Authenticated" it.......Chances are that it's 100% legit..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
Just before leaving SCR 10 and talking to Charley about this car and the person who "Authenticated" it.......Chances are that it's 100% legit..... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ken http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was there at that same conversation... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

and heard the exact same thing

[John]

If I owned the car... I would not post the paperwork on a public forum for all those who would want to "repo" it...
..if someone is truly interested in the information...as rare as this car would be...would find the time in their busy day to talk directly with the owner and personaly "look" at the documentation.
..I think it is a great find.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

I second that John.


Jason

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not post the paperwork on a public forum for all those who would want to "repo" it

[/ QUOTE ] Not too much different from an L89 buildsheet to an L78 except a different code where an L78 JH would be and a different spring code.,if anyone wanted to "fake" a car,all theyd need is an L78 buildsheet to compare it with,so there is no harm in posting it.

[69hurstSC]

i have been following this thread and i feel the owner does not need to post any proof. anybody doubting the cars authenticity...too bad for you.

[Charley Lillard]

I spoke with the expert that flew up to Canada to inspect it at Legendary. He might or might not chime in here but basically what he expected was to prove it was a fake but everything he inspected told him it was real. I believe it was a crusty old engine and they even had cameras rolling when they pulled the heads to check the broach marks. Everything was right. Pretty cool car that I believe is real. Even the owner wanted it proved or disproved before he spent all the dough on the resto.

[Mr70]

Did anyone catch the name of the original selling dealership?
Curious if it was a well known Hi-po or Mom n' Pop.

[JRSully]

As some of you know, if the owner has just the buildsheet (not the full broadcast sheet)It would not show the engine designation/suffix. It was there for 69 Nova's but not there for 70. Full broadcast sheets are very rare in Novas.

[WILMASBOYL78]

I don't understand all this fuss about L89 Novas....kwhizz has had one for years..so they must be real http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

wilma

[1969l78]

What would be a price on this car if its real, and only one made?

[SSJunkie68-69]

At York, I heard about this car and everything that Charley posted above is correct. The expert went to debunk the car and prove it was fake but it turned out to be real. The expert has no ties to or interests in the car so I believe them.

Cool find...I do believe there are another 3 or 4 other L89 Novas out there. As far as the price goes, that's a good question. If this car trades it would establish the bench mark.

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
What would be a price on this car if its real, and only one made?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought elsewhere in this thread the figure of $200k was mentioned. If that is the case I would say the sellers are not that sure of it.
If it were mine I would price it similar to bid price of
1968 Z-28 vert.

[bilede]

I spoke with the owner of the car at breakfast during scr and seemed to be very nice guy with a super looking nova that I would love to have whether real or not. I say that only because I have no interest here just making a point as an outsider looking in on this after the show or I would of asked him at the table. why no docs shown for proof and why is the "expert" being kept a secret? Two points that make people sceptical both link to non disclosure of details. I know, he doesn't have to do anything but I don't understand why the secrecy especially of an independent expert. I have some land to sell with an expert appraiser by the way if anyone is interested. Can't provide his name or contact info though.. just seems strange.

[ORIGLS6]

Bill,
Not taking issue with you at all, so please don't take offense. As I understand it at the moment, the car IS NOT for sale. If it becomes available, and I was an interested buyer, I also would expect the owner to offer some proof of authenticity. Until that point, why should he be 'required' to step up?
As far as the 'Expert'; I refer back to Charley's post. If he chooses to chime in, so be it. If/when he does, I hope it puts all questions to rest. I think most people on this site have nothing but respect for this individual. I guess I just can't understand why everyone 'needs' to know if they're not directly involved in a 'transaction'.
Just my $.02.
Dennis

[deuce-less]

i believe that if the car is real and is documented...

200k is not enough coin for the car....

after all, where ya gonna find another one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif jmo

[Charley Lillard]

I never heard any 200K mentioned and that in my opinion would be pretty cheap....

[bilede]

No offense taken Dennis, I understand what you are saying and have sense found out whom the expert is and trust his opinion as others on the site. I also understand the owner has no obligation here and not selling the car. I am looking more from a standpoint of the hobby and historical significance of the car to the hobby full disclosure would be nice. I won't loose any sleep on it. thanks for the civil response and best of luck to the owner of a really cool car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I would have liked to see the doc's myself, just to say that I'd seen them. This is the second time I've seen that car, both times the doc's were elsewhere.

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for the civil response

[/ QUOTE ]

And to you sir. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

(BTW, in case you weren't aware; I lust for Cortez Deuces. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif )

[bad1racing]

I have a Cortez Silver car that you still don't have the keys for http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif.
As for this topic.The owner of this car and the guy from Legendary Motorcars was seated at our table at the banquet.Both very nice people.I for one would like to go through Legendary Motorcars on a tour as I think it would be very interesting.I told the owner that I thought that car was KILLER.I'm not a black car guy but man does that car make me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif.I can't see myself ever owning a car like that,but what a very nice investment.
Kendall

[PPPJJJFFF]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a Cortez Silver car that you still don't have the keys for http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif.
As for this topic.The owner of this car and the guy from Legendary Motorcars was seated at our table at the banquet.Both very nice people.I for one would like to go through Legendary Motorcars on a tour as I think it would be very interesting.I told the owner that I thought that car was KILLER.I'm not a black car guy but man does that car make me http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif.I can't see myself ever owning a car like that,but what a very nice investment.
Kendall

[/ QUOTE ]

When someone uses the term "but what a very nice investment" with any of these cars, it http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif me. There have been many that thought that way only to be http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif at some point in time.

Those are just my pennies from heaven.

Patrick

[Born30YrsLate]

I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, but how far has the owner history been traced back...it would be cool to know the life-story of this car.

[Schonyenko2]

That's a good point although I believe his name is know as it should be on the POP that came with the car.
I think it's the real deal, although I'm kinda surprised it was a 70. I'd have bet on a 68, or 69. There are documented 70 chevelles that have the 842 heads on LS 6s, so maybe not such a stretch. I'm still puzzled why GM didn't assign a code for the option on novas.
I think that at some point in time, if the boys from Legendary want to get the kind of money that this car probably deserves, all evidence will need to be brought forth openly. The original owner, individuals who inspected the car, all docs. With nothing hidden, and a verifiable no BS car, I think Charley's right. 200ks probably short. Find another one.
I do disagree on those side louvers being chrome though. I'd need to see the correct unpainted part nbr on them from day one to believe they weren't originally black/chrome edgeing.

[TC]

I don't believe it's a real 70 L89 Nova...I really don't care who the expert is....I don't believe it!

Lets see some GM documentation!

Documentaion, And some experts opinion, are two different things.

Sorry, Thats my opion...I hope every one is Cool with that.




Tom

[Charley Lillard]

There is documentation but because it has not been posted here, you don't believe it is real. The expert even examined the documentation and he believes it is real. The owner of the car owes this site nothing and I don't blame him for not posting paperwork on a car that he is not even selling.

[MikeA]

[ QUOTE ]
There is documentation but because it has not been posted here, you don't believe it is real. The expert even examined the documentation and he believes it is real. The owner of the car owes this site nothing and I don't blame him for not posting paperwork on a car that he is not even selling.

[/ QUOTE ]
The owner is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t present documentation. The owner will have to continually defend his car without putting the documentation out there to support his claim. If he does present the documentation there will be someone disputing the documentation.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[John]

everyone has a right to their "opinion"....but just because you personally have not viewed the paperwork..or probably not even seen the car..does not mean that it is not the real deal. If the person did want to sell the car, then I'm sure he would share the information with the potential buyer ...I do not think at this point he has to prove anything ...so http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[njsteve]

I now invoke my right to see the documentation from every ZL1 and every Copo ever allegedly built, because I dont believe they are all real. And until I personally see them all posted I continue to be a non-believer. Oh, and I also want the VINS and home addresses of where each one is stored.

-Sounds kind of crazy on a larger scale doesn't it?

If someone doesnt want their info out there on the internet, it's their absolute right. It may be based on the fact they dont want the material copied, forged, debated endlessly, or even the possibility of someone tracking down the location of the car and stealing it.

Some of comments posted above are beginning to sound like they came from members of the Harper Valley PTA here. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Where's Mrs. Johnson when you need her most...

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't believe it's a real 70 L89 Nova...I really don't care who the expert is....I don't believe it!

Lets see some GM documentation!

Documentaion, And some experts opinion, are two different things.

Sorry, Thats my opion...I hope every one is Cool with that.




Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay..you say it is not real..PROVE IT!

[lowmile]

It seems to me the burden of proof would lie on the person making the claim. Case in point, I laid out a case for a car I owned (and sold) a while back which I truly believe is a Motion prepared Nova. I laid out every shred of evidence I had on the car and let my fellow enthusiast make there own judgment. I just enjoy the people, their cars and the stories behind them. To me it just seems a little selfish to have such a rare car and not share the story behind it. JMO. m

[TC]

I'm Sorry, Guys

I didn't mean to come off sounding like a jerk (must of had to many beers when I posted that) , I just meant that I don't belive an experts opinion proves beyond a doubt that it's real.

I was under the impression that the only documentation, was an expert looking at the car and saying it came from the factory as an L89.

If it was a COPO or some other low production car, I would be more inclined to take an experts opinion as fact. But on a one of one car that was thought to have never been built for the last 30 plus years, I think proving it's the real deal would require some kind of GM documentation...other wise I expect there will suddenly be more 70 L89 Nova's found.

I don't personally need to see these documents (I respect the owners privacy), but if there is indeed real documentation for the car, that is one lucky owner of one super rare Nova.



Sorry if I ruffled any one's feathers, Guys.


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Tom

[Kim_Howie]

Hey Tom welcome to my world I do it all the time!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[njsteve]

Hey, I enjoy a good argument now and then...it keeps me in practice. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ANDY M]

Ken, when I spoke with the owner at the SCR, he admitted that there were incorrect details in the trim, he had it finished that way because he liked it.
Maybe I'm just partial to black cars with missing trim, but I like it! Someday he'll correct the details, but for as long as he has waited to see this car done, I can't blame him.

[ORIGLS6]

Andy/Schonye,
When I talked with the guy from Legendary (Jason?) he said they knew there were a number of things which needed correction. He said they were under the gun to get the car to SCRX and planned to take it back to the shop and finish the car right. Evidently when this project started, they were headed in a different direction; more of a modified look. When they discovered the L-89 identity, they had to 'change horses in mid stream' and just ran out of time. I noticed (and in my own mind, questioned) the chrome gills too, but assumed that was one of the items they intended to correct.
For what it's worth that's what I was told.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Current count for the aluminum head discussion...6341 views/133 replies....current count for kwhizz Biscayne resto project...37,292 views/624 replies....

What does that mean..?? nothing really http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif just thought you would want to know... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif



ps...I saw the docs for Ken's L89 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
Current count for the aluminum head discussion...6341 views/133 replies....current count for kwhizz Biscayne resto project...37,292 views/624 replies....

What does that mean..?? nothing really http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif just thought you would want to know... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif



ps...I saw the docs for Ken's L89 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[kwhizz]

Current count for the aluminum head discussion...6341 views/133 replies....current count for kwhizz Biscayne resto project...37,292 views/624 replies....

What does that mean..?? nothing really just thought you would want to know...

wilma

And I stayed at a "Holiday Inn Express" Too......LOL

Ken

[TC]

Thanks, Kim

I thought I was the only one that does stuff like that! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Charley.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif brother

Tom