Authenticating date stamps & part numbers

[nuch_ss396]

Guys,

I'd like to start a new post that expands on the problem
identified with the "distributor restoration" problem.

It has become quite apparent that problems can possibly
happen when we send our prized parts out to be restored.
I'm not taking sides is this post, just trying to address
a fool proof way for us to capture our respective part numbers,
casting dates and/or assembly dates for later verification.

If it is getting harder and harder to tell the fakes from
the originals, how do we protect ourselves? I'm not so sure
digital images would help in a court of law - would they?
Stated another way, if I took images of my alternator ID
numbers, then sent it out for restoration, and then had an
issue upon receipt of the restored alternator, what's my
fall-back? Unless you use a really good digital camera with
keen macro capability, the blurred images could be subjective
proof at best. Just look at the number of eBay auctions that
have less than worthy images of part numbers, etc..

If two parties get into a dispute ( like the distributor ),
who wins? If the images I took aren't perfect, couldn't the
other guys attorney attack them?

I guess what I am looking for here is a way to identify
stampings by location and font type/size. I can't see any
other method being fool proof.

What are your thoughts about the proper way to "register"
the stampings pre & post restoration so they can be
compared to each other with complete confidence.

The idea of a "rubbing" may have some merit. That would
handle font size & location ( in respect to each other ).
Regardless of the quality of a restamp, I sincerely doubt
that the character spacing would be exactly the same.

Perhaps the use of a silicone rubber-like product to make
a reproduction of the ID numbers would help. Assuming you
could capture the fidelity of these stampings, etc.. Any thoughts? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Sounds like a good idea for a new product - huh?

Steve

[RamAirDave]

Interesting subject.

First off, I'm always interested in "how" to restore a part/component rather than immediately ask "where" do I send it. I'm always interested in learning how to restore/rebuild a part myself. Most of them aren't that complicated, but when I do have to send something out I have before pics.

That being said, when I start a restoration, I take clear, high-resolution pics of every pn or date code I find before any work is started. I also try to take pics of the part while in the process of resto, as well as once its finished. The same goes for any paint dabs or markings.

The stampings, tags, etc. are so scrutinized these days (and for good reason), so I send all pics/info I have over to CRG (Kurt can attest to that, Im sure http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) because they keep such a well organized db. I think of it as good insurance for if/when something may come into question in the future.

[427king]

I like John Pirkle for quality of work and for restorers that dont know if thier alternators or starters are real or not. You know that if John takes your work in, thats proof positive what you sent was the real deal,its all he will take in and you dont need any pictures documentation or certificates . If you send a restamp,he will immediately on receipt of the part ask you to use someone else. Takes ALL the guess work,worrying and waiting out of the equation ,you can also hand deliver it to him at Carlisle if you dont like your expensive part to leave your hands and if he didnt give it right back to you, you are gold. .. Save the photography classes,tracings and jello molds. Send the latex materials you want to use as a mold to belair, he has alot of inflatable toys that need repair.

[SBR]

I have also used John Pirkle and have been very happy with his work http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[af1fe]

Steve, very good idea on this thread. I am not going to stray way from your reason for this post. There already has been enough of pointing the finger or ramblings on "Who I like" or "I endorse them", or "why my restorer is better than yours". The point is how are we to know with 100% accuracy that the part I send out is the same one I get back. The only way to hit the 100% mark is to restore it yourself. And for many of us that is not possilbe. So that means we have to send the work out, and when we do, we better KNOW our venders. Take the time to ask THEM questions on their business. Be up front, tell them what you expect and if they are willing to perform to your specifications. If they cann't, then move on. Also I own a dremmel tool and digital camera. These two tools are very helpful to me because I use them to record my mark and part numbers. Has anyone ever heard of the DNA pen to mark your parts with?

[VintageMusclecar]

I sat here earlier for at least a half an hour attemptimg to carefully word a response, but was unable to do so.

Why?

Because I couldn't find a way to say what I wanted to say w/o fear of setting myself up for potential litigation.

I can not begin to describe how frustrating that is.

That being said, I would like to suggest the following;

I have never dealt with this company, but I'm going to look into them in the very near future. It may be worth considering for others as well.

http://www.microstampusa.com/

[Belair62]

Perfect for your own peace of mind

[Keith Tedford]

Does this company come and stamp the part, and document their work. Still doesn't do much good if your part doesn't come back. It just confirms to you who the crooks are and you are still stuck with a bum part. Better just stick to John Pirkle and pay the price.

[427king]

There is no extra special knowledge needed in restoring rare distributors and starters and the like that a local shop cant perform along with an individual overseeing that the correct parts and dated ,numbered pieces are used . Any shop that works with aluminum can get the case looking like new and they wont even know what an 837 is anyway, send out for your own dated diodes from a catalogue.send the pulley and fan out to get replayed and a local rebuilder will charge you 34.00 to restore it and then buy yourself a cz stamp. Youll never haver to worry about losing it, having it swapped,or anything else. You can certainly do thye same for distributors > I had Joe Delorenzo do a bunch for me years ago and i got it back the next day. I carefully cleaned it,bought new parts,a new vac advance with the right numbers and i bought a 1.00 bottle of paint for the paint dab. if you cant do all the work yourself you can surely be the general contractor and be safe and save money. Just be forwarned that most rebuilders will sandblast your aluminum cases with 200psi so be careful to state what you dont want. John Pirkle does outstanding work,you will always get your part back, his prices arent real high,but the 8 week plus turnaround time is the only negative but im sure hes very busy man.

[nuch_ss396]

Chuck,

8 weeks is cheap if you consider the down-side http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'd much rather wait a little longer and get "my" part back
instead of 3-4 weeks and a gamble. However, not everyone
can, or will use the best restorers. That's just life. I
still think we need a way to know we got our original parts
back after restoration.

Eric,

I like that stamp idea very much. I think this is the
perfect way to individually identify your parts so you
are sure you got them back. I will seriously look into
one of these immediately. What's the down-side? Nothing.

Steve

[427king]

I know of more than a few guys that will keep thier 837 front cases, and then send out a generic alternator and have it 100% show restored. When it comes back,they take off the pulley and removerthe front case and install thier 837 piece. That way they have a show piece and the 837 case never left thier shop

[nuch_ss396]

Chuck,

Again, good points. You seem to err on the side of caution.
I guess that's smart. But I feel somewhat that it is a
negative approach. Don't misunderstand my position. I don't
disagree. However, I would prefer to send my item(s) out
for restoration and not have to mistrust every vendor for
fear of the apocalypse. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Just kidding. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There has to be a common ground we can agree on. I just
don't have the time ( and energy ) to fight this fight.

THAT'S IT - I'm gonna end up like Bruce Willis - aren't I? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

Steve

[427king]

Steve actually i was trying to point those options out to guys that are hesitant to send out thier expensive parts and cannot restore them themselves . Personally i wouldnt hesitate to send Jeff , John, or any other restorer i use for a part,i havent had a problem in over 20 years with anyone switching parts on me so im very fortunate . Soemtimes if time is a problem you need to restore it yourself or oversee the project and farm it out locally.

[Belair62]

What are you Chatty Kathy today big fella ?

[rpoz11]

[ QUOTE ]
I like John Pirkle ; If you send a restamp,he will immediately on receipt of the part ask you to use someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this statement and support this from 427king!