CARLISLE GM NATS NEEDS WORK!!!! [Archive]

Fast67VelleN2O

06-24-2007, 02:00 AM

I have been going to the GM nationals since the first year of the show, and EVERY year the show gets worse..... LESS and LESS vendors, less spectators, more expensive entrance fees and spaces, and the security patrol people SUCK. Ford and Mopar nats have it ALL OVER the GM show... if they want to save the nats they should lower prices and not give vendors a hard time for NOT having a sticker on their trailer, or the car on their trailer. Either way, that was my rant. I wouldn't mind hearing anyone elses opinions on the matter.

Matt

Paul D

06-24-2007, 06:36 AM

Speaking from an attendee's point of view (not a vendor)I think it's a great show. I'm here at Carlisle right now and have had a great time. It cost me $35 to park my Motor Home right next to the show field and another $30 for a three day admission.

They announced this morning that there are over 300 more show cars registered than last year, and have seen some great surviver Camaros.

The new Camaro's here, as are several GM execs giving seminars.

So from a spectator point of view it's been fun, but I can't speak about the way the vendor's are treated....but I've found several things to buy!

Supercar_Kid

06-24-2007, 06:57 AM

I hear what Matt's saying...I've also been at every GM Carlisle since it's inception (as both a spectator and a vendor) but there does seem to be fewer vendors here this year. The security folks did give us a hard time about parking our tow vehicles behind the orange fence that surrounds our spaces, but it wasn't anything that we couldn't talk ourselves out of. The folks at Carlisle always put on a great show and when you consider the fact that the swap area is ALL GM stuff it doesn't bother you so much that it's not as big as what you might have hoped, since all the Ford and Mopar stuff has already been filtered out for you. As a kid who's literally grown up at Carisle...I haven't missed a Spring or Fall show since 1986, when I was 7 years old...I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather be this weekend. I think the diminishing vendors can be attributed to the simple fact that there aren't that many old parts around anymore to swap amoung one another. With each car that gets completed there's just that many fewer original parts to go around for the next guy...and remember this is PA where there hasn't been much left of original cars for years. Seeing the number of outstanding restos on the grounds ,it doesn't take long for it to start sinking in where all the good stuff has disappeared to. Less parts or not, hearing that Carlisle Productions has signed a 99 year lease deal on their current property is peace of mind enough for me to know that there will be shows/swaps of some incarniation at this location for MANY years to come. Win, lose, or draw...you gotta come to Carlisle. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

427king

06-24-2007, 07:07 AM

If you are looking to view nice cars, and buy new repro parts its a good place to go. If you are either a vendor or an enthusiast who wishes to go and buy used rare chevy parts, you are better off staying home.

Fast67VelleN2O

06-24-2007, 07:18 AM

Sorry i did not specify... The VENDOR area is what needs help. GM covers BOP, Cadillac, Chevy, etc and there was hardly any vendors there. Ford covers Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and that placed is PACKED!!! I brought GOOD stuff priced right. BU 68 Camaro rear, nice consoles, 10 bolt posis, factory tach dashes, carbs, intakes, bucket seats etc PRICED WAY UNDER. I am willing to give up ebay for one week in order to cater to the Carlsle crowd. GM is the most popular brand to restore out there... I do not see why there wouldnt be more people there. Maybe i am just living in the old days of Carlisle???? Every person that i spoke with this weekend while i was selling said that the entrance fee is too expensive, also WHY didnt they cut the grass for us vendors? Its the little things that keeps a vendor there.

427king

06-24-2007, 07:42 AM

I imagine that if most people were complaining about the entrance fee,they werent there to spend much money.

budnate

06-24-2007, 09:26 AM

Matt..I dont think it has anything to do with the event or your stuff...money is tight for joe average I think, lots of stuff for sale locally hear that normally would sell fast or within a week and no takers on most of it...I also have noticed some pretty nice cars at attractive prices from spring till now not moving very fast either on the net and local machines, just my observation over the last few months..kinda thought things would have picked up by now but seems like we are stuck in a holding pattern. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

elcamino72

06-25-2007, 05:44 PM

I agree, that the vendor area needs help, but the show also needs a boost from the BOP and Cadillac crowd. There was a very small showing of any of those four Makes and the swap meet had even less for them.

In two weeks the All Chrysler Nationals will be underway. The fair grounds will be PACKED and the vendor area will be humming with great parts. I don't know why the GM Nationals can't get the same response from the vendors and enthusiasts.

That said, I went and had a great time. I've been to every one so far and I think this year's show field was better than previous years, but this was the worst swap meet.

Charley Lillard

06-25-2007, 05:54 PM

If Carlisle Productions runs all the shows but the GM show is the only one with low turnout, how can you blame Carlisle Productions ? I assume they run and promote it just like they do for the other makes. I thought the show was great but for some reason the swap meet was small this year. With how big the car turnout was this year maybe the swap sellers will be back next year.

69RSZ

06-25-2007, 06:13 PM

Its been 6 years since I took a car to the carlisle show (trailer was totaled by a semi in 2002) and this show me and my neice and her daughter had a good time,Scott gave my neices daughter a ride in the camaro concept car and that alone made it all worth it to see that smile on her face! Scott stopped by my campsite with a surprise guest (Tom Henry)and we had little BBQ with them for a while.Scott and Tom pulled up to the campsite with a awesome looking ZO6,so all I can say is im glad I went!Also Kennys cars were top notch and that L89 RS/SS was awesome! Very nice work by the supercar workshop guys. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif I cant wait till next year!!

agtw31

06-25-2007, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been going to the GM nationals since the first year of the show, and EVERY year the show gets worse..... LESS and LESS vendors, less spectators, more expensive entrance fees and spaces, and the security patrol people SUCK. Ford and Mopar nats have it ALL OVER the GM show... if they want to save the nats they should lower prices and not give vendors a hard time for NOT having a sticker on their trailer, or the car on their trailer. Either way, that was my rant. I wouldn't mind hearing anyone elses opinions on the matter.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

i give carlisle another 5 years,and it will be toast.

the internet has killed the swap meet.

MYSTERYCHEVELLE

06-25-2007, 06:59 PM

What about the Chevelle Show field? The GM nats seems to do a nice job treating the Camaro folks and some others but my fellow chevelle owners continue to repeat that the Chevelles get poor classing, poor at best judging... I took my 66 to the GM Nats once and was so very disappointed that felt it was not going to be worth it to bring it back again.. to put my car in with a 66/67 SS with multiple mods under the hood was just silly.. again, I think the show treats many others well.. and I realize the Camaros have their national Judges, etc there and Chevelles do not have a venue for this.., so that makes sense... but it would be nice to bring a top shelf Chevelle to the GM Nationals and feel like it was going to get Judged properly... as for vendor related issues, I can't comment.

Mike Crown

JRSully

06-25-2007, 07:36 PM

Concerning Chevelles, I feel that the ACES group controls them quite a bit and has many regional shows that draw nicely. As far as parts/vendors, I tell everybody (Spring Carlisle) that if you are not there on opening day on Wed, everything is gone (parts that are rare and/or reasonably priced). People basically go through the sellers pick up as he pulls into the fairgrounds. Internet has definitely taken a huge chunk of the business, why incur the cost of dragging it to a swapmeet when you can put it on the internet, and get top dollar even if you don't know what it is or what it is worth. My 2 cents

MYSTERYCHEVELLE

06-25-2007, 07:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Concerning Chevelles, I feel that the ACES group controls them quite a bit and has many regional shows that draw nicely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking about drawing a large group.. I'm talking about a venue that Judges these cars.. ACES is not a Nationally Judged event.. just another park em and let the participants pick their favorite... nice for those who don't care.. anywho.. that is a whole other topic.. don't want to segway into another entirely hot topic.. my point is merely if you are hosting a show with the title GM Nationals.. you would expect Top Notch fully restored Chevelles to show up and get Judged by Knowlegeable judges.. but the owners of these cars are not coming because the classes are poor and the judging stinks..but I agree, there are plenty of places to bring a Chevelle and be with like company... just few that Judge.

Just my opinion.

Steve Shauger

06-25-2007, 08:06 PM

The Camaro segment of the show is heavily promoted and run by the American Camaro Association. They work very hard to make the show a success for the Camaro group. What needs to happen is the Chevelle group and other brands need to step up and work with Carlisle Productions and make this their national event like the Camaro group has done. It works and the Camaro group is proof that it can be a success. A big draw is that there are around 25 classes of judging offered, from concours to spectators choice. We have the Y building for concours judging, possibly someday we could have all the GM car lines judged in the T building side by side (I can hear the comments and ribbing between the brand judging teams now). Carlisle has a lot to offer, but is up to us to make it happen as organized (clubs)groups.I heard the number of 750 camaros attended.

BTW, from a judging perspective this was fantastic year, we had some outstanding survivor cars ( Al P. 69 Z28, Darrell J. 69rs/ss L78, John H. 70 rs/z, William W., 69 rs/z28 and Steve S. 68 427 Dana). The concours cars were outstanding as well; I believe they had 10 cars.

The vendors base has shrunk over the years, but with the turn-out of cars and spectators this year, we can hope this reverses the trend.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

MYSTERYCHEVELLE

06-25-2007, 09:08 PM

I agree Steve!! Thanks for the comments.

Mr70

06-25-2007, 10:13 PM

Is the Chevrolet Camaro the sole staple of this show?
Besides Chevelle/Elcamino/Monte Carlo vehicles,how are Novas,Impalas,Corvettes,Corvairs,Vegas,Station Wagons as well as Buick-Olds-Pontiac cars & parts represented?
If they're virtually non existant,then why call it the GM Nationals?... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY

06-25-2007, 10:43 PM

Any swap meet is good if you are able to find just one trinket that you want/need. For me, it was a nice pair of old school atlas style mags with the sharp spokes. The $60/pair price made it worth the walk http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

CamarosRus

06-25-2007, 11:05 PM

My .02 ............

1) EBAY has changed traditional swap meets forever. Any seller with eye sight and a computer, can SEE the unbelievable high prices that misc used and N.O.S parts have sold for on EBAY.
2) I am not suggesting that Carlisle Productions and its show scheduling should take precedent over ALL others....
but why must misc other G.M. clubs/organazations be so arrogant/ridgid and not work with Carlisle to grow the G.M. show.
3) The ACA Camaro show this year did have a good Saturday turnout, but Friday and Sunday was minimal. The Camaro Nationals is argueably the best/biggest Camaro show in the country every year. How many Camaro enthusiasts live with a 2,3,4 hour drive of Carlisle???? Is a one night motel gonna break your budget. On site camping is cheap and fun. Ask the www.nastyz28.com (http://www.nastyz28.com) crowd who is turning this into a annual big gathering.

I just will never understand how REAL G.M./Camaro enthusiasts cant schedule THIS event, and take off from work, school, etc and BE THERE to support THIS important show/event !!!!!!!!

Regards to all who extended a handshake to me.........

Steve Shauger

06-25-2007, 11:27 PM

Rick, the name defines the theme or focus of the show. Its not a proclamation, but helps enthusiast, vendors and all others know the intent of the show. To me it is an invitation for all GM brand enthusiast to show or display their cars. The Camaro folks have a heads start because they truly adopted this venue as their national event and organized it as such (the ICC nationals disbanded the prior year). Also It doesn't help that it coincides with another National/large Chevelle event, which I belive really hurts participation.
I did see more of a Pontiac showing, specifically Firebirds and GTO's. I hope this group organizes and promotes it to its many clubs as a national event. I also thought the Olds guys had a good showing as well.

If the Chevelle clubs are interested in a judged event with enormous exposure and potential, let me know and I will put you in touch with the appropriate personnel.

427king

06-25-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:
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Is one night motel gonna break your budget?

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Id have to disagree since the 59.00 hotel rooms at carlisle increase thier rates to 169.00 with a 2/3 night minimum. add taxes and such and its 600.00 to sleep in a roach motel for the weekend. Thats alot to pay for a weak swap meet and alot of overpriced cars outside that cant be bought right. The sole bright spot for the show are the show cars inside,but i dont think id drop over 1000.00 in 2 days solely to view them. Ebay has done alot to contribute to the weak attendance at swap meets by both vendors and spectators, however one thing ebay cant offer is a venue to look at some nicely restored cars,which this show certainly has.

Steve Shauger

06-25-2007, 11:32 PM

Oh, the Corvette folks have their own show at Carlisle later this summer. You know how those Corvette owners are....

Salvatore

06-26-2007, 12:55 AM

I liked the show alot this year. Got to shake hands with some of the guys on the Site and see the great work of the Arones and the Supercar Shop. I even took a new friend that has never been there before. He loved it. Swap meet/vendor area was weak. But what else is new? Carlisle on the whole has been weak in the parts dept for some years now. I blame ebay and the lack of the "non" car guys to do their shopping with out rummaging through the stuff like the old days. Mopar Carlisle is big now because it is only recent that Mopars have been stealin the shows. Hemi's, six pack cars etc. All the GM parts and cars have been used up and sorted through for almost 20 years now. But you guys are right. No excuse for not going. Fun just hanging out with BBBenny and looking at the great cars that are represented. Plus the food ain't to bad either.

427king

06-26-2007, 01:20 AM

Sam, Some of us complain about the show so we can feel less guilty about not going. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bill Rose

06-26-2007, 01:24 AM

The GM Carlisle event used to be a different weekend, then they moved it to the same weekend as the Maryland (A.C.E.S.) Chevelle show which is a short distance from Carisle. There were over 200 Chevelles at the ACES show this weekend including mine. With 52 weekends to choose from, it wouldn't take a scientist to figure out, that the Carlisle event shouldn't have been moved to same weekend as one of the biggest/best Chevelle shows in the country.

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 03:26 AM

I beg to differ, it was moved because it was fathers day weekend, not for any other reason. The Aces group certainly would be welcome, but they like their independent event.

CT Mark

06-26-2007, 03:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ, it was moved because it was fathers day weekend, not for any other reason. The Aces group certainly would be welcome, but they like their independent event.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Bill's point is that if the Carlisle people gave a crap about Chevelles, they wouldn't have moved the date to compete with the Maryland show...which was already well established when the change was made.

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 04:15 AM

The GM Nationals has also been in July and August and again with little participation from Chevelle owners. I don't think its fair to think Carlisle doesn't care about that group. If the Chevelle community is interested, certainly they (the clubs collectively) should contact Carlisle productions and work together to change the date, if that is the only issue. I have heard from several hobbyist who desperately want to participate in a high level judged event. Maybe this discussion should be on the team Chevelle board...

Bill Rose

06-26-2007, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ, it was moved because it was fathers day weekend, not for any other reason. The Aces group certainly would be welcome, but they like their independent event.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what your talking about. I didn't say they moved the show date for any specific reason. All I said was they moved it to the same weekend as the Maryland show, which has been on the same weekend for the past 20 years. If Carlisle is interested in having Chevelles there, they should think about moving it to one of the other 25 plus weekends of the show season. There's plenty of weekends with no fathers day in them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

olredalert

06-26-2007, 05:00 AM

------No,,,Steve,,,How are those Corvette owners???.......Bill S

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 06:02 AM

You know Bill, they are a great group of enthusiast. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
Actually they have laid the ground work for our judging program. Corvettes of Carlisle is a nice stand alone event.

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 06:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ, it was moved because it was fathers day weekend, not for any other reason. The Aces group certainly would be welcome, but they like their independent event.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what your talking about. I didn't say they moved the show date for any specific reason. All I said was they moved it to the same weekend as the Maryland show, which has been on the same weekend for the past 20 years. If Carlisle is interested in having Chevelles there, they should think about moving it to one of the other 25 plus weekends of the show season. There's plenty of weekends with no fathers day in them. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it has taken place on several dates, like the week before, and in July and August. The Chevelle participation has sparse regardless of the date; but I'm no rocket scientist. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I truly believe all GM brands and clubs could benefit by having one major national event.

MYSTERYCHEVELLE

06-26-2007, 06:37 AM

[quoteMaybe this discussion should be on the team Chevelle board...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, trust me, been there done that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

It's always a discussion of the WE want to have FUN group against the WE want our Cars Point Judged group and lots of arguing.. I for one never understand it.. it's simple.. You have a Car Show.. You offer Point Judging to those who want it.. they need to Reserve a spot to have their car point judged by a Chevelle authority panel, and guess what, when they get, their car gets point judged.. those who don't want that type of judging.. fine.. hang out, and participant vote and have that kind of fun!! How is it that my car getting Point Judged at the same show as a Particpant voting show interfers with the FUN group is beyond me!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

As for the amount of Chevelles showing up at the GM Nats thus far.. I can't speak for everyone.. but for me and a few others I know with fully restored Chevelles.. it has only to do with the Judging format at the GM Nats for Chevelles.. I would gladly bring my 66 there again, if I thought it would get judged and not just cast a vote by owners... I have belonged to the MD Club and it is a Great Show!!! but hey.. .Been there Done that... no offense to my fellow MD Chevelle Club Members.... I like variety..

It really does come down to getting enough Chevelle enthusiasts that TRULY want their car Point judged at the GM Nats and getting enough Chevelle Experts to do the judging .. and then it's the Build it and they will come theory.. You coud dmove the GM Nats to OCTOBER and if the judging and classing remained the same, I would stay home. But alas, not the forum for this discussion.. sorry to bring it up.

Maybe we Chevelle guys are just jealous of the Camaro guys and the Fact that they do have a Formal National Judging venue like we used to have with NCOA http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 06:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[quoteMaybe this discussion should be on the team Chevelle board...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, trust me, been there done that http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

It's always a discussion of the WE want to have FUN group against the WE want our Cars Point Judged group and lots of arguing.. I for one never understand it.. it's simple.. You have a Car Show.. You offer Point Judging to those who want it.. they need to Reserve a spot to have their car point judged by a Chevelle authority panel, and guess what, when they get, their car gets point judged.. those who don't want that type of judging.. fine.. hang out, and participant vote and have that kind of fun!! How is it that my car getting Point Judged at the same show as a Particpant voting show interfers with the FUN group is beyond me!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

As for the amount of Chevelles showing up at the GM Nats thus far.. I can't speak for everyone.. but for me and a few others I know with fully restored Chevelles.. it has only to do with the Judging format at the GM Nats for Chevelles.. I would gladly bring my 66 there again, if I thought it would get judged and not just cast a vote by owners... I have belonged to the MD Club and it is a Great Show!!! but hey.. .Been there Done that... no offense to my fellow MD Chevelle Club Members.... I like variety..

It really does come down to getting enough Chevelle enthusiasts that TRULY want their car Point judged at the GM Nats and getting enough Chevelle Experts to do the judging .. and then it's the Build it and they will come theory.. You coud dmove the GM Nats to OCTOBER and if the judging and classing remained the same, I would stay home. But alas, not the forum for this discussion.. sorry to bring it up.

Maybe we Chevelle guys are just jealous of the Camaro guys and the Fact that they do have a Formal National Judging venue like we used to have with NCOA http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand many prefer not to have their car judged, and many don't at the Camaro Nationals, however for restorations to improve there needs to be some objective forum to judge and evaluate cars. Its like taking a class without being tested, are you going to study and improve your knowledge if you know you won't be tested. Sounds like we are on the same page. There are many knowledgeable Chevelle enthusiast such as yourself who want this and who should put their heads together and get something going. If I can help in any way let me know.

Mr70

06-26-2007, 07:23 AM

Thanks for your explanation,input & offer to help Steve.

olredalert

06-26-2007, 08:57 AM

------Steve,,,,As Rick said; Thanks for the return! I think I misinterpreted what you were getting at. I may have been a little thin skinned and if it seemed that way I apologize. It sometimes seems that us "Corvette guys" get blamed for alot and often get lumped together in one big group when in reality we are a bunch of smaller factions that sometimes disagree. From the outside, Camaro guys seem to be more unified for the most part, but maybe thats just my perception.
------I also would like to see some of the other GM marks participate more At the GM Nationals as I believe it couldnt do anything but help. Prior to the very 1st GM Nationals I was talking to Chip Miller and I know that he had high hopes for the GM Nationals to include all the GM brands equally. Bill Miller also told me the same thing. I know thats what Carlisle Productions wants but it appears that the Camaro guys are the only group to really put things together so far. Lets keep a good thought for the future.........Bill S

Steve Shauger

06-26-2007, 04:14 PM

Its all good Bill. I have received some good feedback from many people. Lets hope that we can all make the GM Nationals a reality.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Z-11 396

06-26-2007, 05:16 PM

+++ Steve +++ do you ever forsee that their will be room for the lowly ''Corvairs" at the GM Nationals. or will they always be the outcast <<<Brand >>>... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif....Kasey

Fast67VelleN2O

06-27-2007, 03:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
+++ Steve +++ do you ever forsee that their will be room for the lowly ''Corvairs" at the GM Nationals. or will they always be the outcast <<<Brand >>>... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif....Kasey

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a gorgeous gold 68? Corvair on dog dishes there for sale. Car looked real good, i don't like corvairs but i would drive it.... saw a real nice red one too on torque thrusts