GM marketing finally does something right

[nuch_ss396]

I went to the movies tonight with my kids to see the new
Transformers movie. WOW ! It was absolutely awesome.

I was pleasantly surprised to see one of the good robots
transform into of all things the new Camaro concept car.
Now, I don't want to start a war here, but one of the bad
robots transformed into the new Mustang. What does that tell us http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

The special effects were unbelievable! I'd suggest this
as a good movie for the family. Damn few of those these
days.

GM kept the Camaro concept car's starring role a secret.
Smart marketing move for them. It's about time they went
on the offensive with this car. I'd love to hear Ford's
side of the story. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One of the best movies I've seen in some time. Worth seeing.
Steve

[70 copo]

Fast paced and on the order of the movie independance day. Camaro is the star of the movie. Well worth the ticket just to see the cars.

I think we may see demand for mid to late '70's Camaros go up with the kids. Even that car was portrayed in a positive way. That is rare.

My rating 3.5 stars out of four. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[GRB]

When I was a kid it was said 'As GM goes so goes America'. Maybe it was and still is true. I don't know. But I do know that watching GM slice into obliteration is always in the back of my mind. And maybe it's misguided but I try to buy American more than ever. YMMV

[Keith Tedford]

GM had better do something positive. I was on a two hour drive on a local four lane highway lately. I was amazed at how few North American cars that there were on the road. People have really bought into this Japanese and Korean thing. They will actually pay more for this stuff. It doesn't look good.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
I was amazed at how few North American cars that there were on the road. People have really bought into this Japanese and Korean thing. They will actually pay more for this stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you remember, 1970s American cars were, on average, poorly built and sucked gas. The 1973 Arab oil embargo scared Americans enough that many opted for Datsuns and Toyotas while Detroit arrogantly ignored the Japan threat. Yes, Ford made the Pinto and Chevy made the Vega (and there were a few others) but the Japanese saw a demand, jumped in, and were mainly ignored by American auto makers until it was too late. Not until the Ford Taurus was there a well-built American sedan to threaten Honda Accord sales. America's strong suit has been the full-size pickup but now the Japanese are in that market too. People have bought into the Japanese thing because the Japanese build solid, reliable cars. If I want a 300,000-mile (or more) car that gets 30 (or more) mpg, I buy an Accord. The '90s Taurus, a great car, was as close as you could get to that. My '90 Mustang, which I bought new, was garage-kept*, only driven in sunny weather, and was six years old with 60K on the odo when the plastic window (exterior) trim began to deteriorate. I looked at that and sadly decided to trade it in on a new '98 Accord in late '97. (*I had also had to have the black paint professionally polished twice to keep the oxidation from ruining the paint.) My wife still drives the Accord, it has 165K on the odo, it gets 30 mpg (V6) and it'll go to 300K. I'm not so hot on the Korean makes but I'll bet price is a big reason people like them. In 1991 my sister bought a new Hyundai for 9K. She drove the b*lls out of that car and it finally crapped-out after 115K miles. For 9K in early '90s dollars that's not bad, especially at 30-plus mpg. My wife wants a minivan and I'm going to buy her a new Odyssey, period. Having said that, I am getting ready to buy a full-size truck and it'll be American (and used).

Keep in mind that it was GM** that invented the idea of "planned obsolescence" back in the '50s because they wanted you to come back every two years and buy a new car. They did that mainly with aggressive styling updates and great marketing--after two years a car was just too old and dated and new styles were the in-thing. By the 1970s planned obsolescence meant that Detroit built cars poorly so people would be forced to buy a new car every few years. Well, that's when the Japanese pounced. They may have had help from the Arabs in '73 (who were mad at US support for Israel) but Japan's timing was basically perfect.

One other major aspect is that Japanese cars have been marketed to us as being "smart." Honda advertizing goes right at the "smart" aspect of owning one. We all crave to be seen by others as being smart, right? The car magazine spin on Japanese cars has been positive almost from the beginning (almost). Marketing is usually 90% BS but the Japanese have backed it up with very well-built cars. Lee Iacocca finally saw the light with the K-car and Chrysler minivan and he sold millions. Trouble is, he dared Americans that "if [we] could find a better-built car, buy it" and so we did. Those '80s Chrysler minivans all burned oil. There was a time when every Chrysler minivan I saw on the road had a blue smoke trail behind it. It is extremely unlikely that you'd see that from an Odyssey.

I see lots of older Hondas on the road but not many '80s K-cars. We could whip Japan's ass if we wanted to but Detroit just doesn't seem to want to.

And no, it isn't labor's fault.


**GM also quietly bought up numerous electric street car companies after WWII using front companies, including systems in the SF Bay Area and Los Angeles. They allowed the street car systems to fall apart and cut operating schedules until commuters were forced to buy a car. Mission accomplished.

[427TJ]

When Alan Mulally took over Ford recently, he was asked what he drove. He said, "a Lexus." The press asked him why. He said, "Because it's the best built car there is." That was the new Ford CEO talking.

[nuch_ss396]

Someone should have put that idiots head on a pole for that!

[69LM1]

Two Words:

"Dr. Deming"

Look him up and you'll see a large reason why manufacuturing is where it is in the USA in relation to imports, specifically asian imports right now.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

R

[nuch_ss396]

[quote.....**GM also quietly bought up numerous electric street car companies after WWII using front companies, including systems in the SF Bay Area and Los Angeles. They allowed the street car systems to fall apart and cut operating schedules until commuters were forced to buy a car. Mission accomplished.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

Don't forget that a well known tire company was in that conspiracy
as well. I believe it was Firestone. And yes, you're correct.
The American car makers only have themselves to blame for
their woes. Ponder this thought: If the Japanese had not
cleaned the US automakers clocks, what crap would we be
driving today. Stiff competition breeds better products. Unfortunately,
the big three didn't see it that way until their eyes were opened.
They were dumping total crap on us and they got blind
sided. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

I don't drive a foreign car at this time, but the Acura TL
will most likely be my next car.

Steve

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
Two Words:

"Dr. Deming"

Look him up and you'll see a large reason why manufacuturing is where it is in the USA in relation to imports, specifically asian imports right now.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

R

[/ QUOTE ]

Rich,

Demings work was discussed here previously. He was a visionary and ahead of his time.

Arrogance on the part of industry leaders drove him away. I doubt they've learned much since then. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

Steve

[William]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't drive a foreign car at this time, but the Acura TL
will most likely be my next car.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

After wanting one for years I finally bought a 2007 TL March 31. Used ones are so expensive you may as well buy new.

[GRB]

Any references on that electric car conspiracy? I can't imagine anyone in Detroit or Akron taking that pipe dream seriously.

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone should have put that idiots head on a pole for that!

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what they did instead:



Article by Joel J. Smith/The Detroit News, May 4, 2007.

Michigan's top-paid corporate executives are raking in nearly double what they made in 2001 at a time when deep economic turmoil has cost tens of thousands of workers their jobs.

The average compensation of the Fortunate 50 -- The Detroit News' ranking of the most highly paid executives at Michigan's publicly traded companies -- was $7.1 million in 2006, up 88 percent over 2001 or more than seven times the rate of inflation.

No. 1 on the list is Alan Mulally, who was hired away from Boeing Co. last fall by Ford Motor Co. as its new president and CEO. His compensation package -- for four months on the job in 2006 -- was worth $28.2 million, according to Ford's proxy statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Richard A. Manoogian, chairman and CEO of Taylor-based Masco Corp., placed second with total compensation of $17.3 million.

Corporations are required by law to make public the pay of their most highly rewarded executives via an annual filing with the SEC. Amounts posted include base salary, cash bonuses, stock awards and miscellaneous pay and perks.

The average weekly compensation of a Michigan Fortunate 50 member is 174 times that of what the average Michigan worker collected in 2006, $784.34 a week.

By contrast, Mulally's 2006 package worked out to $541,990 a week over a year, while Manoogian earned $332,560 weekly.

The widening pay divide is a sore spot for many workers in Michigan."I don't know what you tell workers that are laid off about executives at the company that are making millions and millions of dollars," said Pete Lupo, managing director of Pearl, Meyer & Partners, a New York City compensation consulting firm. "If you can go back and demonstrate their pay has a direct correlation to the performance of the company and is within the peer norms, that's the only answer.

"But it's difficult for many people to understand it because they can't relate to people being paid millions of dollars a year."

Executive compensation packages have swelled even as Michigan companies slashed 171,900 jobs from their payrolls over the past five years. Last year, 11 executives from seven Michigan public companies made $10 million or more, according to company filings. In 2001, one executive topped the $10 million mark.

Average 2006 compensation for the 50 people on this year's list was $7.1 million, with the No. 50 executive earning $2.7 million. In 2001, the average was $3.8 million, with the earner on the lowest rung making $1.85 million.

Other findings in 2006:

Base salaries averaged $843,838, 16 percent higher than in 2001.

Bonuses, which include both gifts and performance-based rewards, averaged $1.7 million, up 103 percent since 2001.

The executives reaped about $1.9 million in stock rewards on average as well as $1.9 million in stock options last year.

Executives at 18 Michigan companies made the list.

Fifteen managers on the list worked for companies that lost money in 2006; Ford led the way with $12.7 billion in red ink.

Twenty-one top players worked for companies that lost stock value in 2006.

Nationally known psychologist Robert R. Butterworth said anger is building among the work force over these huge executive compensation packages.

"Workers don't like it when executives are making all this money and they are being asked for wage and benefit cuts or face layoffs," said Butterworth of Los Angeles. "People don't forget these things."

Gary Wolkowicz, a 37-year veteran at Ford's Rouge plant, says top managers are "showing their greed and not being fair."

"It's outrageous that Alan Mulally is making so much money at the same time they keep asking us to accept so many cuts," he said.

Compensation experts, however, say some positive signs are emerging from the pay packages posted this year. More bonuses and stock awards are being tied to performance goals while base salaries have climbed only 16 percent.

While Michigan's economy is suffering, many of the state's larger companies are national or even global corporations. Regardless of the local climate, companies often have to compete to hire and keep top-level executives. That means offering competitive pay and benefits.

In Mulally's case, for example, $18 million of his package was reimbursement for money he left on the table by leaving Boeing.

Andrew Goldstein, central division practice leader for Watson Wyatt Worldwide, a consulting firm with offices in Southfield, said firms in crisis sometimes have to offer huge pay packages to lure new executives.

"Sometimes a distressed company or a company going through a lot of turmoil has to pay more to attract an executive," Goldstein said. "Why would an executive leave a company to take a risky job at a struggling company?

"It's pay, pay and more pay."

(End of article.)


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/Various%20Photos/Mulally.jpg

You'd smile like this all the time too if you knew that no matter how poorly you did your job you'd still be given millions.

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone should have put that idiots head on a pole for that!

[/ QUOTE ]

........."Sometimes a distressed company or a company going through a lot of turmoil has to pay more to attract an executive," Goldstein said. "Why would an executive leave a company to take a risky job at a struggling company?

"It's pay, pay and more pay."

(End of article.)


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a234/BE427TJ/Various%20Photos/Mulally.jpg

You'd smile like this all the time too if you knew that no matter how poorly you did your job you'd still be given millions.

[/ QUOTE ]

AND unfortunately, their financial futures aren't tied to
how well the company performs during ( and after ) their
tenure. That's how the Japanese do it. They tie their
executives financial well being into how well the company
does while they are there and after they leave. That gives
them incentive to build ( remember R & D ), and hire top
quality people, instead of the "good old boys club" mentality.

Honestly, what's the incentive to stay & build when you're
making 28-billion dollars for a one-time stint ( repair mode )? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Steve

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I don't drive a foreign car at this time, but the Acura TL
will most likely be my next car.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

After wanting one for years I finally bought a 2007 TL March 31. Used ones are so expensive you may as well buy new.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Bill,

As a fellow engineer, what's your honest opinion of the TL?
Expensive even used - huh? What's that tell you? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Steve

[njsteve]

Just saw "Transformers" with the wife and kid. It was a 2 hour GM product placement advertisement. It was like I was transported back to the old 1970's days of Quinn-Martin Productions with Cannon or Mannix or Barnaby Jones where every car you saw on screen was a brand new polished example of whatever company was the sponsor at the time. Fun movie, but all the gratuitous GMC logo closeups were bit much after an hour or so.

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
Just saw "Transformers" with the wife and kid...... Fun movie, but all the gratuitous GMC logo closeups were bit much after an hour or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve, what are you - going FOMOCO on us or something? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

It was great to see all those GM logos http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

BTW, wasn't it cool how the mid-70's yellow Camaro transformed
into the yellow Concept Camaro when the girl called the former a piece
of crap. Autobots ( good guys ) & Decepticons ( bad guys )!
This movie is going to be a winner http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nuch_ss396]

Here you go guys!

Say hello to BUMBLEBEE ( transformer )....

http://webzoom.freewebs.com/nuch_ss396/misc/transformers-bumblebee.jpg

Steve

[nuch_ss396]

Here's the movie trailer...... Transformers Trailer (http://jalopnik.com/cars/transformers/transformers-movie-trailer-now-in-higher-definition-274743.php)

[William]

Hello Steve;

The TL is a great car, have 4200 miles on it with 0 problems. There are a couple of things to know up front. They require premium fuel [22-24 mpg] and need tires every 25,000 miles or so. Because of the tire pressure monitoring system Acura strongly recommends having the dealer replace the tires, $800 or so. I'll consider that when the time comes. There is no oil change interval; there is an oil life monitor that determines the need for change based on your driving habits. Common these days.

Very happy with it, just subscribed to XM-first three months are included.

[GRB]

"Acura strongly recommends"....As usual the car makers trying to put everybody else out of business. Greedy bastards. Where do they get the gall to say crap like that. The average tire dealer's tire jockey knows more about tires than anybody at the average Acura dealer. After market retailers spend tens of thousands of dollars on equipment to keep up with the changing times. How the Hell do they think po-dunk dealers have changed tires on vettes with PMS all these years???

More evidence you shouldn't believe ANYTHING a dealer tells you. Lexus dealers and Lexus Corp. are telling us GX-470 owners that a vibration at 55-65 MPH is normal after 10,000 miles or so. That's a nice feature on road trips. They also said a shaking steering wheel on sweeping turns was normal on my wife's last LS400. Another dealer, Hennesy, finally changed the PS pump and resolved the problem. My next car will not be a Lexus.

[William]

The reason given for them doing the tires were the sensors in the wheels. I asked a Bridgestone dealer about that at cruise nite and he about gagged. He said those are common these days and that they had done many with no problem. The last time I shopped tires ['01 Accord] I priced the Honda dealer. They were about 30% higher than everyone else.

Funny you should mention 'Vettes. One of our customers had a new one about 10 years ago and the tires quickly cracked. The Goodyear dealer handed him 4 new ones but could not mount them because they could not get the car on their rack. Same thing happened to me a few years ago at Sam's Club with our '89 Camaro convert-would not fit their rack.

[nuch_ss396]

HEY! How did we go from GM doing something right, to the
Acura TL? Oh yeah, it was me - sorry......http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Steve

[70 copo]

It is official. "Transformers" has smashed all existing box office records.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/entertain...t=entertainment (http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/entertainment/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-9/118362635122910.xml&storylist=entertainment)

[ANDY M]

For a Tuesday, Phil. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
See ya Saturday. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Hollywood's box office record books have been transformed. The sci-fi adventure "Transformers" had an unprecedented Tuesday haul of $27.4 million in its official debut, beating a record of $15.7 million set last year by "Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest."

Am I missing something here?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[427TJ]

If I want to watch a movie I put in a DVD of either "Bullitt," "Dirty Harry," "Magnum Force," "Battle of Britain," "Tora Tora Tora," "Animal House," "American Graffiti," etc.

Can't think of anything worth going out to see nowadays. Oh yeah, I'll go see "Sicko." http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Chevy454]

Bill, don't forget "Outlaw Josey Wales", "Tombstone", "Dazed & Confused", or even the rarely talked about and Belushi cult favorite "1942"... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[427TJ]

I loved it in "1942" when the P-40 landed on the highway. Yep, "Dazed and Confused" is another classic. Wooderson's '70 Chevelle SS was the perfect car for that role. Having graduated HS in 1980, that movie speaks to me.

Now I think I'll put on some Van Halen and crank it up.