One for the eBay record books

[nuch_ss396]

Here's one for the "I can't believe it topic". An NOS '67
L-88 oil pan that finished off at $1,000.00 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

L-88 oil pan (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AME WA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320134827466&rd=1,1)

[olredalert]

-------OK,,,What do you guys see wrong with the picture of that pan??? I know you could buy an L88 engine and parts for it over the counter, but the only car an L88 was ever available in was a Corvette. It seems to me that I have never seen a pan that looked like that on any L88 Corvette. L88 Corvettes used the same pan as any other big-block in the same year (67,68,69), a 6 quart pan with the trap door. Maybe crate L88s came with this pan but I sure dont remember ever seeing one. If this extended pan is an over-the-counter GM part what car could it possibly have come on??? Comments???.........Bill S

[Bill Pritchard]

I don't know if I believe that oil pans from the Chevrolet parts department came painted http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[427king]

No pans came painted orange from gm . It needs a trap door,and it shouldnt have 2 "step downs" only one. Just another case of "if its listed as such,it must be one".Also the drain plug would be offset in the back not on the side , this one will spill oil on the steering linkage everytime the poor new owner tries to change his oil. Then again if he went for a 1000 wrong pan, he probably doesnt change his own oil either.

[Kim_Howie]

The Gibb novas had a replacement oil pans put on them under warranty. That is the same pan. A lot of the cars blew up in the first 90 days. My green car had the pan replaced on it. The cars must been recalled to have this done.

[3macs1]

I have a pan almost identical to this one somewhere.It was off a impala with a crate engine bottom welded on it.Home made for the mud bogger which is what many guys were running that ran BBC at the time in that sport. BBC Vette pans as far as I remember are the same from 65-74 and like Chuck says not two stepped and don't look anything like this l88 or not.
I would say it looks like a homemade pan ended up in the GM box at one time.Cannot grasp anyone not seeing it was not original and paying 1000.00.
I better find mine and get it on e-bay quick. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gifBut I don't have the box.

[Kim_Howie]

pic of org motor

[3macs1]

[ QUOTE ]
The Gibb novas had a replacement oil pans put on them under warranty. That is the same pan. A lot of the cars blew up in the first 90 days. My green car had the pan replaced on it. The cars must been recalled to have this done.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the double hump?? I didnot think camaro or nova would clear a 2 hump BBC pan. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Cannot dispute the picture. Still an impala pan modified but by who GM???.Dam maybe I had a gibb oil pan on the old bogger. Best look for it now.Alwaya learning is the key.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[nuch_ss396]

That's correct! The double hump interferes with the subframe and/or steering linkage.

Steve

[Kim_Howie]

You guys must not of had your tongue just right because here is picture with the motor in with the same oil pan. The first picture was taken just before I dropped the motor in.

[427king]

The 2 humps makes it an impala pan as stated above. I have a hard time believing gm had anything welded up like that,had to be something aftermarket in my opinion . If they wanted a bigger pan, they could have used the corvette pan,which fits in a camaro nova or chevelle and has always been the hi perf pan for the past 42 years,and even today.

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
If they wanted a bigger pan, they could have used the corvette pan,which fits in a camaro nova or chevelle...

[/ QUOTE ]
Regarding stock/GM pans, I was under the impression that the 'Vette pan would *not* fit in a Camaro/Nova...only the stock 4-quart, due to the front crossmember?

[Kim_Howie]

The pan was on the motor when I bought it from Donnie Melton in 1989. The was in his 57 chevy, it was put in his 57 in 1973 he pulled it out of the green car himself. I assumed it was org. to the car. The reason I think it's org. is because I talked to a guy who worked for Fred and he said he replaced around 30 oil pans on the novas.

[427king]

gm has[and still sells] that corvette trap door pan that you see on ebay all the time . Its been going on 42 years now since the first 65 396. It comes[came] on ls6 crate motors,L88 crate motors ,502s and everything in between gm has produced over the counter.

[Verne_Frantz]

King,
Chevrolet had a welded up pan on the '63 Z-11s. They made one pan out of two. It was ugly, but it was made by the General. It was offered over the counter as a "deep sump" for any 409.

Verne

[SuperNovaSS]

My old Harrell Camaro had a pan with an extra length welded on the bottom just like that also. I always thought it was aftermarket.

[427king]

Im guessing that if GM was going to offer a deeper sump welded pan into a nova or camaro,theyd use a nova camaro pan amd alter the bottom , not start off with an impala pan..?

[3macs1]

I would be suprised if GM would take the time to modify a pan like this.I could see it in the 409 situation but not here. Think of the cost vs them setting up to stamp out the proper pan they needed.The welding etc looks terrible and I cannot see GM putting their name on this.
We used impala pans since they we easy to get for little or nothing and we didnot want to destroy a good camaro or chevelle one.

[HiPerf]

That oil pan is an over the counter unit part # 3977591,I used them in a few of my race cars. The oil pan was black when you got it over the parts counter. The part number was later changed to 1409135. The Corvette pan will not fit in a Nova or Camaro.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s254/1970NOVA/scan0002.jpg

[3macs1]

There we go.Still learning. Interesting the pan on the bogger was and still is black.It was home made since many guys made them like this but after seeing these pictures maybe it was modeled after a bought unit. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

[HiPerf]

There should be lots of these pans out there,it was used by many drag racer's. I don't know why more have not seen them. The part # is 14091356,I missed a digit you can still buy the pan today. Here is an other picture.

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s254/1970NOVA/scan0003.jpg

[chads454Ls6]

[ QUOTE ]
No pans came painted orange from gm . It needs a trap door,and it shouldnt have 2 "step downs" only one. Just another case of "if its listed as such,it must be one".Also the drain plug would be offset in the back not on the side , this one will spill oil on the steering linkage everytime the poor new owner tries to change his oil. Then again if he went for a 1000 wrong pan, he probably doesnt change his own oil either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chuck,yes they did

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/yenkot/69-70396-454NOSOILPAN001.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/yenkot/69-70396-454NOSOILPAN003.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/yenkot/69-70396-454NOSOILPAN004.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/yenkot/69-70396-454NOSOILPAN002.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/yenkot/69-70396-454NOSOILPAN006.jpg

[agtw31]

WOW,ONLY A $1.40 TO SHIP AN OIL PAN..

[Rainer]

[ QUOTE ]


Chuck,yes they did



[/ QUOTE ]

Chad - did you buy this pan directly from GM?

[chads454Ls6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Chuck,yes they did



[/ QUOTE ]

Chad - did you buy this pan directly from GM?

[/ QUOTE ]

No i did not,a friend of mine has owned this pan since the 70s and has another just like it that is painted as well

[3macs1]

Sorry but I cannot let this one die.I did my initial mechanic training in 1976 in a gm dealership where I continued to work until the early 80's and I know for sure in those years there were no orange oil pans coming in over the parts counter.Black yes and bare yes.I have samples still of those
Last night a good friend who I trained under when I worked at the Gm dealership was home on vacation and this guy is BBC so bad he even has the cross flags on his upper arm.Mechanic since the late 50's and was a GM mechanic from 69 until probally 95.His comments same as the King no way did GM supply a orange pan over the counter and if Chad has one it was painted by someone before he got it, in the box or not. He said that he spent a lot of time in the factory back then and the orange painting was done in a area where individual parts didnot even get a opportunity to pass through just the engines.
He picked up the phone and called another GM mechanic who was at the dealersip in 64 until retirement and he said the same thing. Never did he see a orange pan coming in over the counter.
Usually when I see a picture that is it for me but the fact this pan came from someone else there is a chance it could have been painted since I know two of mine in the box were primed after the fact since they were starting to rust being supplied by Gm bare.
Don't know Chad what to think right now
Any more 60's GM mechanics out there to chime in. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Mr Yenko]

I second that Chad, I have also seen factory painted oil pans in the box. Only the early ones. Also notice the correct drain plug. Now a days all you see are the smaller bolts with the shoulders.
The "MOF"

[427king]

Joe, There are a few of us guilty of painting a part, and then returning it to gm if it was later defective,or wrong application. The last year run of corvette sidepipe covers were all seconds that were returned and some were even installed first.Ive had a few hundered oil pans in the past 20 years,ive never had one that wasnt either bare or black.Timing covers,valve covers as well....Im wondering why gm would paint something a color that wouldnt match everyones hue of chevy orange. Every tin part ive had from gm was always rusty too, thats why they went to black inside AND out.

[3macs1]

[ QUOTE ]
I second that Chad, I have also seen factory painted oil pans in the box. Only the early ones. Also notice the correct drain plug. Now a days all you see are the smaller bolts with the shoulders.
The "MOF"

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you mentioned the drain plug. Hard to be sure from the picture but it looks to me that the sides are bare metal and the end orange. It would have to be masked off for that to occur. If GM did paint this pan orange would they take the time to tape off the sides of the drain plug. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
King:
One thing that did cross my mind which I know we did when I worked at the dealership was we would sometimes have to install a stock room crate engine which would be painted all orange prior to installation and for display.The pan would sometimes have to be changed on these pending what car we were installing it in and the pan that came off went back into the GM box that the one we ordered came in.
That would place orange pans in original Gm boxes.

[chads454Ls6]

How about a harmonic balancer? THe survivor z i posted pics of a while back had the balancer in the box and that car had been last tagged in 79 and that was orange as well. the owner said he purchased it from a chevy dealer and threw it in the back seat and had never looked at it again until i purchased the car.

[427king]

The 427 balancers GM sells today are unpainted. Every NOS short block,block,pair of heads ive ever seen or owned were unpainted. They had yellow stenciled part #s on them so there was no intention of covering that up . Why not paint the blocks at the gm plant and motors if they are going to paint the pans.

[3macs1]

Balancers like this one Chuck. 454 Bare also as far back as 71.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h215/JoesCars/balancer.jpg

[SS427]

I'll take it, er buy it! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[427king]

Rick, Its just another 1970 nos part listed that isnt for sale to you. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[nuch_ss396]

Well,

I hate to disagree with all the paint haters http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif but
I've personally purchased BBC valve covers and taken them
out of the box ( never opened ) and they were painted orange.

If this situation exists for valve covers, why not oil pans? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Steve

[SS427]

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h215/JoesCars/balancer.jpg

Rick, Its just another 1970 nos part listed that isnt for sale to you. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

At least we know this one really existed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[Rainer]

[ QUOTE ]
Well,

I hate to disagree with all the paint haters http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif but
I've personally purchased BBC valve covers and taken them
out of the box ( never opened ) and they were painted orange.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I worked in the parts department at the local Chevy dealer in the 80's, one of my jobs was to do the "return." So every month I'd inventory and prepare those parts to be returned to GM, which included making opened packages look like they hadn't been opened. We had all kinds of tricks, including the spray paint that looked like cardboard, finding parts in inventory with similar boxes and swapping labels and contents, restapling through original staple holes, etc.

So, never say "never opened" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[mrrec]

[ QUOTE ]
At least we know this one really existed. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Dave

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
So every month I'd inventory and prepare those parts to be returned to GM, which included making opened packages look like they hadn't been opened. We had all kinds of tricks, including the spray paint that looked like cardboard, finding parts in inventory with similar boxes and swapping labels and contents, restapling through original staple holes, etc.

So, never say "never opened" http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Rainer!

I'm shocked http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif that GM would misrepresent NOS products
like this. I'm so shocked that I'm not buying NOS parts
anymore http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Steve

[Rainer]

[ QUOTE ]
Rainer!

I'm shocked http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif that GM would misrepresent NOS products
like this. I'm so shocked that I'm not buying NOS parts
anymore http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, now Steve, no need to get upset. They may have been repackaged parts, but they were still new http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kim_Howie]

I never could leave a sleeping dog alone. I have to kick him to see if he was really asleep. O.K. boys & girls here are pictures of Annie Hartwig's 68 Gibb nova the same car I used to own. The oil pan is adouble humped and factory welded pan which does fit nova's period. This pan was put on the car in 1968 and is STILL on the car. Any Questions!!!

[Kim_Howie]

#2

[Kim_Howie]

#3

[Kim_Howie]

This pic is of LV's 68 Dana oil pan same pan .

[Xplantdad]

Hey Kim...nice talking to ya! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[nuch_ss396]

Kim!

This flies in the face of everything I've been told about
BBC oil pans in the '69-ish subframe. Now you got me
thinking and I need to check into this a little more......

Steve

[Kim_Howie]

Hi Bruce had a great time at the reunion. A lot of great people.

[Kim_Howie]

Dont feel bad I get schooled all the time. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[nuch_ss396]

Kim,

What kind of clearance issues exist with the use of the
"double hump" oil pan? Was it modified in any way to clear
the steering linkage? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Steve

[Kim_Howie]

Steve,
As far as I know none. I talked Jerry Buford and he said they put that pan any car they changed motor in. I'll check with him at the Gibb show about changes in the pan. Kim

[nuch_ss396]

Kim,

While you're at it, ask around regarding the general use of
the "double hump" oil pan on the Camaro/Nova application in
general. What I'd like to know is this: GM obviously had
perceived a need to use the standard Camaro type oil pan
instead of the "Double hump" oil pan in the subframe cars.
Was this to allow the oil pan to be removed while the engine
was still in the car? Was that even a criteria back then?

This might explain why the Camaro/Nova applications use a
different oil pan. In line with this thought, can the
"double hump" oil pan be removed while the engine is still
in the car? As a kid, I remember replacing rear main seals
by jacking up the engine and shimmy-ing out the oil pan. I
can't remember if it needed to be rocked from side to side
during this R&R phase though. I suspect that the oil pan
in question might have clearance issues with the subframe
architecture.

To the best of my knowledge, all of the COPO Camaros and ZL-1's
received the standard Camaro BB oil pan, not the pan in
question here. As we have learned here in the past, the
Camaro ZL-1 engines did not use the windage tray due to oil
pan interference. Same holds true for the COPO's. So why
wouldn't GM, or any "day 2 dealers" install a better oil pan
if they could?

I'm not disputing what your research has brought to light.
Just so damn many questions......... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Steve

[Kim_Howie]

Steve, The pan is almost hitting the cross member. I sure the pan won't come off with out raising the motor. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[Kim_Howie]

I will do some checking this weekend. Kim