'69 Camaro brake caliper problems and questions

[copo69]

I have a problem with my '69 front calipers. First I had problem with car pulling to right so I changed the brake hoses, (few miles but 12 yrs old with silicone fluid) still pulled a bit but after dragging brakes for about 1/2 mi it cleared up and was fine however had a leak between caliper and brake hose fitting. I cannot get the leak stopped. I checked caliper for cracks, none, and hose appears OK. Seating surface on caliper looks OK but didn't get good crush marks on copper washer but it was correctly torqued then slightly over torqued and still leaked. New washers ere about .003 thinner. This leak was static. I removed caliper inspected everything again and bench tested with air but still get leak. I'm ready to pull my hair out. Anyway, I'm just about ready to replace the calipers although I hate to give up these as I'm 99% sure they're original and had them resleeved with stainless by Stainless Steel Brakes 12 or so years ago. I looked at the catalogs and I see "technically correct" so I assume same caliper used for other years. Anyone know what is correct casting #'s for '69 and how many years they were used? One catalog lists cars made before and after 11/69. I can't find any info on numbers anywhere...books or on the net. Anybody know what we need to look for? Any rebuilt calipers better than others? What is the correct finish on 'em...black paint or natural? What are the restorers using? Thanks http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[njsteve]

Find thicker copper washers. I remember hearing somewhere that they changed the thickness and composition of the copper washers and they dont seal correctly on older cars anymore. They just dont have the same crushability/sealing power the original ones did. Even if you have to find an old set of used ones just to test them out, try that.

[budnate]

had the same problem 2yrs ago on the '68..searched hi and low and never found thick washers just the cheasy thin ones even special ordered in a plastic kit full of diff sizes thinking I would get some good ones, it was hell!! mine would barely weep.. I gave up and shipped the car and worked it out with the buyer with new calipers, I assumed the rebuilds I got were not good, maybe not?.

[WILMASBOYL78]

[ QUOTE ]
Find thicker copper washers. I remember hearing somewhere that they changed the thickness and composition of the copper washers and they dont seal correctly on older cars anymore. They just dont have the same crushability/sealing power the original ones did. Even if you have to find an old set of used ones just to test them out, try that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Greg, Steve is right about using the older used washers...didn't mention that in my PM...I ended up using the original washers(37 yrs old) with some new brake hoses and calipers and they worked fine http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif the thicker oem style washers will make for a better seal, especially with silicone fluid. Give it a try..

wilma

[Mr. Chevy]

I agree with the others, try another copper washer for starters before doing anything else. This is the easiest fix to try. The color of the calipers should be black. I believe 1613 semi flat Krylon will work just fine. If you want to replace the calipers Napa carries rebuilts that are identical to the originals. They have the Delco stamping on them. Another thing you may want to consider or check is the fluid level in the master cylinder. You DO NOT want to top it off using the silicone fluid. You want to leave the fluid level approx. a half an inch down from the top of the master reservoir. Silicone fluid will expand in the closed system. Hope this helps ya...

Rich

[copo69]

I have some ordered from GM....maybe I'll get lucky and get some from the bottom of the bin. Do the rebuilders resurface the seat on the calipers? If not could have the same problem with new rebuilds. I know the new washers are a diffferent color than the old ones and appear harder. Maybe a different alloy? I've considered doubling the washers.

[Mr. Chevy]

I believe the rebuilds are re-surfaced. I know people that have used them and had no problems...

Rich

[budnate]

doubling wont work, two smooth surfaces will leak for sure, tried it in desperation also, even knowing better, the thing I noticed is the small ridges on the caliper that are supposed to cut a small groove into the washer and make the seal was very faint/pitted on my rebuilt calipers, they did not appear to be resurfaced at all, that's when I finally gave up and assumed they were junk,

I agree the new thin washers cant be helping much and I also started thinking after the car left I was wondering if the bolt was bottoming out a little and not providing a good crush? do to thin washers,

maybe spin your bolt in and make sure it threads in plenty deep for good crush?.

B.

[copo69]

Yeah, checked for bottoming. Seat has a small nick in it but sealed 12 years ago. I knew doubling wasn't a good idea. Hopefully if GM washers are spec they'll be a little thicker.

[cib12]

go knock around a junk yard and find some old washers-

[m22mike]

If you guys are going to use old washers, you can aneal them by heating cherry red and letting them cool at room temp.
Old time aircraft mech trick for re using solid spark plug washers.
Never tried it myself, maybe worth a try.

Mike

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
If you guys are going to use old washers, you can aneal them by heating cherry red and letting them cool at room temp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike beat me to it, I was going to suggest the very same thing. This method will make them more ductile (softer) and slightly expand them. In metallurgy its called recrystallization. For sure worth a shot.

[copo69]

Thanks for the suggestions but it's already fixed. I sent it to a brake shop where a longer bolt was used to pull the hose down tighter and seal the hose to caliper. He then replaced the bolt with my correct banjo bolt and kept the washer indexed on the caliper. He had a caliper dyno which would keep the caliper pressurized while repairing. Guy does a lot of Porsche and BMW hipo stuff. Sent 'em back with hoses installed. I had used regular caliper bolts that didn't go as far into caliper and the result when I laid the torque to them was pulled threads. The problem was a small nick in the sealing surface that was caused by the tumbling process probably when Stainless Steel Brakes rebuilt them years ago. There is no way to efficiently resurface the seat. Anyway they seal now and the guy was good to deal with. I had started to use the annealing process you described but didn't try it. I think the problem is current copper washers are much harder than older ones and also not quite as thick.