Chevelle updates

[earntaz]

Ya' need to drag that "tech" under the velle' and let him change it ...

[VintageMusclecar]

Here's the original 10 spline disc that was installed when I first built the car. Note the even wear pattern across both friction surfaces.

Flywheel side:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/002_zpshsqs43gd.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/002_zpshsqs43gd.jpg.html)

Pressure plate side:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/001_zpsaxdjpxkp.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/001_zpsaxdjpxkp.jpg.html)

Here's the new disc I just took out, the one that slipped like hell. Notice anything..."unusual" about it?

Flywheel side:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/003_zps1vgmpqm8.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/003_zps1vgmpqm8.jpg.html)

Pressure plate side:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/MISC/002_zps9ee9m2lw.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/MISC/002_zps9ee9m2lw.jpg.html)

Bear in mind that the original clutch had less than 75 miles on it and never once slipped. The flywheel and pressure plate both look good, no unusual wear. There is a slight heat spot on the flywheel now that wasn't there before, but I don't think it warrants resurfacing.

Waiting to hear back from Jody for his opinion before I button this back up again. I'm <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">reaaaalllly</span></span></span> getting tired of looking at the underside of this car. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[cook_dw]

What type of break-in procedure was done on the clutch that slipped?

[VintageMusclecar]

None was specified. I did ask.

[novadude]

I know Ram says &quot;no break in required&quot;, but that seems counter to what every other clutch manufacturer recommends. I would think that any new clutch needs to &quot;bed in&quot; for a few 100 miles or so, just like brake pads don't provide full pad contact right out of the box.

Having said that, I could only wait about 50 miles before &quot;testing&quot; my organic Centerforce disc. I'm not patient enough for 500 miles of &quot;grandma-style&quot; driving. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

I'm getting a crash course in clutch tech 101 on this project.

I've had several stick cars before this, but none were anywhere near this power level--maybe 400-ish tops. That said, I've never once performed any sort of &quot;break-in&quot; procedure on a clutch, I've always taken it out and hammered on it...never once had one slip, even a generic parts store unit. I've had a couple that chattered a little, but I've always just chalked that up as being part of the game with a stick.

What threw me with the 2nd disc (the one I just took out) was how it let go when I rolled into it in 1st gear. Even with this power, easing into it from a roll with a 4.56 screw in the back in 1st gear, I wouldn't think it should slip under those circumstances. Maybe if it'd been a somewhat aggressive launch, or hitting it from a roll in 2nd or 3rd I might expect it. Upon removal, seeing how it was only making contact in the center half of the friction surfaces explains to me why it slipped.

FWIW, I didn’t do any break-in with the original Powergrip setup and it held fine. It seems a bit odd that something designed primarily for racing use would require a break-in—I’d imagine most people install them and take them straight to the track.

At any rate, the new clutch is in (and my back is <span style="font-style: italic">out</span>! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif ). I still have to mount the shifter and bezel, but that's about it. We're supposed to get another break in the weather later this afternoon, so with any luck (and assuming my back cooperates) I'll try to get the car back out for a bit today.

[earntaz]

Good luck Eric ... you've had your share of issues with your Velle' ...

[cook_dw]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: novadude</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know Ram says &quot;no break in required&quot;, but that seems counter to what every other clutch manufacturer recommends. I would think that any new clutch needs to &quot;bed in&quot; for a few 100 miles or so, just like brake pads don't provide full pad contact right out of the box.

Having said that, I could only wait about 50 miles before &quot;testing&quot; my organic Centerforce disc. I'm not patient enough for 500 miles of &quot;grandma-style&quot; driving. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif
</div></div>

That is the process I have always followed. 100 miles break-in varying rpm from 2500 to 3000 to 3500 to 4000 and finally 6-6500 shifts after the 100 mile break-in.. Only clutch that I am aware that does not need a break-in is the iron disc race style clutches. The only Ram clutch setup I had success with were their twin disc systems. I hope you get it straightened out.

[Verne_Frantz]

The last time I replaced the clutch behind the '09 I used an OEM '69 Corvette 11&quot; pressure plate with a woven disc. IT had those little fibers sticking up all over it so I figured it wouldn't hold as designed until those wore off. I didn't want to waste time driving around for many miles before they wore off so I put it in reverse, set the parking brake, revved it up and rode the clutch until there was plenty of nasty smelling smoke everywhere. That break-in took about 30 seconds and the clutch has never slipped or failed with many miles after that including 4000rpm launches with slicks.
All I can say is that &quot;it worked for me&quot;. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

Verne <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time for another quick update:

As I mentioned in this post (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/576602/re-chevelle-496-dyno-results-6#Post576602) of the 496 dyno thread, I was on the hunt for another pair of rectangle port closed chamber heads before the 496 had even cooled off from the last dyno pull.

Within 2 weeks, our own Joe Smith came through with a good pair of 840 casting cores.

I had originally intended to send them to the same porter who updated the 462 heads on the 302 project, but he politely declined as he's trying to get away from working on iron castings (esp. big block Chevy units) in the interest of sparing himself from further back aggravations. Can't say that I blame him.

At any rate, I asked him who he would recommend I send the heads out to, and without hesitation he advised Chad Speier of Speier Racing Heads (http://www.speierracingheads.com/).

After discussing my goals with Chad, he agreed to take on the project. I just received the news that Chad finally had the chance to get started on them, and he posted two sneak peek pics on the Chevelle site (and on his Facebook page as well)

A <span style="font-style: italic">little</span> chamber work:

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv34/speierracingheads/840_zpsklditpvb.jpg

Getting started on the intake ports (click the link, the pic won't embed here for some reason):

https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...amp;oe=559F4566 (https://scontent-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11054880_1090927420923912_9151711118802200875_n.jp g?oh=5dab709a7be8287ef6eefa030b3294c0&amp;oe=559F4566)

More info as it becomes available. </div></div>

Heads are done. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/11012522_1148657938484193_4547851560480481825_o.jp g

Flowed on a 4.310 fixture. 1 7/8 pipe:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/840%20flow%20sheet_zpsqmky1eek.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/496%20V2/840%20flow%20sheet_zpsqmky1eek.jpg.html)

I'll format some numbers later for comparison's sake, but suffice it to say Chad knocked this one outt'a the park. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

*edit* Here are the comparison numbers to an unmodified set of 840 heads with 2.19/1.72 valves to Chad's work:

Speier Racing 840 heads vs. unmodified

--Intake#2---before/after--Intake#4--before/after---Exhaust before/after
----.200-----133.9--151.7--------------134.3--147.5------------100.5--123.4
----.300-----208.5--218.9--------------209.5--215.8------------124.4--164.5
----.400-----234.3--264.8--------------256.5--276.5------------145.9--187.9
----.500-----257.8--292.8--------------272.4--307.6------------162.0--210.7
----.600-----274.1--322.3--------------292.7--332.0------------177.6--231.3
----.700-----271.8--324.8--------------291.7--342.8------------177.3--249.8
----.800-----273.6--340.0--------------292.1--354.0------------178.2--260.4

[VintageMusclecar]

I sure hope I'm not jinxing myself here, but.....

I think we've got it.

I took the car on my usual test drive circuit plus a little detour &quot;just because&quot;. I gently nudged it up....uh....a &quot;bit&quot; over the speed limit and the car is smooth as silk so far. I leaned into it a little bit from a roll in 2nd gear and there was no sign of clutch slip. I didn't want to pound on it just yet, I'll give things a little more time to get acclimated again first.

As far as the clutch itself goes, it's smooth as silk as well...very nice engagement, no chattering in any forward gears and the pedal effort is mild as it was before. There is some chatter when backing the car up, but nothing I can't live with.

The weather tomorrow is supposed to be nice, so I may try to get the car out for a bit more of an extended drive. Once I get a little more time on the car I'll try to get it to the track. Hopefully that will be before the summer is out.

More later.

[VintageMusclecar]

No more clutch problems.

Click the pic.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/th_002_zpsjpehmuz2.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/002_zpsjpehmuz2.mp4)

[SS427]

Love it! Worth all the efforts Eric.

[Postsedan]

This is great news - well done <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

Dan

[WILMASBOYL78]

OUTSTANDING <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Not even a HINT of vibration either.

[MosportGreen66]

Love the chuckle at the end of it... congrats!

[m22mike]

I want a ride... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[69 Post Sedan]

That sounded great although I think you exceeded the 45mph speed limit by just a little. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Kurt

[earntaz]

Yee Hah!!

[mssl72]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MosportGreen66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Love the chuckle at the end of it... congrats! </div></div>

That cracked me up too!! Glad it's sorted out.

[cook_dw]

Congrats man. Job well done.

[njsteve]

How did you shift, steer, and hold the camera, with only two hands? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Most impressive, Sir. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

The chuckling camera-person is (obviously) my lovely assistant Rachel.

I still can't get over how well those M/T Drag Radials work. With the Polyglas', the car would've been sideways 1/2 way through 3rd gear. The Mickeys dead hooked from a 1st gear roll and only produced a chirp going into 2nd.

I still want to put a few more miles under it's belt first, but I'm gaining confidence that a trip to the track just might happen before too long.

BTW, the prepped heads are supposed to ship out today.

[kwhizz]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

I pulled the video down. I wasn't planning on leaving that up too long anyways. I'll try to put something up later that's a little less...shall we say...<span style="font-style: italic">incriminating</span>.

[njsteve]

Remember to always put in the word &quot;allegedly&quot; in front of everything. That's how the media gets around it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Your alleged video was allegedly most enjoyable.

Next time just title it <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;Tesla All-Electric Converted Chevelle With Added Realistic Sound Effects&quot;</span> </span>

[VintageMusclecar]

OK...after nearly 9 years of blood, sweat and gears, after more money than I dare tabulate, after more ups &amp; downs than I can begin to count, it looks like a trip to the digs is finally on the horizon.

I have a friend who's volunteered the services of his trailer and a brain bucket. All I've left to do to the car itself is get the driveshaft safety loop installed, I *think* I've got everything else covered.

We just got off the phone, and weather permitting (and providing I can get the loop installed in the meantime), tentative plans are to take the car to Kil-Kare on 8/27.

I've never been more nervous about taking a car to the track in my life. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif

Stay tuned for updates.

[markjohnson]

Eric, I don't you if you have purchased your driveshaft loop yet but I've always been a fan of these Metco units. They're tailored to the floor pan and look a little nicer than universal ones that have 50 bolts in them!
http://metcomotorsports.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MDL1100

[VintageMusclecar]

I do have an Allstar unit on hand, just have to figure out how to squeeze it in there next to the X-pipe.

[VintageMusclecar]

No go on the Allstar. There isn't enough room to squeeze it in above the X-pipe, plus the ID is barely big enough to clear the 4&quot; driveshaft, there's no room for the fasteners.

Looks like I'll be ordering a Metco, UMI, BMR or building one from scratch.

[markjohnson]

I've heard of people making them out of old compressed air/gas tanks with a chop saw. Just make sure it's empty with the valve open before you start cutting!

[VintageMusclecar]

Update to the track date: We're planning to go this Thursday the 20th weather permitting.

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No go on the Allstar. There isn't enough room to squeeze it in above the X-pipe, plus the ID is barely big enough to clear the 4&quot; driveshaft, there's no room for the fasteners.

Looks like I'll be ordering a Metco, UMI, BMR or building one from scratch. </div></div>

I ordered the Metco loop from JEGS yesterday and it arrived this afternoon. After a little finagling, I'm happy to report the operation was a success. The car now has a driveshaft safety loop, and I <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">barely</span></span></span> managed to snug it up to the NHRA minimum spec of 6&quot; from the front U-joint. It's a good thing I ordered that Metco unit with that big-ass 6 1/2&quot; hoop--at the tightest point, there's about 1/2&quot; of clearance to the driveshaft.

Off to look for a helmet later this evening.

[markjohnson]

Good deal, Eric! Looking forward to hearing about your dragstrip outing soon.

[Donnie]

we want video!

[COPO CARTEL]

Take a look at the date inside the helmet first....they sell new helmets that are already 3 years old. And they check them at the track

[VintageMusclecar]

I remember you mentioning that--as I don't have a rule book, I'm a little confused on exactly what I need helmet-wise. My friend who's taking me down said a DOT helmet will suffice, i.e. a good motorcycle helmet. If I'm going to spend the $ on one, I need to make sure I get what I need and will keep the tech guy happy.

(obviously I wasn't able to pick up a helmet tonight)

[VintageMusclecar]

Found the NHRA helmet rules. Reads like a bowl of alphabet soup.

[68l30]

I once asked about buying a helmet and which one to buy. I was answered with how much is your head worth? Bought the best availabe ...Right or wrong, made sense at the time.

BIG

[VintageMusclecar]

I *think* I've got the requirements figured out, now it's a matter of (A) choosing a helmet, and (B) FINDING one. There's nothing local, it looks like I'm going to have to make a road trip to Jegs and buy one in person if I want to make sure it fits and don't get stuck with a &quot;NOS&quot; (sic) one.

The motorcycle helmet isn't an option, it has to be Snell or SFI rated.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Eric...make sure it has the current Snell rating...the 'tech boys' can be a pain about headgear <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Could've been better, could've been worse.

We didn't get there until around 7:00--my trailer guy didn't get off work until 5:00. We were loaded up and hit the road a little after 6:00. Of course the track was pretty busy as the weather was very nice.

Anyhow, to get to the results.

I planned on taking it easy and just wanted to get a feel for the car on the track. I only got two passes in.

The first was 1/8 mile only, and they forgot to reset the tree back to full from a Pro tree (for the vehicle that ran just before I did).

I didn't even do a burnout. I drove around the water and snuck up to the starting line--it's been 20+ years since I've been down a dragstrip, cut me a little slack.

I staged, brought the rpm to ~2500 and launched the car. Much to my surprise, it dead hooked. I stayed at ~1/2 throttle until the car rolled out a bit and hit it, shifting at 6K.

60': 1.761
330': 5.033
660':7.748 @ 90.27 mph.

Using the standard 1.56 correction from 1/8 to 1/4, that would've been roughly a 12.07 pass.

I quickly got back to the staging lanes and was able to get another pass in roughly 1/2 hour later. Since I figured I wasn't going to get another pass in (they close the lanes @ 9:00 and it was almost 8:45 when I made my 2nd pass) I decided to run it out, and I wanted to try the launch a little harder.

Again, no burnout, just drove to the line. I bought the tach to ~4000 and launched, and the car blew the tires off. I backed out and hit it again and it hooked, grabbed 2nd, then went for 3rd and my friggin' hand slipped off the shifter knob. I got it into gear and drove it the rest of the way down and backed out just before I got to the traps.

60': 2.205 ( <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif )
330': 5.498
660': 8.369 @ 88.22 mph
1320': 12.73 @ 111.28.

I left at least .6 on the table just in the 60' time. The difference between the two 60' times was .444. The rule of thumb is what you gain/lose in 60' you multiply by 1.5 for the 1/4 e.t. That's .66 seconds, which would've also been a 12.0 pass, not taking into account missing 3rd gear.

The car has <span style="font-style: italic">easy</span> 11's in it as it sits...but the driver needs a <span style="font-weight: bold">LOT</span> of work to get it there. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

But....that and a Lincoln <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> get you a cup of coffee at your favorite coffee house...until it prints it on a slip, it's all just speculation.

I'm waiting on video via email. I'll post it as soon as I can.

More soon.

[Xplantdad]

Sounds like you had a blast! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

I did, I just wish my driving skills weren't so rusty. I had an easy 11 second time slip in the bag and I blew it.

I'm hoping to get the car back out there again soon, maybe within a month or so.

[VintageMusclecar]

Two videos are now up on Facebook.

[markjohnson]

You'll get there and on the positive side, you brought home an unbroken car from its first track visit which is alway a good thing. Looking forward to hearing about your next strip visit.

[SuperNovaSS]

Awesome Eric. I'm glad to hear you made it. Won't they require a rollbar if you go sub 12's?


Jason

[VintageMusclecar]

The formal cut-off is supposed to be 7.49 in the 1/8 and 11.49 in the 1/4. SOMETIMES They'll give some leeway.

[kwhizz]

The &quot;Hook&quot; is set..........LOL..........Enjoy and keep the reports coming !!!!!

[scuncio]

Nice 60' time. What tires were you running?

[VintageMusclecar]

MT Drag Radials, 275/60/15.

[EZ Nova]

Sorry, but I'm a little confused trying to follow this thread??

Here's what I THINK (??) I got so far:

1. Do did a GREAT job restoring the Chevelle. It's a BB 496 you did, and stick.

Confusion starts with:

1. It's a 496 that you did a separate &quot;build thread&quot; on. You linked it back a few times. BUT that thread say &quot;Remember, the results up to this point are still with 100% original, UNPORTED cylinder heads with stock 2.19 1.72 valves.&quot;

2. In the update thread you go on to say you got 840 casting in 2 weeks and of to Chad for porting as shown in the picture. Page 11

3. See on page 13 that Chad got some nice results out of the 840's.

4. Never got it back to the dyno? 25 pulls on it with stock heads and NOTHING to figure the new heads?????


I missed cam timing so cant say what I figure the heads help was, say 70hp?? So a 670 hp motor and only getting 12.0's or high 11 with a Mt 275 Dr tire (which by the way probably has the most advances as any tire today for racing)??? I thought hat car should have been over a second faster. My '69 Nova set-up like this (M21, 4.56, 9&quot; slick) but with a lil mild 396 went 10.47. Basically a STOCK balance L-78 STANDARD bore 402 with only ARP rod bolts. Stock pan, PORTED 840's, but did have a strip dom intake and reworked holley 800. UT I did have a solid roller .660 cam.

Seems like you know what your doing, and been around these cars for a while, but what are we missing???

John

[VintageMusclecar]

(1) 496 is still running with UNported heads--just received new heads from Chad, haven't gotten them installed yet. Motor made just over 600 on the dyno (30 pulls) in current form.

(2-4) Heads aren't even built yet, will be built and will go back to the dyno shortly.

First, remember this is a NEW combination that's only been down the track twice. First pass was an EASY pass and went 7.74 @ 90+ with a soft launch and short shifting. That equates to ~12.07--again, on a soft pass. It only 60'ed 1.76.

The 2nd pass blew the tires off losing over .4 in the 60' AND I missed 3rd gear. I just drove it the rest of the way down the track, still went 12.7 @ 111.

Both runs were also with cold tires--I didn't even do burnouts, just wanted to get a feel for the car on the track.

Like I said, the car has EASY 11's in it as it sits, it's the DRIVER (me!) that needs work. I haven't made a pass down a dragstrip in over 20 years! Give me some time to get the hang of this again and to get the car shook down.

There's <span style="font-weight: bold">plenty</span> left in it!

[Jim Ferron]

Eric, Man it's great to see you have so much enthusiasm for getting your combo dialed in! My get up and go...got up and left.

Please update us all on you combo [I've sure it's listed more than once in the 55 pages ..

496 4 speed I know..[true 496 or 489?]

Carb?
Gear?
Intake manifold?
Distributer?
Heads big port open chamber?
Compression ratio?
Roller cam?

Thanks, When you are done with your car will you do mine for me? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim Ferron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric, Man it's great to see you have so much enthusiasm for getting your combo dialed in! My get up and go...got up and left.

Please update us all on you combo [I've sure it's listed more than once in the 55 pages ..

496 4 speed I know..[true 496 or 489?]

Carb?
Gear?
Intake manifold?
Distributer?
Heads big port open chamber?
Compression ratio?
Roller cam?

Thanks, When you are done with your car will you do mine for me? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif </div></div>


Thank you Jim. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif

496: 4.310 X 4.250
10.5 compression
BONE STOCK 291 heads (soon to be replaced with ported 840's)
2.19 1.72 valves
Crane 131311 solid flat tappet cam: 256°/264° @ .050, .618/.638 lift
Crane stamped steel 1.7 rockers
99893 springs
163 intake, stock except for plenum divider removed
1000 HP Holley built in-house
OEM points distributor with Crane XR-i electronic conversion
Hedman 65002 headers (2&quot; primary 3&quot; collector)
3&quot; Torque Tech exhaust w/X-pipe and Walker #17665 3&quot; mufflers
Legend 5 speed manual trans: 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, .69 OD.
12 bolt with 4.56 gears
M/T Drag Radial 275/60/15
Car weight-unknown at this time but approx. 3800+ with me in it

I would be more than happy to help you with yours any way I can.

[VintageMusclecar]

First pass--I wasn't expecting it to hook, took me a bit by surprise:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/th_1_zpsn12otl7n.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/1_zpsn12otl7n.mp4)

Compare to 2nd pass where you can clearly see it blew the tires off the line. Also note the track guy mopping fluid from my lane from the car before me:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/th_2_zpsx2xu4k3v.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/2_zpsx2xu4k3v.mp4)

Alternate view of 1st pass:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/th_082015_1_zpso2ehvrxk.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/082015_1_zpso2ehvrxk.mp4)

Alternate view of 2nd pass--note the car nose over about mid-track...this is when my hand slipped off the shifter causing me to miss 3rd gear. I stuffed it back in gear and drove it the rest of the way down:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/th_082015_2_zpsekbfo4b1.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/082015_2_zpsekbfo4b1.mp4)

Time slips:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/Timeslips%20082015_zpsydg3usa2.jpg (http://s33.photobucket.com/user/VMCP777/media/496%20V2/Timeslips%20082015_zpsydg3usa2.jpg.html)

[Jim Ferron]

If memory serves me the 291 and 840 heads are semi interchangeable [except maybe for the spark plugs..one was a small plug if I remember..] I think they CC'ed within 1 0r 2 CCs...

Are you thinking maybe you'll need a bigger, better intake manifold with the ported heads?

Any reason you went closed chamber in the original build?

[VintageMusclecar]

I have several intakes I can use, but I'm planning on staying with the stock 163 as I don't think it will be much (if any) of a restriction on this build. I've already tested a heavily ported Holley Strip Dominator on this engine (during the last dyno session) and the power differences were low single digits.

Why I chose closed chambers--I wanted to see what I could do with them since everyone's always so quick to dismiss them.

[markjohnson]

Oh snap! I didn't realize that you had the infamous Crane #131311 camshaft in that motor. Crane really hit onto something with that great camshaft and Ive known many cars that have flown with it. One in particular was an early Camaro , crate LS6 with that exact camshaft that spit out 10.60's.

[EZ Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: markjohnson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh snap! I didn't realize that you had the infamous Crane #131311 camshaft in that motor. Crane really hit onto something with that great camshaft and Ive known many cars that have flown with it. One in particular was an early Camaro , crate LS6 with that exact camshaft that spit out 10.60's. </div></div>

DAMN!!


Eric, thanks for clearing that up. I see problems in your NEAR future!!!! When you switch out the heads, you might as well put the rollbar in?:(
Not sure about your track there, but around here I think 11.99 they are looking for them, 11.49 I think it's a MUST unless your a late model 'Vette/Viper.

Good luck. I &quot;might&quot; get around to posting my ZL-1 build. Been a couple years in the making, but I'm sure it will be worth it.

BTW, how do you like the Legend 5sp? What are they rated for? I have a Nash 4+1 for my '69 Nova I'm think about using, but not 100% on that? I haven't seen much on-line with regards to what these trans can handle? Looking for 900Hp 800lbs/ft range in a 3000lbs car for the street.

John

[VintageMusclecar]

John;

The car has EASY 11's in it now, like I said though the driver (me!) needs a LOT of practice to get it there though.

The &quot;official&quot; cut-off is supposed to be 11.49 for a rollbar (excluding some late model stuff), but often there's some discretion involved, at least on T&amp;T night. I know of two other local racers who've already been in the low 11's w/o a bar or cage and they haven't been sent packing yet.

I would be very interested in seeing your ZL1 build.

So far I'm very happy with the Legend. As I've said previously it's BIG and it's pretty heavy, and it is a little noisy when it's cold--much like an M22, but it quiets down once it's warmed up.

Is your Nash an early torque tube type?

As an aside, I made an interesting discovery with the Chevelle today, follow-up post coming in a moment....

*edit* waiting on Photobucket to do its thing with a video <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

FINALLY!

No WONDER I couldn't find/hit my shift points.

Click the pic:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/th_Tach_zpstwupzncf.jpg (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/496%20V2/Tach_zpstwupzncf.mp4)

[Postsedan]

I would think that tach can be repaired.....no need for a new one. I really like the 10 grand tach.

Dan

[VintageMusclecar]

I've lost confidence in it at this point, going to step up to a better unit (Autometer) and be done with it.

[Dicky]

Eric, please do not race below the sanctioning times
W/O a roll bar that meets requirements. Because others are getting
away with it is not a reason!!!

Dicky

[EZ Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John;

The car has EASY 11's in it now, like I said though the driver (me!) needs a LOT of practice to get it there though.

The &quot;official&quot; cut-off is supposed to be 11.49 for a rollbar (excluding some late model stuff), but often there's some discretion involved, at least on T&amp;T night. I know of two other local racers who've already been in the low 11's w/o a bar or cage and they haven't been sent packing yet.

I would be very interested in seeing your ZL1 build.

So far I'm very happy with the Legend. As I've said previously it's BIG and it's pretty heavy, and it is a little noisy when it's cold--much like an M22, but it quiets down once it's warmed up.

Is your Nash an early torque tube type?

As an aside, I made an interesting discovery with the Chevelle today, follow-up post coming in a moment....

*edit* waiting on Photobucket to do its thing with a video <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif </div></div>

Eric, WATCH that T&amp;T running faster! I did that with my Nova back YEARS ago (1996 maybe). Went to a T&amp;T and was still 1/8 miling the car due to no rollbar. Well to other cars pitted by me were UNDER the 11.49. One was 11.20's and the other went 10.80's, like 3/4 passes each. So I went the full 1/4. The only time I did that with that combo, 1 1/4 pass. Went 10.47. Guy came over like nothing saying nice car, how fast what's done etc etc. Well he was THE track guy and promptly told me I was done for the day! I told him it must be a mistake as the cars not that fast. I want and asked for 1 more run, out the back door just to see that it wasn't that fast (lol I knew it was a mid 10 car). I wanted to try the NOS on the last hit, but wasn't allowed.

My Nash is set-up as torsion tube at this time. But I also have a whole gear set and tube to make a NON torsion tube trans as well.

My '69 Nova that the ZL_1 is going in with the Nash is a FULL 10 point, 8.50 certified car now. Car will look &quot;mostly&quot; stock. Will have headers, shifter, rollbar. I'm thinking of keeping the 15X8 rallys with a 275 Dr PRO tire. Looking for low low 9's or maybe an 8 with &quot;198&quot; intake on too.

Just a mild little streetcar! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Just had the Chevelle weighed at the local grain elevator--scales are accurate within 20 lbs. With me in it and ~1/2 tank of fuel, 3960 lbs.

Yep. It's a tank.

[markjohnson]

Heavy, manual transmission cars are the most destructive force known to mankind!

[VintageMusclecar]

(Also posted on Facebook, please forgive the redundancy, don't know if anyone here reads my posts there or not)

I decided to replace the faulty Sunpro tach in the Chevelle with an Autometer unit...actually, TWO Autometer units--a conventional 5&quot; 8000 rpm monster tach (#3980) AND a combination mini tach &amp; programmable shift light (#5350).

Why 2 tachs? Several reasons;

The 3980 for general purposes--easy to read at a glance. The 5350 will be used mainly as a shift light--it can be programmed for up to 5 separate shift points including a launch rpm light. Aside from the separate shift lights, the most appealing feature of the 3980 is that it can play back up to 90 seconds of engine rpm when hooked to a conventional tach.

I ordered them in and got them on the 25th, and installed them on the 26th. The instructions were followed to the letter.

The 3980 works perfectly.

The 5350...not so much. It wouldn't go into tach mode to read rpm.

I called Autometer tech, and after verifying the wiring was hooked up correctly, the tech instructed me to return the unit to Autometer for repairs.

So I'm back to &quot;hurry up and wait&quot; mode. I'm looking forward to another track outing once I get the light back in the car.

More eventually.

[VintageMusclecar]

Two updates to post:

1) The tach issue has been resolved, I'll try to post more details tomorrow or Saturday.

2) I've purchased a trailer hitch system for my Suburban so I'll be able to tow the car myself instead of having to rely on someone else. The parts should be in tomorrow or Monday, so hopefully by next week I'll get everything installed an operational.

I don't have my own trailer (yet), but a close friend has a new 18' 10K lb open trailer which he's going to let me use whenever I need (as long as he isn't using it at the time of course).

[VintageMusclecar]

The Suburban is now equipped with a class 4 Curt trailer hitch along with a shiny new rear bumper to replace the rusted out original.

A trailer brake and harness will be installed shortly, and since I have access to a trailer now, with any luck the Chevelle will be back to the track before the end of the month.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/09/full-1124-31909-001.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/09/full-1124-31910-002.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/09/full-1124-31911-003.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2015/09/full-1124-31912-004.jpg


More soon--I hope.

[Donnie]

Eric,
cant go wrong with this controller https://www.southwestwheel.com/store/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=4751&amp;SEName=tekonsha-prodigy-p2
and you can get a plug and play harness.

[njsteve]

How did you like the weight of that old bumper! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/shocked.gif Holy crap they are heavy. I replaced mine with another used one off craigslist and was shocked by how heavy it was, and by the area behind the bumper that must have been a trap for salt and moisture - very crusty! Used a lot of POR15 back there to seal it up.

Where did you get the new bumper? Most are reasonable in cost but the shipping is a killer. I need a front bumper for my diesel K2500 Suburban (diesels have the two air inlet holes on either side of the license plate bracket) but the shipping costs are painful at the moment.

[COPO CARTEL]

Eric we need to get out to Xenia before the season is over and have some fun

[VintageMusclecar]

Donnie;

I already have a Curt controller, having a friend install it (and the trailer light harness) for me in trade for setting up his Dominator for more civilized street manners. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cht-51110

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/cht-51110_ml.jpg

Steve;

They're definitely not lightweights, that's for sure. I purchased mine locally here (http://www.replacementautoparts.com). It comes with new mounting hardware, a new licence light harness, and even comes with new outer braces. I re-used the original outer braces as I would've had to drop the tank to access the fasteners on the top of the frame--that ain't happening. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif And yes, there's rust o'plenty back there. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if I wound up having to replace the frame on this thing eventually. (strong sentimental attachment to this truck, plan on keeping it for as long as practically possible)

Doug;

That's precisely what I'm trying to do! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif There's no sense in having my friend trailer me down again since we can't make it there until after 7:00 at best, which only leaves time for 2 or 3 runs...pretty much a waste of time. Once the `Burb's capable of towing, I can be there before 5:00 when the gates open.

I have a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">LOT</span></span></span> of lost time to make up for!!! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif

[earntaz]

Eric -- it appears the bumper you removed is totally &quot;used up&quot; ... TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

It was--local trash pickers came by yesterday evening and scooped it up for scrap metal.

[VintageMusclecar]

Knocked the winter garage dust off and took the car out for the first time this year...took a friend for a little ride...maybe he'll chime in. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif

Kil-Kare will be opening soon...just sayin' <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

C'moooooon springtime!!!!!!

[mockingbird812]

I'm the &quot;friend&quot; from above. Was picking up my rebuilt &quot;4346&quot; from Eric. Embarrassed to say the least. Here is what a neglected Holley looks like on the inside! ArRrGgggh!!!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-1691-40512-img_7284.jpg

Now, on to the more important stuff. Eric, being the consummate customer-focused business man, felt obliged to show his customer (me) what a well built carburetor (and a well built motor) can do for an A body. So we went for a pre-Spring shake down &quot;cruise&quot;. Well the cruise lasted exactly 8 minutes till we made the outskirts of town and then all hell broke loose. Car hooked real good and set my eyeballs to the backs of their sockets. But, that's what 600+ ft lbs of torque and grippy tires will do. Eric - I am a satisfied customer. I'll be getting the carb back on my L78 this weekend and I can't wait to here her rumble again!

Thanks Eric!

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Thank you Sam, it was my privilege. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[EZ Nova]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just had the Chevelle weighed at the local grain elevator--scales are accurate within 20 lbs. With me in it and ~1/2 tank of fuel, 3960 lbs.

Yep. It's a tank. </div></div>

3960!!!! Are you serious?? DAMN you a &quot;portly&quot; guys Eric. I know a few guys that RUN 67 Chevelle's, John Wilson Red '67 was 3615 and &quot;Crazy Dave's '67 is 3508. John's was pump gas and OEM oval port heads and motor from VortecPro Mark Jones. Crazy's '67 was a Struab tech pump gas hyd roller with were auto trans too?

My '61 Pontiac with 409 and 4 speed was only 3780, me 218 and a half tank of gas. Man that car is your is heavy!!!!!!!

[olredalert]

----Red Alert was 3980 with my 200lbs in the drivers seat and about 5 gallons of 110 octane aboard......Bill S

[VintageMusclecar]

&quot;Portly&quot;???...wtf? Now I'm a fatass...that's nice.

The car weighed 3680 without me in it and with ~ 1/2 tank of fuel. That's with an iron head big block, bench seat, steel wheels, a (heavy-ass) Legend 5 speed manual gear box, a Quicktime steel scattershield &amp; block plate, and a full 3&quot; exhaust out the back.

[Lynn]

Wouldn't describe Eric as portly. Just a big guy.

Eric, is that cross section of the new trailer hitch 3&quot; or 4&quot; square tubing. I am getting ready to make a hidden hitch for my 68 El Camino, using a 69 Camaro fold down license plate to hide the receiver. I have some 4&quot; tubing I think will do for the cross piece.

[VintageMusclecar]

Thank you Lynn.

For the record (but not that it matters), I'm 6' and hover somewhere around 275-280. Yes, I've got a bit of a belly--but I can also bench &amp; squat (ass to ankles, no chicken-shit 1/2 squats) 315+, and that's with bad knees, a bad back <span style="font-style: italic">and</span> bad shoulders...I think that's fairly respectable for a 50 year old fart.

I'll get a measurement on the hitch for you shortly.

[Lynn]

Dude, I've got corns older than you.

[Lynn]

OOPS. This was meant as a pm.

[EZ Nova]

LOL sorry Eric, didn't know &quot;how&quot; to word it, so just used &quot;PORTLY&quot;?

Was away on vacay in sunny Arizona and away from my computer, or better stayed AWAY from it. That's pretty go with the weights. I too just turned 50, also 5'10&quot; but I'm only 225. Can still &quot;preacher curl&quot; 4 plates on a bar on the bench as well. I have ALWAYS had a belly but also 50&quot; chest with it.

[VintageMusclecar]

Nothing like doing a job over because of garbage repop parts.

Notice anything--eh--amiss here?

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42393-001.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42394-002.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42395-003.jpg

Notice how the frame bracket for the clutch Z-bar has bent severely inboard towards the engine.

To recap: someone had pilfered the original Z-bar bracket from the car's frame before I bought the car. Naturally, I was unable to source a good original bracket (we won't even talk about the rest of the clutch linkage...), so I was forced to go with a repop. At the time, there was only one available, and it was notably thinner (--1/8&quot; to be specific--) than an original component. Something told me this was going to come back to haunt me later...as usual, I was right--as the pictures show. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

Thankfully, someone now reproduces the bracket in the original 3/16&quot; thickness. I picked one up a couple of months back and called in a favor from a friend to cut off the old bracket and weld the new one on for me (he's a far better welder than I am).

New bracket in place:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42396-004.jpg

Remnants of the old bracket--effortlessly crumpled like tinfoil.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42397-005.jpg

Now comes the fun of trying to get the inner fender back in place w/o borking anything up in the process.

Can't let the cat out of the bag just yet, but there may be more updates in about a month.

More soon--I hope.

[earntaz]

I just wonder how the hell (whoever made that piece) they thought 1/8 material would stand up??? TAZ

[Postsedan]

I love cats in the Bag.....looking forward to you letting her out ;-)

Well done as usual <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

Dan

[VintageMusclecar]

It's back together.

One thing's for certain--wrasslin' that damned inner fender out of and back into the car ranks right up there with ripping back a fingernail or getting fragged by an exploding cut-off wheel on the old fun-o-meter. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

On the plus side, the clutch pedal feels <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">MUCH</span></span> better, and we even nailed the clutch adjustment on the first try.

Now if I can just find the gumption to get the car converted back over to power steering...(this thing is a serious bitch to maneuver &amp; park!)

More soon--mebbie next month...here's a hint... <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/3gears.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

The last piece(s) of the puzzle.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/04/full-1124-42907-hitch_ball.jpg

God willing and the creek don't rise, I hope to get the car back to Kil Kare this Thursday.

[earntaz]

Good luck Eric <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/drool.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

One step forward, two steps back.

So I finally got around to swapping out the manual steering for an original power set-up...got sick &amp; tired of wrasslin' that uncooperative sumbitch into tight parking spaces, etc. (--if Rachel ever had to drive the car, there would be <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">no way</span></span> she'd be able to maneuver it at low speeds <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif )

So....

Out with the old:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43734-001.jpg


Vacancy:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43735-002.jpg


Remote reservoir mounted:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43736-003.jpg

All ready to install (--or so I thought)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43737-004.jpg



(The Pitman arm was just slipped on 180° out temporarily while I wrestled the new rag joing on)


Aaaaannnnnnnd.....we come to a screeching halt yet again.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43738-005.jpg

*Edit* Mystery solved---apparently the PS pulley is correct and I need a 3 groove crank pulley.

More shortly...

[earntaz]

Ouch!!!

[427TJ]

You and Kwhizz make for fascinating reading! Inspirational too.

[VintageMusclecar]

Joe Smith to the rescue!

Joe ROCKS! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif

I was unaware that the big blocks with power steering took a 3 groove crank pulley. Looking at the installation it seemed somewhat obvious that the PS belt should've ran on the unused groove on the 2 groove pulley arrangement, but alas....GM, again in their inimitable wisdom ( <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif ) thought it better to throw yet another monkey wrench into the mix.

A few quick calls to Joe yesterday got me the info I needed, and by sheer luck, Joe had the 3 groove pulley I needed--not only that, he went <span style="font-weight: bold">WAY</span> above &amp; beyond and got it to me overnight!

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43796-001.jpg


Why the rush?--because I'm trying my best to get the car back together &amp; ready to take to Kil Kare tomorrow, and seeing as how for the last month + all but ONE test &amp; tune session has been cancelled due to rain and the forecast for tomorrow is SUPER-nice, I don't want to waste another opportunity if I don't absolutely have to.

That said, it's all back together now save for a belt for the power steering pump and filling &amp; bleeding the system (and praying for no leaks &amp; the steering box works!)

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43797-002.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43799-003.jpg

The only other concern I have at the moment is the proximity of the return hose to the #1 header tube. In the pic below the pump is slid inwards towards the engine (for belt installation) so the hose is very close to the tube, but with the pump slid towards the outer end of its adjustment (after the belt is installed &amp; tightened) there's notably more room.

(Sorry for the ultra-crappy pics! My shop is little more than a Dungeon, so lighting for decent pics is SORELY lacking! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif )

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43800-004.jpg


The thing that confuses me is the return nipple on the back of my pump housing points upwards while the AIM (and several other reference pics I've found) show the factory return nipple pointing downwards--which would alleviate the issue with the header tube. Not sure what the deal is there yet, but I'll get it figured out--eventually.

Rachel's out running parts right now, so as soon as she gets back I'll head to the parts store and pick up the belt.

Fingers crossed! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427TJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You and Kwhizz make for fascinating reading! Inspirational too. </div></div>

&quot;Fascinating&quot;...lol...I suppose that's one way to put it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[earntaz]

(Sorry for the ultra-crappy pics! My shop is little more than a Dungeon, so lighting for decent pics is SORELY lacking! frown ) Aaaah ... but what beasts come from the dungeons -- and I thought I was the only one with same. TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnddddddd..........

.........................................
.........................................
.........................................
.........................................
.........................................


Drumroll.................................
.........................................
.........................................

After three (count `em...<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">THREE</span></span></span>) trips to the parts store(s) to find a belt that fits...we have power steering.

FWIW, with the 3 groove crank pulley and the 3873847 PS pulley, a .410&quot; wide (10 mm) by 51&quot; belt should be just about right. I have a 51.5&quot; belt and it's just a skosh looser than I'd care for with the adjustment maxed out.

Gott'a wait `till the system de-foams a bit before I can test drive it, but I was able to turn the wheel back &amp; forth with 1 finger. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

SO FAR---no runs, no drips, no errors...save for the slight mess I made spilling PS fluid while trying to fill the reservoir with the engine running (the car does shake a little after all...)

Fingers crossed...more shortly..I hope!

[VintageMusclecar]

Test drives are complete. I had to re-clock the steering wheel, but that aside, the car is <span style="font-weight: bold">MUCH</span> nicer to drive now, and tight spot maneuverability is <span style="font-style: italic">vastly</span> improved! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

Also, a couple of weeks ago I made a few minor adjustments to the idle circuits on the carb. This seems to have cleared up the part-throttle hiccups the car was experiencing between 1500-2000 rpm.

Now if I can just remember not to try to lug this thing down below 1500 rpm while cruising through town. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smirk.gif

Assuming there aren't any unforeseen snafu's tomorrow, Kil Kare appears to be a go.

[VintageMusclecar]

SO!!!...

What happens when you mix 4,000+ lbs of `60's musclecar with 600+ lb.ft of torque, a 5 speed manual trans, a 3500 rpm launch with sticky tires and a 12 bolt rear end?...

Took the Chevelle back to Kil Kare today for another shot at redemption.

Pfft...yeah, right.

I'm now 0 for 2.

Got there at 5:30, zoomed through tech, hot-footed it over to the staging lanes, and promptly sat until after 7:00 before I got to make--er--TRY to make my first pass.

SUPER-light burnout...rolled up to the lights, brought the tach up to 3500, aaaaaaaaaaannnnddddd.......

The 12 bolt gave up the ghost right there in front of God &amp; everybody--the thing barely even lurched off the line.

Video below (please excuse the potty mouth), post-mortem pics of the 12 bolt once I get the car off the trailer and on stands in the garage.

Oh, on the plus side, the Suburban did a GREAT job of towing today, but I REALLY need to figure out a way to upgrade the WOEFULLY inadequate OEM brakes.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/th_004_zpsqviematb.JPG (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/004_zpsqviematb.mp4)

[scuncio]

Dude. It only gets better from there....

[njsteve]

What year was your Suburban again? Mine is a 1995 K2500 and there is a TSB 99-05-24-001 out for the metering block attached to the ABS that was making the truck use 90% of its front circuit for braking and essentially ignoring the complete rear circuit. That was why my Suburban at 120,000 miles has all of its rear brake shoes intact. They hadn't touched the inside of the rear drums in two decades. Once we replaced that metering block, things worked a lot better. Here is the TSB article:

Covers 1992 to 1999 Chevrolet &amp; GMC C/K Cab Chassis, CrewCab, Pickup and Suburban as well as 1996 to 1999 G Series Vans (TSB 99-05-24-001, June 1999)

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-d...5-24-001-a.html (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/231646-suburban-owners-brakes-pulling-tsb-99-05-24-001-a.html)

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-12548265-Original-Equipment-Proportioning/dp/B000S2RYZE (1995 and newer valve)

[earntaz]

9&quot; next?

[SS427]

Damn Eric. Between your luck and mine there is no luck! LOL

But did it steer nice and easy..........? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[68l30]

Been there done that...many many times. Time to rebuild.


BIG

[mockingbird812]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9&quot; next? </div></div>

Eric mentioned he is contemplating a Dana rear. Always like the look of a Dana peeking out from underneath a Chebby!

[VintageMusclecar]

THANK YOU STEVE!!! I've been looking for that exact info and haven't been able to find it! Mine's a `95 2500 series gas, and that's exactly what mine's done--wears out the front brakes and barely uses the rears.

Since I'm not registered on that forum, I can't get the .pdf to open. Is that forum a quick register site or do I have to wait for admin approval? Is there any way you could send me the .pdf file?

As far as getting the Chevelle back on the road, I have another 12 bolt ready to go under the car. It's a Nov. `66 dated unit (the car is a December `66 build) I bought from our own Scuncio a couple of years ago and had built with a rebuilt posi, a 3.73 gear (the car currently has a 4.56 which I originally installed with the intent to test back-to-back against a 3.73), a Mark Williams billet drivers side carrier cap and Strange street/strip axles (with c clips). Obviously I'm not going to cut the `66 rear for c clip eliminators, but the current 12 bolt is a garden variety `68 unit, so repairing it and upgrading to c clip eliminators is an option.

I need to crunch the numbers and see what it'll take to &quot;bullet proof&quot; the `68 rear end--billet cap, c clip eliminators, top shelf differential and race axles vs. going to a Strange bolt-in S60 Dana rear end. I really don't want to go with a 9&quot; Ford, but if worse comes to worst it will be a consideration.

At least I can get the car back on the road quickly for now, will just have to forego trying any super-hard launches.

[VintageMusclecar]

BTW, I owe a MEGA-HUGE thanks to Sam Griffith and to Doug Perry!

Sam came out to spectate and Doug was running the Green Monster. Both came to my aid to push the car back around to the access road, and Sam even went so far as to retrieve my Suburban and trailer for me--even had to back it down the access road several hundred feet, which was MUCH appreciated since yesterday was my first time ever towing a trailer, and my back-up skills are still in need of refinement. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

Doug rounded up a few big dudes from the staging lanes to come over and help push the Chevelle back up on the trailer (no winch and no come-along--won't make that mistake again!)

So again, THANK YOU to Sam Griffith and Doug Perry (and the random mystery dudes from the lanes)!

[mockingbird812]

Well it was perfect Wx for test and tune. Now if only the car cooperated. It was nice to see you and Rachel and Doug. I'll post some photos later.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THANK YOU STEVE!!! I've been looking for that exact info and haven't been able to find it! Mine's a `95 2500 series gas, and that's exactly what mine's done--wears out the front brakes and barely uses the rears.

Since I'm not registered on that forum, I can't get the .pdf to open. Is that forum a quick register site or do I have to wait for admin approval? Is there any way you could send me the .pdf file?

</div></div>

It's a great website. You can register pretty quick there without grief. I am NJsteve there, too.

If we could figure out a way to post PDF's it would be much easier here... I printed it, scanned it and now am posting it for your reading pleasure. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

The article was from 2001 so GM knew about this when the trucks were still new and under warranty. You can probably ignore the brake shoe set part # portion of the update as any modern set of rear shoes cross reference to that part number now (15 years later).

This TSB was the subject of numerous lawsuits against GM, who refused to acknowledge that a defect existed and only repaired the problem if the customer complained of the &quot;truck pulling to one side under heavy braking.&quot; If those magic words weren't used, the dealers refused to replace the metering valve under the TSB. NHTSA tried to get them to admit to the problem and issue a voluntary recall (much like the rusty brake line issue) but GM fought them all the way. And the Bankruptcy and reorg meant that they never had to do anything about he problem after the bailout in 2009.

When I did the metering valve replacement I also replaced all the rear brake parts via rockauto.com. Got a great price on the 50-lb. brake drums and all the assorted hardware. Probably didn't need to replace the drums since they were never used in all those years but I had already ordered them and it would have cost me way too much to ship them back. Those drums can be a @%#%$ to remove - they tend to freeze to the axle hub. When we got my drums off we noticed that the shoes had never fully applied in almost 20 years. They were glazed with age and still at full thickness. I replaced the wheel cylinders, springs and shoes just in case they were frozen up from sitting so long. BTW, the wheel cylinder bolts and bleeder screws are real fun to get to with the heavy duty leaf springs so close to the backing plates.

BTW you could just swap that 10&quot; rear with the full floating axles and 13&quot;x3-1/2&quot; brakes from the Suburban into your Chevelle and it should take the torque quite nicely.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1359-43848-brake_tsb.jpg

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mockingbird812</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: earntaz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">9&quot; next? </div></div>

Eric mentioned he is contemplating a Dana rear. Always like the look of a Dana peeking out from underneath a Chebby!</div></div>

Yep -- that will work just as well ... TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/worship.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Well, there's good news and &quot;I'm not too sure&quot; news:

Popped the cover off and no chunks fell out...matter of fact, I couldn't see anything wrong with the carrier or the gearset at all.

Here's what I did find...the &quot;good news&quot;

Drivers side axle:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43850-005.jpg

The passenger side axle appears to be undamaged, I don't even see any twist to the splines. I couldn't get the remnant of the drivers side axle to slide in far enough to dis-engage the c-clip groove, so I had to pull the whole carrier out.

Thank <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">GOD</span></span> the carrier pin retainer bolt didn't break!
<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif

Here's what was left of the drivers side axle:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43851-007.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43852-009.jpg


Again, the ring &amp; pinion appear to be undamaged:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43853-010.jpg


Here's the &quot;I'm not so sure&quot; news--

While turning the diff to get the U joint strap bolts out, rotation felt very &quot;clunky&quot;. As soon as the driveshaft was disengaged from the rear end, the ring &amp; pinion rotated freely.

I've had enough for today so I'm not going to check it right now, but if that new transmission is hurt, the car's going to a 400 Turbo.

More sometime over the weekend.

[SuperNovaSS]

Eric,

Sorry for the bad news. Glad to hear about the good news. I can't imagine the transmission and the rear going at the same time but I guess i the car was really biting it is possible. You are an awesome guy but I don't see us going to Vegas together.


Jason

[PxTx]

The glass is clearly half-full. Glad to see it was an axle. A reasonable fix, and I'm optimistic for you and the trans. Thanks for sharing and quickly posting the carnage pics.

[njsteve]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, there's good news and &quot;I'm not too sure&quot; news:

Popped the cover off and no chunks fell out...matter of fact, I couldn't see anything wrong with the carrier or the gearset at all.

Here's what I did find...the &quot;good news&quot;

Drivers side axle:



http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43851-007.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-43852-009.jpg


</div></div>

Crazy question but what is the brown stuff on the inside of the broken surfaces? Is that rust? If so that would indicate a preexisting fracture that was old enough to rust. Or was it the residue from you pounding it out of the carrier with something?

[VintageMusclecar]

That's rust from the end of an old steel barbell I was using as a drift to try to knock the broken stub in far enough to remove the c clip.

[VintageMusclecar]

Well, after spending the better part of the day yesterday researching 12 bolt components, I've decided that for the time being I'm going to install a new pair of Strange axles along with their c clip eliminator kits. The Yukon axles that were in the car are a quality product, but the car obviously took them past their limits. Unless I want to go to a 33 spline Eaton posi (MORE $$$) or a 35 spline spool (not happening on any street car of mine), the Strange axles are my best investment. As much as I'd love to keep a 12 bolt under the car, at this weight and power level with a stick trans, it just doesn't make sense to pour money into a 12 bolt when there is a far better alternative.

The plan is to get it back together and get it to the track again, but for the time being it'll be easy launches--nothing above 3K. I still want/need to establish a representative baseline with the 4.56 gears before I make any other changes. Once that has been accomplished, the (reasonably) near-future goal is to get a Strange S60 rear under the car. That will be able to take anything I want to throw at it--and more.

Ordering the Strange parts tomorrow, hopefully I'll have everything buttoned back up soon.

More eventually.

[njsteve]

Where's the old thread on the Suburban build? You need to update that when you do the brakes. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Already in the works! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Just received email confirmation that my new axles will be here tomorrow.

Not bad--order custom axles on Monday, they ship out 2 days later.

Kudos Strange. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[427TJ]

I put a Strange S60 in my '55. Loved the look of that chrome Dana cover under there.

[ssl78]

I had the same problem with a axle . This was in 1979 and I tow bared the car to the track.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-338-44005-001010copy800x542.jpg

[VintageMusclecar]

Been slugging away at this job as I've had the time--naturally it's a <span style="font-style: italic">leeeeetle</span> bit more involved than the instructions on their website indicate. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smirk.gif

On the plus side, these axles are sum BEEFY sumbitches. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

Pics &amp; a detailed installation story forthcoming--but now I have babyback ribs to attend to, so the Chevelle will haf'ta wait `till tomorrow. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Below is a side-by-side comparison of the Strange axle next to the Yukon replacement axle:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44057-001.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44058-002.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44059-003.jpg


As you can see, the difference is huge, save for the very end where the splines are. It is possible to machine an OEM posi case for larger 33 spline axles and swap the spider gears out for the larger shafts, but again, I'm not going to put any more $ into this 12 bolt than I have to for now since it's not going to be under the car for much longer.

After the axle seal has been removed, the OE axle bearings have to be removed. Typically a slide hammer is used to remove these, but since I don't have one and wasn't going to buy one just for this job, I made do with a home-made puller using a long piece of allthread, a few nuts and some large washers. Worked like a charm.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44060-004.jpg

Once the bearing is out, the end of the axle tube is trimmed off. In this instance, Strange calls for no more than .0625&quot; (1/16&quot;) total height from the flange to the register for the backing plate.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44061-005.jpg

Here's where it got a bit complicated;

Since these axles use such a huge outer bearing, you have to machine the inside diameter of the end of the axle tube out to 2.125&quot; to ensure clearance for the &quot;wedding ring&quot;, which is the small pressed-on sleeve that helps retain the axle bearing. The area to be removed is highlighted in black in the pic below:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44063-009.jpg

Problem is, how in the hell do you machine it? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/hmmm.gif

I spent over an hour trying to use a stone grinder on the passenger side tube, and only managed to get it out to just over 2.100. By that time my hands were stinging from the vibration of the grinder, so I threw in the towel on that approach and came up with a better plan.

I went to my tool box, rummaged through the drill accessory drawer, and sure as God made little green apples, it just so happened that I had a 2 1/8&quot; hole saw! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

As luck would have it, it <span style="font-style: italic">just</span> centered into the remaining register on the axle tube, so I fired up my trusty cordless drill, aaaaaaaannnnnd proceeded to get absofriggenlutely nowhere. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

Turns out if I was gonn'a use this hole saw to do the job, I was gonn'a need something with substantially more &quot;oomph&quot; than my 18v cordless drill.

Luckily, I had that base covered too.

Meet &quot;the arm breaker&quot; <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif :

This was handed down to me courtesy of my great grandfather. This thing has saved my butt on numerous occasions, but as the name implies, it ain't to be trifled with. I learned early on to be <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> cautious using this thing, `cause if it grabs something, it's likely gonn'a break the drill apparatus you're using, or you're gonn'a pirouette like an ice skater whether you want to or not.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44062-007.jpg

I loaded up the hole saw in the arm breaker, and <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">cautiously</span></span> I started to grind away at the tubes. Took less than 5 minutes for each tube. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44065-006.jpg

It ain't pretty, but it clears!

So now everything's machined and ready to be put back together. I have to clean the axle tubes out, but that's all that's left to do.

Below is the installation diagram should anyone be interested:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44064-008.jpg

With any luck I'll have everything buttoned back up tomorrow.

Oh....FWIW...I happened to check the weather forecast for next Thursday--81° and a 50% chance of rain.

Naturally. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[kwhizz]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Two steps forward, one HUGE step backwards. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif

I got everything all buttoned back up today--carrier back in, axles &amp; brake backing plates reinstalled. All that was left to do was reinstall the drums &amp; wheels/tires and add fluid.

Since these axles have 1/2&quot; studs, I had to drill out the holes on the drums for clearance. No problem, get them drilled out, go to slide them on aaaannnnnddddd....

They stop dead at the hub register. A quick &amp; rough check with my calipers reveals the hub on the axle is a little over 2.830&quot;, and the hub bore in the drum is only ~2.800.

It appears I'll either have to send the axles back to be machined, or I'll have to find someone who can <span style="text-decoration: underline">accurately</span> bore out the register since these brakes are hub-centric.

The bloom is <span style="font-weight: bold">definitely</span> off the rose at this point.

[Postsedan]

Bummer.....time for a Cold One <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

Dan

[VintageMusclecar]

Been doing more research on this hub sizing problem, haven't been able to make heads or tails of why they (aftermarket) would change something so standardized as the register hub.

I have a pair of basic street/strip c-clip style Strange axles ready to go into the `67 dated 12 bolt, and the registers on them fit the drums just fine.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44092-003.jpg

Here's the same drum on the HD axle:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44093-001.jpg

Luckily, the wheel register clears with room to spare, and I didn't even have to drill out the axle stud holes, there's already ample room for the 1/2' studs (note the wheel is slipped directly over the axle flange, the drum is not in place here):

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44094-002.jpg

We'll see what Strange has to say tomorrow.

[VintageMusclecar]

I *think * I've found the issue.

When I measured the hub on the HD axle, it appears I had the calipers slightly on the radius at the back of the register which showed the large reading. I re-measured this morning making sure to only measure the outer part of the register, and it does measure the same as the c-clip style axle for the `67 rear end. (It's not easy to get an accurate measurement with the wheel studs in place)

It appears I may just need to go one size larger on the wheel stud holes to allow a little wiggle room for the drum to index on the register. I'm off to the hardware store shortly to pick up a 17/32&quot; drill bit.

Please...let it be this easy. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/05/full-1124-44138-001.jpg

Thank you Baby Jesus, thank you Tom Cruise!

[earntaz]

Sometimes ya' just have to get lucky!

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: njsteve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where's the old thread on the Suburban build? You need to update that when you do the brakes. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif </div></div>

Got the new proportioning valve installed on the Suburban today...<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">HYYYOOOOGE</span></span></span> improvement in braking capability! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

May need to adjust the rear shoes up a tad, the pedal is still a little lower than I prefer. I also need to check the front pads again since they've been so over-worked, they're probably glazed over again.

Thanks again for posting that tsb info for me, I really appreciate it. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[njsteve]

Great news! You should now pull the drums and visually check the rear shoes, since if they were anything like mine, they were never really touching the drums for the past 21 years. And if you had any kind of seal leaks they are compromised anyway.

Also check the condition of the front rotor dust shields. I had one rusty one that broke away and instead of harmlessly falling to the pavement, it rotated around and rolled itself up like aluminum foil, in between the brake pad and the rotor. That was a real fun time! It happened when I was pulling the trailer with Gramma's car in it. It activated the ABS on the other wheel since it was technically reading the mangled dust shield as a wheel slippage event. Luckily I brought an extra set of old pads with me and some tools to rip the shield remnant out of there. P.S. There is no way to replace the shield without pulling the CV axle and front hub bearing assembly since the tin shield mounting flange is sandwiched between the hub and the bearing.

[VintageMusclecar]

I had the brakes done on the Suburban last year, and they installed new rear shoes &amp; all new hardware. The truck had just over 200K miles on it at the time, and the shoes were indeed the original units. I'm not sure what grade of shoes they replaced them with, I need to check the receipt and see if it's mentioned on there. They initially had the rear brakes set a little too tight--to the point where a trip to Kil Kare the following day led to a noticeable &quot;hitching&quot; issue during normal driving (NOT just while braking) once the drums got a little warm. I took it back in and they backed the shoes off, but I think they backed them off too much.

Mine's a 2WD so no CV joints for me to have to deal with. However the front ABS sensors do tend to get fouled up with rust &amp; road debris which necessitates de-schmutzing them once in a while.

Aside from the above, all that's really left to do on the short list is get a section of corroded fuel line replaced along with installing a fresh fuel filter. I do want to replace the rusty pass. side front fender and the pass. side rear cargo door that got boogered up when Dave (bodyguy who did the Chevelle) had trouble replacing the hinge pin bushings and wound up actually breaking one of the hinges (--which for some unexplainable reason the factory saw fit to WELD on both the body AND the doors?!?) in the process, but that'll have to wait. I'm holding out in the hopes of finding a fender &amp; door in the original color so I don't have to re-paint nor drive around in a multi-hued DD.

Who knows?!?--maybe this year I'll FINALLY be able to get the 489 nestled down in the engine bay. I'm sure the stock 454 would appreciate that lol...she's pretty tired at this point.

Hey--at least now I'll have the &quot;whoa&quot; to go along with the &quot;GO!&quot; of the 489. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[njsteve]

I thought you put that new engine in a while ago? I remember when we attempted to remove my rear drums. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif If did my best Quasimodo impression trying to &quot;ring the bell&quot; with a sledge hammer, banging on the outer rim of the drum to break it free from the hub after 20 years.

[VintageMusclecar]

Nope, the 489 project has been on the shelf since right after the dyno testing was completed, that's when my fathers health went downhill. As the `Burb is my DD I wasn't comfortable pulling it out of service long enough to do the engine swap out of concern for potential tuning/computer issues.

W/O going into too much detail, the guy I bought all my TBI stuff from for the 489 install (oversized TBI, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, in-tank HV pump and custom burned PROM) suddenly developed a very <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">bad</span></span> reputation <span style="font-style: italic">right after</span> I'd bought everything from him (Shades of my experience with Desert Valley <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif).

As such, I've held off on the swap until such time as I would be able to spare the truck for a few weeks if necessary for de-bugging. I do have another TBI chip guy in mind should this one not run right, so at least there's that option.

*Stuff* like this is precisely why I love good old-fashioned carburetors and conventional distributors. Unfortunately, converting the truck from TBI to carbureted is a fairly involved job, so practicality is forcing me to at least attempt to make the TBI system work.

We shall see.

[VintageMusclecar]

Installation of an MSD #8739 2 step box:

The reason for the 2 step install was simple: the car is extremely quiet which makes hearing the engine RPM on the starting line basically impossible, esp. when the car in the other lane is running open headers. As such, consistently controlling launch rpm is damned near impossible. In an attempt to be able to launch the car consistently--and at a somewhat low rpm in an effort to reduce parts breakage, I decided to install and MSD #8739 2 step box to go along with my 6AL box.

The car was already equipped with a basic MSD 6AL unit which was mounted on the inner fender next to the battery both for convenience's sake and to help keep it somewhat less visible.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/07/full-1124-46444-005.jpg

With the battery removed to make some room to work, the 2 step box was mounted next to the 6AL and the main power feed wire was ran straight to the battery junction post on the core support. Under normal operation, the 2 step uses the 2nd &quot;module&quot; which is the high rpm limit. When the 2 step is activated, it bypasses module 2 and energizes module 1, which is the low side. I chose to wire the 2 step by running power direct to the box and using a switch on the shifter handle to complete the ground circuit to activate the 2 step.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/07/full-1124-46445-007.jpg

With everything back in place, the ground wire to the 2 step was routed through the engine bay above the passenger side inner fender, along the firewall and down the passenger side floorboard.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/07/full-1124-46446-008.jpg

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/07/full-1124-46447-006.jpg

To activate the 2 step for the time being, I chose the classic Hurst t-handle which has a momentary contact switch built in. The wiring was ran down along the shifter handle and through the shifter grommet and under the car. One side of the wiring was grounded to the transmission crossmember and the other was attached to the ground wire to the 2 step box.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/07/full-1124-46448-003.jpg

Note: I may change the wiring depending on how well it works as-is: MSD does show an alternate wiring schematic which uses a common 5 pole relay along with a clutch pedal mounted activation switch for the 2 step. The momentary contact button on the shifter handle activates the system while the clutch switch is energized, but the shifter button does not need to be held down as it does now. Once the system is activated and the clutch switch is tripped it de-activates the 2 step and reverts back to the high side chip.

Video of the 2 step-click the pic:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/website%20videos/th_001_zpsvrdxesyo.JPG (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d73/VMCP777/website%20videos/001_zpsvrdxesyo.mp4)

Hoping to get back to the track very soon.

Will the 3rd time be a charm? <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Gonn'a try this again.

https://www.facebook.com/events/346419402361882/

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-1124-49423-gotg.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-1124-49422-092416.jpg


Gates open @ 10:00, track opens at 11:00.

[scuncio]

Good luck!!

[earntaz]

Give er' hell Eric and good luck!! TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/burnout.gif

[mockingbird812]

Woohoo!!!

[VintageMusclecar]

Welp...2 steps forward, one step back. Again.

I've been waiting to mention that I've apparently found a little more power in the car recently. I was hoping today's trip to the track would substantiate that suspicion.

It did....sort'a...in a way.

The car's driving through the clutch again pretty badly--which means it definitely picked up power, but (as seems to be the norm for this damned thing) I can't fully quantify it on the timeslips...HOWEVER I CAN say this much...how many 4000+ lb cars do you know of that can pick up <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">TWENTY SIX</span></span> MPH on the back half with a slipping clutch??? (1st pass--picked up 23+ on the back half on the 2nd run--with the clutch still slipping like hell)

Check out the slips below (left lane # 105 on both runs):

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/09/full-1124-49470-kilkare_timeslips_092516.jpg


Both passes were with stone cold tires--was paranoid about breaking the 12 bolt again so I didn't want the car to dead-hook. As it turns out, the clutch slipped badly enough that the car did dead-hook, but the 60' times were dismal. (For comparisons sake, the first time to the track last year it ran a 1.76' 60' time on a very soft launch and ran a 7.74 @ 90.2 mph)

I launched the car both times at 2500 rpm and it never even lifted the front end either time. I launched, rolled out a few feet and matted it, caught the shift light and grabbed the gears and the car rode the clutch until the top of 3rd when all of a sudden it grabbed and the front end hiked up. Both times when I grabbed 4th the front end came down but just at the top of the gear the clutch grabbed and the front end hiked up again.

I'll get pics &amp; video uploaded later, but there's really not much to see--just one rather embarrassing 13 second pass and a 12.25 pass.

So, it's smoked another clutch. At least it didn't $hit parts out on the track. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/rolleyes.gif

Time for clutch #3...or a 400 Turbo (I'm rrrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllyyyyyyy getting tired of dicking with this damned manual trans setup).

More later.

[bbbenny]

Eric, Just my two cents, on your issue. Ninty percent of the cars that run a the strip . Are automatics. Eazyer on the drivetrain and more consistent times. I spend alot a time alot at alot of tracks and I see what guys are using. I run a turbo 400 with a automatic valve body. With a higher shift point, then stock. All I do is put the car in third gear, and put the pedal to the floor. Look what all the new COPO camaros come with from the factory? BBBenny

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbbenny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eric, Just my two cents, on your issue. Ninty percent of the cars that run a the strip . Are automatics. Eazyer on the drivetrain and more consistent times. I spend alot a time alot at alot of tracks and I see what guys are using. I run a turbo 400 with a automatic valve body. With a higher shift point, then stock. All I do is put the car in third gear, and put the pedal to the floor. Look what all the new COPO camaros come with from the factory? BBBenny</div></div>

Absolutely agree -- I've run turbo 350 and 400s ... and as indicated, much easier on the drivetrain. Or you could run a beefed glide -- two speeds ... fast and faster. TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on this, I've decided I'm going to go ahead and put another clutch in it. If it takes another $hit, the car's getting an automatic for the time being until I put a &quot;mild&quot; engine in it just to drive...or I'm going to sell the car and build something that doesn't weigh two friggin' tons plus.

[earntaz]

Nah -- you've put too much time in this ride ... keep it and get the driveline in it that will survive. There are clutches available to handle your &quot;two-tonner&quot; ... TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

Lest anyone think I was bullshitting about driving through the clutch or trying to make excuses for the cars performance--or lack thereof so far:

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49744-003.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49745-004.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49746-005.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49747-006.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49748-007.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49749-008.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49750-009.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49751-010.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49752-011.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49753-012.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49754-013.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49755-014.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49756-015.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49757-016.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49758-017.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49759-018.jpg


http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49760-019.jpg

Can you say &quot;carnage&quot;? You can <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">literally</span></span> catch your fingernail in the grooves and transferred metal on the flywheel.

The disc measures a full .030&quot; thinner now than when I first installed it--most of that is embedded around the inner circumference of the bellhousing as seen above.

This clutch is supposed to be good for 650+ HP and use with slicks.

I'm so disgusted with this right now it's not funny.

I'll decide what to do early next week.

[luzl78]

Manufacturer should step up and make good on the clutch

[PxTx]

Except it likely is rated for less hp than Eric is currently making. Doesn't appear to be have a manufacturing flaw.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

What happened to the clutch? Overpowered it?

That is brutal:-(

Ryan

[njsteve]

You have way too much horsepower. Give some of your extra to the rest of us. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif

[old5.0]

Haven't read through the whole thread so maybe someone has already suggested this, but you may want to look into a custom deal given the horsepressure you're making. I had a custom setup from ProMotion Powertrain in an 84 Mustang about 10 years ago that I couldn't keep an OTS clutch in, worked great.

[VintageMusclecar]

Jeff;

I spoke to Ram last week. When I explained the situation, the guy was like &quot;Yeah, with your power &amp; weight, you're past the limits of that clutch.&quot; Would've been nice if the tech that I spoke to the last time I went through this would've told me that instead of recommending this Powergrip HD.

Paul;

This clutch is &quot;rated&quot; at 650 HP--I'm just over 600 at the moment. Obviously you can't just go by HP rating, vehicle weight has to be taken into consideration as well...as my situation clearly demonstrates.

Ryan;

Yup. Big-time.

Steve;

No such thing as too much HP, just not enough aft of said HP at the moment. (FWIW, building HP is the relatively easy/affordable part--it's everything you have to put <span style="font-style: italic">behind</span> all that HP that bleeds you out of $$$)

Tony;

I'll be making some calls tomorrow. I was hoping to get the car back together to try to get back to the track this Thursday, but that's looking pretty iffy at the moment...and we're rapidly closing in on the end of the season. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

[PxTx]

Eric, I applaud your commitment to the manual transmission. I can't imagine my 65 Chevelle any other way.

A good friend of mine, Andy Starr just completed Drag Week with his 56 Chevy, running G Force trans. He uses a Dragon Claw Clutch and an adjustable clutch yammer but frequently kills ring gears in his Dana 60. Stepping up to a set-up like that is expensive and likely will result in a longer trip down a road of breaking more parts and engineering the weak link(s) out of the who car.

Selfishly, I would just like to see a bunch of success, fun &amp; enjoyment for you- in the way of low E.T.s, exceeding your own expextations and minimum carnage on parts. The TH400 offers a quick and direct path to that kind of fun. Might be a harder choice to make than it appears, which I can relate to. Between the time already into the 4 speed and a bit of ego on figuring out how to get the manual to meet your goals- it isn't such an easy choice to make.

This is a bit long, but I thought about your dilemma several times while reading Andy's blog. http://hilborninjection.com/drag-week-2016/

[VintageMusclecar]

Here's some interesting math for those who care to know;

You can calculate your (near) optimal elapsed time by dividing 1320 (length in feet of a 1/4 mile) by the observed trap MPH.

For example--

1320/105 mph should result in an optimal e.t. of 12.57.

1320/110 mph should result in an optimal e.t. of 12.00.

1320/115 mph should result in an optimal e.t. of 11.47.

Note that my last pass ran 115+ mph, but the e.t. was only 12.25, which is .78 off the pace--and that's with severe clutch slip through most of the run. The car has the potential to trap at least 118-120+ MPH without the clutch slipping.

Using the Wallace racing calculator (http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-correction.php) with the following (estimated--do not have actual data on hand for the day) weather parameters:

ET (1/4): <span style="font-weight: bold">11.47</span> (which is the theoretical optimal e.t for my trap mph)
MPH (1/4): <span style="font-weight: bold">115</span>
Weight : (in pounds) <span style="font-weight: bold">4050</span> (had the gas tank almost full this time)
Elevation : (in feet) <span style="font-weight: bold">1000'</span>
Temperature (F): (in Degrees) <span style="font-weight: bold">75°</span>
Relative Humidity (%): <span style="font-weight: bold">80%</span>
Actual Barometer (in/Hg): <span style="font-weight: bold">29.8</span>

We get the following data:

Your HP is 523.06 from your ET
Your HP is 523.78 from your MPH
Your HP Correction Factor is 1.09
Your Grains of water is 108.29
Your DA (Density Altitude) is 1,474 feet
Your DA (Density Altitude) is 449 meters

As you can see that's about 90 HP shy of what the engine actually made on the dyno, but two things have to be taken into consideration:

1) That was not an optimal pass--more on that in a moment.

2) The Wallace calculator shows observed HP while the dyno figures show corrected figures based on SAE weather standards.

SO--let's *assume* (I hate that word) that the car can trap 118 MPH on an optimal pass.

Re-calculating the figures using an 11.18 e.t. @ 118 mph (1320/118 = 11.18), we come up with the following;

Your HP is 554.55 from your ET
Your HP is 565.85 from your MPH
Your HP Correction Factor is 1.09
Your Grains of water is 108.29
Your DA (Density Altitude) is 1,474 feet
Your DA (Density Altitude) is 449 meters

These figures are much closer to the actual <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">observed</span></span> power figures on the dyno.

Making the HP is relatively easy. Putting it all to optimal use is the *%*@$@^# hard--AND expensive part...esp. when you're trying to do it with a stick in a two ton plus tank. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smirk.gif

FWIW, if it wasn't for the fact that I would have to buy ANOTHER high-$$ driveshaft to make it work, I'd have a 400 Turbo in the car this week (I have a good core stashed under my workbench).

[L78racer]

I went through this on a BB Nova. Tried several diaphram plates and discs. Then I went to talk to Paul Mercure of Team Checkmate .
He told me to use a Borg &amp; Beck three finger style pressure plate. I bought the setup from Ram and my problems were over.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-3824-49785-checkmatecamarodg7.jpg

[VintageMusclecar]

Do you have the details re: the pressure plate &amp; disc that you used?

[napa68]

Eric,

I have this in my Nova

http://www.mcleodracing.com/index.php/clutch-kits/rst-twin-disc.html

Admittedly, my car is lighter than yours. I'm really happy with the drivability and it holds the 600hp well my car makes on MT drag radials.

Tim

[VintageMusclecar]

I was specifically advised against the RST because it's not intended for use with sticky tires. The RXT was recommended instead.

http://www.mcleodracing.com/index.php/clutch-kits/rxt-twin-disc/rxt-clutch-pns-41077.html

I'm going to inquire about a Soft-lok clutch tomorrow. With the drag radials, my power and weight, there has to be a &quot;weak link&quot; in the system somewhere or it's going to break parts. Since you can't &quot;slip&quot; a drag radial tire like you can a bias slick to absorb some of the initial hit, it has to be absorbed by the clutch. In my case, it <span style="font-style: italic">has to</span> slip a little bit on the initial hit, but lock up once the vehicle is in motion.

Here's a good read on the Soft-Lok over on the Chevelle site:

Click here (http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-performance/232952-so-whats-%2Aadjustable-race-clutch-really-look-like.html)

[L78racer]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have the details re: the pressure plate &amp; disc that you used? </div></div>

Sorry no. This was in 2001 and that car is gone. I can't find the receipts.
Another thing he recommended was to have more gear. I had slicks with 4.10 gear. I was running a Muncie M20. I wanted to keep the 4.10's so I bought a Richmond T-10 with 2.88 first gear when I put the new Ram clutch in.

[Alss]

I'm using the street slayer from http://americanpowertrain.com/ stands up to my 630 hp BBC and T 56

[VintageMusclecar]

I dropped off the clutch at Dayton Clutch &amp; Joint this morning. It appears the pressure plate can be rebuilt &amp; re-surfaced and the flywheel can also be re-surfaced.

After MUCH detective work and a number of phone calls (including to Ram), I ordered another clutch disc--a RAM # 6130--to try with my existing pressure plate &amp; flywheel. This one is a solid step up from the last disc, but it's a dedicated race clutch. It does have a sprung hub to help (at least a little bit) with street manners. Other than that, it's a balls-to-the-wall full boogie race unit.

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/ram-6121_ml.jpg

I *may* have everything back tomorrow, and it shouldn't take too long to get everything back together in the car.

God knows I've got enough practice at it.

[mockingbird812]

Friday Wx is looking good.....

[VintageMusclecar]

The new clutch is in. I still have to re-mount the shifter and reinstall the shifter bezel, but I'll do that tomorrow. I also have to replace the power steering belt that flipped itself over @ the track, but that's a non-issue.

I did verify with Ram that the new clutch does <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span></span> technically require any break-in period, but he did say giving it a little time to seat in wouldn't be a bad idea.

Road report possibly tomorrow.

*edit*

I had some help tonight--Eric &amp; Martin (Orange GTO and black `66 Chevelle, respectively) stopped by to help get the car buttoned back up. Eric took a pic &amp; posted it to Facebook.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/10/full-1124-49925-em.jpg

[Xplantdad]

Sounds promising ersatz clutch guy! <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/headbang.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

Classic hotrod photo....mid 60's Big Block Chevelle on jack stands...pair of legs sticking out from under the car...various tools scattered about...PERFECT!

Good luck with the new clutch <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[mockingbird812]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/laugh.gif Keep us posted!

[novadude]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Making the HP is relatively easy. Putting it all to optimal use is the *%*@$@^# hard--AND expensive part...esp. when you're trying to do it with a stick in a two ton plus tank. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smirk.gif

</div></div>

I can sympathize. My Chevy II has run a best of 12.98 @ 108 mph. With a 108 mph trap speed, ET should be a lot better. I just haven't figured out how to lauch it with the Muncie and get the 60' down.

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WILMASBOYL78</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Classic hotrod photo....mid 60's Big Block Chevelle on jack stands...pair of legs sticking out from under the car...various tools scattered about...PERFECT!

Good luck with the new clutch <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif </div></div>

AND no creeper -- just a piece of cardboard ...

[VintageMusclecar]

That was Marty on the cardboard--he's a little dude and can get away with that--I was on the creeper under the other side of the car. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/grin.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

The first test drive is in the bag.

Status report: This clutch is one grabby sumbitch. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/eek.gif --no &quot;in between&quot; with this one, it's on or off like a light switch. When I first pulled it out of the garage, i thought it was going to shake the entire dashboard out of the car.

I drove it over to Marty's house here in town, then he asked if he could drive it, so I let him take it around the plats. It's going to take a little getting used to, and I definitely have to alter my driving style with this clutch, but I think we can make this work--at least for now.

I want to put a few more miles on it before I put it to the test.

More later.

[kwhizz]

The never ending &quot;Refining&quot; process............ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Yep--constantly addressing the newest weak links in the chain.

[JBALL]

Eric,

Are you going to the track tonight? I'm heading up after work.

[VintageMusclecar]

I'm planning on going--Doug Perry's taking his green monster out and called me this morning to see if I could meet him there. I won't be taking the Chevelle today--no break-in/de-bug time on the clutch yet and the Suburban's in the shop with rear brake issues (again--long story there).

You taking your car out?

[JBALL]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VintageMusclecar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm planning on going--Doug Perry's taking his green monster out and called me this morning to see if I could meet him there. I won't be taking the Chevelle today--no break-in/de-bug time on the clutch yet and the Suburban's in the shop with rear brake issues (again--long story there).

You taking your car out?</div></div>

Nope. Just going to watch as well. See you there!

[EZ Nova]

Eric, that sucks you're having such an issue with these clutches. I've ran a couple clutch cars years ago, and funny, we just sorta picked and choose parts to make it work! When my '69 Nova was running mid 10's with either the 396 or 427, they both went through a Ram long style with a ram 3 pad with an (I know, stupid , but that's what we used) GM stock flywheel. Now my full weight car with slicks and enough jam to run 10.40's and didn't hurt the clutch in either case. Now a buddy of mine set the air-gap first time out, then again about 50 miles later, but that was it. It was a PITA with the 3 pad and the little hole in the bottom of the lakewood bell.

Sorry, if I had read this, I would have tried to put you onto a fairly reliable Ram set-up a ton of people use with great success, and not that pricey either. It a Ram 470/471 CW long style plate with there sintered iron disc. I think the pair are about $600.00. I know some have had some issue with the counterweight arms and have gotten parts from Cale Aronson at Black Magic Clutches with GREAT success.

I would highly recommend calling Cale at 816-390-0852 and he WILL get you in the right direction.

John

[VintageMusclecar]

I'm already making arrangements to swap the car to a 400 Turbo, waiting for confirmation from a friend that he has a suitable core available.

[earntaz]

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif Now you're talkin' ... so much easier on the drivetrain. The three pedal troops may have a SF but it's your ride ... TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

I'd love nothing more than to keep the stick in the car.

Simply put--with the way this thing's eating driveline parts, I can't afford to keep the stick in it--at least not with this engine in the car. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

When I'm done testing with this 496, I'm planning to build a mild 396 for the car and return it to true driver status--it will go back to a 4-speed then.

I already have 2-3 people interested in the Legend 5 speed over on the Chevelle site.

[scuncio]

I would also be interested in the Legend trans...

[VintageMusclecar]

Tony, give me a call when you have a minute?

[scuncio]

Will do

[VintageMusclecar]

Got a little more seat time with the new clutch today, getting better acclimated to it. Everything seems to be functioning OK.

Going to Kil-Kare tomorrow to try this again.

[John Brown]

Eric, I hope someone has told you to never slip clutches that have solid metallic pucks on them. It's a recipe for sure death to the clutch. Had a friend that started using that style clutch back in 1968 or so and it was a learning experience. The local clutch builder said it would hold all the power we could put to it. He neglected to warn about trying to drive it like an everyday street car. We finally learned from a truck driver that was experienced with that type of friction material, that the clutch was meant to be either fully engaged or fully disengaged. After we found that out, clutches lasted nearly the full season.

[earntaz]

I've also heard this but wanted to hold comment as maybe something newer has come along -- this setup can be a real pain in the south end on a street machine ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/no.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

I think it'll be all right for the time being. I did have to adjust my driving style a little and utilize more of a quick slip just off-idle in 1st, but now there's minimal chatter on take-off.

Reverse is another story however...oof...

No worse than having to move a &quot;race car&quot; around in the pits/lanes, but definitely not ideal for the street.

Let's just pray nothing else breaks or otherwise goes awry this time and I can finally get some clean passes on the car. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/crazy.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif

[earntaz]

Hang in there Eric and good luck at the strip ... TAZ <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif

[PxTx]

Good luck tonight!

[VintageMusclecar]

Anyone want to buy a clutch eating `67 Chevelle???--<span style="font-size: 23pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">CHEAP!!</span></span></span> <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/mad.gif

[earntaz]

You have got to be kidding me -- the Chevelle ate another one? Next step -- Glide or TH400 ... TAZ

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Oh my:-(

Ryan

[VintageMusclecar]

I am so sick of this Goddamned car right now I can't see straight.

If someone stuck a fistfull of cash in my hand it'd be gone tomorrow.

[Postsedan]

I feel your pain.....been there done that.....but I never sold my car.....I still have it, thank goodness.

You need a break.....time to chill and regroup.

Dan

[earntaz]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Postsedan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I feel your pain.....been there done that.....but I never sold my car.....I still have it, thank goodness.

You need a break.....time to chill and regroup.

Dan</div></div>

X2 <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/scholar.gif

[JRC99]

Reminds me of the Camaro. You're on top of Everest, and it comes and kicks you down by breaking yet another thing. Hang in there, Eric. Eventually, you'll find a trans that works, and eventually you'll run out of things to replace.

[VintageMusclecar]

The trans isn't the problem, it's been trouble-free save for now having a wasted tailshaft seal--which I'm sure is due in no part to having the driveshaft in &amp; out a dozen times.

The problem is the power and the weight--plus the fact that the car usually dead hooks.

It's looking more &amp; more like I'm going to have to go to some sort of a twin disc set-up...which is just that much more $$$ that I can't spare right now.

On top of that, this clutch fiasco has severely screwed my hopes &amp; plans to get a few other projects wrapped up before the end of the year.

Manual transmissions are undeniably cool, but OMG are they one colossal friggin' pain in the ass--specifically, right around the wallet region. <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/thumbsdown.gif

[VintageMusclecar]

Happy 50th birthday.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/12/full-1124-53604-d.jpg

[L72Chevelle]

Any updates Eric? Did you swap to an automatic?

[VintageMusclecar]

Haven't touched the car since the last time it was out save for charging the battery once so I could pull it outside. Decided against going automatic, but the car's probably not going to make it out this year at this point. Actually been considering selling it.

[SS427]

Don't you dare! That and Rachel are the two things that keep you sane! ;)

[VintageMusclecar]

.

[VintageMusclecar]

Against my better judgement, today I broke down and pulled the trigger on another clutch set-up--a McLeod RXT which is a dual disc system with ceramic pucs.

McLeod rates this unit up to 1,000 HP.

With any luck I'll have it in the car within the next couple of weeks.

Fingers crossed.

[scuncio]

Yeah!!

Did that dual-disc setup on the Performance Years board not work out? Seemed like a great deal.

[VintageMusclecar]

It had the wrong spline discs, would've cost too much to sort it out.

[VintageMusclecar]

RXT clutch is in. All the gory details of the install are on my FB page.

Test drive report soon.

[mockingbird812]

Best wishes Eric!!

[VintageMusclecar]

The first test drive is in the bag--just a brief jaunt around the neighborhood, stayed close to home "just in case", but so far, so good.

The pedal effort is very comfortable, and as far as "driveability", I can already state that this is by far the most street-friendly clutch I've had in the car so far. Zero chatter, even in reverse, very easy to--for lack of better term--ride, not like the previous race clutches which were (to varying degrees) more like an "on/off' switch.

I didn't lean on it at all, so as far as holding power goes, the verdict's still out on that. However, should this clutch perform as advertised, I will officially consider myself a McLeod convert.

More soon--weather permitting.

[earntaz]

Keep your fingers crossed Eric -- sounds like you finally hit the right combination ... Craig :beers:

[SuperNovaSS]

Sounds awesome Eric. I hope it will handle the power.


Jason

[VintageMusclecar]

Clutch update:

It holds. :naughty:

:burnout:

:3gears:

:biggthumpup:

[mockingbird812]

Yee haw!!!

[njsteve]

Congratulations!

[VintageMusclecar]

This clutch definitely hits harder than its predecessors.

Gonn'a have to watch it pounding it on the shifts--that poor 12 bolt's already hacked out parts once. :ooo:

[VintageMusclecar]

Pretty sure the Legend trans in the Chevelle is on it's way out. It's making some very unhappy noises and there's a new driveline vibration that definitely isn't engine related. Not sure where I'm going to go from here.

[earntaz]

Geezzz !!@#$

[sixt9rsx33]

I can't get the link to work

[Arrowsmith]

Geez...sounds like the trans could be legendary junk. :( Jerico or G-Force with a road race slider?

[PxTx]

Eric- thabks for continuing to update thia thread and sharing both the good parts as well as the challe ges! A TH400 will give you an inexpensive baseline and some time to enjoy the car for what it is- an excellent dream car realized. You can alway put a 4 speed in again- or any maual.

I just think you would NOT be wasting your time trying it out with a friendly automatic.

[VintageMusclecar]

It would take another $3K to swap the car to a 400 Turbo at this point--build the trans, add an Ultra Bell, ATI converter, shifter + requisite fab work to install it, trans lines & cooler, plus another driveshaft.

Not happening.

Calling the place I bought the trans from tomorrow to see if I can arrange a return to Legend to get this box fixed or if I get to eat a $4K+ trans. God only knows how much more down-time this will add--probably wouldn't be able to get the car out again this year.

There's a very, VERY strong probability I'm just going to cut my losses on this car and sell it. I'm so sick of looking at it's not funny.

I don't think I'll ever be able to enjoy it at this point.

[tom406]

I'd have to agree, this project has fought you too hard. Time to make your exit strategy and move on. Good luck.

[L72Chevelle]

Sorry to hear this Eric, best of luck with whatever you deside to do.

[VintageMusclecar]

I've made contact with Legend through the dealer I bought the trans from, waiting to hear back from them.

At this point, my plans are to sell this car, and I'm going to throw a cheap beater together so I have something to test with. The Chevelle just isn't suited for my needs at this point--it's an original 4 speed car, so permanently converting it to automatic just doesn't sit right with me. Most importantly, it's already got low 11 second potential, and that means a cage, which is not happening in this car.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place, as the old saying goes.

As I'm planning to build something else, whatever I build is going to need a transmission. As such, I'm trying to figure out a way to get my 400 Turbo core built and get my hands on a suitable converter. If I can manage to make that happen, I'm looking to TEMPORARILY stuff it in the Chevelle so I can at least have one more shot at getting this slug-bucket bitch down the track in a manner representative of its power level. I'm sick to death of driveline breakage on this car making me look like a ******* chump @ the track.

After that, the driveline comes out along with the interior peripherals (gauges, etc.), the 4.56 12 bolt comes out and the 3.73 goes in, then it's off to a new owner (I hope).

There's no repairing the relationship between me and this car at this point. I loathe the sight of it right now, and all I want is for it to be out of my face.

[earntaz]

Hang in there Eric -- there WILL be better days ... TAZ

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Time for an Oldsmobile:-)

W-Machines are hot!!!

Ryan

[daverd]

Lenco time

[VintageMusclecar]

Not for all the rice in China.

Found the source of the vibration, but the trans noise is definitely still there.

I can't figure out how to copy the link from Facebook, but there's a video of the trans noise on my Vintage page. The link is below in my signature line.

[Xplantdad]

Try this:

https://www.facebook.com/1572898026258582/videos/1946142718934109/

[VintageMusclecar]

My transmission guy Jody Haag from the Chevelle site assures me the noise is being caused by the solid hub twin disc clutch set-up causing the gears to rattle. I've never heard a box make this much noise, but by the same token I've never ran a non-sprung hub clutch on the street either. If he says it's normal and good to go, then I'll take his word for it.

Let the beatings commence.

[VintageMusclecar]

I sure hope I'm not jinxing myself here.....but I think I've got the entire 5 speed set-up in the Chevelle sold lock, stock & barrel.

If this pans out the car will be temporarily converted over to a 400 Turbo for track testing purposes.

Once that's done, the 496 is coming out of the car and a mild engine will be going back in along with a Muncie 4 speed and appropriate peripherals.

Hard lesson learned here: making a heavy stick car haul ass is WAY above my pay grade.

Maybe once the car has a slushbox in it the "fire" will re-kindle between me & the car.

We'll see. I hope.

[earntaz]

I always ask the same question -- do you want a race car or a cruiser. The answer is simple ... a good race car is not a cruiser and a cruiser is not a race car ... nuf said? TAZ

[VintageMusclecar]

Still looking for a suitable (read: cheap, preferably ugly and something I don't give a rats ass about) mule to use as a test bed for my engine projects. Leaning heavily towards another G body, or perhaps a 3rd gen F body if I can find one someone's already done most of the work on for the right deal.

The Chevelle will soon be relegated to nice cruiser status, no more stupid power in it like this. In my defense, I never in my wildest dreams thought this relatively mild 496 would run like it does.

[VintageMusclecar]

Payment has been sent for the trans & peripherals.

Slushbox time.

[VintageMusclecar]

First test drive with the 400 Turbo is in the bag--just a quick jaunt around the neighborhood.

This dinky converter is definitely gonn'a take a little getting used to lol...but I can live with it.

Of course I had to give it a little whack...:naughty:

:3gears: <-----------this should give you a hint. :D

The car actually smoked the tires through 1st and 2nd from a roll this time lol. The throttle response is absolutely ridiculous now that it doesn't have that heavy-ass flywheel & clutch hanging off the back of the crank. Maybe I'll post a short video clip tomorrow.

Next on the "to do" list is get that 4.56 screw outt'a the back and get the 4.10's in, but that'll have to wait until spring.

[earntaz]

:beers::3gears:

[mockingbird812]

Niiiiiiccceee!

[VintageMusclecar]

Posted a couple short videos on my Facebook page.

[VintageMusclecar]

Got the first ~10 mile drive in today. I can definitely work with this. I actually enjoyed driving this car for the first time I've owned it. Lesson learned here: Sticks are undeniably cool--given the right circumstances--but a stick in a heavy-ass tank that hooks and has a lott'a low end grunt are not a good mix for me.

Rear end work is coming up very soon, then--God willing--another trip to the digs.

[VintageMusclecar]

4.56 out, 3.73 going in.