Possible '69 Motion Phase III GT/L-36 Test Mule

[viscos]

I bought this Corvette shell about two years ago. Check out my pics gallery. Any info is helpful, Thanx. Joel Rosen is the King of the supercars! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[Dog427435]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out my pics gallery. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Where?

[SuperNovaSS]

Gallery (http://www.yenko.net/photos/member.php/uid/6946)

[55chevy]

That's not a Phase III GT.

[x Baldwin Motion]

what do you think it is Ed? (don't say POS or spoiled specimen) I do remember at least one vette with those firebird tail lights?

[x Baldwin Motion]

VISCOS : "My dream is to have Joel Rosen run the numbers and document her, restore her, then sell her at Barrett-Jackson. I hate to try to sell her, but I hate even more to see such a rare and beautiful Vette go to the crusher. Any info is helpful."



http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif SELL IT !!?? drive it like it was meant to be driven !!

[55chevy]

Looks like an owner modified car to me. I do know what it's not.. it's not a Phase III GT car. ALL the GT's had the slanted rear window.

[olredalert]

------Ed,,,I have the utmost respect for your knowledge of these rare cars, but Id like to ask a well intentioned question. If a well healed customer walked into Joels office and wanted a Phase III GT but said he didnt care for the back window and preferred a Phase III GT with a stock rear window would Joel have ushered him out the door???........Bill S

[55chevy]

Bill.. the rear window IS what made the car the Phase III GT.. Any other Motion Vette without that window is just a Motion Vette with custom body work. I don't know how many guys think the Ferrari style headlights make it a GT.. It does not. The rear window does. Joel said he made 10 Phase III GT Vettes. All of them except the Prototype had the Full GT treatment, the centerpiece being that GT rear window. Larry Clain had a lengthy in-depth converstation with Joel about the GTs at the SCR6 I believe. Next to Joel, Larry probably knew more about the GTs than anyone else. He owned 2 of the 10. He was in communication with several other GT owners and past owners and had been constantly researching them for years.. Even so far as speaking at length with Joel about them back in 1974 when he first bought the Prototype GT and Joel was still building these cars. And for a few years before Larry died, I was helping research them as well.. And during the few years I knew Larry he shared all the knowlege he had about them with me. I certianly don't claim to be a know-it-all.. but on the subject of the Baldwin/Motion Phase III GT Corvettes.. I know a lot more than most.. So to answer your question, No Joel wouldn't have ushered a buyer away.. But the buyer would not have gotten a GT.. just a Motion Vette with some of the body goodies. (Phase III? ..SS427?.. Take your pick).. Don't forget other companies back then offered these same fiberglass parts that Joel put on the GTs. I've seen several of those Ferrari style front ends on Vettes that weren't even Motion cars. Take Jamie Jarvis's beautiful '68 Vette for instance. It' got the GT front end and hood on it and other Motion mods. But it has the stock rear window.. It's not a Phase III GT and it was an owner built car using genuine Motion parts.

When a car shows up in this kind of shape a lot of homework needs to be done. Ask Jamie about that. He found out what his car actually was, and restored it as such. And he doesn't try and portray it as something else. I think that's what needs to be done with this car. Figure out what it actually IS.. before you start calling it something it isn't..

[ronebee]

per pictures, car has a 73 soft bumper nose like used on the Manta Rays, interesting car, comments in the photo section make it interesting, with no vin# on the body, how the hell would you get this thing on the road? anybody know what region 00 is and what dealer in #502? I agree this is not on of the phase III cars (whatever my opinion is worth)

[x Baldwin Motion]

I agree it's not a GT (rear window) but I would not bet on what it is. It wasn't too long ago that a certain RARE1 was questioned as a hodge podge of owner installed fiberglass (remember Mako /Maco). And the orange one in New Jersey recently, didn't that also change hands a few times before someone had it documented. I just think encouraging someone to go to all the trouble to research a car before it is dismissed as phoney is important for the history and longevity of our hobby. JMHO

thanks for letting me shoot my breeze. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

and besides, anybody with the nads and cabbage to put that back together should be applauded http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[viscos]

The thing that made a Motion Phase III GT a Phase III GT was not, and I say again, not just the fastback rear window. Doesn't anyone watch the Speed channel? At supercar reunion 8 which was featured on "My Classic Car" on Speed, a feature was done on that show about Jamie Jarvis' '68 Phase III GT 'Vette. Mr. Jarvis says, "with Motion you could order as much or as little of the Motion conversion or pieces as you wanted, the original owner, personal opinion didn't care for the fastback glass so he left that off, uh, when he built the car". He further states, "well, this car actually he drove it, uh, he bought the car new in '68, drove it 'til '73, in it's stock form". Dennis then says, "so in '73 it became a motion", Mr. Jarvis replied, "YES SIR." Has anyone seen a Motion
Perf. ad. in a old issue of Hi-performance Cars Mag., you could get a Mako Shark rear clip and GT front clip if you wanted, or vice versa.

[viscos]

Thanx X, that was very well put.

[55chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing that made a Motion Phase III GT a Phase III GT was not, and I say again, not just the fastback rear window.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well you are completely wrong.. but whatever.. I'm done arguing this subject.

[x Baldwin Motion]

"Well you are completely wrong.. but whatever.. I'm done arguing this subject."
Ed is one of the most knowledgable persons on these cars so I'll let him take a breather and give out some basic info. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif


Victor, no disrespect to Jamie Jarvis' car, it is quite fantastic, but it is "a mail-order" car. I don't believe it has ever been to the Motion Performance shop in Baldwin, NY.
It is an excellent example of what you could build yourself using Motion parts. It is NOT one of the 10 (?) GT's built by Joel Rosen. See an excellent article covering this car and it's history in the NOV07 Corvette Fever magazine.

[x Baldwin Motion]

let me take this opportunity to thank all those guys that photograph or scan and upload pictures all the time. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif It is tedious work !! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/youguysrock.gif

here are four pages from that mag on Jamie's car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/scan.jpg

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/vettemailorder.jpg

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/vettemailorder2.jpg

[x Baldwin Motion]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q101/65z13/vette3.jpg

[Serbigblock]

The GT must have all the GT options to be called one of the 10 GT's. If they had some of the options then they were Phase III cars with GT options. It only cost me 1500.00 to find that out. I am giving you that info for free.http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[viscos]

I didn't say that I thought my car was from Baldwin, or one of the ten. I said that this car could be a "mail order" Motion car, for all I know the orig. owner could have ordered the clips from Motion Perf. and put 'em on in his garage. Any more "experts" wanna tell me this isn't a 00/502 car also? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[SuperNovaSS]

Then why is the title of the thread "test mule"? That sure makes it sound like you thought it was from Motion.


Jason

[ronebee]

"If they had some of the options then they were Phase III cars with GT options. It only cost me 1500.00 to find that out. I am giving you that info for free."

I read this and I had to laugh out load, as anybody who has sent the $$$ to Joel Rosen would attest to. Boy I wish I was smart enough to do something brilliant 40 years ago that still paid me today. I could write a chapter in a book from the few conversations that I had with Joel and the two that I had with Marty Schoor.

When I owned the Moray Gt and was attemppting to document it two guys that worked on the car said, yes, that is one of Joels' cars. I actually had the guy who put the interior in the car tell me were to look for the fasteners, how the window felts were installed by him (rivets) versus how they were put in stock, (staples). He finally told me that if Joel wouldn't sign off on the car that I should jump on a plane and beat the signature out of him. When I called Joel and told him that I spoke to the interior guy and this is what he said, Joel Said "You're getting close, keep digging" and then he asked me for the interior guys number.

He finally said yes, it's one of mine, but the son-of-a-bitch made me PAY HIM and then made me run around like a jack ass and convince him. He made me work for it. I guess I can't blame him, and he was honest up front when I sent him the money that it was like Las Vegas.

It's funny though, I called him on another car I was chasing and he said, "Keep looking Ron, they just found another one of my cars in Suscatchuwan", and he sounded geniunely excited that another one of his cars was unearthed.

Joel is interesting guy who had a great product, good media coverage, proper ad copy and the product is still in demand today and still paying Joel dividends.

An American Success story.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why is the title of the thread "test mule"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because Zone 00 Dealer Code 502 is Chevy Engineering...or Mesa Provng Grounds?http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif.

~ Pete
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Serbigblock]

Just to set the record straight, I have had nothing but good experiences with Joel. You have to understand that he is receiving hundreds of emails and phone calls combined a day and few of those people are attempting to frauduantly document cars. He does not know the honest guys from the dishonest guys by a simple phone call. I think he is up front and honest when you contact him. He tells you he does not have all the paperwork on all his cars and who would. We certainly need to cut him a little slack. I think we are fortunate to still have a great enthusiast of the era and a legend still around. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[ronebee]

Hey,

let me also set the record straight as well, Joel is a good guy, but he dogged me and wanted to make sure I was for real, for the all the reasons that you mentioned. It was almost like a Fraternity hazing, or it was more like he was trying to see if I was for real and if the car was for real. I know he gets tons of requests and gets to look at tons of pictures of pure garbage, I have personally looked at some of the crap that he wouldn't sign off on. I understand, I've flown to all parts of the country to look at stuff that would blow your mind (in a bad way). I thought I found a car with some real Motion lineage and I asked the guy if there was any mid mounted traction set up(corvette) and he said "yeah, my cars got that". I went to see a Corvette with one lakewood traction bar u-bolted to the middle of the car riding about two inches off the pavement.

I'll tell you something interesting though, now that he knows who I am and what I brought to him before, when I call he knows who I am and how to say my last name (which is not easy). It was really a unique experiance dealing with him, and IF you have found what you think is a FOR REAL car and have done extensive research and phone calls before sending the documentation fee, then and only then is it worth it to send the money and go for the brass ring. You better be damn sure that you know what you got before you call and be able to back it up with docs, articles, past owners, paper trails, etc, etc.

He's the keeper of the gate. It reminds me what my pops used to tell me "Don't talk the 8000 pound gorilla out of the tree until you have something he wants" (translation, if your gonna bother somebody important, make sure its worth everybodys time).

Peace.