1969 375/396 Non SS Nova?

[bkhpah]

I just picked up the December 07' Muscle Car Review Sunday. On the cover is a good looking white/blue 396/375 1969 Nova. But I noticed the car does not have the SS grill emblem, hood louvers, or the SS tail panel trim. According to the story wrote by Paul Zazarine this is one of a "handful" of NON SS 396/375 Novas. This is a first for me. I have never heard of a NON SS 396. Anyone ever hear of such an animal?...BKH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[JRSully]

I was wondering that as well, didn't the 69 Yenko Novas come to him as SS cars.? I would have figured he would have that deleted prior to delivery if it all possible

[tsq396]

It may have been possible they did have 1970 402bb malibus that were non SS if my memory serves correct.

[bkhpah]

The Yenko Novas were all SS cars...BKH

[67BelAir427]

I just picked up the same issue and had the same question. Did such a beast exist?

[Stefano]

I have never seen an L78 non SS Malibu/Chevelle? Any out there?

[Mr70]

I think tsq396 is referring to the LS-3 equipped Malibu.

[Mr. Chevy]

I have never heard of this, but I guess anything is possible when you ordered these cars back in the day.. Maybe somebody wanted the ultimate sleeper look with the L78 engine option and ordered it that way?? Unless specially ordered this way, I don't think Chevy ever made an L78 nova that did not have the SS option or goodies.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

I do know of a local car (69 Nova) running around that the original owner's son now owns. He stated that his father special ordered the car with all of the SS options minus the hood louvers and badging. The car has the original hi-po 350 in it that would have came in the SS models. This car was special ordered this way from a local dealership here in Ohio and is the "real deal".

Rich

[bkhpah]

This car also has deluxe blue bench seat, and states it had a rubber mat. I also thought only carpet was available with deluxe interior. It has a black mat. I think even rubber mats were color coded to interiors, so it should be blue...BKH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Nova Jed]

Do you have any pics from the Magazine you can post?

[71-LS6]

My father in law, ordered one brand new to use as a "tow vehicle" for his drag car. He's told me the story 5-6 times now. I'll see if I can get a picture of it.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
This car also has deluxe blue bench seat, and states it had a rubber mat. I also thought only carpet was available with deluxe interior. It has a black mat. I think even rubber mats were color coded to interiors, so it should be blue...BKH http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Deluxe interior included carpet, rubber mats were molded in black, but were painted/dyed to match the seats, door panels, etc. in a blue interior. I've never seen or heard of a non SS big block nova period, let alone an L78...I haven't seen the article but sure sounds like a fish story to me.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I don't imagine the article provides any documentation/paperwork to prove of any of this?

[68l30]

Got mine today....Interesting car that's for sure. Total sleeper look to it. I really like the look of the Dover White with the blue gut. ....I'd put some 307 bezels on it and go street racing.

Steve

[68l30]

After looking at the Nov. 15 1968 printing of Section 3 of the 1969 Truck Data Book/Passenger Car page 47 ...It states in bold italic letters "The following additional horsepower engines may be ordered when Nova SS (option Z26)is specified on order".. L34 & L78...Also under the Power Teams (page 51) it specifies both options (Z26/L78) unlike other combos (LM1) listed alone. There could be a later update to the specs, or maybe a COPO/SO loophole..I've learned to never say never...

Steve

[Xplantdad]

Guess I need to go to the market and get this magazine...so I can see what you guys are talking about... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nova Jed]

Agreed!

[442w30]

All indications point to this being an SS-only engine. I would think if it was real, some effort should have been made to show how it's an anomoly and how it's special in some manner. Instead, we're just left wondering, and I'm not about to believe just anything a magazine is supposed to say . . . especially considering the same issue has a Hemicuda feature that it lists as a Gran Coupe, which is totally incorrect.

[Schonyenko2]

I know people who "back in the day" tried to order high horse camaros with SS delete trim, but were unable to. And obviously those dealers were not well enough connected to know how to order a COPO.
The closest thing to an SS with high po performance, but a non SS in a nova was an L 79, but that ended in 68.
Interesting. Either it's something most of us have never come across before, or someones got their stories tangled.
I tend to agree with Joe, in that I'd like to see some paperwork. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Maybe this is one of those cars that had the motor blown up almost immediately, and had it upgraded at the dealership to a L78 for a few bucks more. Then local legend made it a "factory" built car.

[Nova Jed]

I know this is a little off, but why does it seem that there is more knowledge on this site and no one seems to be backed by a resto company or TV show? Or could I be wrong? How many of you gurus on here are backed by a company or TV show?

[Stefano]

The Mayor is backed by Television, a restoration shop as well as his constituents!

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
The Mayor is backed by Television, a restoration shop as well as his constituents!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually we've been approached by the local network cable public access channel. But they're waiting to see if the major sponsor, Panky's bait shop is going to step up with money. Panky's sells "red wigglers". If you ain't got a red wiggler on, you ain't workin it right. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nova Jed]

Man, you are hilarious! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[TN2Lane]

Red Wigglers, the Cadillac of worms. Available in fine worm shops everywhere.

[ANDY M]

Here is the cover shot of the car. Note that the car is identified as an "SS396".
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a146/ameyers215/scan0001.jpg
Without posting the entire article, the author states that of the 5,272 L-78 Novas built in 1969, a "handful" were not.
He does state that there are no records as to how many were built as non-SS cars. There is also no mention of the history of this particular car, so no ducumentation is mentioned. (This is the magazine's way of generating controversy, which is always good for business). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif
Carry on. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[1969l78]

(This is the magazine's way of generating controversy, which is always good for business).

Isn't that the the truth!!!!!!!!

[JRSully]

I have to believe that if you were able to build/order an L78 Nova sans the SS package, A LOT more would have surfaced as many of these were ordered strictly to drag race and the SS stuff would certainly not be wanted or paid for if deletable. Would like to see clearer verification on this. I am suprised Zazarine didn't research this more

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Clone or poor resto, take your pick!

[Nova Jed]

Poor choice of description! Sells the magazine though doesn't it?

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
..I've learned to never say never...

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]

or always. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Correct or not; real or not,....... it's a cool car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[JRSully]

A lot of Musclecar magazines out there currently!!

[Keith Tedford]

Without all the paperwork, oddball cars aren't going to get too far, even if they are real. I remember being a little frustrated with people when not much of anyone believed that COPO Chevelles were ever built. Fortunately, being the original owner, I had all the paperwork to back the car up. It would be a shame if someone had a real deal oddball car, but didn't have the paperwork. A friend of mine claims to have ordered new in '68, an Oshawa built Malibu with the 396 engine. I never saw the car, and he had no reason to BS me. I really don't know other than to say, "Never say never." Things like this I just keep in the back of my head. If GM built oddballs, they sure kept it low key, because I never heard of it, nor seen one.

[agtw31]

that car is a killer.way cool.

if it is a fake,this isnt as bad as the 1 of none blue column shifted 67 "Hurst" 442 they did an article on a while back.
that car was so obviously fake,it was ridiculous.

[Mr. Chevy]

I finally read the article today and looked at the pictures.. Very cool car but without any form of documentation to ascertain that it was ordered this way, I believe this car is a "put together L78 clone car". Like I said, I like it and it is cool and who cares if it is a clone. However, the magazine should not advertise it as something it is not, if this is the case...

Getting back to the Custom Interior Package conversation, It should have carpet and there should be the bright metal trimwork around the gas, brake and clutch pedals. This too came with this interior package.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Can-I-Have-It.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Rich

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
A friend of mine claims to have ordered new in '68, an Oshawa built Malibu with the 396 engine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keith, did you guys ever try to search the car out through GM of Canada to see if there is paperwork on it? That's assuming your friend still knows the VIN.

[Belair62]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this is a little off, but why does it seem that there is more knowledge on this site and no one seems to be backed by a resto company or TV show? Or could I be wrong? How many of you gurus on here are backed by a company or TV show?

[/ QUOTE ]

I starred in Fantasy Island...427King starred in the Munsters and Lillard played Mr. Rogers...strangely..Lillard and 427King were picked up on a TV show called Will & Grace...they are the flamers on that show.

[agtw31]

i believe several board members were contestants on project runway.

[Keith Tedford]

I wanted to get more info on the car but we just never got together. Haven't seen the guy in some time. It would be interesting though.

[BUIZILLA]

I've never seen a blue rubber mat car... all rubber mats were black IMO, regardless of interior color trim/theme

[bkhpah]

Well, you would be wrong with that opinion. I have parted a blue mat 69 Nova and a friend just picked up a green mat for his Nova..BKH

[camarojoe]

No question about it. The used original mat in my Deuce came from a green interior car and was also dyed green over the black rubber. In addition to green and blue, I've seen brown/tan too, and would bet there were more colors available than that.

[bkhpah]

Item #260186830239 on eBay is a green mat from a 70 Nova that just sold...BKH

[camarojoe]

clickable http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

green mat (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=260186830239 )

[Schonyenko2]

I have a gold one.

[Nova Jed]

Ok! I have to say that so far you and Shoney have to be the two most hilarious guys on here! How did you become car enthusiats/gurus and not comedians? Still looking for the Jeff Dunham in this group. Who is gonna be Walter? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Nova Jed]

Joe, I have seen brown in an original 30k mile Nova out in York about 6 years ago. It was a 72 and the interior was that tan or sandalwood? The car was orange. I almost got that car and then 2 yrs later the guy that bought it showed up at my dads with it when I had the Camaro up for sale. I was so mad because he got it for what I had offered the original seller! The interior was mint! I have yet to see the blue though. Hope that backs things up a bit?

[bkhpah]

On eBay right now is a blue gut mat car. Item #250194453239...BKH

[camarojoe]

Also clickable.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

blue mat (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=250194453239 )

[Nova Jed]

That is a real nice Nova! I didn't even notice that was a blue mat. I looked at it quick and thought it was carpet.

[1969l78]

I had a gold one also

[bashton]

The owner of that particular car has an incredible collection of cars in Florida. I have never personally met him, but it does indeed appear that he has the means and the knowledge to obtain some pretty rare and unusual cars.

Not to say he might not like to "create" something cool for cruising around in, but...never say never!

BA

[camarojoe]

Until I see some proof other than a magazine article... I'm sayin' never.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Who would've ever thought the lowly Nova would generate such conversation....makes this Nova boy proud http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

wilma

PS: the only thing that would make this 69 car more interesting is an L89 engine http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nova Jed]

Here is something to stir up the pot. Don't know if it's 100% true but I have heard two local counts that there is one Blue all aluminum 454 Corvette still out there. Even though American Muscle Car did a show on only two. I was told that GM found the car because it's still with the original owner. I was told this by two guys who have seen the car personally. One helped him load it on a flatbed the night after the third phone call from someone who had found out he still owns it!

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
Until I see some proof other than a magazine article... I'm sayin' never.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

The rubber mat subject is quite well known, they were all black and GM simply sprayed the top with whatever color they needed. A little lacquer thinner and a scrub brush will remove it nicely, then just spray some black lacquer on the top to keep it nice! The mat in my deuce was from a blue interior car - heck, we figured this out 10+ years ago when the price of black mats starting going up! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr. Chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
Who would've ever thought the lowly Nova would generate such conversation....makes this Nova boy proud http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

wilma

Tom, right there with ya, being a Nova owner myself I have always thought the Nova was the "Ba$tard Stepchild" of the Chevy Family!!!!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

Rich

[olredalert]

-----Jed,,,They never made even one "all aluminum" 454 Corvette. Are you referring to 1969 ZL1 427 Corvettes. We had a fairly extensive discussion about the production numbers of those rare Vettes just lately......Bill S

[Jonesy]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is something to stir up the pot. Don't know if it's 100% true but I have heard two local counts that there is one Blue all aluminum 454 Corvette still out there. Even though American Muscle Car did a show on only two. I was told that GM found the car because it's still with the original owner. I was told this by two guys who have seen the car personally. One helped him load it on a flatbed the night after the third phone call from someone who had found out he still owns it!

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/images/smilies/smiley_hijack.gif

[Nova Jed]

Sorry didn't intend to Hijack. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif Let me explain. I know there was a show an American Muscle that had two rare Corvettes that they did a story on and GM said they made only two. My point is that if GM honestly did make one more, and no one knows about it, would that make it a fake until they had the proof? Just kind of goes along with the Non SS 396 deal. Unless they had the docs. to back it up, everyone would think it's a fake.

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this is a little off, but why does it seem that there is more knowledge on this site and no one seems to be backed by a resto company or TV show? Or could I be wrong? How many of you gurus on here are backed by a company or TV show?

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Being backed by a resto company or TV show does not qualify anyone as a go-to expert. In the end, it's a lot about PR and scratching each others' backs.

2) I realize you weren't necessarily implying this, but it's sites like this that have the most knowledge. And as far as the sites I visit, this is among the most consistent with accurate knowlege.

[Tommy]

My 68 had part of the original blue rubber mat left in it when I got it. Black car with blue guts http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif .. I read the article on the white non SS BB car today.. I ain't buying it. I think these things would have started showing up a long time ago and some record would exist or at least a mention in the AMA specs.... I would expect to start seeing this type car show up all over the place since one has now been published... Lots of nice words in the article will surely send some old Novas into shops over the winter to get this same treatment and show up in the next year or two hoping for the mega bucks....

Tommy http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[Stefano]

The Fathom Blue/Blue Interior 8,600 mile '70 SS L78 we have has a Blue Rubber Mat.

[Nova Jed]

I was basically implying what you had said in your sencond post. I pretty much knew that no one was backed by a TV show or Resto Company. It was kind of a retorical question. No one on here is saying buy a product because I say so and I say so because I made it. There are a lot of opinions on products and each individual on here has the right to choose. I am just amazed at the knowlege that passes through this site. And everyone tends to put in their input and allow for scrutiany. I think it's great. I have just joined this site, not too long ago, thanks to Marlin. Took me awhile, but I never realized that their are so many people out there that want to share what they have learned about these muscle cars. No one person is asking for a thing but to see if other people have experienced the same or different. Just truly a great site in today's me type world! As far as the story I heard, it might just be that, a story. There are more people on here, from around the world, to verify that it was in fact just a story. I just put it up there to see what kind of responses I would get. Like I said, "Here is one to stir up the pot". No mal intent. Plus it's hard to convey attitude or personality on here as well. Hence the instant gremlins!

[Mr70]

So Marlins the one we can all thank.

teasin ya Jed.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Welcome

[Nova Jed]

Ha ha! Yes, Mr. Spotts is the one to thank! LOL Like I needed to add to this disease? Just made it ten times worse. Like drinking turpentine and peeing on a fire.

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
Like drinking turpentine and peeing on a fire.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif So you DO know Marlin! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nova Jed]

I first met him up at the all GM show in 2001 when I was 21. Must have talked his ear off about his Deuce as I had just accquired a 70 6 banger from York. My second Nova by the way. I had sold my first car, a 71 Nova, the same day I bought my, now Motion clone. Seen him at Maple Grove, beating the crap out of his Deuce, a couple years later. He asked me about my clone. He remembered me from Carlisle and asked if I had joined the site and I had said not yet. The third time was at a local show, last year, and he asked me again if I had joined the site. I had not. One night, I was bored and tried to get ahold of him and he hadn't returned my call. Shame on you! LOL So I got on the site and decided to join. To date I own 6 antiques and two foreign (I'm not gonna metion the manufacturer of the car). They aren't American. I Love the Nova's and that's why I just accquired my Fourth. A 69. I was already starting a fire, he just gave me more fuel for it! Curse this disease! And kill the curiosity, not the cat.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

BTW, I ran a best of 14.508 at 95.54mph at 10:18pm on 8/26/03 - not exactly lighting the world on fire, but was a lotta fun. Also, I never beat on my Deuce, it's simply gets a little exercise now and then. Anyone who's driven a Deuce knows that they will load the plugs pretty quickly unless you keep the rpm's up - anyone seen Frankie's plugs the other year? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Anyway, can't have too many NovaNutz on this site, welcome Jed!

[69hurstSC]

did Paul Zazzarine write the article on the non SS 396/375 car? he usually does a descent job at covering his bases on research (IMO).

[JRSully]

He did do the article. Deluxe interior never came with rubber mat etc. and the door panels in the pics/article are repos. As surmised, this car is more than likely a clone or had the cosmetic SS stuff removed during resto. Maybe Zazarine reads this site and would like to chime in.?

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I ran a best of 14.508 at 95.54mph at 10:18pm on 8/26/03

[/ QUOTE ]

But around 11 am on 07/27/07 that ET dropped somewhat. No fouled plugs that day! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I offered him a set of new plugs, with free installation (you know Frankie was short on tools http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). But, he kept running it until they cleared up, then JJ ran a 13.87 in the darn thing - with Frankie following with a 13.99. What a lovable punk! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ORIGLS6]

Yeah, but Im talking about the 'out-of-the-trailer' run from a Gobi Beige car this year! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but Im talking about the 'out-of-the-trailer' run from a Gobi Beige car this year! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that. That was a hell of a run. What were the numbers again? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[ORIGLS6]

13.5? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe Zazarine reads this site...

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO If he doesn't, he should start...as should any other writers doing magazine stories on Chevy musclecars and supercars.

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
13.5? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh... That was it huh? Maybe I was watching someone else. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

J/K, it was a great run M. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

This year was a different story, it was indeed a 13.5 at 104+mph - not bad on E70 whitewalls http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif I was ready to put it away after that, wanting to quit while I was ahead!

[Nova Jed]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I ran a best of 14.508 at 95.54mph at 10:18pm on 8/26/03 - not exactly lighting the world on fire, but was a lotta fun. Also, I never beat on my Deuce, it's simply gets a little exercise now and then. Anyone who's driven a Deuce knows that they will load the plugs pretty quickly unless you keep the rpm's up - anyone seen Frankie's plugs the other year? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


[/ QUOTE ]That night/evening was pretty bad for me. I couldn't launch the car at 2gs without it bogging! I think my best was a 14.7 at 98! Took it out a year later and walked it out of the hole(in the right lane) and turned a 13.8 at 105! Had to go home as I had no helmet. That's on an M20 with an open 3.08 rear. Not too shabby if I do say so myself. Sucks to be stuck in traffic for 3 hrs though! Found that out the day I came home from Jersey when the Eagles and the Phillies had a game the same day. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Ok, M. so you were giving her some breathing room. I gotcha!

[71-LS6]

[ QUOTE ]
My father in law, ordered one brand new to use as a "tow vehicle" for his drag car. He's told me the story 5-6 times now. I'll see if I can get a picture of it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Okay, I finally tracked down the old man on Christmas eve, he's got some pictures of the car, but says it will take weeks to find them. Here's what he remembers;

He wanted a cheap powerful dual purpose car to flat tow his dragster and to run errands in. He had some incidental connections with a couple of big time chevy racers, so he knew what he wanted, a 375 hp 396 ci Nova.

I think he said his car came from Van Chevrolet in KC?

It DID have the louvers in the hood, but he wasn't sure if it had SS badging, so I'm guessing it was probably an SS and he just didn't remember the emblems.

The car was a bench seat 4spd.

The only other thing that seemed strange to me (I know nothing about Novas) was that the car was delivered with an open rear end. A week after he got it, he lost a street race to his buddy's 440 powered GTX. He said he was just a little pissed about that, because he knew his car weighed less. He went back to where they started the race, and noticed that one of his rear wheels had been spinning the whole way.
He put a posi unit in the car ASAP and according to him, he handed that GTX it's ass.

When I find the picture I'll get it posted.

Merry Christmas to all

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Posi rear was an option on the Novas.